Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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KeyBladerXIII said:
Hey, if there's ever a need for an alien crew member in a future movie, they should definitely do a Mon Cal. Ackbar is still kicking, I'm sure he has a few recommendations.
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I wouldn't settle for it, but grudgingly accept a good 2 minutes of Mon Calamari specific on board activity outside of the bridge. The open design of the viewing area is pretty crazy. Says so much about the sense of self in the vastness of space, much like an ocean.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Lucasfilm.

Also, you got Vader at the end of this.

Also his grandkid is a mentally unstable school shooter, basically. That shit is pretty threatening. Sure, he's not some hulking, brick shithouse mass of evil. But you don't need to be the Terminator to be genuinely threatening. Unhinged Adam Driver spiraling down into pure psychotic behavior will probably be pretty threatening. I'd imagine Rian Johnson has some shit in mind for that.
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I've seen the Lucasfilm distinction before, from you and other people. It's a good argument and I can't counter it in any serious way, except to say the actual products we're seeing scream the Disney approach. The Star Wars films have the same problems as the Marvel films, and those aren't the same problems I'm seeing in a lot of non-Disney films. Possibly it's coincidence at this point, but now when I see a Star Wars film I expect the same sort of product as their Marvel releases. (Among many issues: weak villains, too heavy reliance on intertextuality for drama and humor, a lack of extraneous world-building which means all of the narrative 'puzzle pieces' are actually needed, way way too much telling instead of showing, editing in action scenes that nearly always removes the effect/impact so everything becomes weightless and unsatisfying, etc.) If you told me that Dr. Strange and Rogue One came from the same creative team I would believe it 100%.

The one major exception being Rian Johnson's work. You're right, he might actually turn Adam Driver into something menacing instead of the (admittedly funny and probably deliberate) joke he was in E7. I just worry they're setting up a redemption arc for him -- something I can't imagine I'll be buying into -- but I guess E8 will be the proof of how these films are going to go, one way or another.

Vader lost all of his menace for me when he started punning.

Jason's Ultimatum said:
Jesus Christ the locales were gorgeous in this movie. I wish I could live on the Island planet at the end.

What I liked about this movie was how the technology and screens had the original feel to it. Something Lucas failed at in the prequel trilogy.
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Yeah, some seriously pretty scenery.

The screens were great, though to be fair some of them were actually pulled directly from the OT. And that last computer was especially jarring with its talking.
 
Also I just want to say, THAT vader scene in the end was god damn fantastic. The power and menace he displayed hasn't been shown properly in such a long time, and it was so damn hype. It was good to see him again.
 
Branduil said:
Did you forget the scene in ANH where Han Solo goes off about his PTSD and all the shit he's had to do fighting the empire.

And who could forget the classic scene of Obi-Wan torturing R2-D2 with a tentacle monster.
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Han: Never tell me the odds, kid.

Han stares at Luke for a moment, then walks away. Chewie approaches.

Luke: What's his problem?
Chewie: It got bad, Luke. Real bad. There used to be ten of us. We were attacked by Stormtroopers. Han barely saved me. But his wife, his daughter. Now he's job to job. Can't even bring himself to believe in the force anymore.

Luke nods, hearing nothing but bear noises.
 
I heard that the novelization of the movie is very good and put a lot of extra "screen time" for the characters...


maybe I will pick up this one...
 
It was alright, nothing truly great. But alright. The main set up of the movie was as a tragedy with a heroic sight in the end. But something about it felt unremarkable. The villain lacked presence. He wasn't intimidating really. His relationship to the protagonist's family wasn't elaborated to give him nuance either so we're just left with "meh". Actually, all the characters needed more time for depth. It feels like parts of their characterizations were missing and we just got the bare essentials of what made them up.
 
The scarif maps in Star Wars Battlefront give some clues to what might have been the original ending which matched up with the trailers. You have to get the data tapes on the ground and then the rebel ship takes off with the data tapes on board? Seems familiar lol.
 
