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[Griss]

For me, BOTW is the first open-worlder that doesn't feel like a "connect the dots" affair, going from waypoint to waypoint, sidequest to sidequest, collectible to collectible, looking at a map with hundreds of markers on it, etc. While at a very high level, you're doing those things, the manner in which you're doing them, and the freedom which you have to do it, feels different and so much more organic and natural than anything I've ever played. I also like that the game more or less gives you everything you need to solve virtually every puzzle in the game within the first few hours, so it's essentially you vs. the world from that point forward instead of always focusing on what you need to do next to gain access to the next tool. That's a huge, huge change for Zelda, and it also makes it unique among open world games as well. Also, almost always, going off the beaten path to explore something results in a reward or something you weren't expecting, which is just the best feeling.

All of this is true, but just the fact that the game has puzzles marks it out as different from most open world games. That you actually interact with the world, rather than just moving through it and fighting things. It's the mechanics that are special here rather than the world map itself.

For example: jumping off the top of a waterfall to split a pedestal with a fucking trident. That's the kind of natural interactivity / puzzle that other open world games just don't have. And I do love those other open world games. But the world is a setting rather than a playground.

I actually think the world / map in Zelda is getting too much credit in this thread and elsewhere when the real stars of the show are the mechanics, controls, ruins, enemies, enemy AI, puzzle design, quest design etc.

Saying 'Wow I can actually go to that mountain!' is meaningless - you can do that in any open world game, pretty much. It's what you can DO there that makes it different.

If this game WASN'T open world, but had all the same mechanics, enemy encounters / AI, villages, runes etc, it would easily be the best 3D Zelda of all time. I think that gets lost here.

 

[Smeags]

Its very easy to overthink the dungeon puzzles in this game. I probably spent at least an hour in the Gerudo beast without activating a single terminal, when suddenly it all jist clicked. Its amazing how this game can take you from feeling like the biggest idiot to "Ooooh now I get it!".

Also, that boss was tough for me, as I really havent relied on flurry rushed in combat thus far. Its neat when you finish a boss not just with an extra heart, but a better understanding of combat.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

the best part is OT's are usually far from grounded especially first week.

Usually yeah. Dragon age inquisition had a massive love affair in the OT at first. But with this game it's that good. Look at the complaints though, theyre fairly common and the same

-voice acting is bad (in English)
- story is fairly boring and simplistic. Main campaign as a whole is more of a side content
- master swords mechanics is dumb.
- on the above, plenty still dislike the weapon breaking mechanic.
-it rains way too often and it fucks you over while climbing

 

[DrArchon]

There's probably pros/cons to both methods. Mining ore off of mountainsides with bombs frequently ends up with the rewards blowing straight off the cliffs. If hammers are less "messy", that may be something to consider.

The minerals always land nearby when using a hammer, but I've broken stuff mining, so I guess on flatter surfaces or near the ground bombs would be way better.

It doesn't need to be a hammer either. It can be any weapon. Hammers and two-handed clubs just do it in one hit. I've hit an ore deposit with a spear 5-6 times and had it break open.

 

[Formless]

Man I forgot about the share button (I only click it accidentally). Really should be using it more.

 

[peppermints]

Split Joy-Cons, man! I don't want to AT ALL compare having a new baby and having a needy puppy, but I'm gonna do it anyways - I hope you don't take offense! But my dog will constantly paw at my hands when he wants attention, so I'm able to kind of cradle him and still play comfortably lol. He then falls asleep and it's so cute, but sometimes the rumble wakes him up.

I guess I could just train him better too...

Playing on Wii U. Most of my play time has been holding him once he falls asleep after a feeding in the middle of the night.

 

[GRW810]

You dont need the hammer. You can break the oar

Spoiler

using bombs.

Only problem is the contents often go flying all over the place.

 

[Robdraggoo]

easiest to hardest

Spoiler

1) bird dungeon

Very short and the dungeon is painfully simple and straightforward. The boss doesn't even seem capable of hitting the player. I beat him without taking even one hit.

2) goron

Dungeon required a little tinkering but nothing too bad. Boss was simple, and, again, I didn't even take one hit.

