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[silva1991]

I may be in the minority, but I wish that mainline Final Fantasy would actually try to move away from the (near) photorealistic artstyle since the PS2 era instalments, and go back into making more cartoon-ish, hand-drawn art style like that of FFIX. Or perhaps making the in-game visuals look like painting similar to that of FFT:WoTL's cutscene or Valkyria Chronicles.



I mean, for the love of good, do something new. This also applies to Tales series as well. The bland generic 3D anime style is tiring. Also I want new character designer to take charge. Enough of Tetsuya Nomura already.

I don't know if we are in the minority, but I agree

I was thinking about that when I saw the first gameplay videos of the new Zelda. I would be very excited for a new FF game with Breath of The wild visua style, but turn based combat system.

Hell even Ni No Kuni visual style will be more interesting than the realistic visuals.

 

[Aters]

OK so here is an idea: what if FFXVI looks like Breath of the Wild? It's open world, it's beautiful, it's stylish, and it's technically easier to accomplish compared to the photorealism approach. Also it has a wide appeal around the world unlike most other stylish Japanese titles.

edit: beaten

Anyway, I think as long as FFXV is a good game, people would accept whatever it is for FFXVI just like they did with previous FF games.

edit 2:
One thing I have to agree with Crossing Eden is that people automatically assume a more realistic approach means less thought put into the design, which is absolutely wrong. For example the monster design in FFXV is truly amazing and you can really tell the effort they make to capture Amano's vision. Modern AAA titles deserve more credit for their art design on GAF.

 

[Zolo]

I don't know if we are in the minority, but I agree

I was thinking about that when I saw the first gameplay videos of the new Zelda. I would be very excited for a new FF game with Breath of The wild visua style, but turn based combat system.

Hell even Ni No Kuni visual style will be more interesting than the realistic visuals.

Final Fantasy's always had plenty of spinoffs. Maybe that kind of style there to make them more distinct?

 

[Durante]

To me, the most aesthetically pleasing thing S-E made in the past 5 years was Agni's Philosophy, so I wish they'd go with that. Neither fully stylized nor fully realistic.

 

[Kyne]

When I play Final Fantasy I want to feel like I'm in an actual world filled with magic and the like.

There are few entries that have been able to encapsulate that feeling..

FFIX is definitely one of them. Like something out of a child's storybook.

And then you look at the words spoken from each character and all of the sudden your adult self takes a step back and realizes how earnest the tone is.

 

[Crossing Eden]

When I play Final Fantasy I want to feel like I'm in an actual world filled with magic and the like.

There are few entries that have been able to encapsulate that feeling..

FFIX is definitely one of them. Like something out of a child's storybook.

And then you look at the words spoken from each character and all of the sudden your adult self takes a step back and realizes how earnest the tone is.

FFXV has people teleporting around with swords that they summon out of thin air...that's not even counting FF basically being high fantasy. :|

 

[silva1991]

Final Fantasy's always had plenty of spinoffs. Maybe that kind of style there to make them more distinct?

I want the mainline games to look like those and not spin offs that most don't care about...

 

[raven777]

I like what they're going in for VII Remake:

yea I really like what I have seen of FF7R so far. I think it's one of the best 3D Cloud I have seen post original game. Really excited to see the rest of the cast.


I also like the way FFXV looks in the game. The character design might be a bit over the top but you can really tell that Nomura feel. I really prefer the game's look, even if it looks like dolls, than Kingsglave for example.
The last thing I want to see from Final Fantasy character is that they look like a real human.

 

[YAWN]

Just get the best designer in the industry on it, Akihiko Yoshida. Job's a good one.

 

[Mifec]

I think it's one of the best 3D Cloud I have seen post original game.

Maybe once they add actual fat to his arms, it's creeping me out.

 

[Philippo]

I'll be honest i never had a problem with any of the artstyles in FF, i like all of them, so i'm confident i'll appreciate whatever they'll come up for the next title.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Yoshida draws the best-looking female characters. Dem hips and legs.

 

[raven777]

Yoshida draws the best-looking female characters. Dem hips and legs.

personally my favorite female design would be Nomura's face + Yoshida's body.

 

[InsaneTiger]

sounds unpleasant.

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that.

