August Wrasslin' |OT| Make a.. make a good...uh...a good wrestling thread

Vince McMahon said:
Do you have a reference for this? There was an FB post going around that was a screengrab of some fansite doing it that people took as gospel

Don't get me wrong, I want Steve to be a nice guy. I just don't trust him.
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I saw the same thing you did probably now that I think about it.

But there is audio of him being asked whether the Freebirds use of the Confederate Flag should prevent them from being in the HOF. He basically said the WWE should just remove the imagery of it but that they should still be inducted.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/0904/600311/steve-austin-and-ric-flair-on-if-confederate-flag-should-hurt/
 
Wait. Sami Zayn -- the guy who defeated his long-time nemesis Kevin Owens in a great match last PPV -- is not on the SummerSlam card?

What the heck?
 
Zach said:
Wait. Sami Zayn -- the guy who defeated his long-time nemesis Kevin Owens in a great match last PPV -- is not on the SummerSlam card?

What the heck?
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It's not surprising. Do you see the way RAW treats their talent? Rusev is going to jump ship and then Sami will give the little Daniel a call and do the same.
 
SomewhatGroovy said:
Friend, Tom.

You and I know damn well that when an iconic performer who built a career calling people fat bloated transvestites and two penny whores gets calls to run for president, that there will be nothing done about two performers who, at worst, got caught a handful of times with throwaway lines riddled with inappropriate language.

Mind you, we are also discussing a company, one WWE, who also invited bigots on stage (Jerry Lawler) and in the stands to insult Dustin Rhodes/Golddust.

I mean, you're calling for the top company in the industry to be not spoken about. Here's hoping some new strong positions come out of the news that they met with GLAAD. I still feel performers who were in the wrong in the past at least acknowledge it.

On that note, lol at this article and the picture they use at the top

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gay-marriage-shouldnt-be-a-surprise/#comments
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Wanting better from the fans is what I'm after. I know the business itself is fucked beyond repair, but I think the audience has hope

gun_haver said:
we all know brock has spoken out about not liking gays, but has aj ever said so? i know there was something about him saying 'the gay community?!' in an incredulous way, but i don't know the context and haven't seen the clip.

enlighten my ass.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOPhWzfiN0 That is one instance of many where, either in TNA or elsewhere on the indies, he went on the record saying that homophobic slur. In a shoot he essentially said it was the only curse word he felt comfortable using, and while the shoot was a while ago, his use of said curse has remained, with an instance as recently as last year among other homophobic taunts.

If fans want me to appreciate the work of these people, okay that is fair. But I will not financially support or verbally praise people who clearly 1) don't want me to be their fan and 2) would treat me harsher than any other if I were.

"It's an opinion", some will say. I'd wager those people have never seen someone shout that homophobic slur at them and genuinely felt worry about what they'd do next, or read someone say "I hate gay people. Write that down" with comments below praising the person for saying such things aloud and fear what will happen if more people start hearing and agreeing with toxic comments like that. It's 2016 and people still don't recognize, know, or at least won't admit, where hate speech leads, despite history providing many, many horrific examples.

Didn't mean for this to be a long rant or anything, it just still hurts seeing comments like "Why would you let x lower your opinion of y" when it sounds like the commenter has never been affected by x
 
I hate to be saddled with the Broken Record gimmick like I'm NeoGAF Vince McMahon talking about CM Punk's UFC fight, but I don't watch RAW, dudes. I only watch the Super Awesome Network Spectaculars. So I don't get a lot of the, uh, nuance.

>_>
 
Zach said:
I hate to be saddled with the Broken Record gimmick like I'm NeoGAF Vince McMahon talking about CM Punk's UFC fight, but I don't watch RAW, dudes. I only watch the Super Awesome Network Spectaculars. So I don't get a lot of the, uh, nuance.

>_>
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Well after last night's show, you won't be the only one to skip RAW.

SmackDown Live, on the other hand, is solid.
 
Sweeney Tom said:
For a 4 hour regular show with a 2 hour preshow (plus overrun), the idea that a guy who was last seen winning is just not on a 6+ hour card is baffling
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It is and should be baffling. But I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm just not surprised by the decisions WWE makes nowadays. Like, of course they aren't doing anything/don't know what to do with Zayn even though he destroys every PPV he's on.
 