3) zoro

A little trickier but still not bad. Boss was pretty easy.

4) guruden

This is the only dungeon that I found difficult (I basically just fumbled around for 2 hours until I accidentally got through it) and the only boss that was even slightly challenging. I still beat him on the first go, though

Some one told me that the

Spoiler

zora

one was easiest. Dang it

 

[Inferno313]

Usually yeah. Dragon age inquisition had a massive love affair in the OT at first. But with this game it's that good. Look at the complaints though, theyre fairly common and the same

-voice acting is bad (in English)
- story is fairly boring and simplistic. Main campaign as a whole is more of a side content
- master swords mechanics is dumb.
- on the above, plenty still dislike the weapon breaking mechanic.
-it rains way too often and it fucks you over while climbing

Sure, but as someone who is definitely a DA:I "hater", I'm not out there acting like the fans and critics who genuinely loved that game were "blinded by the the hype" or "dishonest." I just disagree with them.

 

[Lilo_D]

All of this is true, but just the fact that the game has puzzles marks it out as different from most open world games. That you actually interact with the world, rather than just moving through it and fighting things. It's the mechanics that are special here rather than the world map itself.

For example: jumping off the top of a waterfall to split a pedestal with a fucking trident. That's the kind of natural interactivity / puzzle that other open world games just don't have. And I do love those other open world games. But the world is a setting rather than a playground.

I actually think the world / map in Zelda is getting too much credit in this thread and elsewhere when the real stars of the show are the mechanics, controls, ruins, enemies, enemy AI, puzzle design, quest design etc.

Saying 'Wow I can actually go to that mountain!' is meaningless - you can do that in any open world game, pretty much. It's what you can DO there that makes it different.

If this game WASN'T open world, but had all the same mechanics, enemy encounters / AI, villages, runes etc, it would easily be the best 3D Zelda of all time. I think that gets lost here.

But in anther perspective, those mechanics, puzzles and encounters are added just because we have the open world first. I think the good physics engine add one more layer on those open world game, make the interactivity more natural and interesting

 

[silva1991]

What's the size of this game?

4 days ago I was told the game will be available today. Today they told it will be here in another 4 days -__-

I'm so getting it digital at this point.

 

[Vanguard771]

Just as general tip you can break ore with any club weapon. It doesn't have to be the hammer.

 

[Loci]

Can I somehow check if I got all the chests in a

Spoiler

Titan

before leaving?
is there a little chest symbol next to the name like with shrines?

 

[brandonh83]

Saying 'Wow I can actually go to that mountain!' is meaningless - you can do that in any open world game, pretty much. It's what you can DO there that makes it different.

This is a problem I've always had with games that tout that you can go anywhere-- you get there and there's nothing special. The allure of Zelda, I think, or partially is that Hyrule is a very mysterious place drowned in secrets. You want to explore because of the mythical land and what you might find. And this game is absolutely nailing all of that.

Like so far nine times out of ten if I see something that might be of interest off in the distance and I spend minutes traversing to it, collecting things along the way, kicking moblin ass along the way and getting their shit, and when I get there, there's usually something really cool. A shrine or two along the way at the very least. Sometimes more.

And sometimes, like yesterday, I ran into some extremely amazing stuff. I think The Witcher III did a good job of having a big world where you can pretty much go anywhere that didn't feel empty and I enjoyed that, but having this game as a huge Zelda fan since the original is just immense.

I'll tell you something else they nailed too, I mean totally nailed-- ever since the original, I've always associated northern Hyrule with mountainous, rocky terrain and a sense of desolation. So yesterday I was like okay, I'm going up there, to the opposite side of Death Mountain. I need to see if they did this right. They did it right.

Then I capped off my session last night with

Spoiler

getting the Master Sword and finding the bird village in an Evergreen forest

environment that is just completely beautiful. This game is literally everything.

 

[Busaiku]

Did anyone else get weird slowdowns/freezes with the Moblins on Death Mountain?
Like after knocking them over, the game stopped completely for like a second or 2.
I was able to replicate thus consistently.

 

[PancakeBurglar]

I prefer the NPCs and dialogue in this game. The writing is better.

