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[Emperor_Uriel]

Really hoping it's all a setup and the mystery girl is a new villain. Pearl is at her best when her emotions are being curbstomped.

I don't know what they expected from a show made an artistic, nerdy, bisexual woman with a short hair cut and a distinctly progressive view on sexuality.

While I'm a big fan of PearlxRose and RubyxSapphire, I can see how people might be a little tired of the lack of a real heterosexual romance in the series. GregxRose was in the past (and is largely still shrouded in an air of tragic mystery), Steven and Connie are kids, and the less said about LarsxSadie, the better. From a truly progressive standpoint, the fact that the show seems to shy away from showing a truly equal, emotionally positive, adult heterosexual relationship is troubling.

The show could be doing a lot more to encourage the (likely quite substantial) audience of young straight girls to express themselves in ways that combat traditional gender norms. Instead, it could be seen as reinforcing the notion that all non-traditional women are lesbians. "Let's make all the cool women gay" isn't as progressive as, say, "let's have a balance of cool gay and straight women." The latter is the only truly progressive, feminist path.

The moment you see the mystery girl, with her fierce hair, piercings, and empowered, masculine style, the traditional assumption is that she's going to be a lesbian. Instead of combating that negative stereotype, SU doubles-down on it, which is quite unfortunate.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Man,

Spoiler

Rigby hooking up with Eileen

was the best thing to happen to RS, i had lost track of the series for a long time but now i have it as background noise, so all these episodes focused on

Spoiler

Rigby bettering himself for Eileen

are so good. The surprise episode was adorable.

Yeah what really got me back into the show was that episode, it could have easily been a sitcom plot but then when Eileen says that he doesn't have to change for her and then replies that he wants to do it for himself is some grade A writing.

Turning that into an entire arc about Rigby going back to school saved that show and made it relatable for the first time.

Agreed on both counts

i loved the setup for it

Spoiler

due to his gradual change towards her and was hyped as fuck when it was finally confirmed. And they are pretty adorable together

.

One of my favorite episode in that arc was

Spoiler

the snow tubing one and how he helped her overcome her fear (even if it stemmed from a weaksauce incident lol) plus the field trip one where he became a survival badass due to what he learned in class.

Plus is helps flushes the whole

Spoiler

bullshit with Moredcai and his relationship woes

Anyways onto the topic at hand: Lets see what comes out of this for Pearl

 

[Atraveller]

I don't know, but I remember one Gaffer referring to it as looking like a prolapsed anus and now I can't see anything else.

Wow.

I mean you're not exactly wrong.

But wow.

 

[Infinite Justice]

I don't know, but I remember one Gaffer referring to it as looking like a prolapsed anus and now I can't see anything else.

i remember this as well LOL just dont remember who said it.

 

[Toxi]

GregxRose was in the past (and is largely still shrouded in an air of tragic mystery),

We've had three flashback episodes entirely focused on Greg and Rose's life. It's no longer exactly mysterious.

Also, I don't think /co/ shitheads calling this the worst episode ever because Pearl will start dating a woman with pink hair are an audience worth defending.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Also, I don't think /co/ shitheads calling this the worst episode ever because Pearl will start dating a woman with pink hair are an audience worth defending.

True, but there's a valid argument to be made, even if some people try to make it in a moronic fashion.

I would have absolutely zero issue with the episode if the woman were femme in the same way that Pearl is, but whenever I see a masculine or "butch" lesbian in media, it strikes a nerve with me. I'll never understand why that one particular stereotype proves so insurmountable, even for talented writers. Thank God that Jack from Mass Effect exists. haha

 

[Killer Queen]

Edit: Nvm, I shouldn't have snapped at you; I need to listen to Here Comes A Thought or somethin'.
Hopefully the image is fixed, I have no idea why it suddenly shrunk on both GAF and even the wiki.
:/
Hopefully the new image works.

No hard feelings but yeah it's a bit better now.

 

[PaulloDEC]

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!

Even though it's essentially the standard in SU, it still always comes as a pleasant surprise to me. It sets a high bar for children's animation that I hope future shows try to learn from.

