Its been nearly 2 weeks since the announcement. I could understand right after even a week after but people confused after all that time with ample impressions, a massive faq, the announcement in 4k its just totally ingenious at this point on this site with "hardcore" gamers who are supposedly smarter than the general public.
Sony's marketing and communication about the PS4 Pro
- Thread starter leng jai
- Start date
description from Norwegian retailer:
PlayStation 4 Pro is a entertainment system that delivers improved performance! Enjoy impressive 4K UHF resolution and HDR-teknology in compatible games.
- Improved graphics
- 1 TB harddrive
- 4K and HDR support
The message is pretty straightforward, but for an enthusiast forum who wants to know everything about the system it can be a little confusing.
PlayStation 4 Pro is a entertainment system that delivers improved performance! Enjoy impressive 4K UHF resolution and HDR-teknology in compatible games.
- Improved graphics
- 1 TB harddrive
- 4K and HDR support
The message is pretty straightforward, but for an enthusiast forum who wants to know everything about the system it can be a little confusing.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'd be curious to hear how retailers are selling the Pro to existing PS4 owners who aren't the typical GAFfer.
Are you selling it on "every game coming out from here on will look better"? Because "Some of your existing games may or may not be patched to look a bit better" isn't a strong argument for the extra $100.
FalsettoVibe
Member
Thanks.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Most console gamers don't buy new hardware with the goal of running old games better.
DangerMouse
Member
This.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
It's simple really. Here's a new better ps4 you want that or the original. Boom
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Spot on.
But this is also the first time hardware iterations have happened that required existing software be fully supported while the old hardware was still the target platform. Naturally, there will be customers who have already amassed large libraries on OG PS4.
It could potentially hard to upsell them to a Pro if their already existing large library of games may only have a small portion of it improved by the upgrade.
Hence the conundrum. NEW games are the real selling point, which theoretically makes it tricky to sell a Pro to existing owners who have large libraries.
There's "confusion" because the purpose of upgrading just seems incredibly nebulous.
Why should I buy a PS4 Pro?
"Games might possibly run with more stable framerates, or have higher resolutions!"
Which games?
"Some of them. To be determined."
How much will framerate and resolution be imrpoved?
"To some extent, depending on the game."
A lot of the games I like run at 30 FPS - will I be able to play my old favorites at 60FPS?
"Probably not - but who knows?!"
Why should I buy a PS4 Pro?
"Games might possibly run with more stable framerates, or have higher resolutions!"
Which games?
"Some of them. To be determined."
How much will framerate and resolution be imrpoved?
"To some extent, depending on the game."
A lot of the games I like run at 30 FPS - will I be able to play my old favorites at 60FPS?
"Probably not - but who knows?!"
StrongBlackVine
Banned
The tendency make simple things so complicated is what keeps this place going. The drama never ends.
Brad Grenz
Member
It's a bit ironic his complaint about the E3 conference Sony did was that it wasn't informational enough for him, and yet he managed to absorb almost nothing from a purely informational PlayStation Meeting.
Games from pro launch moving forward will all look / perform better.
Select few already released titles will get patched improvements.
I can't tell if people are purposely trying to complicate it.
Hey man whats 3.75x the cost to get close to double of the performance fuck laws of diminished returns. PC all the way bro.
somebody tell me what a 1500 dollar pc would be exactly for a bump in performance
How much better will games perform?
"Hard to say, but they will definitely perform better in some fashion."
How much better will games look?
"They'll look better, but I can't show you because our demo stations are running on 1080P sets without HDR."
----------------
There is definitely some advantage to owning a PS4 Pro, but I think Sony is in a position where it's difficult to express or demonstrate what that advantage might be in any concrete terms.
wapplew
Member
Because Sony don't control how everyone decide to use the extra power. so there is no concrete answer.
i'm not confused by the ps4 pro, but i think sony may be in the wrong mindset with it. it remains to be seen what the scorpio is, but if microsoft drops the xb1 branding for it and basically claims it's part of a new and final generation, it could leave sony looking like they lost the plot a bit with how dedicated hardware will be treated moving forward.
my biggest question about the pro is also the one that ultimately doesn't matter. i just wonder who thought the design was a good idea. the machine looks like a joke someone would make about the ps4 neo being a 1.5 upgrade by literally adding 50% more slats.
my biggest question about the pro is also the one that ultimately doesn't matter. i just wonder who thought the design was a good idea. the machine looks like a joke someone would make about the ps4 neo being a 1.5 upgrade by literally adding 50% more slats.
