WSJ reporter : Standard capacity of Switch game card is around 16GB

The norm?

PS4: 17 games over 40GB, largest is 74.27GB (Battlefield Bundle)
XBO: 18 games over 40GB, largest is 62.74GB (Halo: The Master Chielf Collection)

We have a list posted above showing that many games are ~16GB or lower, almost all are below 32GB, and everything is under 64GB. That would fall perfectly well within the likely ranges of production. I don't think it really matters anyway though, this device is going to missing a large amount of western AAA releases anyway.

A quick glance looks like the list doesn't include expansions/DLC? It lists Forza 6 as like 45GB. That seems really close to what it launched at without any of the car packs/tracks. Maybe not? I thought that was around the launch size.

I guess expansions would be handled by the internal memory vs the cart.
 
I don't think there will be technical limitations preventing pretty much any game from showing up on the Switch.

L2XWZEc.jpg
 
A quick glance looks like the list doesn't include expansions/DLC? It lists Forza 6 as like 45GB. That seems really close to what it launched at without any of the car packs/tracks. Maybe not? I thought that was around the launch size.

I guess expansions would be handled by the internal memory vs the cart.
They're game install sizes, no dlc, patches or expansions. And yes dlc, patches, etc would go to internal storage or memory card.
 
A quick glance looks like the list doesn't include expansions/DLC? It lists Forza 6 as like 45GB. That seems really close to what it launched at without any of the car packs/tracks. Maybe not? I thought that was around the launch size.

I guess expansions would be handled by the internal memory vs the cart.

Yeah, that stuff should be handled the same as it is for discs. It's stored on whatever your internal storage is. So they can patch and all that. So even if they only put 16GB on the cart, then they can have a day 1 patch to load the rest before the game starts. Like a lot of games these days do. In theory, this means games can be fairly huge without having to worry about all of the data on the cart itself. I imagine that Nintendo would like to keep the main game contained on the cart, but from what I know about Nintendo, I don't think they'll have a problem with day one patches.
 
It's like people can't read. Or at least I hope that's what's going on. If they CAN read and STILL don't understand, then they're in a far worse way than I feared.
 
I don't think there will be technical limitations preventing pretty much any game from showing up on the Switch.

That's very positive compared to the technical limitations of the Wii U.

It's like people can't read. Or at least I hope that's what's going on. If they CAN read and STILL don't understand, then they're in a far worse way than I feared.

They're probably thinking of Standard = Limit because of the Disc-based systems. PS4 and Xbox One have 50GB discs but we don't hear of 100GB discs.
 
Have we no idea if the Game Cards are proprietary from Nintendo in partnership with a major company? Couldn't that get costs down?

Also I'm not ruling out the very real possibility that each Game Card can store patch data and save data in its unused storage save for DLC. I don't think 16GB will be the max, but I do think Nintendo will crackdown on devs not properly compressing their games having most data being ate up by music alone, or releasing patches in the double digits of gigabytes.
 
I have a feeling that compressed audio/FMVs and optimized patches/DLC are gonna be the norm on the Switch, even if 16GB obviously isn't going to be the max card size.

Seriously, I'm pretty sure Blu-Rays and mandatory installs+big hard standard hard drives have caused devs to be lazy about file size optimisation. There are so, so many areas in modern games where devs could cut down game sizes by gigs with little noticeable quality reduction, if any, much of it being audio and video files.
 
What's cool with this kind of thread is that you can quickly see who's not reading anything before posting.

It's not the MAXIMUM size, just like you can put multiples blu-ray in a disc for bigger games, you can use cartridges with more size for the bigger games. 3DS used that. DS used that. N64 used that. It's nothing new for Nintendo.

And this doesn't mean anything for the third party.

If this is true then the starting, most common (ie. cheapest), size blu-ray is a full DVD size bigger than this "standard card size" and blu-rays are made in large quantities so they are probably cheaper to print.

