World of Warcraft |OT7| Feel the hatred of 10,000 Murlocs

lol tbc is what started the worst of the worst of WoW, flying mounts are by far the worst thing every added to the game and tbc is what did that.

Arena is a close 2nd, and I really like(d) arena.

Also outlands was a shitty zone that made me not want to play the game.

Vanilla > WOTLK >>> CATA > MOP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TBC > WOD
 
Wrath was a very good expansion and if you disagree you are wrong.

Shitty zones? You're an expert indeed. An expert of nonsense.
 
I think there are a lot of rose colored glasses in regards to TBC. As a competitive raider in vanilla that really pushed raid content, tbc wrecked our collective shit. Not because of difficulty, but because of Karazhan/raid cap, and also Attunments . The switch from 40 to 10 man, then 25 man basically destroyed us from the inside. There was a huge amount of drama and schism that was introduced in that expansion.

Personally I think Wrath was probably the best expansion. Though I think it should have been released as the last expansion for WoW tbh. Not that it should have been the last at the time it was released, but it should have been released in whatever year of our Lord WoW finally stops.
 
Wrath was and probably always will be the height of WoW for me. I mean, sure, I always hope Blizzard will top it, but I'm not convinced they ever will.
 
Attunements are a cool, immersive idea in general but yeah I think TBC went a little overboard with them. They end up segregating the player base into rigid raider/non-raider groups and transitioning from the latter to the former becomes more and more daunting as time goes on. And of course it hamstrung the raiders themselves as they often ended up playing attunement catchup when they had to find new people.

I'm not against them, because I like important, involved questlines in general, but they degree/amount of them in BC was a bit much.
 
Oh yeah, totally forgot that even dungeons had keys. By the end, before it died, the keyring was bulging with all those damn keys.
 
As much as I loved it I don't think I could ever go back to vanilla, but I think I could play WOTLK forever if I could.

I don't see how anybody could not think it was easily the best expansion.

CarbonatedFalcon said:
By the way, aside from bugs, Legion questing zones are probably some of the best they've done so far. Very high quality.
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tbqf so were WoDs, but I was still sick of them by the time I leveled my 2nd character.
 
Tbh it doesn't really matter how well designed a zone is: if you have to spent too much time there with static content, you'll get bored. I loved WoD's zones for the first character or two. By character 5 I just wanted it to be over.

I'm really hoping World Quests add enough of a dynamic element to the zones to make them last longer.
 
Lanrutcon said:
Tbh it doesn't really matter how well designed a zone is: if you have to spent too much time there with static content, you'll get bored. I loved WoD's zones for the first character or two. By character 5 I just wanted it to be over.

I'm really hoping World Quests add enough of a dynamic element to the zones to make them last longer.
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I am pretty sure by character 5 you will get bored of zones no matter what.
 
King Gilga said:
As much as I loved it I don't think I could ever go back to vanilla, but I think I could play WOTLK forever if I could.

I don't see how anybody could not think it was easily the best expansion.
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from all the reasons we listed..?
 
Nere said:
I am pretty sure by character 5 you will get bored of zones no matter what.
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With the quest hub design if tbc/wotlk I never minded leveling 10+ characters through them because I just grabbed a bunch of quests for the same area, did the base combat (which I have always enjoyed and is probably the main reason I still every play WoW) and hand 10 of them in at the same time.

Unlike WoD where it feels like you never get much at once and have all the story bs to go through which is just tedious after the first time. So I end up just flying around and doing treasures/rares which is extremely tedious in it's own right outside of bonus objectives (of which there were not even remotely near enough, needed at least 10/20 times as many.)
 
King Gilga said:
With the quest hub design if tbc/wotlk I never minded leveling 10+ characters through them because I just grabbed a bunch of quests for the same area, did the base combat (which I have always enjoyed and is probably the main reason I still every play WoW) and hand 10 of them in at the same time.

