Sony's marketing and communication about the PS4 Pro

Sure, if you are uncertain, don't pull the trigger. 2 months away, we will get more information, maybe wait for benchmark or DF comparison.
We have no idea how PS4 will perform 2 month before launch too.

I am definitely not buying in the launch window. Not with as little info as they've detailed so far. I am not opposed to the idea of "refresh" console models being released, but if enhancements are mild-to-moderate and also contingent on developer support then I have a hard time signing on.

They have a list of games so far confirmed. Lmao like seriously where are you getting your information from? And there will be more the launch is 2 months away.

How many games have had their enhancements explicitly detailed? I'm getting my information from the press conference on September 7, which is more than most consumers will be using to make a judgment call.
 
That simple?

"Here's a new better PS4 you want that or the original?"

"I have the original already, what does this one do better?"

"It will make newer PS4 games look better, especially on a 4K TV"

"I don't have a 4K TV"

"Well it'll make games look a bit better on a 1080p TV too!"

"Even my existing games?"

"Well, some of them"

"Oh, which ones?"

"The ones that those developers decide to patch to take advantage of the Pro. It's all in the FAQ on the US PlayStation blog"

*customer walks out of the store*

Yup. Simplicity.

I mean that doesn't sound that complicated to me
 
can't remember if I read it here or somewhere
but they are introducing some form of buffer tech that makes the checkerboard 4K upscale "free" right?

I think what some may want to know is this
if I have a 4K TV, is the game now better with better visuals and 60fps at 1080p, then upgraded to 4K via checkerboard effect? or is it

if I have a 1080p TV, is the game now better with the upgrade to 4K and then supersampled to 1080p?

okay for some reason this sounds rather chicken or egg T_T
 
It's a bit ironic his complaint about the E3 conference Sony did was that it wasn't informational enough for him, and yet he managed to absorb almost nothing from a purely informational PlayStation Meeting.

So, what are you actually saying here? That Jeff was sloppy and didn't do his job, that he is biased for some reason or that he's dumb and couldn't figure it out?
 
It's stunning to me how people on GAF have seemed to be almost deliberately obfuscating things for themselves

Well there was a post yesterday from someone who didn't understand why they couldn't just play their Xbox one games on their external HDD on someone else's Xbox without getting online first.

So is it a question of deliberately obfuscating or honestly just not understanding the technology and how it works?
 
That simple?

"Here's a new better PS4 you want that or the original?"

"I have the original already, what does this one do better?"

"It will make newer PS4 games look better, especially on a 4K TV"

"I don't have a 4K TV"

"Well it'll make games look a bit better on a 1080p TV too!"

"Even my existing games?"

"Well, some of them"

"Oh, which ones?"

"The ones that those developers decide to patch to take advantage of the Pro. It's all in the FAQ on the US PlayStation blog"

*customer walks out of the store*

Yup. Simplicity.

I don't think Sony will be very worried about existing PS4 owners without a 4K TV or a PSVR pre-order not replacing their old PS4 ... This product was not made for them.
 
That simple?

"Here's a new better PS4 you want that or the original?"

"I have the original already, what does this one do better?"

"It will make newer PS4 games look better, especially on a 4K TV"

"I don't have a 4K TV"

"Well it'll make games look a bit better on a 1080p TV too!"

"Even my existing games?"

"Well, some of them"

"Oh, which ones?"

"The ones that those developers decide to patch to take advantage of the Pro. It's all in the FAQ on the US PlayStation blog"

*customer walks out of the store*

Yup. Simplicity.
Y'all trying way too hard. Keep at it tho
 
There's "confusion" because the purpose of upgrading just seems incredibly nebulous.
If you've got to air quote the word, maybe just find a better word for what you're talking about. It's not really confusion that you've described, it's just questions that remain unanswered at this time, as they often do months before a new console is released (or any newly announced product months from release). I'm not sure if I'm buying a Pro yet, but it's not because I'm "confused" about the product at all: it's a new console upgrade, slightly more incremental than typical generational upgrades but also with a much better forward/backward compatibility offering than most generational leaps manage. As we approach the release of the Pro, I'm sure there will be more info released on titles that will take advantage of the additional hw power, providing more examples to determine if the upgrade is worth the purchase. It'll be enough for some, not enough for others. Anyone truly "confused" by the time the product reaches stores aren't typical console buyers in the first place.
 
