Support NeoGAF

[Finalizer]

And yet all the while, we fell all over ourselves talking about how organized the Clinton camp was compared to Trump's disorganized mess of a ground campaign.

It's almost as if we make up these narratives out of thin air to suit the reality that we want to believe in.

I don't think there was any significant issue with disorganization, rather that the whole thing was terribly misdirected in hindsight. I don't recall there being much discussion over the rust belt, aside from an expected Ohio flip. No one was showing data that pointed to a defensive game so the campaign went offensive. An infuriating oversight for sure, but remembering the mood throughout the entire campaign, it's easy to see how it happened.

 

[CoolOff]

So Hillary was a bad candidate? damn if only there were some warning signs before shot got nominated...oh wait. That is perhaps harsh but seriously, she was a flawed candidate through and through. Damn i'm pissed :/

There's a difference between a flawed candidate and a totally incompetent campaign. The latter was not known before the election.

 

[daxy]

Not surprising! It seemed to be in the pocket from a rational point of view.

 

[UCBooties]

I'm laughing.

How do you mess up this badly? Win handed to you on a platter and you still fumble it. Smh.

Probably in part because they thought the win was being handed to them on a silver platter. A large part of the liberal voting blocs in this country (myself absolutely included) believed that Trump's failings as a candidate and a person would simply make him too repugnant to be electable, even as the nominee of the non-incumbent party after an eight year administration.

 

[Luschient]

 

[Maintenance]

Where the fucking hell did all that money go? (besides down the toilet)

Lady Gaga.

 

[gutter_trash]

Hillary is a great policy wonk but she is bad at running campaigns.

The Rust Belt man, the Rust Belt. Trump was eyeing it since the beginning

Michael Moore was right

 

[psynergylover]

Oh Hillary....

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Might want to read the numbers on the side.

Did you even read the post? It was obviously a joke.

 

[Kurtofan]

This was posted in the introspection thread:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign.html?_r=0



Even Bill warned them.

starting to think she was the trump plant

 

[chillybright]

And they spent TWICE as much.

What a bunch of incompetent idiots.

 

[Torokil]

I'm going to fucking put Robby Mook on my Mad Max car like they did with Max at the beginning of Fury Road. Thanks for ruining the world you guys.

 

[Jeels]

So much for the months of people telling others Clinton has an amazing ground game that is second to none.

How do you not doing polling for the last month of an election? How do you not ensure the states that need resources have them especially given the amount of money they likely pissed away?

Democrats screwed democrats this election.

Particularly when you have all the damned money in the world. Seriously?

 

[pj]

Might want to read the numbers on the side. Either way though, Hillary was a goddamn mistake. And I can't shake the idea from my head that the DNC literally gave Hillary a coronation either, and that the fact that she was 'the' candidate they put forth was something planned long in advance.

Yes, that's the joke. I edited the graph to make the scale even more absurd...

 

[Frustrated_me]

I made a very detailed OP about this the other day. You may find answers within.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1311258

Thanks, that's even more upsetting.

 

[Chococat]

How in the fuck.

HOW IN THE FUCK.

Simple. It not just a Hillary problem, but a liberal problem. The east and the west coast write off the fly over states as backwards rural people. During the recession, a lot of midwest democrats had to flee to find jobs on the coast. Between losing population and assuming the state would stay blue- liberals on the whole fucked up.

In fighting between Hillary and Sanders people further divided support at a time when the party need to come together over ideas- not personalities. But those ideas were ignored even here on GAF.

 

[Living the Dream]

How ironic that from all of this; Trump and his team look like geniuses whom get the last laugh.

Horrible.

 

[Zee-Row]

GAF turning faster on Hillary than Hannity did on Romney 4 years ago!

Watching a party eat it's own is fascinating.

I was never on her side , i only voted for her because I didn't want Trump. I was 100% Bernie.

 

[LegendofJoe]

She lost to Sanders in Michigan. How did they not notice she might have a problem there?

And yet polling had her comfortably ahead. It's hard to allocate resources efficiently when your decisions are based on bad data.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

She was constantly in PA and Florida. How'd they flip then?

 

[wesleyshark]

I made a very detailed OP about this the other day. You may find answers within.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1311258

Wow this thread is great. Thanks

 

[Jigorath]

Well umm, at least she cancelled the fireworks.