The original plan for Sami probably was to feud with Rusev but then Roman fucked up, got demoted (temporarily) and they ended up giving him Sami's place on the card. So yeah, it's all Roman's fault

#Conspiracy #IBelieveIt #FreeSami
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOPhWzfiN0 That is one instance of many where, either in TNA or elsewhere on the indies, he went on the record saying that homophobic slur. In a shoot he essentially said it was the only curse word he felt comfortable using, and while the shoot was a while ago, his use of said curse has remained, with an instance as recently as last year among other homophobic taunts.

If fans want me to appreciate the work of these people, okay that is fair. But I will not financially support or verbally praise people who clearly 1) don't want me to be their fan and 2) would treat me harsher than any other if I were.

"It's an opinion", some will say. I'd wager those people have never seen someone shout that homophobic slur at them and genuinely felt worry about what they'd do next, or read someone say "I hate gay people. Write that down" with comments below praising the person for saying such things aloud and fear what will happen if more people start hearing and agreeing with toxic comments like that. It's 2016 and people still don't recognize, know, or at least won't admit, where hate speech leads, despite history providing many, many horrific examples.

Didn't mean for this to be a long rant or anything, it just still hurts seeing comments like "Why would you let x lower your opinion of y" when it sounds like the commenter has never been affected by x
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No need to explain yourself here - looks like the evidence is in.

AJ Styles is great to watch in the ring, but looks like he's one of the bad guys holding this shit down. In my opinion, looking at this, and all the changes trying to occur in wrestling according to the times and the knowledge, he's a relic. He's 39 - young still, but he's from the age when that was what was said and what was done, and unless he comes out and apologizes for it, then it'll haunt him forever. No matter how great a match he has, I'll think 'that's a homophobe right there.'

Conflicted feelings for many I imagine.
 
I could not care less about the guy playing AJ Styles nor his irrelevant opinions, I'm not sure why people put so much weight on things like that, I mean, being homophobic is fucked up and incredibly stupid, but why the fuck care about his opinions, he's just one more guy.
 
Sweeney Tom said:
Wanting better from the fans is what I'm after. I know the business itself is fucked beyond repair, but I think the audience has hope



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOPhWzfiN0 That is one instance of many where, either in TNA or elsewhere on the indies, he went on the record saying that homophobic slur. In a shoot he essentially said it was the only curse word he felt comfortable using, and while the shoot was a while ago, his use of said curse has remained, with an instance as recently as last year among other homophobic taunts.

If fans want me to appreciate the work of these people, okay that is fair. But I will not financially support or verbally praise people who clearly 1) don't want me to be their fan and 2) would treat me harsher than any other if I were.

"It's an opinion", some will say. I'd wager those people have never seen someone shout that homophobic slur at them and genuinely felt worry about what they'd do next, or read someone say "I hate gay people. Write that down" with comments below praising the person for saying such things aloud and fear what will happen if more people start hearing and agreeing with toxic comments like that. It's 2016 and people still don't recognize, know, or at least won't admit, where hate speech leads, despite history providing many, many horrific examples.

Didn't mean for this to be a long rant or anything, it just still hurts seeing comments like "Why would you let x lower your opinion of y" when it sounds like the commenter has never been affected by x
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I understand that homophobia is a garbage belief system (though I'd imagine a decade in the entertainment industry probably has softened both of them on the matter), but ultimately, I do not understand the notion that people need to be judged in one sphere by their conduct in another sphere. Styles has basically zilch in the way of weight when it comes to affecting social attitudes, whereas his wrestling is likely going to be an inspiration to future wrestlers for many, many years, not to even mention the great joy and exhilaration he supplies to audiences on a regular basis in the here and now. In short, I'd posit that he contributes far, far more to the world as a performer than he detracts as a person by possibly having shitty attitudes that he pretty much keeps to himself. The all-or-nothing moral absolutism of modern discourse is highly discomfiting.
 
It's easy to look past AJ's attitude toward the LGBT community when you're not the one being targeted by the hateful speech.