This movie did nothing for me. I didn't care about any of the characters apart from the robot and the blind dude. There was zero chemistry amongst the cast, the polar opposite of Force Awakens. The story was muddled. Force Awakens gets shit for its story being too similar to A New Hope; Rogue One doesn't copy any movie in particular, but commits the even worse sin of feeling generic, like any number of other Hollywood movies that come out every year.

Force Awakens had an energy and vitality to it. It knew exactly what it was, and delivered exactly what it wanted to. Rogue One seems conflicted tonally. It's not weighty enough to be a "dark" or "gritty" Star Wars, and it's not light enough to be a rollicking adventure in the spirit of the original film and Force Awakens.

I'm happy that people who were disappointed with Force Awakens have a new Star Wars of their own. But personally, I have never felt so disinterested while watching a Star Wars film. I'd rather watch Force Awakens a fourth time than watch Rogue One a second time.
 
So much better than TFA which was just anh retread for a new generation. But, what was with the "don't choke on your ambitions" Vader pun line? That was full on Roger Moore bond.

But, perhaps I liked it more in contrast to force awakens. Not sure how good it was as a movie, if detached from star wars universe.

Also, who were the bothan spies? :)
 
Tektonic said:
So much better than TFA which was just anh retread for a new generation. But, what was with the "don't choke on your ambitions" Vader pun line? That was full on Roger Moore bond.

But, perhaps I liked it more in contrast to force awakens. Not sure how good it was as a movie, if detached from star wars universe.

Also, who were the bothan spies? :)
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I liked the joke.
 
Lamel said:
Also I just want to say, THAT vader scene in the end was god damn fantastic. The power and menace he displayed hasn't been shown properly in such a long time, and it was so damn hype. It was good to see him again.
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Pretty much this. As a kid I was only interested in Star Wars because of Vader and decades later he's still the only reason why I still enjoy the movies. It was good to see him again.
 
Had the chance to see it in both Dolby Cinema and Real IMAX 3D.
The sound in the Dolby Vision showing was amazing! Blaster shots, explosions, Darth Vader's Lightsaber, everything sounded amazing, plus your chair shakes a bit with big explosions.

Picture quality wise the screen is not as big as compared to one from a real IMAX theater, but definitely bigger than LieMax. Colors are brighter and blacks are deeper, plus the movie had a good amount of grain, specially noticeable when it takes place on Jedha and Yavin.
 
Saw it yesterday, pretty good movie. The deaths of all the main characters though were so fucking fake and cringy. Everyone before dying had a moment of slow motion in which they faced their doom with courage and looked at their friends while dying.... I mean come on....

A way better ending in my opinion would be for everyone to survive and get out of the planet but while delivering the plans and the audience thinks the movie had ended and the good guys succeeded, Vader shows in that corridor and kills the main cast, instead of killing a bunch of nobodies. That would make for a nice twist and make the audience hate Vader more. Think that would be a better ending than watching the shockwave slowly coming while hugging...
 
Nere said:
A way better ending in my opinion would be for everyone to survive and get out of the planet but while delivering the plans and the audience thinks the movie had ended and the good guys succeeded, Vader shows in that corridor and kills the main cast, instead of killing a bunch of nobodies. That would make for a nice twist and make the audience hate Vader more.
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speaking of fake and cringy
 
Bobby Roberts said:
speaking of fake and cringy
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Yep. The film works because none of them know whether they've actually succeeded. They can only hope. If they'd handed the plans over in person then died, that's too saccharine.

That's what all the force stuff was about - having faith in something you couldn't see.
 
Me and my wife saw it Saturday evening at the Regal LIVE, and it was really, really good.

I'm not hopped up on hyperbole goofballs, so I don't think it was better than The Empire Strikes Back (or even The Force Awakens), but I feel like it sits up there with the best Star Wars movies.