 

[Schlorgan]

starting to think she was the trump plant

lol

 

[oneofthose]

feeling the bern?

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

We dodged a bullet there.
Kind of ironic seeing poor judgement be their undoing.

Yeah, dodged the slow poisoning, but got the firing squad instead.

What a deal!

 

[Jarmel]

And yet polling had her comfortably ahead. It's hard to allocate resources efficiently when your decisions are based on bad data.

There's a lot of fuckups in this and it's not just the campaign. Pollsters obviously need to be dragged out for this.

 

[fantomena]

Michael Moore was right

But PoliGAF and HillGAF told me he was a delusional nut.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Are we really going to revise history, now? Hillary was one of the primary reasons Bill Clinton even won his run for governor of Arkansas which kickstarted his whole political career. "For unknown reasons" is a nonsense statement

I'm just looking at the information in front of us. One has been very successful and the other seems to have been repeatedly gifted opportunities by her party.

 

[Goodstyle]

She was constantly in PA and Florida. How'd they flip then?

This. I don't think the problems can be reduced to Hillary not going to certain places. Also, the data was bad anyways, tracking polls would have averaged in her favour because the methodology was wrong. The thing that went wrong isn't a simple answer.

 

[Rentahamster]

And I can't shake the idea from my head that the DNC literally gave Hillary a coronation either.

Just an idea, huh?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...e_race_there_will_be_a_coronation_of_her.html

DONNA BRAZILE: I don't think so. Martin O'Malley has made some noise recently that he's interested. Of course we have Joe Biden, Kristen Gillibrand, the senator from the great state here of New York. Elizabeth Warren, there is a lot of buzz around her, and of course, Governor Cuomo here from New York. A lot of talk. And let me not forget Joe Biden, because he will call me this afternoon and remind me.

So while I do think it's too early to handicap the race, there is no question, if Hillary Clinton gets into the race, there will be a coronation of her, because there are so many Democrats who last time around supported her, who I think are anxious to see her back out there again.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Stupid motherfuckers.

sorry, I couldn't resist

 

[gutter_trash]

She was constantly in PA and Florida. How'd they flip then?

She was running in Urban PA and Urban Philly, ignoring the poor white rural areas

 

[GillianSeed79]

How the fuck do you lose to someone whose campaign spent more money on hats than a ground game. How do you ignore half the fucking country? You can't just campaign in big cities. Fuck.

 

[davepoobond]

Well umm, at least she cancelled the fireworks.

explosions would have been appropriate for what happened.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Sanders won Michigan by 20 some points, carried almost entirely by millennials and blue collar workers. Everywhere else, it was millennials and blue collar workers whgo let him come close.

Remember, he got 45% of the primary votes.

The primary reason for refusing to vote for Sanders was that he wasn't realistic.

:\

I donated to Hillary's campaign right after the RNC as I was starkly anti-Trump. My first time ever giving a political campaign money and I don't think I'll ever do it again. Volunteering I'm okay with, but yeah.

I probably should've paid more attention to the primaries. I was a very casual Bernie fan, lol.

 

[wildfire]

She was so confident she turned into Romney.

She was already there with her million dollar speaking fees. Now her brand is destroyed and she'll never command that type of money again. It really sucks that the TRump brand will see a reversal of their losses but for fucking up this badly she deserves her fate. I hope her campaign team are even worse off because it wasn't only her fault. The DNC and her Hilldawg stans also deserve blame for this blight on our history.

 

[Jarmel]

It's not that she didn't go to this or that state.

She lost EVERY battleground state other than Virginia/NH.

 

[MrBadger]

They were way too sure of themselves. What a mess.

 

[Rentahamster]

But PoliGAF and HillGAF told me his was a delusional nut.

You should have listened to me, then.

Perhaps, but I don't see Hillary connecting with certain demographics the way Donald is. Michael Moore explains it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_y1TC5w--w

Note: this clip is just a part of his overall speech, which is pro-Hillary.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Wooooooooow.

Just....why not???? Incompetence? Overconfidence?

They're just as shocked as we were so a bit of both. And they certainly had the echo chamber going on full blast in the last month.

Explains the early celebratory thing.

 

[entremet]

But PoliGAF and HillGAF told me his was a delusional nut.