I wish AJ didn't say the things he said, and I hope he has changed. If he hasn't, I hope he can be educated and he'll eventually come around. I still find him entertaining regardless. But I'm not gay, so his attitude towards the LGBT community isn't as personal to me as it would be to someone who is.
 
it's always cute when ya'll pretend homophobia and racism aren't the norm in the world of pro wrestling. like you just remain willfully ignorant of the culture that surrounds pro wrestling since its inception and think 'no no not my fave. he could never!'
 
Data West said:
it's always cute when ya'll pretend homophobia and racism aren't the norm in the world of pro wrestling. like you just remain willfully ignorant of the culture that surrounds pro wrestling since its inception and think 'no no not my fave. he could never!'
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Exactly.

Sami Zayn is probably the only Bernie Bro on the roster, but that sort of cancels out when you consider he listens to ska.
 
XenoRaven said:
It's easy to look past AJ's attitude toward the LGBT community when you're not the one being targeted by the hateful speech.

I wish AJ didn't say the things he said, and I hope he has changed. If he hasn't, I hope he can be educated and he'll eventually come around. I still find him entertaining regardless. But I'm not gay, so his attitude towards the LGBT community isn't as personal to me as it would be to someone who is.
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That's fine, but to then turn around and say "I just want better of the fans" re: this is preening silliness, especially when even following the industry at all means you are basically contributing to one of the biggest moral sinkholes remaining in the modern world. I saw him praising that Omega/Naito match, but does anybody imagine New Japan is ANY better? If anything, it's probably worse, given how much more rigid gender roles are in Japan.
 
Glad I live in a country where homophobia is still frowned upon by the general public and not something that is shrugged off easily.

Also, I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment that thinking "gay marriage is wrong" is acceptable as long as "you are not a dick about it." I am sorry, but that is still bigotry and that is not okay. Marriage is not owned by anyone, certainly not religion, and any person thinking such a basic human principle should be prohibited for other humans because they find their love "wrong" is never, ever, in the right. Ever.

Nobody is perfect and I am all for people with shitty world views being allowed to change and forgiven for being ignorant, though, so if you said something shitty or made a shitty joke in 1999, it shouldn't haunt you forever even after you make it clear that you have changed. Change is good. Acceptance is good.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I understand that homophobia is a garbage belief system (though I'd imagine a decade in the entertainment industry probably has softened both of them on the matter), but ultimately, I do not understand the notion that people need to be judged in one sphere by their conduct in another sphere. Styles has basically zilch in the way of weight when it comes to affecting social attitudes, whereas his wrestling is likely going to be an inspiration to future wrestlers for many, many years, not to even mention the great joy and exhilaration he supplies to audiences on a regular basis in the here and now. In short, I'd posit that he contributes far, far more to the world as a performer than he detracts as a person by possibly having shitty attitudes that he pretty much keeps to himself. The all-or-nothing moral absolutism of modern discourse is highly discomfiting.
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I see your point pal, but this is a matter of entertainment. I think it's a safe bet to say most of the posters in here are ashamed that they like wrestling - why? Cos it's fake? Nope. That doesn't matter, all entertainment is fake, that's kind of the point of it.

We're ashamed because wrestling at large has and continues to inflame contemporary social divisions to the objective of building simple face/heel dynamics. Wrestling wants either cheers or boos, and one of the easiest ways to go about that is to feed into pre-existing social biases. Look at how people chanted USA at Rusev when Roman came down the ramp, even though by any measure, Rusev is the more entertaining performer with more potential. They write it specifically to appeal to lowest common denominator emotional triggers. Patriotism, sexism, racism, homphobia, and classism. All the big ones.

So when you somehow continue to pay attention despite all that, having problems with all that, but still kinda love the spectacle - you at least hope that the performers in the ring are better than that, and that begins to become who you root for. People who are so good they demand big matches despite not fitting in to WWE (and wrestling in general)'s idea of what will get over big. Those people, you hope, are good people, people you can root for on a shoot level - like, I want to see this guy make a lot of money and have the crowd appreciate him.

So when you have someone like AJ Styles, who ticks many boxes in that regard - internationally interesting life, excellent in ring performer, good character work when it is needed - and you hear, oh, shit he's a homophobe? It's disappointing. Just like it's disappointing when you learn Brock is a homophobe. Or that even Cena, one of our current Good Guys, was fine with doing those homophobic promos.

