The UK votes to leave the European Union

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Lordzap said:
So how likely is it now that Scotland votes to leave? If they do leave how bad do you guys think that would that be for the rest of the UK?
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If they get the chance to vote again, I'd say very high. It would be another blow for England, that's for sure.
 
PackAPunchedMick said:
Get a fucking grip man, not a single job has been lost from this vote. And we're a country with a land border with fucking no-one. "less safe", please.

The remain campaigners really did a number on some people jesus.
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There are two high profile ones I can name right now, the Prime Minister of the UK David Cameron and UK's European Commissioner Lord Hill.
 
ProfessorMoran said:
You understand this is just a vote, right? Nothing has really happened yet other than reactionary sell-offs in the market, things will need to be worked out, businesses don't just "pack up and leave", they'll evaluate the cost of doing business and obviously it's necessary for UK to make some favorable changes to retain them, the major players in the financial sector might pressure both sides to maintain the status quo simply to avoid the cost of relocating, at the end of the day no corporation is a cheerleader of the EU for the sake of the EU, they don't really care whether the EU exists or not, it's the perks they care about and ultimately all those things will need to be negotiated and will be negotiated.
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Businesses have made their calculations months ago , that's why they all campaigned for "remain" .. now that "leave " won , what do you think will happen ?
 
ProfessorMoran said:
Do you think EU countries want to just sever ties with UK or give UK the shaft just because they're not longer part of the EU? The cost of relocating the financial sector in the UK would be tremendous and there will be way too much pressure for both sides to maintain the status quo just to make corporations happy as far as the financial sector is concerned.

They'll work something out that will keep the players happy, EU bureaucrats aren't necessarily men of principals, everybody will eventually bend and we'll look back at this and wonder what the big deal is.
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Companies will not want to be in limbo and will want to have clarity that they can trade with money from the EU.
Cost will be paid by the companies relocating not by governments. Maybe some governments will issue some tax breaks.
There is no interest for the EU to keep the companies in UK they are benefiting if the companies move to mainland Europe.
Sorry I see zero reason why EU wants the financial sector to stay in UK.
 
PackAPunchedMick said:
Good god, this is World War 3 levels of scaremongering.
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Utter horseshit. It's not scaremongering to say that what happens in Ireland now is of concern. Nobody is saying it's a return to the Troubles, but it's of concern/serious interest and to wave it away as if history doesn't move is utterly stupid. Particularly at a time where there are some signs some form of the paramilitant IRA is still very much active.
 
Carl2291 said:
This is a real thing for millions of people, particularly in Yorkshire too. Like I said a couple of days ago, when you actually talk to real people and get a grasp of what problems they have, you begin to understand that under the current regime (Yes that includes our own government) there's nothing positive in the future.

People have nothing, no future prospects, working 8 hours a day for very little. Wages aren't rising while the cost of living is skyrocketing. Houses are too expensive, schools are full, the NHS is struggling. They see an option for something new (with expectations of a brighter future) and you can bet they'll take that option. If you can kick the government in the bollocks while you do it, it's a bonus.

That's why large chunks of the poorest communities have voted to leave. They've been abandoned by a government that's focussed primarily on London over the last 20-30 years. It's as much a protest vote as it is an "immigration" vote, a "sovereignty" vote or whatever else.
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Seeing a bunch of multi-millionaire celebrities telling them to remain probably didn't help either. Not like they were around when the poorest and unemployed were made to pay council tax and bedroom tax, not to mention the benefit sanctions and the cuts to disability.
 
Lordzap said:
So how likely is it now that Scotland votes to leave? If they do leave how bad do you guys think that would that be for the rest of the UK?
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Maybe a plus for England? Less "immigrants" coming in with their "foreign accents" and "foreign currency*".

Keep England fully English. The English motherland.

*Our Scots pound notes are frowned upon :p
 
PackAPunchedMick said:
Get a fucking grip man, not a single job has been lost from this vote. And we're a country with a land border with fucking no-one. "less safe", please.