Unlike WoD where it feels like you never get much at once and have all the story bs to go through which is just tedious after the first time. So I end up just flying around and doing treasures/rares which is extremely tedious in it's own right outside of bonus objectives (of which there were not even remotely near enough, needed at least 10/20 times as many.)
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Yeah I understand what you say. At least with WoD they went a bit closer to the quest hubs. Cata and MoP were atrocious in that regard.
 
Anoregon said:
Wrath was a very good expansion and if you disagree you are wrong.

Shitty zones? You're an expert indeed. An expert of nonsense.
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Zones were fantastic but it would have been nice if there was some good end-game content on which you spend, you know, the majority of the game.

Ulduar is the saving grace of WotLK end-game content, it's a fantastic raid that got the short end of the stick, but beyond that it was pretty bad.
 
Wrath had the best zones except Scholazar basin. I will never accept a fucking jungle in the north pole no matter what the lore says.
 
One thing I will admit is the escorting a grandma quest in Highmountain is kinda bullshit. So is the herding cats one in Suramar. But I think those are more tongue-in-cheek than anything.

What's nice about Legion is that while yeah, there's the same 4 leveling zones, you can always mix up the order to keep things somewhat fresh on alts. Combined with enough bonus objective areas and off-the-beaten path quest hubs in a couple of the zones that you won't get bored quite as easily. Don't think the treasures and rares give nearly as much XP as WoD though if you were into that a lot - mostly small bits of artifact power.

Not saying that past a few times through you'll find it thrilling however - no way it could be.

Though for sure I'm not leveling any alts past maybe 1 very soon. The artifact grind at launch won't allow it without a lot of extra free time to devote (which I won't have this go around). And to be honest I've sort of settled on the few classes I actually enjoy playing at this stage. There's little incentive for alts since you'll want/need to grind most things on a main character. Rewards are more tied to active participation in world quests/etc. vs. merely managing garrisons at a low time impact. There's only so many hours in the day available for active play.

Now I do want to see some different order hall storylines through, but trying to do them all near launch would be a gargantuan task. I'll take my time over the course of the expansion.
 
ICC was a great raid and while it did go on for too long I had exponentially more fun with it then the year of dragon soul or SoO, and since I haven't been raiding in WoD I pugged HFC on normal once, and LFR like 3 times and I was already sick of it.

If I had to actually raid it I think I'd be on suicide watch.

Nere said:
Wrath had the best zones except Scholazar basin. I will never accept a fucking jungle in the north pole no matter what the lore says.
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Sholazar basin whistle is still the best zone theme and honestly the only one I can think of off the top of my head aside from the nef dun dunna dun dun dunna dun dun dunna dun one.
 
CassSept said:
Ulduar is the saving grace of WotLK end-game content, it's a fantastic raid that got the short end of the stick, but beyond that it was pretty bad.
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Wrath is one of my favorite expansions but like I've said in the past yeah the raid scene was shitttttt. Naxx was awful and an insult to the original, ToGC was.... something, and ICC was average at best but disrespected the playerbase by taking multiple months before it was fully unlocked. I actually couldn't even make it that far myself, I peaced out on Wrath before ICC was even fully unlocked out of boredom.

Ulduar is the only thing the raid scene had going for it, it was a great raid (overrated as hell but still really great) but they cut the legs off it with ToGC.
 
are survival hunters proper melee with the changes, like if I start a lvl 1 survival hunter (wait u need to be 10 to choose specs right? whatever), will I be playing like a actual melee character or whats going on there?

I want my WAR White Lion damn it ;_;
 
You guys talk about the pvp changes yet?

Normalizing gear is a great way to make everyone more effective and allow skill to play more of a role in pvp but it takes away a lot of the incentive hardcore pvpers had.
 