How does it not mean anything for third parties? It's certainly more work getting a multiplatform game's size down that fits on DL blu-rays on both competing systems already when it comes to deciding if they were to do a port or when considering making a really large game for the Switch. Even a double-sized game card at 32GB would not be enough to equal a DL blu-ray, a supposed dev/publisher would need to go up to the third level card for 64GB.
How much more expensive will that be for the publisher to go up two levels in game cards? I doubt Nintendo does it for free.

I mean that's great and all that technically it can use bigger cards, but this is supposed to be half console. Once you get passed indies a lot of bigger devs these days go pretty big (in addition people also want JRPGs to include dual-audio so that's double the audio data) and getting bigger. And like all media, it obviously won't be a full 16 available either so it'll be a little less than that before devs even start filling it. Some games still use video cutscenes (1080p maybe 4K in a year or two with Pro/Scorpio patches), even the audio files will probably have to be more compressed if we're talking bigger games like the next "Xenoblade". That may not really a problem for the stereo portable side of the system but what about the plugged in side where people would like surround sound?

Not that this will prevent great games from being made or anything particularly by first parties and some co-productions will probably get discounts on bigger game cards or something.

all thoses people forgetting the slow inegal speed of optic media imply data replication.

I believe that was more because third party devs were building their games for both PS3 and 360 so third parties took the shortcut of apparently doubling some of the data to speed up load times even though technically the PS3's BD drive was faster being constant read, since it was easier to do since blu-rays are 25GB while DL DVDs were just 8.5GB.

I doubt they really do this as often anymore since both the PS4 and Xbone use the same discs, not to mention both now have standard hard drives and full installs.

But will this be like 3DS, where very FEW publishers and developers opt for larger sizes because cost?

Remember RE Revelations used a larger card and was going to have a premium because of it? Of course Capcom backed off, but in the time since - very few games have used larger cards to push more assets for games.

I fear most will just put what they can, into the smaller cards and call it a day.

This.
 
Reading through this thread is crazy because I don't understand why people are being all strange about this. If they want bigger they can get it. If they don't, that's fine, too. Not to mention that they may be able to work something out with Nintendo if a larger size is needed. On top of that, we have no real idea how much these carts cost. Sure, they're more expensive than blu-ray discs, but that doesn't matter since all of this stuff is negotiable in the first place. Best to leave this to the companies involved and not worry about it. I don't see how this will be a big problem for third parties anyway.
 
The bluray comment makes me think standard could actually be 25 GB, not 16, and that the reporter didn't know the correct size of a bluray and was told "it'll hold a bluray disc as standard".

What I'm more worried over is how much internal storage it'll have. Even at a max SD card, if we take a 25 GB standard that's not that many games to be able to go full digital on. Truly confusing why they would seemingly go backwards on some simple standards of the industry.
 
Good luck Nintendo. I hope bigger cards arent much more prohibitively expensive to make, cause a system that struggles aint gonna have a ton wanting to use such bigger cards.

I just wish i had any confidence in this gameplan of Nintendo's. *sigh*
 
When the Nx being cart based rumours first appeared, people did some napkin maths to calculate retail feasibility

Very nice analysis, but it was not entirely what I asked. Per unit the cost is lower, I would need some more data about disc va cartridge production cost as it still sound strange the production cost of each without the game casing is still way too close and there was a lot more to trim in packaging costs for the cartridge, but anyways I was looking at it from the publisher angle... the historical nature of discs vs cartridges. How much will the cost to publisher be (only one of the questions)? How small is the minimum order publishers will have to ask and pay in advabce for? How fast is the turnaround time from when you place the order to Nintendo to when you receive the cartridges? How would it work for repeated orders due to surges in demand?

Being a handheld, using cartridges makes a lot of sense if you need to sell games on the shelves, but Inam interested in understanding how far we have come in printing and patterning a cheap plastic blob vs printing an integrated circuit and giving it its own casing (the casing of the card itself not the outer game packaging).
 
I don't think there will be technical limitations preventing pretty much any game from showing up on the Switch.

I wouldn't be as confident but I also think that if third party want to put their games, they are able to, even if the console is different from the others two.
 