The remain campaigners really did a number on some people jesus.
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You're right. Absolutely everything is the same or better.

Given that my country has voted to leave the EU, I'd really like to see some reasonable commentary from the people who have decided on this course to make me feel that we haven't just made the mother of all mistakes. Instead I get to see wall to wall comments from:

Flat out racists and xenophobes
Idiots who are wondering what they hell they've voted for after the fact
Politicians like Farage changing their pitch two seconds after the victory was confirmed
Fools like you who think that nothing bad will or has happened despite all reality

Wake up. You've taken an enormous risk with millions of people's lives, you have no idea what you've voted for or who you've voted for, you've destroyed a union of nations that has essentially existed for 400 years and officially for over 300 years. God only knows what is going to happen to Northern Ireland, and areas like Gibraltar. The constant "oh, stop exaggerating, everything's fine" just shows everyone how oblivious you, and other Leave voters are. I'm starting to relish how shocked the people who voted for this will be when we end up being ruled by a government significantly more right wing and significantly less regulated than the one we've got rigt now. The sodding naivety of it all.
 
MLH said:
Ugh this one makes me sick to watch. The utter stupidity of these people. They talk about all the things they don't like; austerity, cuts to the NHS, welfare cheats, etc.
All of which are a result of ineffectual governance at Westminster, nothing to do with the EU.
One woman seems to think that if we voted remain the NHS would be over. The fool's just handed the NHS to the Tories on a silver platter. I'm sure the daily mail and sun will find a new target for these people to blame their problems on; maybe it'll be the unions, or something else that could be a force for good in this world but easily demonised by those that want to hide their agenda.
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They right-wing will focus on non-EU migrants from now on. The Romanians, Polish etc have been dealt with but there are still plenty of brown people from outside the EU that they can demonise.
 
Arksy said:
Those elections are exactly why Merkel will bend over to the UK. She is facing enormous internal pressure to make a deal with the UK so it can be business as usual for Germany's massive export market to the UK.
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So you are saying that the election in Germany is the reason she will do something that would severely harm the reputation of her party and SPD and could easily cause her to lose the chancellorship and/or the election?
Using your logic, can we expect the British government to crawl to EU and make concessions, so it is business as usual for their extremely EU-centric economy?

Arksy said:
EDIT: Oops missed your edit. That's ok, the deal only needs a qualified majority to pass.
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You don't understand. Those parties got 2/3rd of the seats in 2013, they're barely above 50% right now. There is an enormous pressure on CDU from the right wing. Making concessions to UK is not going to help them gain votes, not from EU supporters and not from nationalists.
 
RedSparrows said:
Yes, as has been discussed time and again in here by now.

It's one of the reasons so many of us are bitter and saddened, because these people aren't going to get better lives out of this.
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Maybe, maybe not.
But they definitely weren't going to get better lives by waiting for the leftie middle classes to put down their cappuccinos, stop being sneering elitists and pay attention. They clearly weren't going to get it from the politicians or from the City of London.
So why should they spare the feelings of any of those groups when they've suffered decades of neglect at their hands?
 
Carl2291 said:
I don't think that's very fair. It's yet to be decided.

We have literally no idea where this country will be in 2, 5, 10, 15 plus years time.
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Exactly, for a lot these people things can't get much worse and if they do thats to them a risk worth taking for the sake of future generations.
 
axisofweevils said:
Japanese firms now unsure. http://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20160625/p2g/00m/0bu/013000c
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Yas, grow that Düsseldorf enclave.

Also: Banks begin moving some operations out of Britain - FT.com

Banks have already begun to take action to shift operations out of the UK, with the governor of France’s central bank warning on Saturday that Britain’s financial services were at risk of losing their right to operate across the EU.

Investment banks have reacted immediately to Britain’s referendum result, with some of the City’s largest institutions approaching regulators to secure licences and lining up executives to relocate.