I think when you get down to the basics it's pretty simple.

There's a new, more powerful PS4 available. It runs the same games with better image quality and smoother framerates.

If that interests you, get it, if not, stick with the old PS4, which is now cheaper and is not being replaced. You don't have to get the Pro.

This is the idea at its most basic.

The idea of the mid-cycle refresh is a decent way to address the users who felt the PS3 was getting a little long in the tooth half way through its lifecycle without fragmenting the market.

Yes, you can get into the details at which point it does get a little more complicated, but that's the case with pretty much any piece of technology. Just look at some of the threads discussing the merits of different HDR TV's, the iPhone 7, etc.

Where I think Sony have stumbled is in providing content gives people more of an idea what to expect. They're hamstrung to a degree, since most folks can't see HDR, but I'd wager most of the people getting a Pro this holiday are going to be playing on 1080p sets. Most of us are fairly hardcore gamers, and a few more videos similar to the 30 second Paragon PS4/PS4 Pro comparison trailer would go a long way. There's definitely interest in this sort of breakdown, as evidenced by the nearly 350K views on Digital Foundry's Pro Hand's on video has vs most of the other videos on their channel.
 
This whole confusion of this situation honestly flabbergasts me. Here it is in a nutshell:

For $100 over the base PS4 price you get more than 2x the power and 2x the HD. It Will support 4k games. Games will also likely perform better (graphics/framerate, etc) on 1080p tv's when using the Pro. All games starting soonish (before Pro launch) will be mandated to have a "Pro mode" to take advantage of that increased power for 1080p/4K tv's. Some select past games will see Pro support. No exclusive Pro games and all multiplayer game modes will be on both Pro/base PS4.

Like, that's basically it at the moment and i'm having a hard time grasping why this is so hard to grasp. Are you happy with your current PS4 at the moment? That's great, as this is an option for potential new owners or those that want the option of a more powerful PS4. The vitriol over this makes little sense when this is completely optional.
 
I don't think Sony will be very worried about existing PS4 owners without a 4K TV or a PSVR pre-order not replacing their old PS4 ... This product was not made for them.
It's not? How many people were holding out on buying a PS4 because of the specs and not the price at this point in the life cycle?
 
That simple?

"Here's a new better PS4 you want that or the original?"

"I have the original already, what does this one do better?"

"It will make newer PS4 games look better, especially on a 4K TV"

"I don't have a 4K TV"

"Well it'll make games look a bit better on a 1080p TV too!"

"Even my existing games?"

"Well, some of them"

"Oh, which ones?"

"The ones that those developers decide to patch to take advantage of the Pro. It's all in the FAQ on the US PlayStation blog"

*customer walks out of the store*

Yup. Simplicity.

That sounds pretty simple actually. Even though you went out of your way to make it sound as complicated and unapproachable as possible.
 
This whole confusion of this situation honestly flabbergasts me. Here it is in a nutshell:

For $100 over the base PS4 price you get more than 2x the power and 2x the HD. It Will support 4k games. Games will also likely perform better (graphics/framerate, etc) on 1080p tv's when using the Pro. All games starting soonish (before Pro launch) will be mandated to have a "Pro mode" to take advantage of that increased power for 1080p/4K tv's. Some select past games will see Pro support. No exclusive Pro games and all multiplayer game modes will be on both Pro/base PS4.

Like, that's basically it at the moment and i'm having a hard time grasping why this is so hard to grasp. Are you happy with your current PS4 at the moment? That's great, as this is an option for potential new owners or those that want the option of a more powerful PS4. The vitriol over this makes little sense when this is completely optional.
It's very simple. 1 paragraph sums it up.
 