Huh? You're acting like this hasn't been the case for the entire history of Nintendo cartridge based systems

Sony did. It have to put a gun to their heads to get them to accept to use discs ;). Historically cartridges, their manufacturing time and cost to publishers, etc... did. It work better than discs to publishers.
 
I wouldn't be as confident but I also think that if third party want to put their games, they are able to, even if the console is different from the others two.

You are right, but the extra effort required must be worth more than what they would earn by doing other things for other games on other consoles... aka opportunity cost.
 
What was the standard SNES catridge size? Because it certainly wasn't 48Mbits, and wasn't that the size of Tales of Phantasia?

I'm certain we'll get far far larger Switch cards.
 
No real surprise in terms of size, but maybe Nintendo should clarify how they're going to handle storage. Right now it seems like one big clusterfuck
 
What's the lead time and inventory flexibility with modern 3DS cards? When we were doing N64 stuff it was a nightmare compared to CDs. Sony DADC had very small minimum orders, and could turn things around inside a week usually (might have been 10 days). Combined with lower unit costs per disc, you could be much more conservative with supply into retail and react quickly to any increase in demand. Overall keeping your risk low.

Nintendo on the other hand had much larger minimum orders, longer lead times due to production of the cartridges, and higher prices (based on size of memory needed and whether you wanted battery backed save memory etc). This meant much higher risk because your investment in stock had to be relatively higher and you took the risk of hedging demand because you couldn't react to changing demand quickly - lead time was weeks.
 
The bigger news I think is that the Switch's internal capacity will be 32gb. That's really low. I'm assuming we can get SD Cards? Even so... a 128gb card is around $50-60 where i live. That's about 10 10gb games.

I hope the game sizes are more like the Vita, because I bought a 64gb memory card and have everything I want and still have plenty of space left over.
 
What's the lead time and inventory flexibility with modern 3DS cards? When we were doing N64 stuff it was a nightmare compared to CDs. Sony DADC had very small minimum orders, and could turn things around inside a week usually (might have been 10 days). Combined with lower unit costs per disc, you could be much more conservative with supply into retail and react quickly to any increase in demand. Overall keeping your risk low.

Nintendo on the other hand had much larger minimum orders, longer lead times due to production of the cartridges, and higher prices (based on size of memory needed and whether you wanted battery backed save memory etc). This meant much higher risk because your investment in stock had to be relatively higher and you took the risk of hedging demand because you couldn't react to changing demand quickly - lead time was weeks.

Thank you for articulating the questions and points a lot better than I did. Being a portable system too kind of forces the hand to go for DD and cartridges (the latter if you want physical distribution) and I guess a change compared to the past is that there is the option of ordering small quantities for details (minimum to be visible to people) and hope digital downloads keep picking up pace and volume for you.

Still, I would like to know he answer to the question you asked.
 
Those who remember the N64 days have to be apprehensive about the 16GB standard storage size. This is a HOME CONSOLE with handheld properties releasing in 2017!!!

The last home console based on cartridges gave us:
- Heavily compressed textures.
- Incredibly foggy games
- Subpar sound/music. We had to deal with mostly midi tracks.
- Resident Evil 2 with heavily compressed/blocky FMV.
- Expensive game cartridges. I am looking at you, TUROK!
- Cancelled games. Final Fantasy 7 was actually started on the N64.
- Games with missing sections compared to PSx versions.

Ofcourse the fast cartridge loading speed was nice but the negatives far outweighed the positive.


Very important that Nintendo gets its messaging right.
If this thing is marketed as a home console first with all it's limitations.... It will turn into a WiiU 2.

Anyone expecting Nintendo to fumble yet again?

Someone posted a list of over 400 PS4 games, and only 100 were >16GB. Many of those the kinds of big budget AAA games you probably won't see on switch anyway.
 
Those who remember the N64 days have to be apprehensive about the 16GB standard storage size. This is a HOME CONSOLE with handheld properties releasing in 2017!!!