It's a close one, I think majora's mask has such a strange, weird cast of characters and lots of side quests that really develop them and their sad and tragic stories. While breath of the wild has a large diverse cast of charming characters that have lots of little details and world interactions. I love some of the designs too, the rito elder and goron elder made me laugh with how funny their designs were. Yesterday I was in gerudo town and exploring the roof water ways and saw melon crusts floating down the river and followed the trail to an npc in the back of town just chilling eating melons, small thing but it adds to charm of the world.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Man, this game and a new baby do not mix well. So much to do and discover it's almost overwhelming to play in the short bursts I get.

Had it since Friday and still haven't finished the first four shrines. Stuck because

Spoiler

I can't make it up the snowy mountain without dying. I'm looking for boar to hunt to get meat so make the recipe that gets me the cold weather coat from the old man, but can't find any more.

Spoiler

birds also give you meat that you can cook that recipe with.

 

[En-ou]

Are there any uses for luminous stone? I've just been trading it so far. Quickest way I've found to get rupees

Yes

Spoiler

You can trade 10 for 1 diamond

 

[Inferno313]

So does the chest symbol next to a shrine on the map mean I've still got treasure in there that I haven't found, or that I have found all of the treasure in that shrine?

 

[Chaos17]

Usually yeah. Dragon age inquisition had a massive love affair in the OT at first. But with this game it's that good. Look at the complaints though, theyre fairly common and the same

-voice acting is bad (in English)
- story is fairly boring and simplistic. Main campaign as a whole is more of a side content
- master swords mechanics is dumb.
- on the above, plenty still dislike the weapon breaking mechanic.
-it rains way too often and it fucks you over while climbing

There is a weather forecast icon, seriously people you just need to watch it and start a fire when you see it's gonna rain, period.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

There is a weather forecast icon

say what

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Sure, but as someone who is definitely a DA:I "hater", I'm not out there acting like the fans and critics who genuinely loved that game were "blinded by the the hype" or "dishonest." I just disagree with them.

Oh no for sure. Some issues also don't arise until you spend more time with the game. Like things that at first you don't pay much attention to become more common and you realize this is an actual problem/annoyance. Always safer to wait for the honeymoon period to be over. But with this title I can safely say that even with the honeymoon period it'll still be considered among the best of the year. Probably among the best of Zelda titles. For me it's already the best

 

[DiabloTheGrey]

You only have the register the horse at one stable to have it brought to you at any stable? And you don't have to return it to the stable for that to work? I didn't know this.

But the fact I didn't know this has led me to do more horseback exploration for fear of abandoning my horse in the middle of nowhere.

I just realized this last night myself.

I have 3 horses registered and I left one way on the opposite side of the map. I figured I'd get back to it when I was over that way. Was pleasantly surprised to find out that the Horse Stables will retrieve it for you even if it isn't boarded.

 

[Griss]

But in anther perspective, those mechanics, puzzles and encounters are added just because we have the open world first. I think the good physics engine add one more layer on those open world game, make the interactivity more natural and interesting

No, I couldn't disagree more. You could totally take, say, Twilight Princess and move the mechanics from this game into that one wholesale and make the game 10 times more than what it is.

And vice versa, they could have made this huge map and had Link control like TP link with the same old bow, boomerang, hookshot and the same brain-dead and easy enemies and dull Zelda caves as side content and it would have been terrible. Not only that, but the latter example is pretty much exactly what I was expecting from the game which is why I was so utterly taken aback by the genius it actually is.

 

[PillarEN]

It amazes me how many people

Spoiler

miss the Zora helm because they just hurry up to get shock arrows and then head to the Divine Beast without searching Toto Lake for the helm.

That's me

Thanks for the tip though. I'll acquire it now.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

There is a weather forecast icon, seriously people you just need to watch it and start a fire when you see it's gonna rain, period.

I play this game in pro mode. I try not to check any unnecessary gauges that I think take away from the experience. Link does body cues for his cold/hot status anyways

The issue arises that it still rains way too often and eventually you might run out of flint if you aren't constantly mining

 

[DrArchon]

There is a weather forecast icon, seriously people you just need to watch it and start a fire when you see it's gonna rain, period.