ZenaxPure said:
Wrath is one of my favorite expansions but like I've said in the past yeah the raid scene was shitttttt. Naxx was awful and an insult to the original, ToGC was.... something, and ICC was average at best but disrespected the playerbase by taking multiple months before it was fully unlocked. I actually couldn't even make it that far myself, I peaced out on Wrath before ICC was even fully unlocked out of boredom.

Ulduar is the only thing the raid scene had going for it, it was a great raid (overrated as hell but still really great) but they cut the legs off it with ToGC.
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If you think Naxx was awful and ICC was average then what is Dragon Soul and Mt Hyjal? No all Wrath raids were really good except ToC.
 
Nere said:
If you think Naxx was awful and ICC was average then what is Dragon Soul and Mt Hyjal? No all Wrath raids were really good except ToC.
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Dragon Soul and Hyjal being shit doesn't change Naxx being awful and ICC being average. Nothing is completely binary like that. Hyjal is multiple levels of shit worse than anything in Wrath (or the game really, its hands down the worst raid in this game) but that doesn't mean I couldn't find ICC underwhelming.
 
I assume Legion zones will be no-fly from the start again? if so that makes the CE more appealing for that fel hunter mount/pet for mah demo lock
 
CassSept said:
Zones were fantastic but it would have been nice if there was some good end-game content on which you spend, you know, the majority of the game.
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If you are arguing that Wrath end-game was worse than most of the other expansions, I'm not seeing it. Ulduar and ICC were both great raids (Ulduar is one of the best by virtually all considerations and ICC is my favorite end-of-expansion raid) and Naxx was perhaps the most fun, accessible "starter raid" the game has ever had without falling into the LFR trap of mechanics being so weak you can ignore them. Dungeons were easy, but worth doing due to justice/valor and at least in my experience Wrath had by far the healthiest, longest-lasting dungeon running environment of any expansion. People were always doing them for one reason or another, compared to pretty much every expansion after where they quickly went obsolete and were forgotten about.

On a related note, I think it's kind of weird when people use the content drought at the end of an expansion as a slight against that expansion. The fact that there was like 15 months of ICC before Cata launched doesn't make ICC a bad raid, it just makes Blizzard bad at scheduling/development time. Once the final raid is released, the expansion is over. I don't really understand taking points away from an expansion due to how long it was over. I judge it based on the content it actually included.
 
Rhaknar said:
I assume Legion zones will be no-fly from the start again? if so that makes the CE more appealing for that fel hunter mount/pet for mah demo lock
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Correct. There's a pathfinder part 1 achievement that will increase your mounted speed which is in at launch, but the ability to actually fly will be restricted to a later patch behind (an)other pathfinder achievement(s) in addition to this first one.

-----

And I guess people slight ICC for being rolled out in wings slowly (in case anyone forgot), but that was mostly due to it releasing in like December or whatever. Had it all been dropped at once, holidays conflicting with the raid scene would've been a mess for progression guilds.

And to be honest, the gating like that, especially with limited attempts on end-wing bosses was not that bad compared to other ways it has been done. Also one of the best things about ICC was the complimentary dungeons. Really hoping that comes back with this "mega" dungeon and whatever other patches.
 
so I only played Warlords up to lvl 100, did the first raid LFR once and then stopped. Where are we lore wise? what happend in it, and how does it lead to Legion?

is there any video that explains this?
 
ZenaxPure said:
Because that is literally not true. The expansion is over when the next one launches.
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Not from a content standpoint. The final content patch of an expansion (generally the raid that finishes the expansion story) is the "end" of the expansion. Development has stopped and Blizzard's focus is fully on making the next one. The fact that Blizzard is terrible at getting the next expansions out in a timely manner doesn't reduce the quality of the current/previous one.
 
ZenaxPure said:
Because that is literally not true. The expansion is over when the next one launches.
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That's the perception, yeah. The time until next expansion reflects super poorly on the expansion people are stuck with meanwhile.