 

[djtiesto]

Wasn't much of a fan of FFXV's character designs because the black outfits don't stand out too much, and I'm not a big fan of overly realistic, it really limits some of the crazy-ass stuff you can do in game. Like, someone saying how FF6's mishmash of characters and events would be ridiculous if it was going for a more grounded setting... but there is enough 'realistic' fantasy out there, I want my crazy stuff like octopi dropping weights on opera singers from the rafters, dressing up as a woman to infiltrate a brothel, floating military academies, etc. If we just get Lord of the Rings/Game of Thrones "realistic fantasy" because that's what westerners like, *snore*

 

[AuthenticM]

I like what they're going in for VII Remake:

Indeed. I love everything they have shown of this game.

 

[Koozek]

Wasn't much of a fan of FFXV's character designs because the black outfits don't stand out too much, and I'm not a big fan of overly realistic, it really limits some of the crazy-ass stuff you can do in game. Like, someone saying how FF6's mishmash of characters and events would be ridiculous if it was going for a more grounded setting... but there is enough 'realistic' fantasy out there, I want my crazy stuff like octopi dropping weights on opera singers from the rafters, dressing up as a woman to infiltrate a brothel, floating military academies, etc. If we just get Lord of the Rings/Game of Thrones "realistic fantasy" because that's what westerners like, *snore*

You know, The Witcher 3 at first glance looks like a generic low-fantasy WRPG, but after I played it I must say it was actually the most JRPG-y WRPG. I was surprised about the mix of serious political, quirky, and grotesque plot points. Like, one minute you're trying to help the Baron free his dead child from a curse by properly burying it after it turned into an ugly as hell but somehow adorable Botchling, which a miscarried newborn that wasn't buried properly turns into, preying on pregnant women afterwards, while also trying to find out the secrets about the Baron's family and marriage problems. Then later at some point you have to stage a popular theatre play in the city to lure out a shapeshifting midget, where you have to learn your lines, otherwise it turns into a hilarious mess on stage with awkward moves and dialogs. Then there's a quest where you get ambushed in the bathhouse fighting off dozens of bandits while still wrapped in a towel. Some time later you're chasing a psychopath serial murder who kills prostitutes through the city. Then you sneak yourselves into a masquerade party to help sneaking an acquaintance out of some rich man's property while also having a romantic maze chase with your partner. I could go and on... It's not that far off from a FF when it comes to diverse, absurd plot points, and that's probably why I enjoyed it so much compared to all the other gritty and generic WRPGs I tried. It's dark and brutal, yet still has charm and humor. Actually has a lot of colorful and memorable character designs, too.

 

[sn00zer]

Ironically, I would be happy with the hyper-realism if they put it into 'World of Final Fantasy." I'd love a Monster Tamer game with the FFXIII/FFXV style of behemoths, and it would make the Monster Tamer angle have more of a point.

In the mainline game though, it looks a bit silly since they look like fashion models and it kinda clashes with the other elements of Final Fantasy. I think this is going to hit VII:RE hard.

World of Final Fantasy is a great example of fantastic monster and world design with crappy character design (the Kingdom Hearts characters dont look great next to chibi characters that look worse.....which is weird because I LOVE KH character design)

EDIT: Weirdly enough I think Kingdom Hearts has some of the most cohesive art compared to any Final Fantasy game

 

[Crossing Eden]

You know, The Witcher 3 at first glance looks like a generic low-fantasy WRPG, but after I played it I must say it was actually the most JRPG-y WRPG. I was surprised about the mix of serious political, quirky, and grotesque plot points. Like, one minute you're trying to help the Baron free his dead child from a curse by properly burying it after it turned into an ugly as hell but somehow adorable Botchling, which a miscarried newborn that wasn't buried properly turns into, preying on pregnant women afterwards, while also trying to find out the secrets about the Baron's family and marriage problems. Then later at some point you have to stage a popular theatre play in the city to lure out a shapeshifting midget, where you have to learn your lines, otherwise it turns into a hilarious mess on stage with awkward moves and dialogs. Then there's a quest where you get ambushed in the bathhouse fighting off dozens of bandits while still wrapped in a towel. Some time later you're chasing a psychopath serial murder who kills prostitutes through the city. Then you sneak yourselves into a masquerade party to help sneaking an acquaintance out of some rich man's property while also having a romantic maze chase with your partner. I could go and on... It's not that far off from a FF when it comes to diverse, absurd plot points, and that's probably why I enjoyed it so much compared to all the other gritty and generic WRPGs I tried. It's dark and brutal, yet still has charm and humor. Actually has a lot of colorful and memorable character designs, too.