Yeah, but then you miss out on that sweet sweet immersion that you get with the Pro HUD.

 

[m051293]

All of this is true, but just the fact that the game has puzzles marks it out as different from most open world games. That you actually interact with the world, rather than just moving through it and fighting things. It's the mechanics that are special here rather than the world map itself.

For example: jumping off the top of a waterfall to split a pedestal with a fucking trident. That's the kind of natural interactivity / puzzle that other open world games just don't have. And I do love those other open world games. But the world is a setting rather than a playground.

I actually think the world / map in Zelda is getting too much credit in this thread and elsewhere when the real stars of the show are the mechanics, controls, ruins, enemies, enemy AI, puzzle design, quest design etc.

Saying 'Wow I can actually go to that mountain!' is meaningless - you can do that in any open world game, pretty much. It's what you can DO there that makes it different.

If this game WASN'T open world, but had all the same mechanics, enemy encounters / AI, villages, runes etc, it would easily be the best 3D Zelda of all time. I think that gets lost here.

Yes, the world itself still has plenty of room for improvement.

The game's immersion stems from the depth of it's interactivity mechanics, but the world itself just feels like a giant (brilliantly designed) level.

They nailed the "living, breathing, aspect due to the degree to which Link can interact with the world/characters/environments and due to how Link feels like another cog within the world, rather than the one around whom the world operates.

BUT, the look/layout/feel of the world does not feel like it's quite "living and breathing", it just feels like a giant level portioned off into giant sub-levels.

I think this (and narrative) yields the biggest room for improvement in future titles. I want to see if they can reconcile creating a setting that feels more alive, akin to other open-world titles, while retaining/refining the gameplay mechanics/interactability. Currently, it seems like these two design philosophies are at odds, but personally I think it's more of a logistical problem than a structural one (the volume of labor that would need to go into crafting and reconciling a game world with both of these ideas seems overwhelming).

 

[Nocturnowl]

So this is something I've been wondering for a while now but does the champions tunic actually make a complete clothing set with anything?

 

[Effigenius]

Only problem is the contents often go flying all over the place.

True. I am planning to experiment with that. Plant the bomb further away so the oar is just within its blast and maybe it doesnt go as far?

 

[PillarEN]

I just realized this last night myself.

I have 3 horses registered and I left one way on the opposite side of the map. I figured I'd get back to it when I was over that way. Was pleasantly surprised to find out that the Horse Stables will retrieve it for you even if it isn't boarded.

Yep. I once fell with a horse into the water and was wondering "well... I guess that's that". But yeah I then realized I could board them regardless of where they are.

 

[sora87]

You can have the stable fetch your horse for you even if the horse is already Taken Out and a hundred miles away.

Taking Out a different horse from the stable also makes them fetch and store the horse you previously had out, if any.

Ohhh I see, cheers for clearing that up for me

 

[Anustart]

Ughhhh, more than 2 hours into this downloading. Finished the download, now estimating an hour to install.

How big is the update after this finishes? 3gb?

 

[PancakeBurglar]

Rain depends on the area, Faron and Necula rain the most from my experience but many of the western and northern regions don't seem to rain all that often.

 

[marrec]

Saying 'Wow I can actually go to that mountain!' is meaningless - you can do that in any open world game, pretty much. It's what you can DO there that makes it different.

I agree 100% with your post and this is a good summary of at least part of the reason Zelda is so successful as an open world game compared to other games.

Instead of "you see that mountain, you can actually go to it" Zelda tells you "you see that mountain, you will actually WANT to go to it". In most open world games the world itself becomes rather tedious as the shallow mechanics show you that the only thing that'll be on that mountain off in the distance is some mats for crafting. In Zelda, you literally don't know what you can expect once you reach the summit of some mountain in the distance.

And even if you come upon the rare instance that the mountain-top doesn't have anything, it's still useful for a vantage point, to see the next summit (real or figurative) and to mark your map. It's amazingly effective and puts other open world games to shame.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Here is a question, do rods ever break from normal spell casting use? The only times I've had a rod break on me is when I accidentally smacked it on enemies enough times.