The last home console based on cartridges gave us:
- Heavily compressed textures.
- Incredibly foggy games
- Subpar sound/music. We had to deal with mostly midi tracks.
- Resident Evil 2 with heavily compressed/blocky FMV.
- Expensive game cartridges. I am looking at you, TUROK!
- Cancelled games. Final Fantasy 7 was actually started on the N64.
- Games with missing sections compared to PSx versions.

Ofcourse the fast cartridge loading speed was nice but the negatives far outweighed the positive.


Very important that Nintendo gets its messaging right.
If this thing is marketed as a home console first with all it's limitations.... It will turn into a WiiU 2.

Anyone expecting Nintendo to fumble yet again?
This isn't the 90s, and these cards aren't cartridges.

Your worrying is misplaced and kinda silly.
 
Costs more to produce larger game carts. Who do you think will pay for that?

Industry, mass production, deals

You act like flash memory isnt already competitively mass produced and sold cheap at the consumer level

128GB Micro SDs are sitting at 40 bucks sold to consumer. You guys dont think they didnt strike a deal to allow for 64GB carts to be made on the cheap?
 
The bluray comment makes me think standard could actually be 25 GB, not 16, and that the reporter didn't know the correct size of a bluray and was told "it'll hold a bluray disc as standard".

What I'm more worried over is how much internal storage it'll have. Even at a max SD card, if we take a 25 GB standard that's not that many games to be able to go full digital on. Truly confusing why they would seemingly go backwards on some simple standards of the industry.
I dont think thats likely. Memory cards usually goes in double intervals (4, 8, 16, 32 etc.), and since 16GB was mention, thats most likely the correct info.


Industry, mass production, deals

You act like flash memory isnt already competitively mass produced and sold cheap at the consumer level

128GB Micro SDs are sitting at 40 bucks sold to consumer. You guys dont think they didnt strike a deal to allow for 64GB carts to be made on the cheap?
Those things apply to lower sized memory cards as well. Higher volume memory cards will cost more, and they want to try to keep the cost down. Even if its for example "just" 2-3 dollars more, that would add up to 20-30 million dollars extra if they print a million copies.
 
Those who remember the N64 days have to be apprehensive about the 16GB standard storage size. This is a HOME CONSOLE with handheld properties releasing in 2017!!!

The last home console based on cartridges gave us:
- Heavily compressed textures.
- Incredibly foggy games
- Subpar sound/music. We had to deal with mostly midi tracks.
- Resident Evil 2 with heavily compressed/blocky FMV.
- Expensive game cartridges. I am looking at you, TUROK!
- Cancelled games. Final Fantasy 7 was actually started on the N64.
- Games with missing sections compared to PSx versions.

Ofcourse the fast cartridge loading speed was nice but the negatives far outweighed the positive.


Very important that Nintendo gets its messaging right.
If this thing is marketed as a home console first with all it's limitations.... It will turn into a WiiU 2.

Anyone expecting Nintendo to fumble yet again?

Dreadful post.

N64 cartridges were a fraction of the size of a CD ROM.

The smallest Switch cartridge is big enough the hold the majority of games ever released on a Nintendo console, including games released on Blu Ray like disks.
 
It's like people can't read. Or at least I hope that's what's going on. If they CAN read and STILL don't understand, then they're in a far worse way than I feared.

Once the word "Nintendo" appears the negative clouds everyone judgement. It must be worst, bad and/or hurt everyone because "Nintendo" is in the title.
 
Should be sufficient for most games considering the vast majority of AAA games from prominent publishers aren't going to have an Nintendo Switch version. And as far as I know, Nintendo games are usually not as big in terms of storage size.


Also I wonder what the production costs are for 16GB and 32GB cartridges, but it's probably not negligible at all compared to optical discs.

If some 3rd party publishers need 32GB cartridges for some of their games, that will probably cut in the profit margins of their Switch games, even if it's only a little bit, it's always an extra reason for them to be cautious of supporting Nintendo Switch.
 
If a game needs a bigger cartridge, and that pushes the price up, and it had better be worth it. Back in the day, when games asked a higher price for a bigger cartridge, those game soften displayed more impressive content than games typical of the more common cartridge sizes. It actually became a selling point and they would print the cart size on the box and the average user would associate that with better graphics or a more complex game. It's not a terrible problem.
 