Rhaknar said:
so I only played Warlords up to lvl 100, did the first raid LFR once and then stopped. Where are we lore wise? what happend in it, and how does it lead to Legion?

is there any video that explains this?
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are, but the gist is that WoD lore doesn't matter since it's an alternate timeline. All you need to know is that Gul'dan, a demon worshiping badass from an alternate timeline, stepped through into the main timeline (our Azeroth), and is attempting to do what the actual Gul'dan couldn't. Major demon invasion ho!
 
Rhaknar said:
so I only played Warlords up to lvl 100, did the first raid LFR once and then stopped. Where are we lore wise? what happend in it, and how does it lead to Legion?

is there any video that explains this?
Click to expand...

Archimonde throws alt-Gul'dan to the portal he walked out of and Gul'dan somehow ends up in our timeline and starts the invasion.
 
Tacitus_ said:
Archimonde throws alt-Gul'dan to the portal he walked out of and Gul'dan somehow ends up in our timeline and starts the invasion.
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all I needed to know, thanks. What was the final boss of Warlords anyway? Alt-Archi?
 
Rhaknar said:
all I needed to know, thanks. What was the final boss of Warlords anyway? Alt-Archi?
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Technically the same Archi, there is no alt-anything when it comes to the Legion due to demons being pan-dimensional or some shit. It's all wibbly wobbly timey shit and the given explanations don't stand up to much scrutiny.
 
Anoregon said:
Not from a content standpoint. The final content patch of an expansion (generally the raid that finishes the expansion story) is the "end" of the expansion. Development has stopped and Blizzard's focus is fully on making the next one. The fact that Blizzard is terrible at getting the next expansions out in a timely manner doesn't reduce the quality of the current/previous one.
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Gonna have to agree to disagree because that is crazy talk to me. Leaving an expansion out to rot nearly a year absolutely hampers the quality of it. It's pretty simple really, it shows that they paced the content poorly which is absolutely the case of Wrath (and every other expansion, not a single one has done it right). Actual quality aside (since I've said my piece on that) if they had waited a few more months to release ToGC and then released ICC a bit later Wrath would have been significantly better paced, thus leaving less time at the end of the expansion making the overall experience better.
 
The Gul'dan raid battle will just be him throwing demon herpes at the raid while everyone scrambles to put Cure Disease on their hotbars.
 
The removal of gold missions will at least give me 15 more minutes of sleep every mornings before work, yay!
 
The game just finished the patch. Now we just need servers! I'm so torn as to what to do about my Demonology Warlock. It sounds like they got nerfed so hard that they are one of the worst specs in the game. That has been my main since the beginning, so it will be sad to change specs/characters.
 
Stormwatch said:
The game just finished the patch. Now we just need servers! I'm so torn as to what to do about my Demonology Warlock. It sounds like they got nerfed so hard that they are one of the worst specs in the game. That has been my main since the beginning, so it will be sad to change specs/characters.
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ironically its one of the reasons I want to resub, but I dont care about the dmg, I only cre about the flavor. And more demons used in spells is what Ive wanted for years :(

hopefully they buff the dmg after
 
I kinda liked turning into a Demon, though. I realize that lore-wise it makes more sense for the Demon Hunter to do that, but I wish I could have those moves back.
 
Stormwatch said:
I kinda liked turning into a Demon, though. I realize that lore-wise it makes more sense for the Demon Hunter to do that, but I wish I could have those moves back.
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oh thats gone? always hated that heh
 
Rhaknar said:
are survival hunters proper melee with the changes, like if I start a lvl 1 survival hunter (wait u need to be 10 to choose specs right? whatever), will I be playing like a actual melee character or whats going on there?

I want my WAR White Lion damn it ;_;
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Yep, pure melee hunter. What little I played seemed pretty fun, though I didn't experience any end-game content on it.

Annoyingly, you have to do 1 to 10 as BM. Every class now starts level 1 in a specific spec and you can't change til 10 as usual.
 
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