None of those are traits or plotpoints of a jrpg. Especially not when it comes to the way the characters act in those situations. Most wrpgs have humorous moments.

 

[Spiritwalker]

My favourite post PS1 artstyle is probably FFXII. So vibrant and colourful. <3

 

[Grizzlyjin]

To me, the most aesthetically pleasing thing S-E made in the past 5 years was Agni's Philosophy, so I wish they'd go with that. Neither fully stylized nor fully realistic.

Agree. I was really hoping that was going to be Final Fantasy XV or XVI.

 

[sn00zer]

My favourite post PS1 artstyle is probably FFXII. So vibrant and colourful. <3

Weirdly I would argue thats the least colorful Final Fantasy game.....maybe FF9, but FF12 isnt far behind.

 

[Philippo]

personally my favorite female design would be Nomura's face + Yoshida's body.

 

[tuxfool]

You know, The Witcher 3 at first glance looks like a generic low-fantasy WRPG, but after I played it I must say it was actually the most JRPG-y WRPG. I was surprised about the mix of serious political, quirky, and grotesque plot points. Like, one minute you're trying to help the Baron free his dead child from a curse by properly burying it after it turned into an ugly as hell but somehow adorable Botchling, which a miscarried newborn that wasn't buried properly turns into, preying on pregnant women afterwards, while also trying to find out the secrets about the Baron's family and marriage problems. Then later at some point you have to stage a popular theatre play in the city to lure out a shapeshifting midget, where you have to learn your lines, otherwise it turns into a hilarious mess on stage with awkward moves and dialogs. Then there's a quest where you get ambushed in the bathhouse fighting off dozens of bandits while still wrapped in a towel. Some time later you're chasing a psychopath serial murder who kills prostitutes through the city. Then you sneak yourselves into a masquerade party to help sneaking an acquaintance out of some rich man's property while also having a romantic maze chase with your partner. I could go and on... It's not that far off from a FF when it comes to diverse, absurd plot points, and that's probably why I enjoyed it so much compared to all the other gritty and generic WRPGs I tried. It's dark and brutal, yet still has charm and humor. Actually has a lot of colorful and memorable character designs, too.

You're liable to find similarly diverse subquests in most wrpgs. The one thing that distinguishes the witcher is their quality and their quantity.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You're liable to find similarly diverse subquests in most wrpgs. The one thing that distinguishes the witcher is their quality and their quantity.

I dunno, there's a certain quirkiness to much of TW3 that most other WRPGs seem to lack to me.

Maybe it's just a case of the other games trying "quirk" and failing, but still...

 

[sn00zer]

I'm not a fan of Final Fantasy, but love looooove the monsters and worlds of these games (which is why Im posting in this thread). As a kid I was always frustrated with the series, because I really really didn't (and still don't to some extent) turn based combat, but the gams just had these amazing worlds I wanted to play in. I really think it took all the way up to Bloodborne before I felt like there was an action game that could not only compete with Final Fantasy's monster design but surpass it. Its weird seeing FF fall behind in design after they started to put way too many chips on "fashion needs to be a part of FF" that started with FF8. I feel like just need to ground their designs a little bit or at the very least make those characters make sense in that world, and they could easily get back on top.


Also the Cindy design is the perfect example of FF character designers not grounding their character designs in the world they create.

 

[artsi]

personally my favorite female design would be Nomura's face + Yoshida's body.

Aww yisss

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Aww yisss

Kagari - *screams*

 

[Koozek]

None of those are traits or plotpoints of a jrpg. Especially not when it comes to the way the characters act in those situations. Most wrpgs have humorous moments.

I didn't mean the content itself but the way serious and absurd moments are mixed, like, let's say FFVII, where you have the most ridiculous set of plot points from plotting an eco-terrorist attack on a city's reactor, probably killing many innocents, cross-dressing to sneak into a pimp/slumlord's villa, to being thrown in a desert prison from a flying amusement park above and riding a dolphin to sneak into a military parade etc... This kind of crazy plot is something I've only seen in JRPGs and TW3 comes close, imo. I'm curious which other WRPG you know that are like that, honest question. Those I gave a try always felt soulless and generic, lacking any sort of charm and memorable situations and characters.