Sony did not make that clear in the conference. I still don't know where they officially clarified that.
Should've been in the conference at least, and should be communicated much better. Burying it in there isn't exactly great. And the wording is confusing:
"Following PS4 Pro’s launch on November 10 in North America, virtually all new PS4 game releases moving forward will be able to take advantage of PS4 Pro capabilities on day one, or in some cases shortly after launch via a downloadable update."
"Virtually." "Will be ABLE to." "In some cases."
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It seems to me that the benefits of the PS4 Pro are least obvious to people who play games on different platforms. Willfully obtuse indeed.
prag16
Banned
Eh, it seems pretty clear to me. And that's from someone who doesn't give a shit about this console. (Blatant, shameless cash grab that Sony knows their fans will eat right up... great way to keep that $400 MSRP going throughout the generation.... My PC and original PS4 will serve me fine... pretty surprising to me how hot in the pants everyone seems to be to shitcan their original PS4 after less than 3 years, but I digress...)
Some of the nonsense flying around here lately, if I didn't know better, would seem to be skating very close to concern trolling territory.
Some of the nonsense flying around here lately, if I didn't know better, would seem to be skating very close to concern trolling territory.
Sony has control over their 1st party studios. I don't think Microsoft has adequately made the case for Scorpio, but they have said that all their in-house games will run at native 4K. That's at least a concrete and achievable commitment.
How much better will Sony games look or run on PS4 Pro? Will Gran Turismo Sport run at 4K? Will Horizon Zero Dawn run at 60 FPS? How will God of War be improved? Who knows?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think the casuals are pretty well acquainted with "iPhone and iPhone S" model, and since Sony pretty much directly ripped off Apple's font for the "Pro", they must feel the same way.
For making a good-sized break from the traditional console model, Sony has been comparatively honest considering the type of promises they made made at the beginning of the last generation.
For making a good-sized break from the traditional console model, Sony has been comparatively honest considering the type of promises they made made at the beginning of the last generation.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Its worded that way so people dont have fits if a dev chooses to just be straight with a ps4 OG game and thats it. We all see manu devs are happy with whats being given and giving them the choice is key instead of dictating.
Dr.brain64
Member
I don't mind if no 3rd party mods their games for ps4 pro - the fact that Sony will with its games is enough for me to justify the buy. It'll be the same reasoning with the scorpio.
This!
This!
wapplew
Member
Game have to run at 1080p minimum and higher or more stable frame rate than PS4, that's the only commitment from Sony I think.
Sony say improvement is game by game basis, I think that's pretty clear.
You can add "who knows" to everything not happen yet, Will crackdown run at 60fps without cloud? Will Scalebound get Scorpio patch? Will Forza 7 run on ultra setting? Who knows.
Brad Grenz
Member
"In the launch window". We'll see if that even comes to pass.
Horizon is a 30fps game. All three are 1080p on PS4 so we can probably assume checkerboard 4K on Pro.
Yes. So it's unclear at the moment what concrete value the pro will bring, since it depends on so many factors.
thelastword
Banned
Blows my mind as well. I think every time somebody declares they have no idea who the .Pro caters too, what benefits it has for 1080p users or 4k users or that Sony has not been clear on it's message with the .Pro, a baby kitten does.....
Stillmatic
Member
You're over complicating things for no reason. All Pro games will run either 4k native or 4k via checkerboard rendering. Frame rates is up to devs like it's always been in the history of gaming. 1080p games get down-sampling and better visuals/performance based on whatever devs want to do with the power. It's really simple.
How much better? How long is a piece of string?
Seems clear to me.
Hawk269
Member
In any group there are a certain percentage of them that would be classified as idiots. No different here on Gaf...we have our share of idiots like any other forum.
Gradly
Member
Yes this is very clear from what we read and heard but as long as the Pro isn't released yet we won't have a difintive answer. The issue is actually the case with older "unpatched" games, they are the ones that making the confusion, at least to me, and the reason is that I can't wrap my head about the idea there won't be even a slight improved performance, few more frames, less drop in frames etc. Why I'm thinking about this? Actually because we saw a slight improvement on games running on Xbox One S and they are already released unpatched games so why it isn't the case with Pro?! If it wasn't for this I wouldn't be thinking about it at all, anyway, this is only will be answered when Digital Foundary got there hands on it
ITS not unclear. How is this all or nothing? They are clear. Lmao they used language like "virtually all" that means more than half and closer to all games will have additional support after the console is launched. Like this is the obtuse people are talking about.