 

[LotusHD]

Here is a question, do rods ever break from normal spell casting use? The only times I've had a rod break on me is when I accidentally smacked it on enemies enough times.

They do.

 

[enoirmeplz]

Diamonds, son.

Also dyes.

You'll need 10 of them for a quest. I usually sell minerals though

Yes

Spoiler

You can trade 10 for 1 diamond

Thanks!

 

[Busaiku]

Can you actually fight

Spoiler

the dragons

?

Spoiler

Hit it with an arrow and didn't see a health bar.

 

[Griss]

Yes, the world itself still has plenty of room for improvement.

The game's immersion stems from the depth of it's interactivity mechanics, but the world itself just feels like a giant (brilliantly designed) level.

They nailed the "living, breathing, aspect due to the degree to which Link can interact with the world/characters/environments and due to how Link feels like another cog within the world, rather than the one around whom the world operates.

BUT, the look/layout/feel of the world does not feel like it's quite "living and breathing", it just feels like a giant level portioned off into giant sub-levels.

I think this (and narrative) yield the biggest room for improvement in future titles. I want to see if they can reconcile creating a setting that feels more alive, akin to other open-world titles, while retaining/refining the gameplay mechanics/interactability. Currently, it seems like these two design philosophies are at odds, but personally I think it's more of a logistical problem than a structural one (the volume of labor that would need to go into crafting and reconciling a game world with both of these ideas seems overwhelming).

You and I are on the exact same page, my man.

When I was giving my impression pre-release and was telling people that the game doesn't feel like a real 'world' like other open world games but rather a huge level, people were struggling to get what I meant. It reminds me of WoW zones in a lot of ways. I don't believe in the natural topography of this land in the way I do in a GTA, Witcher 3 or Horizon. And on top of that the weak texture work kills that immersion further, though the great art and particle effects often obscure this in practice.

It doesn't matter much, in the end, because the world is designed to be fun and memorable and it is both. Perhaps if they had made it feel more 'real' there would only be more gaps between interesting landmarks and quest locations. They clearly made a conscious decision to design the land around whatever quest they were putting in a location at the time rather than vice versa, and with the way the game turned out how can I sit here and say that they were wrong?

 

[Not Spaceghost]

They do.

Geez they last a really long time then lol.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Can anyone spoil tag for me if there is any importance to taking a photo and recording data on everything? It's kind of annoying to stop what I'm doing and take a photo and if there is nothing substantial I will stop doing it

 

[LotusHD]

I agree 100% with your post and this is a good summary of at least part of the reason Zelda is so successful as an open world game compared to other games.

Instead of "you see that mountain, you can actually go to it" Zelda tells you "you see that mountain, you will actually WANT to go to it". In most open world games the world itself becomes rather tedious as the shallow mechanics show you that the only thing that'll be on that mountain off in the distance is some mats for crafting. In Zelda, you literally don't know what you can expect once you reach the summit of some mountain in the distance.

And even if you come upon the rare instance that the mountain-top doesn't have anything, it's still useful for a vantage point, to see the next summit (real or figurative) and to mark your map. It's amazingly effective and puts other open world games to shame.

That's why I don't get the complaints about it being empty or too spacious. I think it's exciting to see something off in the distance that grabs your attention. From the landmarks like the volcano and the castle, to the shrines and towers, etc. It's deliberately designed that way so that it compels you to want to go and check it out.

 

[brandonh83]

BUT, the look/layout/feel of the world does not feel like it's quite "living and breathing", it just feels like a giant level portioned off into giant sub-levels.

I mean, it's still a videogame. With all due respect to your opinion, for me personally I'm thrilled that they did an open world game yet it still feels like "levels." I don't really want Zelda getting too realistic. I think having the environments like they are in this game gives it a sense of variety and keeps the traversal interesting enough.

Like I get what you're saying, but I feel like this is about as far as I need them to take an open world Zelda. I already think the world might be too big in fact. But then again I'm more of a fan of level design rather than giant open worlds. It's why I loved Skyward's environments so much, they felt like big levels to me.