Not making any difference for us in retail. We've been able to clearly communicate to our customers what so many on here seem to be willingly obtuse about. Preorders have been very solid, our in store Sony rep is already really excited about the response we've had from both new buyers and existing PS4 owners. We've been able to talk to our customers very clearly about what the product is, and there's been a positive response.

It's stunning to me how people on GAF have seemed to be almost deliberately obfuscating things for themselves, when the information has been communicated with almost agonizing specificity by Sony, and then sources like Digital Foundry provide greater clarity and specifics in technical respects.

Seriously. Blows my fucking mind.
This. After the Sony keynote all questions had been answered and I know what the PS4 pro would do for my as a 1080p owner and what the PS4 pro will do for people with a 4K TV.

Sony was really clear about 4K and how it is "archived" in their AAA titles and that they are not native 4K but being pushed to 4K by their upscaling solution.
 
People seem to be dismissive but if you just look at the Witcher 3 not having a patch thread, you'll see people generally surprised that games need to be patched in order to take advantage of the hardware and that it's not automatically faster like a PC.
 
Playstation Pro threads are starting to resemble No Man's Sky threads. Some people asking questions about the product and others talking them down.

I like the idea of console upgrades. The PS4 Pro is a solid product, it will be sold at an excellent price point and it will offer upgraded visuals compared to every other console in the market.

The messaging around it wasn't so clear and Sony's presentation focused heavily on 4K and HDR, only talking briefly about how the exprerience would be enhanced for 1080p TV owners. Iterative console upgrades are a new concept and Sony could have done a better job showing off the differences between old and new. A lot of professional journalists expressed concern over the messaging so either they are all dumb and biased or there really was an issue that these professionals see that the average forum poster does not. Which is more likely?
 
If you've got to air quote the word, maybe just find a better word for what you're talking about. It's not really confusion that you've described, it's just questions that remain unanswered at this time, as they often do months before a new console is released (or any newly announced product months from release). I'm not sure if I'm buying a Pro yet, but it's not because I'm "confused" about the product at all: it's a new console upgrade, slightly more incremental than typical generational upgrades but also with a much better forward/backward compatibility offering than most generational leaps manage. As we approach the release of the Pro, I'm sure there will be more info released on titles that will take advantage of the additional hw power, providing more examples to determine if the upgrade is worth the purchase. It'll be enough for some, not enough for others. Anyone truly "confused" by the time the product reaches stores aren't typical console buyers in the first place.

"Confusion" is definitely not the right word. "Apprehensiveness" or "Uncertainty" would have been better. At the same time, I think it's fair to say that people are somewhat ambivalent about what advantages the PS4 Pro might provide because Sony is incapable of demonstrating those advantages through traditional media distribution. I don't know what 4K Native looks like, or what 4K Checkerboard looks like. Even if they could promise that every past or future game would be pushed to 60 FPS, how many people would notice an appreciable difference?
 
To be fair, OP sort of has a point. Sony had to make sure that they didn't make the base PS4 seem like yesterday's console (because they still have to sell the things), and as a result, their Pro messaging wasn't as clear as it could have been. There are definitely some folks who still need an info sheet (or two).

The good news is for a lot of people, the messaging isn't muddy. It's fairly easy to communicate what the Pro will do, how older games will be handled, what HDR will be, and how future games will benefit from the Pro. See Abdiel's post for more on this. Outside of dedicated communities, I think overall word of mouth on the Pro will be positive due to the price. It will be viewed as a newer and better PS4 that's sold at the same price as the 'old' PS4.

Note: I think the Pro has the same problem as PSVR i.e. You need to see it in person for it to make sense. That's not marketing nonsense, that's just the reality of releasing a product that communicates it's value through a visual presentation.
 
That sounds pretty simple actually. Even though you went out of your way to make it sound as complicated and unapproachable as possible.
I like how the guy walks out of the store in disgust at the end because he was mentally exhausted after a ten second conversation.
 