The big US banks — JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley — have large operations employing tens of thousands of people in the UK. They are now preparing to shift some of this work to cities such as Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt.

The danger to the UK’s financial services sector was highlighted in comments on Saturday morning from France’s central bank governor, who warned that banks would lose “passporting” rights to operate in the EU if Britain leaves the single market.
François Villeroy de Galhau said on Saturday it was “paradoxical” to allow the City of London to operate by the EU’s rules and not be a member of the European Economic Area in the manner of Norway.

The governor of the Banque de France and ECB governing council member told French radio: “There is a precedent, it is the Norwegian model of European Economic Area, that would allow Britain to keep access to the single market but by committing to implement all EU rules.”

...
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Carl2291 said:
This is a real thing for millions of people, particularly in Yorkshire too. Like I said a couple of days ago, when you actually talk to real people and get a grasp of what problems they have, you begin to understand that under the current regime (Yes that includes our own government) there's nothing positive in the future.

People have nothing, no future prospects, working 8 hours a day for very little. Wages aren't rising while the cost of living is skyrocketing. Houses are too expensive, schools are full, the NHS is struggling. They see an option for something new (with expectations of a brighter future) and you can bet they'll take that option. If you can kick the government in the bollocks while you do it, it's a bonus.

That's why large chunks of the poorest communities have voted to leave. They've been abandoned by a government that's focussed primarily on London over the last 20-30 years. It's as much a protest vote as it is an "immigration" vote, a "sovereignty" vote or whatever else.
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The problem is, it's not the EU that's causing it.

I mean there's a reason most of Yorkshire is Labour, and it's because Conservatives never do anything for us.

People are voting to Leave the EU as some kind of protest vote against the Government but it's not suddenly going to make any of the places in Yorkshire better. We still have a Tory government who don't care about us.

I think that's what pisses me off the most about this campaign. For most people, it was never about the EU membership. The EU was used as a scapegoat by the press for years and years for issues caused by our own government. The whole immigrants stealing all our jobs is just an excuse, the real issue is there's just not enough jobs to go around full stop. The only jobs the immigrants are taking are either low paying jobs which no one wants to do, or alternatively their jobs which require a given skill that are in low amount here.
 
>-Baron-Spamedi-< said:
Maybe, maybe not.
But they definitely weren't going to get better lives by waiting for the leftie middle classes to put down their cappuccinos, stop being sneering elitists and pay attention. They clearly weren't going to get it from the politicians or from the City of London.
So why should they spare the feelings of any of those groups when they've suffered decades of neglect at their hands?
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They shouldn't, arguably. Did I say they should? They did what they felt was right. It's a shame they didn't have a better option open to them. Do you not agree? It's sad. It's not something to celebrate, really.

What are they going to do if/when things really don't change/improve. Continue to blame the EU?

But yeah, those lefty middle classes are all the same, aren't they?

"Generalisations are bad, generalise THIS!"
 
ProfessorMoran said:
You understand this is just a vote, right? Nothing has really happened yet other than reactionary sell-offs in the market, things will need to be worked out, businesses don't just "pack up and leave", they'll evaluate the cost of doing business and obviously it's necessary for UK to make some favorable changes to retain them, the major players in the financial sector might pressure both sides to maintain the status quo simply to avoid the cost of relocating, at the end of the day no corporation is a cheerleader of the EU for the sake of the EU, they don't really care whether the EU exists or not, it's the perks they care about and ultimately all those things will need to be negotiated and will be negotiated.
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Er.. lord hill resigned from his post. Do you not get what this means? It was expected but you know... ;/

Edit: don't take it from me. how about FT:

"Lord Hill, the Briton installed after lobbying as European Commissioner for financial services, looks set to lose his job. His project for capital markets union would be completed by a continental substitute. The City, where three-quarters of Europe's securities business is transacted at present, would no longer be part of it.


