InsaneTiger
Member
Define "shitty control scheme." Tank controls in Resident Evil definitely evoke a sense of fear and terror, but do you define that as shitty?
Polygon: "After a Half-Hour with The Last Guardian, I'm Concerned"
- Thread starter Trojan
- Start date
Define "shitty control scheme." Tank controls in Resident Evil definitely evoke a sense of fear and terror, but do you define that as shitty?
Spiral Insanity
Banned
You are jumping the gun... play Shadow of the Colossus. It certainly controls different, but you get used to it. Not all games need to play the same. I'm sure it moves this way for a reason, remember the revolutionary horse controls in SOTC?
I doubt it is 'impossible to control'. It just uses a momentum based system.
But the article in the OP could apply to SOTC...
EatinOlives
Member
Imokwiththis.jpg
It sounds like Team ICO controls, which I never had problems with.
I remain unconcerned.
It sounds like Team ICO controls, which I never had problems with.
I remain unconcerned.
HueyFreeman
Banned
So this thread is over twice the page count of a better, more representative, and more useful thread. Good stuff.
Fabtacular
Member
That's the thing, though. They've barely showed any gameplay at all.
Almost all of the trailers have been cut scenes, and the ten minute "gameplay" I watched on YouTube largely consisted of highly-scripted scenes where control was taken away from the player.
None of that is to say that the game is necessarily bad. But I think there's a lot of filling-in-the-gaps going on with this game in a manner similar to NMS.
Like, I think this game is bascially Ico II: Now with Bird-Dog. But what am I basing that on? Basically just the setting and the fact that I've seen the kid push around a couple boxes and climb some ledges. That's how little we've actually seen of this game.
EatinOlives
Member
Mech Warrior, Elite Dangerous, Resident Evil. Purposefully unwieldy controls have been around for a long time. There's also a gigantic difference between that and just plain old bad controls.
I trust people can see the difference if they're gaming enthusiasts.
Fabtacular
Member
"Team Ico controls" aren't acceptable two generations later in 2016.
If it has controls similar to Ico or SOTC, it won't be "interesting." It won't be "unique." It won't be "quirky."
It will just be bad.
Sammy Samusu
Member
The proven franchise with 3 great games and delivered on time? What about it?
Both TLG and FFXV look bad and are coming from a dev hell cycle after 10 years in production (don't @ me with excuses), and FFXV has a LOT to prove on top of that.
I honestly don't give a flying fuck about TLG as a game, but the saga is interesting enough so I'm anticipating the results.
As for FFXV, I want the franchise to be great again because it used to be the leading force for JRPG, a genre that I love very much.
Acerac
Banned
It feels shockingly similar.
The review thread will be brutal if this game does under 80 metacritic.
It depends how much a threshold you have. I can handle the not as responsive contols (and get used to them ) of Ueda games because I love everything else so much. If you don't like those aspects to get used to the controls then Ueda games are not for you simple as that.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its kind of inevitable though given the history of Polygon as an outlet and many of its key contributors having their impartiality questioned numerous times in the past.
It is what it is.
All the ''real problems'' reported are ALL present in SOTC and Ico though.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I didn't like the controls, the camera, or babysitting the unresponsive AI in Ico so I'm probably gonna hate this game lol
somecrazymember
Banned
Really not concerned about this complaint.
It's exactly what made ICO so good. the kid wobbles when carrying something heavy, runs all tired and stuff. Makes us attach to the character so much more. Not a bug at all, its a gameplay decision and I loved it in ICO personally.
It's exactly what made ICO so good. the kid wobbles when carrying something heavy, runs all tired and stuff. Makes us attach to the character so much more. Not a bug at all, its a gameplay decision and I loved it in ICO personally.
I must have have missed many previews then.
other than the controls and camera issues that can be applied to ICO and SoTC. what are the other real problems?
Okami Haundo
Member
I shouldn't be amazed that people are just responding to OP without reading the article, but here we are. Either way, I'm really curious to see how this game pans out. The awkward movement seems like the norm for these games, but not the lack of a response from Bird-dog. Here's hoping that the game is great after all this time.