 

[Shard]

Even though it's essentially the standard in SU, it still always comes as a pleasant surprise to me. It sets a high bar for children's animation that I hope future shows try to learn from.

I have been seeing this quite a bit more from shows of recent vintage.

 

[hateradio]

That was a really cute episode. :]

 

[Permanently A]

Roast me slowly over a fire, but I really dislike the Ronaldo episodes.

wake up sneeple

 

[UnnecessaryTodd]

The fact that the show seems to shy away from showing a truly equal, emotionally positive, adult heterosexual relationship is troubling.

But there are hundreds of that kind of relationship on television. I love the fact that they explore both positive and negative relationships on the show. This isn't something like "Read Only Memories" where every single couple is gay because "diversity". This show does a fantastic job of showing all different kinds of relationships both heterosexual and non.

I mean even then I would totally disagree in that I think RosexGreg is an equal, emotionally positive adult relationship, but even then we also have Steven/Connie. Even though they're kids, they're both a hell of a lot more mature than most adult relationships on television. Who cares if they're kids? They send that positive message regardless of age. There doesn't need to be a third, present-time heterolationship because it would serve no story purpose. It would be shoehorned in for the sake of filling this particular niche and nothing more. Since all the themes it could explore are already being explored.

The show is unabashedly about love in all its forms and no single view point is done half-assed.

The show could be doing a lot more to encourage the (likely quite substantial) audience of young straight girls to express themselves in ways that combat traditional gender norms. Instead, it could be seen as reinforcing the notion that all non-traditional women are lesbians. "Let's make all the cool women gay" isn't as progressive as, say, "let's have a balance of cool gay and straight women." The latter is the only truly progressive, feminist path.

The moment you see the mystery girl, with her fierce hair, piercings, and empowered, masculine style, the traditional assumption is that she's going to be a lesbian. Instead of combating that negative stereotype, SU doubles-down on it, which is quite unfortunate.

...what?!!??! I mean, firstly Rose (although I guess she's bi? Gay for gems? who knows it doesn't matter) and Sadie are far from traditional, and both of them are very explicitly shown to be cool. So "Have a balance of cool gay and straight women" is ticked, got that covered.

Secondly, to ignore a stereotype completely like mystery girl is just as much a disservice as to make all people fulfil that stereotype. Which the show doesn't do. Pearl, Garnet/Ruby/Sapphire are all unique and don't fit into any particular stereotype. The stereotype exists because it truly does represent a portion of gay women out there. Being progressive doesn't mean to subvert every single stereotype because that's just as non-progressive. It's using a balance of people that fulfil that stereotype (because they also exist) along with people who don't, to show that there isn't a difference. To bridge that gap you can't close your eyes to the side that is "not 100% correct" because no one side ever is. You have to show both.

 

[Opto]

I really want Pearl to be happy. She deserves it

 

[Debirudog]

The moment you see the mystery girl, with her fierce hair, piercings, and empowered, masculine style, the traditional assumption is that she's going to be a lesbian. Instead of combating that negative stereotype, SU doubles-down on it, which is quite unfortunate.

I don't quite agree with this. The fact that Pearl is practically a nerdy elegant lesbian already stands for diversification. Sapphire and Peridot too. They are some more ladies who are more than others. So what? SU showed all kinds of lesbian characters, can they not show a character like the mysterious lady?

Eh, whatever.

 

[Geist-]

I don't quite agree with this. The fact that Pearl is practically a nerdy elegant lesbian already stands for diversification. Sapphire and Peridot too. They are some more ladies who are more than others. So what? SU showed all kinds of lesbian characters, can they not show a character like the mysterious lady?

Eh, whatever.

I know butch lesbians irl that fit that stereotype, it's not like it's just a construct of fiction. There's no reason why they shouldn't be represented in a show like this.

 

[Opto]

Yeah this rainbow of gay women is problematic

 

[The_Kid]

Is an argument really trying to be made that the show isn't representing straight people enough?

I mean, this is the only kids cartoon in recent memory where the entire plot was about a character moving on from her same-sex attraction to someone, and bettering herself. But that's not enough?

Some people are never satisfied. Gravity Falls couldn't even show a same sex elderly couple on screen but when one show has a lot of queer representation it's gone too far.