It would be wrong to suggest that all the consequences of the Brexit vote are bad for UK businesses. Private equity groups, which have made decent progress in whittling down portfolios since 2012, may find opportunities to buy as asset prices drop. Companies with hefty dollar sales will see profits rise, when they are reported in sterling.."


----

I repeat. We voluntarily gave up our seat at the top table.
 
Well, as a random addition to this thread, Coldplay in Amsterdam (I was working there) at least said they loved Europe several times. Thanks Coldplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roA60XMPz0c Around 0:20.

ProfessorMoran said:
The financial sector was in UK before the UK was ever part of the EU.

EVERYTHING can be negotiated, that's the way governments and bureaucrats work.
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I am afraid that would involve a lot of negatiations with the EU, in which the UK soon has no voting power anymore since they are not a part of it. Why would the EU simply give in to the UK and change whatever is needed for the UK to remain as it is?

As the financial sector doesn't exactly like uncertainty to this extent (who knows how this goes down in the coming year or years? It is unprecedented), part of the banks could move parts of their operations swiftly to a country that offers them a lot more clarity in the coming times. To them it is simply a matter of what they think would do the least amount of damage.
 
8bit said:
Whatever the aftermath, it really has brought out the best in some people.

ClzR3azWYAASWOy.jpg


(Romford, today)
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LMAO, did people think "Leave" was a command for other people to get out, and not for the UK to "leave" the union?
 
ProfessorMoran said:
You understand this is just a vote, right? Nothing has really happened yet other than reactionary sell-offs in the market, things will need to be worked out, businesses don't just "pack up and leave", they'll evaluate the cost of doing business and obviously it's necessary for UK to make some favorable changes to retain them, the major players in the financial sector might pressure both sides to maintain the status quo simply to avoid the cost of relocating, at the end of the day no corporation is a cheerleader of the EU for the sake of the EU, they don't really care whether the EU exists or not, it's the perks they care about and ultimately all those things will need to be negotiated and will be negotiated.
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They do care about money though and EU just has more money than UK. UK could stay a financial center because they were part of the EU. Now the companies will loose theor licenses and may pay tarrifs or taxes on their services they deliver to clients outside of the UK
 
Carl2291 said:
People have nothing, no future prospects, working 8 hours a day for very little. Wages aren't rising while the cost of living is skyrocketing. Houses are too expensive, schools are full, the NHS is struggling. They see an option for something new (with expectations of a brighter future) and you can bet they'll take that option. If you can kick the government in the bollocks while you do it, it's a bonus.
Click to expand...

I get that. The EU wasn't the problem, though, it was the Tories. By voting Leave they've put power into the worst excesses of that very same government. To use your analogy, they've kicked themselves in the bollocks.

Carl2291 said:
That's why large chunks of the poorest communities have voted to leave. They've been abandoned by a government that's focussed primarily on London over the last 20-30 years. It's as much a protest vote as it is an "immigration" vote, a "sovereignty" vote or whatever else.
Click to expand...

This wasn't the time for a protest vote against the Tories.
 
>-Baron-Spamedi-< said:
Maybe, maybe not.
But they definitely weren't going to get better lives by waiting for the leftie middle classes to put down their cappuccinos, stop being sneering elitists and pay attention. They clearly weren't going to get it from the politicians or from the City of London.
So why should they spare the feelings of any of those groups when they've suffered decades of neglect at their hands?
Click to expand...

The sad thing seems to be that they have simply been played by a competing group of sneering elitists.
 
Carl2291 said:
This is a real thing for millions of people, particularly in Yorkshire too. Like I said a couple of days ago, when you actually talk to real people and get a grasp of what problems they have, you begin to understand that under the current regime (Yes that includes our own government) there's nothing positive in the future.