Like how concrete do you want? There arent many factors. They set a bare minimum has to be as good as a regular ps4 game and with a bit more dev time you can do even more.
Seriously what do you want them to tell you?
Yep you are right about that.
"Improvement on a game by game basis" is not inherently bad. The problem is that nobody knows which games will be improved or in what fashion they will be improved. There's probably about a dozen games that have had their enhancements explicitly detailed, and it's a guessing game for everything else.
If you're going to launch more powerful hardware for a mid-generation refresh, then you really ought to have an extensive list of what titles will be enhanced and what those enhancements will be. I can't bring myself to pull the trigger on a PS4 Pro mostly because you have to buy it on faith that improvements will be both significant and perceptible on a 1080P set.
They have a list of games so far confirmed. Lmao like seriously where are you getting your information from? And there will be more the launch is 2 months away.
They don't have to tell me anything, but the advantages of getting it aren't clear at the moment. I don't know how you fail to see that. It's a game by game basis... Some games have different modes... Some games will be patched later... Devs may choose to do nothing, etc. It's not clear to me if I'll care about Mafia 3 on the Pro as opposed to a regular PS4, for example. Being "at least as good" is a horrible sell to someone who already has a PS4 and doesn't want to pay 400 bucks for something "as good or sometimes maybe better if you buy the right games and have the right TV"
It's clear what the product is, but the product itself isn't clear. I, as a customer, cannot currently tell if I will benefit from the product. I most likely will, sure, but I cannot say in what way.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
New more power PS4. Done.
It's like asking what can the iPhone 7 plus do that the iPhone 7 can't.
Marty Chinn
Member
It's funny people say it's clear but then you have people spreading false info like this post.
Mafia 3 comes out a month before the pro.
Listen you dont have to buy it thats the beauty of it. All your games work. I dont understand all the mistrust about this console. Sony has been extremely honest about their hardware this gen ive seen the demos which you can find easily and watch on a 4k screen. Or read that massive faq that explains everything. At this point you and others are splitting hairs to the point where your confused that its okay to not get the system and still be happy with your system.
What's the difference between 4K native and 4K checkerboard? Most people have seen neither, and most people don't have a 4K set anyway so it's almost irrelevant. If you don't have a 4K set, then how much better do down-sampled games look on 1080P? Is it worth buying a new console for, or paying an extra $100?
Frame rate is up to the developer. Ok, so then which developers are opting for 60 FPS?
The PS4 Pro gambles on the idea that people will pay extra for really nebulous and ill-defined performance advantages that cannot be easily demonstrated. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. As someone who owns a PS4 I have a hard time seeing the point, but consumers who don't already have an XB1/PS4 might pull the trigger just for the hell of it.
wapplew
Member
Sure, if you are uncertain, don't pull the trigger. 2 months away, we will get more information, maybe wait for benchmark or DF comparison.
We have no idea how PS4 will perform 2 month before launch too.
Sad Affleck
Member
We'll know soon enough. The problem with technologies like VR and HDR is that you can't show off their benefits through a normal stream or image. Explaining the difference between the regular PS4 and the Pro is also not easy because developers will use that power in different ways.
RichiRamjag
Member
I'm getting a 1080 to replace my 970 so I can run mount and blade better, bruh!
Sarcasm of course
It's not that big a conundrum imo. People want the latest advances going forward. Neither of us could say with any certainly of course, but in my history of customer support some time back, I can't remember a customer ever worried about improvements of older content. This is most likely why it isn't a large focus. Customers are simple beasts and as someone who's spoken to thousands, that convo you listed below rarely ever goes that far.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
That simple?
"Here's a new better PS4 you want that or the original?"
"I have the original already, what does this one do better?"
"It will make newer PS4 games look better, especially on a 4K TV"
"I don't have a 4K TV"
"Well it'll make games look a bit better on a 1080p TV too!"
"Even my existing games?"
"Well, some of them"
"Oh, which ones?"
"The ones that those developers decide to patch to take advantage of the Pro. It's all in the FAQ on the US PlayStation blog"
*customer walks out of the store*
Yup. Simplicity.
StoppedInTracks
Member
It's not "pseudo 4K" but "4Kinda".