EDIT: After reading other previews and dev interviews, it seems like bird-dog's lack of obedience is intentional? That hits close to home. Darn doggos.
EDIT: After reading other previews and dev interviews, it seems like bird-dog's lack of obedience is intentional? That hits close to home. Darn doggos.
gamechanger87
Member
Resident Evil wasn't a platformer so controls matter less than in this type of game. RE was based on a fixed camera system and is a survival horror game. The sense of fear and terror was driven by everything else in that game. All that tank controls did for me in those games was make the monster artificially dangerous because I couldn't accurately aim at them. Tank controls slow down the player which makes sense for some survival horror games, but not so much for a semi-platformer like TLG which require nuanced character movement. Tank controls also really only work in a fixed/semi-fixed camera setup.
Whompa02
Member
Lol please. Those "real problems" are present in literally all the rest of their 2 games.
It's basically known at this point that Team ICO games have awkward controls that take time to get used to.
Learn how to walk before you can run. 30 minute playtest of any Team ICO game and someone says they don't get it? COLOR ME SHOCKED.
SOTC is absolutely my favorite game of all time. It takes time to get used to the control scheme.
EatinOlives
Member
I legitimately like that control style. I'm looking forward to it.
I don't even know what you mean by "two generations later in 2016". Those controls can work regardless of when you play the game. I played through SotC nearly 10 years after its initial release for the first time and loved the weighty feel of the controls.
Non-standard controls = shitty controls = impossible to control. Gotcha.
aygomyownroad
Member
"Plays like a PlayStation 2 game"
So what they are saying is that its fun?
So what they are saying is that its fun?
Which is fine but the money spent on that game has to be quite big. I did enjoy SOTC but if the game feels stiff I am not sure I can enjoy that kind of gameplay anything. The graphics look great tho.
I love how one negative preview from a site with nearly as much credibility as a GAF thread is garnering 8 pages of dismay.
TLG is guaranteed to have an impactful story and if it has controls like other TeamICO games then I really don't see any issue with it. Their animation work is phenomenal and characters control acceptably. I highly doubt it doesn't control any better but I doubt even if it does control like SoTC then I'm more than happy.
TLG is guaranteed to have an impactful story and if it has controls like other TeamICO games then I really don't see any issue with it. Their animation work is phenomenal and characters control acceptably. I highly doubt it doesn't control any better but I doubt even if it does control like SoTC then I'm more than happy.
No the budget is not that big this has been said multiple times. The games has not been in active development for 10 years. They have had at most a handful of people working on it (porting the engine) over all these years. And even now that they have been in full production the team is still very very small.
Clint Beastwood
Banned
If any other game plays like a game from over a decade ago it gets slammed for "archaic" controls and gameplay mechanics. With TLG it's a good thing lol
You're basically admitting that controls indeed do add to the feeling of playing a particular game, but only in certain genres? Why?
Didn't Shuhei already say that TLG wasn't as expensive to make as people thought?
We're finally getting the sequel to that Uncharted review thread
ScientificPizza
Banned
I can't think of a reviewer that I consistently disagree with more than Phil Kollar so I'll wait to hear more impressions from people
Even in their own time Ico and Colossus had divisive control setups. The main criticism here seems to be that Last Guardian feels surprisingly similar to those two games... which is what I always expected. From the footage I'm seeing, TLG is going to be a straight-up environmental puzzle adventure game, probably extremely similar to Ico in structure. I don't know what else anybody might be expecting? Uncharted with a little boy and dog-griffin? If so, that's just not going to be the case at all.
I've been one to criticize the control schemes of older Japanese 3D games: I think the original Metal Gear Solid control scheme is a relic of the 2D era and should have been re-done as early as MGS3. I'll admit Resident Evil 4 has dated controls despite that excellently-balanced game depending on those controls. I also really don't want to go back to tank controls for RE games. I find the PS2-era Grand Theft Auto games (and to an extent GTA IV) to be basically unplayable because of their controls. I think Monster Hunter feels weird. But there are/were games from that era with controls I think would still feel perfectly fine today. Ico and Colossus have what I would consider to be a perfectly workable dual analog control scheme, it's just that the button placement and character animations throw some people off.