As for the butch character, why does it matter? That's like the only character portrayed that way. It's not like every gem is made butch.

 

[Atraveller]

SU has plenty of straight people, and there has only been 1.5 lesbian relationships in the show, Ruby/Sapphire and Pearl's one-sided attraction to Rose.

 

[Killer Queen]

SU has plenty of straight people, and there has only been 1.5 lesbian relationships in the show, Garnet/Sapphire and Pearl's one-sided attraction to Rose.

Spoiler

Your post is more entertaining with your avatar's expression

 

[Psxphile]

Lapis is tired of all this squabblin'.

 

[Chezzymann]

There's plenty of straight relationships. Sadie/lars, Greg/rose, vidalia/yellowtail, Steven/Connie (at least it's hinted at) ronaldo/Jane.

Hell Id say that the male/female relationships depicted outnumber the gay ones. Unless you count things like the rubies blushing at jasper or something. But like, the entire gem society is gay so that's how it goes lol. In beach city its pretty balanced

 

[Blood Diamonds]

I mean...the entire fucking show revolves around the offspring of a heterosexual relationship I'm.... fucking lol

 

[DeadPhoenix]

Man I'm glad the show creators probably don't give a shit about checking off a specific number of hetro or homosexual relationships to meet some arbitrary requirement of... I don't even know what? equality? realism? just trying to be different? Doesn't matter, the show would be worse off either way.

 

[AlfonzoPalutena]

This episode was my favorite episode since Maximum Capacity. I enjoyed it a lot!

I felt like my emotions watching the episode were really in sync with what was happening. I had a strong sense of glee watching Pearl escape the cops. I also found a new artist to listen to, Mike Krol.

I hope Mystery Girl comes back. Now I'm gonna go jam out to Fifteen Minutes.

 

[Dusk Golem]

If the relationships are entertaining, interesting, and natural feeling, I don't care what sexuality or gender those involved in are.

Mystery Girl reinforcing negative stereotypes if one of the silliest arguments I've seen towards this show in a while. I might just perceive it like this as I live in Portland, Oregon, the punk style is worn by a lot around here and has seeped into multiple 'cultures.' Greasers, skinheads, mods, and more. The style has gone on to be influential and seep into other parts of society, and sort of is a adapted style to go with these subcultures outside of the norm. The look is just because she's adapted the style, and the motorbike fits into it as well. This lifestyle will be attractive to many people who are not heterosexual because a big point of the whole punk movement in the first place was a rebuttal to mainstream living and music, to deny the perceived 'societal norm' in favor of unique tastes and experiences. It's grown a lot since then and become representative of something greater of being outside of society's norm, which has attraction to many people who don't fit in with society, which still includes those who are not heterosexual. That doesn't mean the look is for someone who's gay, it just means someone who's gay who comes to easily realize that's not the norm in our current society may find people who they can share their views openly and be accepted by a group who's all about being outside of the norm of society and won't judge you for superficial elements like that (also many people may just like the lifestyle, aesthetic, and music associated with it). I feel I'm not expressing what I mean the best, but it's as simple as being a broad style with a broad appeal to people who enjoy the things that Punk has engulfed as part of its culture which is outside of the societal norm.

I loved this new episode, within my top 10 certainly, though I will admit I enjoyed Mindful Education a bit more overall. But two top-tier episodes so close to each other is great.

 

[Violet_0]

great episode, that's how you do side-stories and character development

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Regarding Mystery Girl and the butch look:

In Fun Home there's a song dedicated to a celebration of a butch lesbian. The creators of the show said that it was super important to include because while there are a fair number of positive lesbian portrayals in pop culture, they are almost never butch. When a butch is portrayed, it's usually the butt of a joke.

Here's the song for anyone who missed my post last page. I would guess that it's a direct inspiration for the Big Donut scene.

https://youtu.be/xHk3o_Yqzzg

PS: Fun Home is awesome, book and musical both.