 

[Ran rp]

Aww yisss

crying

 

[Koozek]

Aww yisss

LOL.

Reminds me of:

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

LOL.

Reminds me of:

Hajime Nomura.

 

[Ray Down]

Aww yisss

LOL.

Reminds me of:

Both of you have been reading too much of JoJolion.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

It's less she's based on "an actual human being" and more that they seem to have aged her and changed her race to caucasian. Her features look more asian in the first picture

Lived in Japan for two years and a half and I never met an Asian girl or woman who looks slightly like that character.

I think it's fairly obvious that Nomura's art is very heavily influenced by anime and manga. It's not moe blob anime ofc, but definitely influenced by that medium.

I don't think it's a good idea to talk about "anime" as if it's an homogeneous media. I could easily post pictures of shows that aired recently that don't look even slightly similar to each other (I'm not going to do it though, don't want to derail the thread).

 

[raven777]

Aww yisss

LOL.

Reminds me of:

lmao I knew someone would take my post this way...

 

[True Fire]

The problem with cartoony art styles these days is that

1. Everybody likes them, and as a result...

2. Everybody is doing them

Final Fantasy, regardless of whether or not the games have been good, has always stood out from the crowd. Final Fantasy XIII, for example, still looks and sounds better than any Tales since since Vesperia. They can't go and do something like Bravely Default because it's not pushing the standard JRPGs are held to.

If they were to go back to cartoony, it would have to be a truly fantastic game, like Ni No Kuni on crack. Something like the new Zelda game, but even more impressive, because after Final Fantasy XV they can't go back and make a run of the mill JRPG. That's what spinoffs like Type-0, Bravely, and WoFF are reserved for.

 

[Narroo]

World of Final Fantasy is a great example of fantastic monster and world design with crappy character design (the Kingdom Hearts characters dont look great next to chibi characters that look worse.....which is weird because I LOVE KH character design)

EDIT: Weirdly enough I think Kingdom Hearts has some of the most cohesive art compared to any Final Fantasy game

The monsters are kinda Chibi too though. I want the honest to goodness real 25ft tall real thing.

You know, I've noticed that with spin offs Square has really been going for the creepy paper doall chibi look; see Theatrythm. I don't know why though. Is it really that popular? The characters in Theatythm really creep me out with their deal doll eyes - it's part of the reason I didn't buy it! (The main reason was the poor gameplay.)

The main FF games seem to be getting enormous budgets for ludicrous amounts of detail in their visuals, while the fan-pandering spin offs appear to get a shoe-string budget for visuals that are...well whatever Theatrythm, World of Final Fantasy, and so on, are.

If Tatics were done today the characters would probably look like theatrythm. Wouldn't stop them from trying to have a serious plot though!

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

It'd be nice if Final Fantasy XVI had IX's or XIV's art style.

 

[YankeeDonB]

I didn't mean the content itself but the way serious and absurd moments are mixed, like, let's say FFVII, where you have the most ridiculous set of plot points from plotting an eco-terrorist attack on a city's reactor, probably killing many innocents, cross-dressing to sneak into a pimp/slumlord's villa, to being thrown in a desert prison from a flying amusement park above and riding a dolphin to sneak into a military parade etc... This kind of crazy plot is something I've only seen in JRPGs and TW3 comes close, imo. I'm curious which other WRPG you know that are like that, honest question. Those I gave a try always felt soulless and generic, lacking any sort of charm and memorable situations and characters.

Yes, I agree with all this.

Other jRPG-ish elements to W3: dat luscious hair, lots of memorable and uniquely catchy music (not film score like most wrpg), focus on well defined characters following a very linear and generally well paced arc, deep and interesting world that doesn't feel just like Tolkien 10.0.

As a dyed in the wool jRPG fan, it's the only big modern Wrpg that does it for me.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The problem with cartoony art styles these days is that

1. Everybody likes them, and as a result...

2. Everybody is doing them

Final Fantasy, regardless of whether or not the games have been good, has always stood out from the crowd. Final Fantasy XIII, for example, still looks and sounds better than any Tales since since Vesperia. They can't go and do something like Bravely Default because it's not pushing the standard JRPGs are held to.