People have nothing, no future prospects, working 8 hours a day for very little. Wages aren't rising while the cost of living is skyrocketing. Houses are too expensive, schools are full, the NHS is struggling. They see an option for something new (with expectations of a brighter future) and you can bet they'll take that option. If you can kick the government in the bollocks while you do it, it's a bonus.

That's why large chunks of the poorest communities have voted to leave. They've been abandoned by a government that's focussed primarily on London over the last 20-30 years. It's as much a protest vote as it is an "immigration" vote, a "sovereignty" vote or whatever else.
Click to expand...

The poorest are the youngest and oldest after retirement. Considering how much younger voters were in favor of staying I strongly believe the tenuous situation with NHS is what's driving many older voters to protect themselves.

This makes Farange's announcement he has to take back fully all of his promises to do something to improve NHS if UK leaves all the more insidious. Now a bunch of people with real financial and health issues got their agenda and hopes hijacked by a bunch of neanderthal racists in decent suits.
 
axisofweevils said:
Japanese firms now unsure. http://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20160625/p2g/00m/0bu/013000c
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This is what these frankly posh and financially secure idiots who think they can wait months (some are talking up to 5 fucking years!) Are going to be surprised about. Negotiations need to start now to give an idea of what is going to happen next - businesses will only hold off on leaving if it's short but they are not going to wait forever.

Companies will launch new products; expand workforces; make decisions. They will move operations to the mainland more and more as time passes.

The negotiation being completed will be the only way to stop the rot. Earlier the better.
 
PackAPunchedMick said:
So everything theyve built from the Good Friday agreement will crumble thanks to the exit from the EU?
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Jesus fucking Christ, the Good Friday Agreement is contingent on both sides being in the EU. How about you read about these subjects before you weigh in on them?

And if you don't think an EU-UK border springing up between Northern Ireland and the Republic will cause both civil and financial unrest you have no idea what you're on about.
 
Xando said:
No wonder Frankfurt is secretly celebrating brexit. State bonds are already showing that investors think germany is the biggest safe haven in europe. Probably going to see a lot of international companies prefering the stability of germany instead of the UK
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It should also be very beneficial to the German start-up scene.
 
Audioboxer said:
It's tongue in cheek about how it's always a white beer belly bald skinhead.

Not as if it's a professional well dressed white female accountant we see with these sorts of signs.
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Ahh okay ;)

Xando said:
No wonder Frankfurt is secretly celebrating brexit. State bonds are already showing that investors think germany is the biggest safe haven in europe. Probably going to see a lot of international companies prefering the stability of germany instead of the UK
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Germany is ready for global take over
 
Maztorre said:
Jesus fucking Christ, the Good Friday Agreement is contingent on both sides being in the EU. How about you read about these subjects before you weigh in on them?

And if you don't think an EU-UK border springing up between Northern Ireland and the Republic will cause both civil and financial unrest you have no idea what you're on about.
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Stop scaremongering, man!!!!111
 
from BBC live feed

eremy Corbyn is not to blame for the Remain campaign losing the EU referendum, his shadow chancellor John McDonnell claims.

He says the Labour leader "did his job" and "worked himself into the ground doing meetings after meetings".

Now trying to blame him or anyone else for what is the democratic decision of our country is wrong. We have just got to say people have made their minds up, they've made a decision, respect it."
Mr McDonnell dismissed a motion of no confidence, tabled by Labour grandee Margaret Hodge, as "a complete distraction".

"I think people out there in the real world, our constituents, just want us to get on with the job of getting the best deal possible for them," he said.

Mr McDonnell says Labour has put forward proposals to George Osborne about how to stabilise the situation after yesterday's vote to leave the EU.

He said the priority was to "make sure that any interventions by the Bank of England stabilise Britain's economic position in the world".

He added that there should be a "structure of negotiations with Europe now where we get the best relationship we can...that's got to involve full accountability to parliament at every stage".
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Rodelero said:
You're right. Absolutely everything is the same or better.