The open world they've made here is kind of like other open worlds, but with that Nintendo touch where despite how big it is, it still feels like it has "sections" but again for me that gives it the variety and "color" that I want out of the series. I don't really want to see something like Witcher's world in Zelda, those aren't really the same kinds of things IMO.

I like that it kind of feels like if you were to take say Super Metroid's map, where you have Brinstar, Norfair, Maridia, etc but mashed them together in this massive, seamless 3D space. Each area provides its own feel and theme. A lot of other open worlds feel VERY samey.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Can anyone spoil tag for me if there is any importance to taking a photo and recording data on everything? It's kind of annoying to stop what I'm doing and take a photo and if there is nothing substantial I will stop doing it

it's just for completion / using the sensor upgrade to hunt down items you have photographed.

I only photograph things I am actively looking for.

 

[ChemicalCutthroat]

There is a weather forecast icon, seriously people you just need to watch it and start a fire when you see it's gonna rain, period.

I dunno man, I was in Akalla last night

Spoiler

trying to restart the forge for the Tech Lab

, and it rains there almost constantly. I'd build a fire, rest for a bit, then I'd get up and it is still raining, and the forecast says MORE RAIN COMIN'.

Plus finding a place to build a fire was a PITA as well, since there weren't too many covered spots.

Not really a complaint, but I was shaking my fist at the rain gods angrily for a good while. I think that Akalla is just naturally super rainy.

 

[marrec]

You and I are on the exact same page, my man.

When I was giving my impression pre-release and was telling people that the game doesn't feel like a real 'world' like other open world games but rather a huge level, people were struggling to get what I meant. It reminds me of WoW zones in a lot of ways. I don't believe in the natural topography of this land in the way I do in a GTA, Witcher 3 or Horizon. And on top of that the weak texture work kills that immersion further, though the great art and particle effects often obscure this in practice.

It doesn't matter much, in the end, because the world is designed to be fun and memorable and it is both. Perhaps if they had made it feel more 'real' there would only be more gaps between interesting landmarks and quest locations. They clearly made a conscious decision to design the land around whatever quest they were putting in a location at the time rather than vice versa, and with the way the game turned out how can I sit here and say that they were wrong?

I said this earlier in the thread but it reminds me most of a theme park, something carefully crafted and aping a reality but surreal and fantastical, with one part of the park leading naturally to the next via visible landmarks. It feels like everything is precisely made, which is why you see most people doing Zora first instead of one of the other dungeons.

 

[VistraNorrez]

No, I couldn't disagree more. You could totally take, say, Twilight Princess and move the mechanics from this game into that one wholesale and make the game 10 times more than what it is.

And vice versa, they could have made this huge map and had Link control like TP link with the same old bow, boomerang, hookshot and the same brain-dead and easy enemies and dull Zelda caves as side content and it would have been terrible. Not only that, but the latter example is pretty much exactly what I was expecting from the game which is why I was so utterly taken aback by the genius it actually is.

You are right that they could have done that, but they didn't. It didn't occur to them. That's the important point you are missing. They designed BotW the way they did because the world was so large. The mechanics and overworld are a pair. These mechanics don't exist without the open world and the open world doesn't work without the mechanics.

In future games they will undoubtedly take the lessons learned here and adapt them to new experiences (like all Zelda games), but they wouldn't have gotten here in the first place without all the decisions that went into BotW.

 

[Kinsei]

I just finished my second dungeon (the Goron one). This dungeon was better than the Zora one and the boss was much better than the Zora one's boss. I did slightly prefer the lead up to the Zora dungeon though. I must say I am greatly enjoying these dungeons and they've given me more trouble than any Zelda dungeon has since Majora's Mask.

The

Spoiler

baby Goron wearing a construction hat

is the cutest thing ever.

 

[Splash Wave]

Can anyone offer any tips for getting better at combat? I'm finding myself getting one-shotted constantly, and this might be because I hardly have any armor--but this is because I almost never have any money. In general, I find it extremely hard to effectively dodge enemy attacks, and I'm often spotted from a pretty long distance, ruling out stealth.

I'm not very far:

Spoiler

on the climb up to the Zora homeland

.