Wrestling isn't quite fiction television, it's something in between that, stuntman olympics and reality TV, so there isn't a clear comparison to make with it.

I agree there's no need to do a witch hunt on someone like AJ Styles, but I wanted to point out his opinions taint him, and that's something that performers in the future should take note of. It might make them take a second look at their insular views or, more realistically, might help them learn how to hide it, which will at least both stop it from spreading further as an opinion, and also help to continue to rehabilitate the image of wrestling.
 
Cena is weird. He's been dropping homophobic promos for a decade plus, but then also stars in PSAs to say how homophobia is bad.

Why doesn't he just stop cutting homophobic promos?
 
Data West said:
nah but you'll blackface for days
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If our worst offense is having a caricature of a black guy be a friend to children and just about the nicest and most beloved children's figure around, I say we are still doing pretty good, all things considered, even if I did wish my Fellow countrymen weren't beimg such rigid tools about the whole thing.
 
I was kind of hoping that Brock would give heath the match, then when it starts he puts up a finger to say "hold on", then rolls out to grab a chair and proceeds to beat the living crap out of heath with it, like an extended beat down and then an f5 onto the set up chair, drawing a DQ in the process. Then he looks at the dead slater and says "you're welcome" with a look of contempt. Heath wins and gets his contract while Brock looks like an insane monster


Then Stephanie says that the stipulation was that slater had to win by pinfall or submission and that a dq doesn't count. Or not
 
gun_haver said:
I see your point pal, but this is a matter of entertainment. I think it's a safe bet to say most of the posters in here are ashamed that they like wrestling - why? Cos it's fake? Nope. That doesn't matter, all entertainment is fake, that's kind of the point of it.

We're ashamed because wrestling at large has and continues to inflame contemporary social divisions to the objective of building simple face/heel dynamics. Wrestling wants either cheers or boos, and one of the easiest ways to go about that is to feed into pre-existing social biases. Look at how people chanted USA at Rusev when Roman came down the ramp, even though by any measure, Rusev is the more entertaining performer with more potential. They write it specifically to appeal to lowest common denominator emotional triggers. Patriotism, sexism, racism, homphobia, and classism. All the big ones.

So when you somehow continue to pay attention despite all that, having problems with all that, but still kinda love the spectacle - you at least hope that the performers in the ring are better than that, and that begins to become who you root for. People who are so good they demand big matches despite not fitting in to WWE (and wrestling in general)'s idea of what will get over big. Those people, you hope, are good people, people you can root for on a shoot level - like, I want to see this guy make a lot of money and have the crowd appreciate him.

So when you have someone like AJ Styles, who ticks many boxes in that regard - internationally interesting life, excellent in ring performer, good character work when it is needed - and you hear, oh, shit he's a homophobe? It's disappointing. Just like it's disappointing when you learn Brock is a homophobe. Or that even Cena, one of our current Good Guys, was fine with doing those homophobic promos, was also fine with it.

Wrestling isn't quite fiction television, it's something in between that, stuntman olympics and reality TV, so there isn't a clear comparison to make with it.

I agree there's no need to do a witch hunt on someone like AJ Styles, but I wanted to point out his opinions taint him, and that's something that performers in the future should take note of. It might make them take a second look at their insular views or, more realistically, might help them learn how to hide it, which will at least both stop it from spreading further as an opinion, and also help to continue to rehabilitate the image of wrestling.
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Well, I have a pretty big problem with the "Fuck WWE, I'm only cheering for the indie guys!" mentality and think that it is contributing to the ruination of wrestling, but I agree on the last point - believe what you want, but keep it to yourself and we'll all be better off for it.
 
billbored.gif
 
Nekofrog said:
I was kind of hoping that Brock would give heath the match, then when it starts he puts up a finger to say "hold on", then rolls out to grab a chair and proceeds to beat the living crap out of heath with it, like an extended beat down and then an f5 onto the set up chair, drawing a DQ in the process. Then he looks at the dead slater and says "you're welcome" with a look of contempt. Heath wins and gets his contract while Brock looks like an insane monster


Then Stephanie says that the stipulation was that slater had to win by pinfall or submission and that a dq doesn't count. Or not
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I would have preferred that Heath roll Lesnar up
 
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