 

[The Technomancer]

Are we seriously debating this? Steven/Connie is one of the central relationships of the entire show, and Greg and Rose have looked like nothing but a caring (if confused, as all couples are) couple in flashbacks

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Are we seriously debating this? Steven/Connie is one of the central relationships of the entire show, and Greg and Rose have looked like nothing but a caring (if confused, as all couples are) couple in flashbacks

It's ridiculous. Not only are there plenty of straight relationships, the show does not need to give them some sort of equity.

 

[PSqueak]

Im seriously baffled by this discussion, like, did people seriously expect pearl to not still be gay? like, im not sure what are people seemingly mad about.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Y'all are taking a show about gay space rocks too seriously.

 

[PSqueak]

Y'all are taking a show about gay space rocks too seriously.

thisisneogaf.gif

 

[User 73706]

The whole "hetereo relationships aren't given enough screentime" argument feels like a "there's too much lesbian relationship screentime" argument tbh. Heterosexual relationships are pretty much the cornerstone of the series with Rose / Greg and now Steven / Connie, and most of the named human cast has also displayed a number of complicated hetereo relationships, good and bad (like Vidalia and Yellowtail or Vidalia and Marty, respectively). The only reason people don't see the hetereo relationships as having equal screentime to the gay ones is because they're considered "normal" and don't stand out as much by proxy.

That being said, I kind of hope we see some more pansexual characters, because Rose kinda falls into some of the usual pansexual tropes (is apparently banging people more than the rest of the named cast, can't be trusted, etc.) even though it's not as bad as some other shows (like Roger in American Dad). I could see Stevonnie, Steven or even Amethyst being into human dudes, though.

 

[PSqueak]

Other than Rose, Amethyst is the only gem it would make sense to have interest in males given that she was born on earth and soaked on human culture more than any other gem, since in the very least we know she consumes media, hangs out with humans and engages in wrestling, also its the only gem to have a male persona, which makes her the most interesting in regards of sexuality, given that she would be the one more interested in terms of a normal person.

Hell, at this point i pretty much feel she'd know better about sexuality than Rose.

On the other hand, Peridot and Lapis have been consuming that preteen romance show and somehow Peridot was able to ship hetero, but im guessing she sees humans as all the same kind of gem (in her terms) and prolly doesn't fully understand biological sex and/or gender.

 

[MartyStu]

Im seriously baffled by this discussion, like, did people seriously expect pearl to not still be gay? like, im not sure what are people seemingly mad about.

Not sure we know enough about Pearl to say this. For now, she seems to be almost entirely Rose-Sexual.

 

[PSqueak]

Not sure we know enough about Pearl to say this. For now, she seems to be almost entirely Rose-Sexual.

Well, that's true, but i mean, Gems being monogendered it would be weird to not assume they're gay by default until proven otherwise, so given the lack of pearl showing interest on guys it is silly to assume she would like guys after moving on.

 

[User 73706]

Steven Universe sexuality tier list:

Ganondorf-tier: Probably most homeworld gems, Army, Coach Steven-era Sugilite, Malachite, Kevin
Is too euphoric to really get relationships despite wanting one-tier: Jasper, Eyeball, Sardonyx
Can form meaningful relationships but are pretty neutral tier: Navy, Leggy, probably Doc? Corrupted gems too, probably, Cry For Help-era Sugilite, Centi, Opal?
Loads of unresolved fissile tension but no real onscreen romantic gem fusion time: Lapis, Peridot, Amethyst, Lars, Sadie
Aromantic fusion tier: Smoky Quartz, Alexandrite to some extent
Healthy & meaningful relationship tier: Steven & Connie, Greg, Garnet, Stevonnie,

Spoiler

Mr. Smiley and Mr. Frowny

, seemingly Bismuth
gay tier: Yellow Pearl, Answer-era Garnet, Mystery Girl
GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY tier: Ruby & Sapphire, Pearl
Was so gay their sexuality rolled over and made them start a thousand-year-war against an intergalactic hegemony of empirical space colonists in the name of being thirsty for humans tier: Rose Quartz

 

[Raxus]

Forgot Onion Tier:

Onion.

 

[Koomaster]

Ya'll want hetero relationships? Like 95%+ of all other tv shows, cartoons, movies, comics, books, advertisements, songs, video games, etc. you can turn to if you REALLY need to still fill that hole in your life. So I don't personally see any perceived lack of heterosexual relationships in Steven Universe as 'troubling'.