I remember that. The thread is locked, but man, what a humbling election for many.

 

[BotoxAgent]

I started to feel worried once she disappeared for a month in August after the convention. She basically let Trump have free reign on media coverage

Like WTF!!?

 

[wesleyshark]

She was constantly in PA and Florida. How'd they flip then?

She was here in Pittsburgh a lot. Pittsburgh (which is in Allegheny County) is super blue.

 

[KingV]

They mostly haven't. Look at the "moderates coming out in force" thread made by Crossing Eden and you can see the most ardent Hill supporters burying their heads and ingnoring that their strategies sucked.

They are all doing this right now.

They lack nuance and have no interest in seeing in what other potential ways they and their chosen candidate. They are going so far as to call Democrats Trump supporters because they refuse to believe there is any other way to approach how we could've won this campaign.

Lets face it we failed Hillary because Trump is a once-in-a-lifetime political talent.

Its going to be a long 8 years.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Some of us have been discussing this in the Introspection thread, here's some more of Hillary and her teams arrogance on display

Last year, a prominent group of supporters asked Hillary Clinton to address a prestigious St. Patrick’s Day gathering at the University of Notre Dame, an invitation that previous presidential candidates had jumped on.

Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr. had each addressed the group, and former President Bill Clinton was eager for his wife to attend. But Mrs. Clinton’s campaign refused, explaining to the organizers that white Catholics were not the audience she needed to spend time reaching out to.

And she ceded the white working-class voters who backed Mr. Clinton in 1992. Though she would never have won this demographic, her husband insisted that her campaign aides do more to try to cut into Mr. Trump’s support with these voters. They declined, reasoning that she was better off targeting college-educated suburban voters by hitting Mr. Trump on his temperament.

Former Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania also said he had encouraged campaign aides at Mrs. Clinton’s Brooklyn headquarters to spread their vast resources outside Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and focus on rural white pockets of the state. “We had the resources to do both,” Mr. Rendell said Wednesday. “The campaign — and this was coming from Brooklyn — didn’t want to do it.” (Mr. Trump won Pennsylvania by one percentage point.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign.html

Here's Joe Biden from a few months ago talking about how Democrats aren't speaking to the white working class worker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g3py6RVrXQ

And again late last month seemingly even more frustrated than before about the lack of attention paid to that group

http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/vp-biden-we-ve-lost-touch-with-working-class-793534019849

 

[UnemployedVillain]

But PoliGAF and HillGAF told me his was a delusional nut.

These kinds of post are odd when not just her campaign, but the vast majority of the media, pollsters and users thought she would have an easy win. A number of these reactions, while understandably angry, are essentially trying to rewrite history to pretend everything that went wrong was obvious when if it was so obvious it wouldn't have happened.

The lack of outreach to working class white people in the Rust Belt was something that should've been done, but then we get into a discussion of to what level? How to allocate attention towards them, with the hopes of chipping away some of their votes, versus other more likely demos in hopes of further solidifying leads?

 

[legacyzero]

The whole Democratic Party- Arrogance and assumption.

 

[ebullientprism]

Maybe they read GAF and knew she had a 99% chance of winning and didnt bother.

Or maybe it was a GAFfer running it.

Spoiler

With how aggressively some people here were campaigning for her thats only half a joke.

 

[Smokey_Run]

And yet polling had her comfortably ahead. It's hard to allocate resources efficiently when your decisions are based on bad data.

So she fell for the same shit twice. She was up almost 20 points on Sanders and lost. Give me a break. Be proactive and don't take shit for granted when it actually counts.

 

[turtle553]

She was a bad candidate in an especially bad time for establishment candidates. That's somewhat different than having run a bad campaign. Not visiting Wisconsin was a fuckup but she lost Michigan/Pennsylvania as well. She was fucked if she lost any of those three so in the end it's not just Wisconsin.

Whatever problems the Trump campaign had, there was at least an overall strategy of trying to flip the rust belt states. And it wasn't a secret at all. He would do the usual things in debates by bringing up the problems of Ohio or Michigan. Instead of defending that area, Clinton tried to flip traditional red states like Georgia and Arizona to have a blowout.

The PA governor asked her to campaign outside of just Philly and Pittsburgh and they declined. Bill begged the campaign to attract white voters and they didn't think it was needed.