Given that my country has voted to leave the EU, I'd really like to see some reasonable commentary from the people who have decided on this course to make me feel that we haven't just made the mother of all mistakes. Instead I get to see wall to wall comments from:

Flat out racists and xenophobes
Idiots who are wondering what they hell they've voted for after the fact
Politicians like Farage changing their pitch two seconds after the victory was confirmed
Fools like you who think that nothing bad will or has happened despite all reality

Wake up. You've taken an enormous risk with millions of people's lives, you have no idea what you've voted for or who you've voted for, you've destroyed a union of nations that has essentially existed for 400 years and officially for over 300 years. God only knows what is going to happen to Northern Ireland, and areas like Gibraltar. The constant "oh, stop exaggerating, everything's fine" just shows everyone how oblivious you, and other Leave voters are. I'm starting to relish how shocked the people who voted for this will be when we end up being ruled by a government significantly more right wing and significantly less regulated than the one we've got rigt now. The sodding naivety of it all.
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You're getting all emotional before anything has even happened.
How the fuck did you make it through the miners strike?
 
Kathian said:
This is what these frankly posh and financially secure idiots who think they can wait months (some are talking up to 5 fucking years!) Are going to be surprised about. Negotiations need to start now to give an idea of what is going to happen next - businesses will only hold off on leaving if it's short but they are not going to wait forever.

Companies will launch new products; expand workforces; make decisions. They will move operations to the mainland more and more as time passes.

The negotiation being completed will be the only way to stop the rot. Earlier the better.
Click to expand...

yup, businesses don't like instability,but negotiations can't start if Article 50 hasn't invoked?
 
ProfessorMoran said:
You understand this is just a vote, right? Nothing has really happened yet other than reactionary sell-offs in the market, things will need to be worked out, businesses don't just "pack up and leave", they'll evaluate the cost of doing business and obviously it's necessary for UK to make some favorable changes to retain them, the major players in the financial sector might pressure both sides to maintain the status quo simply to avoid the cost of relocating, at the end of the day no corporation is a cheerleader of the EU for the sake of the EU, they don't really care whether the EU exists or not, it's the perks they care about and ultimately all those things will need to be negotiated and will be negotiated.
Click to expand...

Even if the major financial stakeholders remain in London, which I think they will simply because it's not that easy to just pack up and leave a financial mecca like London, I think they will be operating at a far smaller capacity than they are now. London's days as the main financial hub of Europe are probably numbered.

There's no advantage for the EU to allow free access to EU markets for institutions operating out of London rather than institutions operating out of an EU member state.
 
SporeCrawler said:
Companies will not want to be in limbo and will want to have clarity that they can trade with money from the EU.
Cost will be paid by the companies relocating not by governments. Maybe some governments will issue some tax breaks.
There is no interest for the EU to keep the companies in UK they are benefiting if the companies move to mainland Europe.
Sorry I see zero reason why EU wants the financial sector to stay in UK.
Click to expand...

It's not a zero-sum game, the EU does not benefit from UK being in a worse recession or the financial sector having to spend a ton of money to relocate, it's in the EU's best interest to ensure that economically the region is stable. Bureaucrats will compromise, because that's what they always do, and the EU is full of nothing but bureaucrats.
 
Screaming Meat said:
I get that. The EU wasn't the problem, though, it was the Tories. By voting Leave they've put power into the worst excesses of that very same government. To use your analogy, they've kicked themselves in the bollocks.

This wasn't the time for a protest vote against the Tories.
Click to expand...

It's not a vote specifically against the Tories, it's a vote against the political establishment and continued ignorance of real, working peoples issues.

People want change. They were never going to get that with a remain vote.

Fantastic to hear the Northern Irish belting out the anthem at the Euro's btw.
 
The UK deserves such a shit deal that it makes no-one want to leave. Not even close to Norway's, and no returning. Frankly we in the rest of EU is tired of UK and their tactics to hold the union "hostage"
 
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