The dialogue was what I'd expect from a Star Wars movie, as were the performances (talented actors working with dialogue that is specifically made to evoke serial pulp adventure films and stories). The movie started pretty slow in my opinion, but not in a bad way. It just had a little bit of a buildup. I did think the character relationships developed really fast, but if I counted that as a negative, I'd have to count it as a negative for Finn, Rey, and Poe, and I loved their friendship in TFA, so I'll give it a pass here. Really, the movie didn't pick up for me until Donnie Yen showed up. But that's my Donnie Yen fanboyism talking. The characters were pretty decent, with some gray area to them that I wished we could have had more screentime to dive into. Diego Luna and Felicity Jones were very good, as is Donnie Yen and Wen Jieng, and the rest of the Rebels, but we just don't get enough time with all of them to really form a bond with them. They're all likable, in particular Alan Tudyk's K-2SO, but it's a movie that felt like it could have used an extra 10 minutes or so, and judging by what was shown in trailers, and what's actually in the movie, I think at least that much was cut for time.

Michael Giaccino's score was actually kind of understated and restrained, which is not a negative. He easily could have overloaded our eardrums with classic themes from A New Hope and the rest of the trilogy, but that wasn't the case. The original pieces of music felt right at home, and whenever classic motifs were applied, they were applied sparingly. For someone who had only 4 weeks to craft the score for the movie, he did a great job.

While the visual effects were great, fantastic even, I can't not comment on some of the uncanny valley present in some of the characters in the movie. Perhaps seeing it on a huge movie screen made it stand out more, but the CG characters made to look like real people really stood out in the vast majority of their application. I give ILM a ton of credit for trying. Afterall, you can't perfect the technology if you aren't applying the technology. I have a feeling that we'll eventually get there, but it's going to take a long time, and a lot of practice. Even still, it was great seeing these characters telling a Star Wars stories in 2016.

In short, I loved the movie. It wasn't perfect, but I'm looking forward to picking it up on Blu Ray and giving it a watch.

To be honest, A New Hope is probably my least favorite of the Star Wars OT, but I feel like I have a bit more appreciation for it after watching Rogue One. I can easily see myself following up a rewatch of Rogue One with A New Hope now. They can be watched together in the same way The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi can be watched together. Four movies that tell a really good Star Wars story. In a way, Rogue One is a better Prequel movie than the three Prequels that precede it.
 
Actually, the more I think about it, the worse it seems.

The first hour was disjointed and hard to follow from a plot perspective. Just really bad writing/editing.

The second half was solidly entertaining, but -- outside the droid -- the characters were pretty lame/boring. There were many fan service scenes/easter eggs that seemed cheap/forced. I enjoyed the spirit of the ending, but the execution was lame.

I'd say it's the fifth-best SW films after the originals and the TFA.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
speaking of fake and cringy
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I don't think it would be fake and cringy. Vader mowing down the characters we've been with the entire movie would have been more powerful and scarier than Vader cutting up nobodies. As it is now, it's just fan service. A cool bit of fan service, but it really doesn't do much except being cool.
 
theCalamity said:
I don't think it would be fake and cringy. Vader mowing down the characters we've been with the entire movie would have been more powerful and scarier than Vader cutting up nobodies. As it is now, it's just fan service. A cool bit of fan service, but it really doesn't do much except being cool.
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How? It's not like those guys pose any more threat to Vader than the "nobodies" do.
 
Nere said:
A way better ending in my opinion would be for everyone to survive and get out of the planet but while delivering the plans and the audience thinks the movie had ended and the good guys succeeded, Vader shows in that corridor and kills the main cast, instead of killing a bunch of nobodies. That would make for a nice twist and make the audience hate Vader more. Think that would be a better ending than watching the shockwave slowly coming while hugging...
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That would take Rogue One which is right now a top 3 film in the franchise for me to dead last. That ending sounds beyond cheesy.

The entire movie is about hope. Having hope. The way they died they had no idea if they succeeded with the plans being stolen. They relied on hope. Everything in the film lead to how they died.
 