A few main characters on a show aren't 100% straight and people lose their minds.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Can the gems even be classified as 'gay' or 'straight'? It's a species populated entirely by (technically, I guess?) women. There are no other gem genders.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Was Rose's relationship really hetero tho? Humans aren't even the same species as gems. It'd be like some sort of weird bestiality (gem-side) or ... ehr... man, what are gems even supposed to be to humans? Gods?

 

[User 73706]

Was Rose's relationship really hetero tho? Humans aren't even the same species as gems. It'd be like some sort of weird bestiality (gem-side) or ... ehr... man, what are gems even supposed to be to humans? Gods?

Androids? With the difference that humans didn't actually manufacture them.

EDIT' also, Steven's existence makes a little more sense if you basically consider him a cyborg.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Can the gems even be classified as 'gay' or 'straight'? It's a species populated entirely by (technically, I guess?) women. There are no other gem genders.

My sense of it is:

1. For both narrative purposes and being a cartoon on an American network, Gems are asexual aliens who don't have genders or sexuality as humans generally define it.

2. Thematically and for messaging, Gems by design are devices to explore a range of relationship configurations and metaphors that don't have to be limited to hetero-normative conventions. Their alien asexuality prevents gender norms from being pinned on them, allowing them to function as surrogates for any kind of human relationship on the spectrum.

Plus, the fact that they're visually all feminine and use female pronounce is a subversion of the cliche of male as a generic default.

 

[Odrion]

this show needs to stop swinging between being good and a waste of time

My sense of it is:

1. For both narrative purposes and being a cartoon on an American network, Gems are asexual aliens who don't have genders or sexuality as humans generally define it.

2. Thematically and for messaging, Gems by design are devices to explore a range of relationship configurations and metaphors that don't have to be limited to hetero-normative conventions. Their alien asexuality prevents gender norms from being pinned on them, allowing them to function as surrogates for any kind of human relationship on the spectrum.

Plus, the fact that they're visually all feminine and use female pronounce is a subversion of the cliche of male as a generic default.

this and also they are very gay

 

[The Villain]

Really hoping it's all a setup and the mystery girl is a new villain. Pearl is at her best when her emotions are being curbstomped.



While I'm a big fan of PearlxRose and RubyxSapphire, I can see how people might be a little tired of the lack of a real heterosexual romance in the series. GregxRose was in the past (and is largely still shrouded in an air of tragic mystery), Steven and Connie are kids, and the less said about LarsxSadie, the better. From a truly progressive standpoint, the fact that the show seems to shy away from showing a truly equal, emotionally positive, adult heterosexual relationship is troubling.

The show could be doing a lot more to encourage the (likely quite substantial) audience of young straight girls to express themselves in ways that combat traditional gender norms. Instead, it could be seen as reinforcing the notion that all non-traditional women are lesbians. "Let's make all the cool women gay" isn't as progressive as, say, "let's have a balance of cool gay and straight women." The latter is the only truly progressive, feminist path.

The moment you see the mystery girl, with her fierce hair, piercings, and empowered, masculine style, the traditional assumption is that she's going to be a lesbian. Instead of combating that negative stereotype, SU doubles-down on it, which is quite unfortunate.

Lemme guess you think all lives matter too huh

 

[Not]

I mean...the entire fucking show revolves around the offspring of a heterosexual relationship I'm.... fucking lol

Was gonna post this. Good thing I scrolled down

 

[nckillthegrimace]

I read the mysterious woman as being a punk first and not just some sort of dreadful reductive stereotype because of the episode's context of going to a concert and as a contrast to Pearl's typical stuffiness. It didn't even cross my mind that the character is gay until she gives Pearl her phone number. But maybe I'm just not progressive enough to see what's really going on.

Episode totally kicks ass, by the way. Easily the best of the season.

 

[Hamlet]

Absolutely loved this episode. Bad Pearl is amazing.

 

[Exterminieren]

I'm really interested to hear why it is that being a lesbian is a "negative stereotype".

 

[Geist-]

This thread is getting uncomfortable...