If they were to go back to cartoony, it would have to be a truly fantastic game, like Ni No Kuni on crack. Something like the new Zelda game, but even more impressive, because after Final Fantasy XV they can't go back and make a run of the mill JRPG. That's what spinoffs like Type-0, Bravely, and WoFF are reserved for.

Yea it can definitely be argued that mainline final fantasies have an obligation to be the cream of the crop when it comes to visuals relative to typical JRPGs.

I didn't mean the content itself but the way serious and absurd moments are mixed, like, let's say FFVII, where you have the most ridiculous set of plot points from plotting an eco-terrorist attack on a city's reactor, probably killing many innocents, cross-dressing to sneak into a pimp/slumlord's villa, to being thrown in a desert prison from a flying amusement park above and riding a dolphin to sneak into a military parade etc... This kind of crazy plot is something I've only seen in JRPGs and TW3 comes close, imo. I'm curious which other WRPG you know that are like that, honest question. Those I gave a try always felt soulless and generic, lacking any sort of charm and memorable situations and characters.

Yea I still have to disagree with this, that's just the way the Witcher's always been. Similar to GoT there's a lot of humor in between all the doom and gloom. Same with Dragon Age. The plot of the witcher isn't really crazy in anyway. That's the difference between it and JRPGs, there's a lot of context for the humorous moments besides "lol so quirky and random" like what you see in a lot of JRPGs. It wouldn't be far out to say that jrpgs have had zero influence on the witcher.

 

[djtiesto]

Unless Witcher 3 is different I don't remember too much humor in the first 2 games (well I guess there's that one part where Geralt hallucinates in the second game and ends up in a forest with phallic mushrooms). Most of the western RPGs I've played seemed much too serious and grave, apart from maybe one or two lighthearted Mass Effect DLCs and of course South Park... I know mainstream western developers have to prove how serious and edgy they are, but a bit of positivity, humor and lightheartedness would go a long way at least for me. The most memorable RPG storylines have that contrast between the lighthearted/goofy and the grave/serious/sad, and this makes the different moments stand out a whole lot more...

 

[Crossing Eden]

Unless Witcher 3 is different I don't remember too much humor in the first 2 games (well I guess there's that one part where Geralt hallucinates in the second game and ends up in a forest with phallic mushrooms). Most of the western RPGs I've played seemed much too serious and grave, apart from maybe one or two lighthearted Mass Effect DLCs and of course South Park... I know mainstream western developers have to prove how serious and edgy they are, but a bit of positivity, humor and lightheartedness would go a long way at least for me. The most memorable RPG storylines have that contrast between the lighthearted/goofy and the grave/serious/sad, and this makes the different moments stand out a whole lot more...

Honestly it seems like you're making a lot of assumptions about games you haven't played and the devs of those games. ME especially is full of comedic moments and W2 is too.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The problem with cartoony art styles these days is that

1. Everybody likes them, and as a result...

2. Everybody is doing them

Final Fantasy, regardless of whether or not the games have been good, has always stood out from the crowd. Final Fantasy XIII, for example, still looks and sounds better than any Tales since since Vesperia. They can't go and do something like Bravely Default because it's not pushing the standard JRPGs are held to.

If they were to go back to cartoony, it would have to be a truly fantastic game, like Ni No Kuni on crack. Something like the new Zelda game, but even more impressive, because after Final Fantasy XV they can't go back and make a run of the mill JRPG. That's what spinoffs like Type-0, Bravely, and WoFF are reserved for.

While it's true that there a number of games that have an animated visual appearance, in the AAA space the visual style that most companies go for is overwhelmingly realistic. AAA games that have an animated visual appearance are very rare, which would only serve to make FF stand out in that field. Another key difference is that most games with an animated visual style don't have a big budget.. A mainline FF will have a bigger budget than most RPG whether they're Japanese or western. Because of that budget they'll be able to emulate a particular visual style better than some smaller budget game ever could. Some have talked about how could it would be if they made a FF that looked like Amano's artwork. Or how amazing would it be to get a FF that looked like Naora's original concept art for FFX

That's all possible now. We're seeing that in a series like Ni no Kuni where Level 5 is able to bring Studio Ghibli's artwork into the 3D world in convincing fashion. I think this is what was being discussed earlier about how advancing technology doesn't just mean that you can make games look more realistic. It also means that it's possible to bring art into 3D in a way that never was possible before. And most studios aren't taking advantage of it in that way.