Well they certainly didn't do a good job of convincing me. I even have a 4k tv and i see no reason to own a pro tbh.
 
converting The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt from a full HD game into a 4K one would be too much of a time and resource-consuming process - CD Projekt.

Stuff like this is sending mixed messages as well even if it's just CDP saying they can't be bothered doing an upgrade unless it's native 4K.
 
Not making any difference for us in retail. We've been able to clearly communicate to our customers what so many on here seem to be willingly obtuse about. Preorders have been very solid, our in store Sony rep is already really excited about the response we've had from both new buyers and existing PS4 owners. We've been able to talk to our customers very clearly about what the product is, and there's been a positive response.

It's stunning to me how people on GAF have seemed to be almost deliberately obfuscating things for themselves, when the information has been communicated with almost agonizing specificity by Sony, and then sources like Digital Foundry provide greater clarity and specifics in technical respects.

Seriously. Blows my fucking mind.
Not that stunning. ;)
 
I dunno, I've seen customers walk out confused over simpler stuff.
"Hello, would you like to preorder a PS4 pro?"
"What's that?"
"A more powerful version of the PS4 that will play all of the new releases and some older titles faster and sharper."
"MY BRAIN OH GOD I CANT HANDLE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION!"
*customer runs out of store*
 
Everything sounds pretty straightforward to me. I'll give my honest opinion on why people are confused and it's got nothing to do with have much clarity Sony have provided on the issue. It's simply because of the Xbox Scorpio 12 months down the line. It's actually people going out there way to cause confusion knowing full well about the details of the PS4 Pro.

There wasn't this much confusion when the generation of PS3 and 360 launched. When games made the move to HD, games still looked better on sub hd compared to the previous gen but HD tele's showed the real difference, even if it was 720p upscaled. Why didn't that cause any confusion? Nothing has changed. One console has more power therefore shows that at a higher resolution or and higher textures, better lighting etc at 1080p. What exactly is the confusion?
 
"Hello, would you like to preorder a PS4 pro?"
"What's that?"
"A more powerful version of the PS4 that will play all of the new releases and some older titles faster and sharper."
"MY BRAIN OH GOD I CANT HANDLE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION!"
*customer runs out of store*

LOL
 
"Hello, would you like to preorder a PS4 pro?"
"What's that?"
"A more powerful version of the PS4 that will play all of the new releases and some older titles faster and sharper."
"MY BRAIN OH GOD I CANT HANDLE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION!"
*customer runs out of store*

So yep, never worked in retail. Let alone videogame retail.
 
"Confusion" is definitely not the right word. "Apprehensiveness" or "Uncertainty" would have been better. At the same time, I think it's fair to say that people are somewhat ambivalent about what advantages the PS4 Pro might provide because Sony is incapable of demonstrating those advantages through traditional media distribution. I don't know what 4K Native looks like, or what 4K Checkerboard looks like. Even if they could promise that every past or future game would be pushed to 60 FPS, how many people would notice an appreciable difference?
None of this is particularly unprecedented, it's par for course at this stage of an unreleased product's lifecycle. We had similar issues when the first "HD" consoles were coming to market well before most of the market had real HD TVs and traditional media wasn't fully up to speed either. The question of what improvements are appreciable to the consumer always has to be addressed at the individual level - it's different for everyone.

leng jai said:
converting The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt from a full HD game into a 4K one would be too much of a time and resource-consuming process - CD Projekt.

Stuff like this is sending mixed messages as well even if it's just CDP saying they can't be bothered doing an upgrade unless it's native 4K.
The message is no different from a dev saying they're not remastering an already released game for a brand new platform. The message is no more mixed about how new hardware gets software specific to its capabilities than any previous console transition. Some older titles might get a refresh on the new hardware, some won't.
 