From the economics and marketing pov, having limitations on the storage space side is really bad on the long run digital purchase expectations: vita, n64, wiiu.

How will they handle patches? :(

They should study that there's a cluster of people who like to have tons of games installed instead of dl and erasing each time :(
 
From the economics and marketing pov, having limitations on the storage space side is really bad on the long run digital purchase expectations: vita, n64, wiiu.

How will they handle patches? :(

They should study that there's a cluster of people who like to have tons of games installed instead of dl and erasing each time :(

Patches will be stored on the devices internal memory. Just like discs store patches on the HDD on other consoles. The main thing the carts are for is to hold the initial game. I guess they could use have save slots on the cart itself, but I doubt that's going to happen.
 
I expected 8GB or even 4GB to be honest, so this is good news. 16GB will fit most games and bigger cards will be available for more demanding games.

People who expected 256GB cards as a standard need to be ashamed of themselves.
 
For handheld games 16gb is even too much, for home games(at least the AAA ones) isn't, ok that 16gb isn't the max size, but higher capacity ones will also be more expensive and i don't think many will be happy to use them, if a game slightly surpasses 16gb i would expect cuts to fit it in a 16gb card, not the use of a 32gb card.
If i were you i would expect some AAA ports with big downgrades and some developers trying to find the right balance between amount of content and graphics to fit their new big games on the cheapest card, personally i love handhelds so i don't really care about graphics so i hope the "more content" option will always win XD
 
For handheld games 16gb is even too much, for home games(at least the AAA ones) isn't, ok that 16gb isn't the max size, but higher capacity ones will also be more expensive and i don't think many will be happy to use them, if a game slightly surpasses 16gb i would expect cuts to fit it in a 16gb card, not the use of a 32gb card.

Wrong, Day 1 patch to add content. Refer to that Forza game at Xbox One launch.
 
Heh, heh. That's totally against what Nintendo has said multiple times....

Nintendo can market it however they want. If they want to market it as a phone whose only purpose is to play games, they can. But it's still a handled. The main unit is the portable part of the console, and you can play it anywhere. It's a handled by definition. But it's not marketed as such, since pure handled devices are dying in the US.
 
Have size issues on Vita, all these 4GB games with free DLC. And these are sub native res textured games.
Bit worried that higher budget games will have the same issue with 16GB, because a high data card will eat into any small profit.
 
https://www.finder.com/xbox-one-install-sizes

There is a wide range, but many games under 16, more under 32, and all under 64gb.

So cartridge size is a non issue, but price per unit and lead time would be larger concerns.

But those would be moot if Switch gets a sizable customer base.

Halo 5 is currently sitting at 95 GB on my HDD. Launch day sizes are meaningless when a lot of games ship with 5-10GB patches as mandatory.
 
Have size issues on Vita, all these 4GB games with free DLC. And these are sub native res textured games.
Bit worried that higher budget games will have the same issue with 16GB, because a high data card will eat into any small profit.

Let's be honest, any game that is using a 32GB Card or higher is most likely a AAA game that will sell millions. Now, whether it sells millions on Switch is another matter because western AAA publishers have already got their demographics on PS4/Xbox One, so again Nintendo has to deal with getting the mainstream consumer on the Switch and entice them to buy FIFA on Switch compared to the other consoles.
 
Let's be honest, any game that is using a 32GB Card or higher is most likely a AAA game that will sell millions. Now, whether it sells millions on Switch is another matter because western AAA publishers have already got their demographics on PS4/Xbox One, so again Nintendo has to deal with getting the mainstream consumer on the Switch and entice them to buy FIFA on Switch compared to the other consoles.

I'm of a mind that if FIFA is good and has all of the features of the other versions, then it'll be in a good position to sell. Especially if the player can take it with them wherever they go. If the NS version is gimped in some way, then it's doomed right out of the gate. I think people will be willing to overlook graphics if it has feature parity and accepts their EA account without any problems.
 
Top Bottom