Look at something like Overwatch, do you think it would've been as popular as it is had they made it look like something out of Battlefield or CoD from a visual standpoint? The animated visual style is a massive plus for it as there are very few AAA FPS games with an animated visual style. It plays such a huge role in why it's not only popular as a game but also popular when it comes to fanart or for cosplayers to make costumes for.

So i'd argue that the only "problem" with cartoony artstyles these days as there aren't enough of them in the AAA space. You can see that when they do come along people react to them very positively. The lack of them is more about publishers convincing themselves that people won't buy them rather than that actually being the case.

 

[LiK]

i would appreciate it if Nomura took a fucking break and let other artists do FF.

 

[Dark_castle]

i would appreciate it if Nomura took a fucking break and let other artists do FF.

I especially hate the fact that for a game like World of Final Fantasy where the art style are non-realistic, they STILL have to go to Nomura to design the characters when they have someone like Toshiyuki Itahana around who had good experience designing neat looking chibi style characters in FFIX and Crystal Chronicles.

 

[LouisaFerre]

I especially hate the fact that for a game like World of Final Fantasy where the art style are non-realistic, they STILL have to go to Nomura to design the characters when they have someone like Toshiyuki Itahana around who had good experience designing neat looking chibi style characters in FFIX and Crystal Chronicles.

I thought Nomura only designed the human forms, and Yasuhisa Izumisawa designed all the chibi forms?

 

[raven777]

I especially hate the fact that for a game like World of Final Fantasy where the art style are non-realistic, they STILL have to go to Nomura to design the characters when they have someone like Toshiyuki Itahana around who had good experience designing neat looking chibi style characters in FFIX and Crystal Chronicles.

Itahana was obviously too busy with Mobius Final Fantasy.

 

[Valkerionseven]

I'm dying for a high fantasy FF after all these futuristic ones and especially the FFVX overload. Bring me to the land of monsters, knights and magic for a while.

 

[Perfo]

I'm dying for a high fantasy FF after all these futuristic ones and especially the FFVX overload. Bring me to the land of monsters, knights and magic for a while.

Heavensward is already out there and is awesome as any main good offline ff.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Heavensward is already out there and is awesome as any main good offline ff.

I don't care how many FFXI and XIV devotees like to claim their titles of choice are "just as good." It's a different product for a different audience. It's not the same thing. They're entirely different in structure and experience from a game designed to be a single player, cinematic, linear experience rather than a treadmill/skinner box to suck time and thus money from each player as long as possible. The business needs the title represents necessarily inform the structure and pacing of the game.

I played FFXIV v2 to the end credits (though I have not yet played Heavensward) and it was probably the best MMORPG I've played, but it is absolutely shackled by its specific genre and the purpose of its creation. You have to do shitty sidequests to get to the shitty sidequests. I'll never forget being made to collect food for a feast so we can talk to some jerk while a Primal attack could happen at any time.

It's 90% anticlimactic filler. Not at all like the lightning fast pacing of the offline games in the first 2/3 of the series. The only exciting and cinematic moments are the pre-rendered intros to each expansion, which are admittedly pretty amazing. Everything else is either mute talking heads bobbing in an idle stance and shifting roboticly into emotes while the text drones on and on about nothing (content!) or else excruciatingly voiced scenes where everybody puts on their best dinner theater English accents and those scenes still have static blocking and camera work and poor writing and pacing. There's nothing there that even out does the presentation of FFX.

FFXIV can be pretty at times, the music is good, and some people truly enjoy the grind, but it's a fundamentally different beast. Playing a remix of the FF3 battle theme occasionally and letting you wear a white mage's robe doesn't mean they've nailed the feel of the older games. I get exactly what the person you were responding to is talking about. The MMOs can never be a replacement for the offline titles.

FF needs to work on its presentation in a lot of facets. Getting in people who are less baroque in their visual design is absolutely part of it. But learning or re-learning what pacing is, in cinematic design, scenario, and game play seems to me to be at least as important as well.