Not making any difference for us in retail. We've been able to clearly communicate to our customers what so many on here seem to be willingly obtuse about. Preorders have been very solid, our in store Sony rep is already really excited about the response we've had from both new buyers and existing PS4 owners. We've been able to talk to our customers very clearly about what the product is, and there's been a positive response.

It's stunning to me how people on GAF have seemed to be almost deliberately obfuscating things for themselves, when the information has been communicated with almost agonizing specificity by Sony, and then sources like Digital Foundry provide greater clarity and specifics in technical respects.

Seriously. Blows my fucking mind.

A signal in the noise.

Thank you.
 
I'm so CONFUSED!!!

said no one who watched the conference, maybe seen the FAQ, has a hole in their arse and has $399 available to spend on a swanky new PlayStation console...

Confused.As.Fuck
 
Abdiel apparently has, and he posted that he is having no trouble communicating what the PS4 Pro is to potential customers. Anecdotes how do they work?

How many threads have we had about the stupid shit we've heard store employees saying to the consumers? Why are we having faith that all retailers will be able to communicate what it is clearly and accurately?
 
I don't really think the marketing for it has been confusing so much as people are taken aback that a system not targeted towards them isn't targeted towards them, hence features that the system is pushing that are quite easy to understand for the target audience fly way over their head.

I'm not really sure where the confusion honestly lays. Sony's conference was pretty terrible. And there were a couple of things that were a bit confusing (paid patches initially due to mistranslation) but all in all, the system and what it does was and is extremely straightforward.
 
How many threads have we had about the stupid shit we've heard store employees saying to the consumers? Why are we having faith that all retailers will be able to communicate what it is clearly and accurately?

Employees say stupid shit to consumers about all sorts of things. Employees used to tell people that PS2s would play Dreamcast games. Did that lead to widespread confusion? You guys don't give consumers enough credit. Your average consumer can figure out which iPhone and iPad they want despite there being a wide range of options. For the most part they know what they do and don't want and it doesn't take rocket science for them to figure that out. "It's a better PS4" is pretty much all most will need to know to know if they want to shell out the extra $100 or not. It's really not that deep. IF someone is already at the point where they are asking the clerk for information on the difference between the PS4 Pro and the PS4 Slim, then they are pretty much in the bag, even if they decide the differences don't sound great enough to warrant the extra $100. Sony is okay with that, I'm sure.
 
None of this is particularly unprecedented, it's par for course at this stage of an unreleased product's lifecycle. We had similar issues when the first "HD" consoles were coming to market well before most of the market had real HD TVs and traditional media wasn't fully up to speed either. The question of what improvements are appreciable to the consumer always has to be addressed at the individual level - it's different for everyone.

HD consoles were a pretty clear generational leap though. Even if you were watching YouTube videos in 240/360P, you could pretty clearly see that Gears of War looked amazing compared to PS2/Xbox games. You didn't really even need a new monitor/TV to see that jump. The difference between PS4 and PS4Pro games is much harder to communicate across current media.
 
I don't really think the marketing for it has been confusing so much as people are taken aback that a system not targeted towards them isn't targeted towards them, hence features that the system is pushing that are quite easy to understand for the target audience fly way over their head.

I'm not really sure where the confusion honestly lays. Sony's conference was pretty terrible. And there were a couple of things that were a bit confusing (paid patches initially due to mistranslation) but all in all, the system and what it does was and is extremely straightforward.

I don't believe it's confusing for true enthusiast gamers like the ones who frequent this forum, but it's also not as clear cut as many in here claim it to be either. The only part I'm still tossing up is to whom this console is actually aimed at.

Don't take that as me saying it won't sell, I'm sure it will, I'm just saying, I"m not sure who this console is specifically aimed at. Many assume it's non-PS4 owners? Is it? Is there a really sizeable amount of non-PS4 owning hardcore gamers? I would have thought this console was more likely aimed at existing launch window owners who want the premium experience and a VR boost.
 