I've been one to criticize the control schemes of older Japanese 3D games: I think the original Metal Gear Solid control scheme is a relic of the 2D era and should have been re-done as early as MGS3. I'll admit Resident Evil 4 has dated controls despite that excellently-balanced game depending on those controls. I also really don't want to go back to tank controls for RE games. I find the PS2-era Grand Theft Auto games (and to an extent GTA IV) to be basically unplayable because of their controls. I think Monster Hunter feels weird. But there are/were games from that era with controls I think would still feel perfectly fine today. Ico and Colossus have what I would consider to be a perfectly workable dual analog control scheme, it's just that the button placement and character animations throw some people off.
People defending what they haven't had the chance to play yet. Plus...it's Polygon. Can't possibly be telling the truth. smh
HueyFreeman
Banned
I guess I'm more saying it's too bad that we as a community always take the bait.
Spieler Eins
Member
They still can't make good controls even after a whole decade?
Legitimate concerns include buggy camera (The Verge) and Trico acting too real (Kotaku).
Neoleo2143
Member
So screw trying to utilize the medium's unique strengths to do what media has tried to pursue for centuries? Talk about a regressive attitude. Invoking emotion is the total point of media. It would be wise not to dismiss efforts to utilize unique aspects of this medium.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
2016 on a bumpersticker folks.
Portugeezer
Member
No need to be concerned. The game will get 7's and 8's and be a cult classic among gamers. Maybe people expect more with the 10 year development.
immortal-joe
Member
I can't help but feel that today's climate of reviewers would tear ICO and SOTC apart, regardless of fps or overall performance. More and more, doing things differently puts you under scrutiny.
I wish more games attempted the physics-based movement of those games; the way Wander would trip, swerve and stumble after jumps and changes in direction provided an amazing, unique "game feel" not provided anywhere else.
I can't wait for The Last Guardian to bring this feel back and somehow replicate it in the movement of the creature and the child as they navigate the world together.
I wish more games attempted the physics-based movement of those games; the way Wander would trip, swerve and stumble after jumps and changes in direction provided an amazing, unique "game feel" not provided anywhere else.
I can't wait for The Last Guardian to bring this feel back and somehow replicate it in the movement of the creature and the child as they navigate the world together.
Yeah, this one should have been closed. Kotaku and The Verge have criticisms too, but they didn't get their own threads.
Ueda games are more then just games for fans. They are incredible experiences. Of course not everyone will agree (or should agree for that matter).
This is one thing that GAF does all the time. If a dev does something in one or two games, it's automatically something you cannot criticize them for according to some fans. "Of course a Bethesda game runs like shit and its filled to capacity with irritating and gamebreaking bugs! Yeah, Souls games have bad cameras and a relentlessly dull poison swamp, it's part of their charm!" If a company does something a couple times in games you like, you don't need to defend it. People are so defensive about potential changes to games/franchises they like, they argue against improving it in many cases. Just because Team ICO made a game with lurching-ass movement two gens ago, doesn't mean they shouldn't do better now.
EatinOlives
Member
Way to miss his point. Steve is talking about tolerating both sides of the argument and you bold and reiterate only the one with you personally agree with.
In 100% agreement with you on this one. I personally didn't care for ICO and only thought SotC was good because of the controls. Like yeah, everything is beautiful and what not but the game plays like crap and if I have to fight the controls then that takes away my enjoyment.
If this has already been acknowledged why do you take issue with criticism of the controls? Naturally, people will not like awkward controls and may not even get used to them. And that's perfectly understandable if that's their opinion.
You're ignoring the fact that a lot of people feel that the movement and control adds to the game. They're defending it because they like it.
Not everything needs to change because you think it should change.