It would rob the movie of some of it's most beautiful moments.

Cassian and Jyn on the beach waiting for death with Giacchino's fantastic "Your Father Would Be Proud" playing.

The feeling you had in your gut knowing the mission was doomed when K2-SO died and begged Cassian and Jyn to climb.

Chirrut's sacrifice.

The movie would be MUCH MUCH MUCH worse without these moments and instead have Vader mowing them all down. This ending shot would literally destroy the entire third act and make it an emotionless meaningless action scene only and result in a bad movie.

I honestly can't comprehend how anyone who saw the movie and liked it would want to lose the beach waiting for death scene with that Giacchino track. Wanting to lose the most emotional and moving moment of the entire film and one of the best moments of the entire franchise? I mean what???
 
Cheebo said:
It would rob the movie of some of it's most beautiful moments.

Cassian and Jyn on the beach waiting for death with Giacchino's fantastic "Your Father Would Be Proud" playing.

The feeling you had in your gut knowing the mission was doomed when K2-SO died and begged Cassian and Jyn to climb.

Chirrut's sacrifice.

The movie would be MUCH MUCH MUCH worse without these moments and instead have Vader mowing them all down. This ending shot would literally destroy the entire third act and make it an emotionless meaningless action scene only and result in a bad movie.

I honestly can't comprehend how anyone who saw the movie and liked it would want to lose the beach waiting for death scene with that Giacchino track. Wanting to lose the most emotional and moving moment of the entire film and one of the best moments of the entire franchise? I mean what???
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Well, I can't speak for the other guy, but I didn't like the movie.

It doesn't have to be all of the characters. A couple would've worked. Or even just one. But no one? That just makes the Vader scene all fan service. Which isn't bad, but it would've been more powerful if we had known someone that he killed. Or have Chirrut and Baze sacrifice themselves to slow Vader down. Could've had Vader laugh at Chirrut's mantra.
 
I don't see how inserting a main character into the Vader scene would suddenly make it non-fan service. He has no relationship to any of the characters except a very shallow one with Chirrut as they're both connected to the force. It would add very little to the "story."
 
Trigonometrize. said:
I don't see how inserting a main character into the Vader scene would suddenly make it non-fan service. He has no relationship to any of the characters except a very shallow one with Chirrut as they're both connected to the force. It would add very little to the "story."
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Yeah, it wouldn't change that scene. It would just ruin all these countless great scenes in the third act instead.
 
I saw Rogue One yesterday and loved it. It felt perfectly at home in the Star Wars universe, but didn't really feel like any of the other Star Wars movies. Also, the Vader scene at the end was perfect -- I've never found him more menacing than that.
 
Trigonometrize. said:
I don't see how inserting a main character into the Vader scene would suddenly make it non-fan service. He has no relationship to any of the characters except a very shallow one with Chirrut as they're both connected to the force. It would add very little to the "story."
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Vader doesn't need to have a relationship with the main characters. We have the relationship to the main characters. As it stands, the Vader scene doesn't have any dramatic effect. Add the characters that we've spent the entire movie with, and it turns from cheering at Vader's badassery to the audience being conflicted between cheering and feeling scared for the characters.

The Hulk can explain it better than I can:

Now, when it comes to this intense unleashing of menace and chaos, it's everything we've ever wanted, right? It's filmed in a scary way! With smart execution and real brutality! From Vader!

Too bad it's after our climax has already occurred. It's a sequence where we already know exactly what's going to happen (the plans are going to get to Leia) and involves a bunch of faceless nobodies. This just turns into gore horror movie logic. Let's show the "bad guy" character we indulgently like kicking ass! Which is why people clap and cheer, all as part of the most puerile reversing and misunderstanding of Vader-worship. To me, it's the exact same kind of bastardization as the pun, but this time the betrayal is for indulgent bullshit. You can say this is an extreme opinion, but I am not backing down from this.