Employees say stupid shit to consumers about all sorts of things. Employees used to tell people that PS2s would play Dreamcast games. Did that lead to widespread confusion? You guys don't give consumers enough credit. For the most part they know what they do and don't want and it doesn't take rocket science for them to figure that out. "It's a better PS4" is pretty much all most will need to know to know if they want to shell out the extra $100 or not. It's really not that deep.

I think we're entering unprecedented territory here though so we can't assume it's going to be as simple to grasp for everyone. Honestly, I think at a high level, the gist of it is pretty easy to understand. I think once you start diving into the details, that's where it can get confusing. So the less you want to know about it, the easier it is to understand. So I guess if we don't give the consumer enough credit to actually dive into understanding what their $400 purchase is getting them, then ya, they should be fine.
 
I don't believe it's confusing for true enthusiast gamers like the ones who frequent this forum, but it's also not as clear cut as many in here claim it to be either. The only part I'm still tossing up is to whom this console is actually aimed at.

Don't take that as me saying it won't sell, I'm sure it will, I'm just saying, I"m not sure who this console is specifically aimed at. Many assume it's non-PS4 owners? Is it? Is there a really sizeable amount of non-PS4 owning hardcore gamers? I would have thought this console was more likely aimed at existing launch window owners who want the premium experience and a VR boost.

Sony said in the reveal that they are aiming at non-PS4 owners and power users. People who have 4K sets but maybe haven't bought a console yet. People who haven't upgraded from the PS3/360 generation but see this "premium" SKU on the shelf and decide they want the better version, even if they don't specifically know why it's better, or maybe they plan on getting a 4K tv soon and want to purchase it. I don't think upgraders are the target of this right now, though Im sure there will be some overlap. I think it's just a matter of Sony having that premium SKU on the market. I doubt they are worried about any kind of confusion turning a potential consumer off of the Playstation brand completely.
 
"Hello, would you like to preorder a PS4 pro?"
"What's that?"
"A more powerful version of the PS4 that will play all of the new releases and some older titles faster and sharper."
"MY BRAIN OH GOD I CANT HANDLE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION!"
*customer runs out of store*
I laughed more than I should at this lol
 
I don't believe it's confusing for true enthusiast gamers like the ones who frequent this forum, but it's also not as clear cut as many in here claim it to be either. The only part I'm still tossing up is to whom this console is actually aimed at.

Don't take that as me saying it won't sell, I'm sure it will, I'm just saying, I"m not sure who this console is specifically aimed at. Many assume it's non-PS4 owners? Is it? Is there a really sizeable amount of non-PS4 owning hardcore gamers? I would have thought this console was more likely aimed at existing launch window owners who want the premium experience and a VR boost.

It's aimed, as House mentioned, largely to prevent the console gamers who leave for PC mid-gen due to an increasing power difference. So, it's not aimed at new owners (though maybe it'll transition to that later in its life) but already existing PS4 owners and more specifically, the enthusiast crowd that can see the differences (especially at 1080p) that the console can provide.

And the aim of the console isn't large scale either, given that by my guesstimate of the FY results Sony released, Sony only aims to sell about 1 to 1.5 million units by March 2017.

I'm not really sure there is any communication issue or even an issue of who they are targeting given that information.
 
I think we're entering unprecedented territory here though so we can't assume it's going to be as simple to grasp for everyone. Honestly, I think at a high level, the gist of it is pretty easy to understand. I think once you start diving into the details, that's where it can get confusing. So the less you want to know about it, the easier it is to understand. So I guess if we don't give the consumer enough credit to actually dive into understanding what their $400 purchase is getting them, then ya, they should be fine.

We're really not. The general consumer is much more inclined to to purchase consumer electronics than they ever have been. People are upgrading phones or tablets every few years based on specs that they probably don't fully understand. They just know it's "better". Again, I don't think you guys are giving the general consumer if you think they are going to be confused to the point of paralysis. They will buy the SKU that they think is right for them, for a variety of reasons. Sony is just throwing another option out there that does little to hurt their overall brand.
 
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