You want to make Vader be scary and have menace? Then why didn't the film try the actual dramatic alternative? How do you include this exact scene and not put it at as part of the climax involving your film's actual characters? How fucking scary would it be if in the final defense, Lord Vader shows up and mows down our beloved characters in a way that actually terrifies us? Then the dramatic question is not "will the plans get to Leia?" But "will our heroes die in the process?" It is everything that is obvious about this choice, and a falsification of the intended "menace" the audience wants from the character (because really, they want to cheer). Why is Vader just the dessert? Look, the result is such a complicated thing to parse out, because at once it's a sequence we want, but not in a way that truly services the film's story or drama.
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I don't know if I want Vader savagely killing off the main characters. That would make everything they went through a little less noble (going out like chumps) and for me super depressing. Plus it makes it a little weird to sell toys to the little ones I suppose. If the movie had a R rating and we could really go to town with Vader I would be more for it.
Vader goes apeshit because the plans are literally within his grasp. He is much more calm on the Tantive IV because he has to figure out what happened to the plans.
 
People act as if fan service is a bad thing.

It worked well here for me. Vader was at the battle, they gave you a peek of his involvement, and viewers already know where that story goes.
 
Saw this last night, way better than expected. The first half hour is a bit frustrating as it jumps around a lot, and the last few minutes felt a bit shoehorned in although that's understandable I guess. Everything in between made this possibly my favourite Star Wars movie (at least until I rewatch the originals).

This also has the best worst line in any film ever.

Be careful not to..... """""choke""""".... on your aspirations, Director.

Also saw someone in this thread mention "member berries" earlier... Lol, get a grip. The whole film had precisely one unecessary callback (C3PO turning up out of nowhere), the rest of the film was either new or setting up A New Hope (for which this was a direct prequel, after all).

Edit: Also I'm not usually one to care about spoilers, but I had absolutely no idea Vader was in this film and his reveal was a real treat.
 
theCalamity said:
Vader doesn't need to have a relationship with the main characters. We have the relationship to the main characters. As it stands, the Vader scene doesn't have any dramatic effect. Add the characters that we've spent the entire movie with, and it turns from cheering at Vader's badassery to the audience being conflicted between cheering and feeling scared for the characters.

The Hulk can explain it better than I can:
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I don't remember anyone cheering at the cinema. Hell, I'm a horror fan and it was the first time in aeons that my cynical ass actually felt chills and terror at what I was seeing.

And if you saw that and thought "wow, Vader's a bad ass" then that's on you, not the film.
 
Sorcerer said:
I don't know if I want Vader savagely killing off the main characters.
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I'm kind of glad he didn't just because of how over-connected the Star Wars characters always are. It would have been totally justifiable for Vader to be involved in this battle but made a nice change for him to be almost completely auxillary to the main characters' story.
 
DeathyBoy said:
I don't remember anyone cheering at the cinema. Hell, I'm a horror fan and it was the first time in aeons that my cynical ass actually felt chills and terror at what I was seeing.

And if you saw that and thought "wow, Vader's a bad ass" then that's on you, not the film.
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I thought it was totally badass, I was enacting that kidbday.gif grinningvfrom ear to ear. Shit was dope man!
 
Kojirospath said:
I thought it was totally badass, I was enacting that kidbday.gif grinningvfrom ear to ear. Shit was dope man!
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I couldn't enjoy that scene just because I was waiting for the guy to pass the thing through the door.

"Please pass the thing through the door. We all know it's going to happen, please just do it now so I can enjoy watching Vader slaughter you"

:P
 
DeathyBoy said:
I don't remember anyone cheering at the cinema. Hell, I'm a horror fan and it was the first time in aeons that my cynical ass actually felt chills and terror at what I was seeing.

And if you saw that and thought "wow, Vader's a bad ass" then that's on you, not the film.
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A lot of people in my theater were cheering. A lot of people I spoke to think it was badass.
 
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