Support NeoGAF

[solecon64]

While the opinions of these hack parasites can never change the actual quality of the games, it's always good to remember that we don't hate "journalists" enough.

 

[Represent.]

Art style makes this simply unplayable for me.

 

[Rob_27]

Digital foundry - everything good apart from the framerate. Fluctuates. between 60 and 30

Still got it coming tomorrow though. £39.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Perfectly fine, people are too obsessed with 90+ anways.

 

[Robb]

I assume Wand of Gamelon was a perfect 100?

Only if we add a minus sign in front of the score.

 

[ssringo]

Digital foundry - everything good apart from the framerate. Fluctuates. between 60 and 30

Think I'll wait for the inevitable Switch 2 port and hope they stabilize that framerate. Jesus that's an awful fps range.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Looking forward to this one. I have a feeling it will satisfy me with Dungeons and Puzzles that I crave using the Echo system which I feel in ways is similar to how you can interact with things in Golden Sun with Psynergy.

The way you can't just go ham in combat situations requires you to think a little and get creative and I think that's a welcome change that will set Zelda apart from Link.

I expect you will start out weak initially but your toolset will make you more powerful later on.

 

[Natsuko]

That sounds good. I'm still undecided as to whether I should buy. I've been waiting forever for a Zelda with Zelda as the protagonist. But Metaphor is coming soon. Damn.

I actually wanted to wait a few months.

 

[Sojiro]

Really looking forward to this, while I like the large BotWs and TotKs games, I don't want to see these smaller scale dungeon focused Zelda's disappear, and it will be nice to return to that form even if your main attack is different. I think Nintendo can do a lot of creative things with the echoes system, and I look forward to diving into it.

 

[Hookshot]

Does this release at midnight UTC? I'm not usually off work for releases so I don't know what time on the 26th it's supposed to be

 

[proandrad]

Game should have been called The Legend of Link.

 

[Danjin44]

Very excited to play this, the gameplay looks super to play.

 

[Azelover]

Got a 35 on Famitsu.

10, 9, 8, 8

Decent..

 

[Robb]

I don't want to see these smaller scale dungeon focused Zelda's disappear

Seems like they won’t. There’s a pretty neat interview with devs at both Nintendo and Grezzo about it.

Actually, I've always wanted to establish a 2D top-down Legend of Zelda series that's separate from the 3D entries like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. The game style and how it feels are completely different when the world is viewed in 3D from behind the character to when the world is viewed from a top-down perspective. We wanted to cherish that kind of diversity in the Legend of Zelda series.

Apparently the game was also practically a “Zelda Maker” (Mario Maker type game) at one point:

We were exploring a few different ways to play the game in parallel. In one approach, Link could copy and paste various objects, such as doors and candlesticks, to create original dungeons. During this exploration phase, this idea was called an "edit dungeon" because players could create their own Legend of Zelda gameplay

 

[Sojiro]

Seems like they won’t. There’s a pretty neat interview with devs at both Nintendo and Grezzo about it.



Apparently the game was also practically a “Zelda Maker” (Mario Maker type game) at one point:

Oh awesome! I never saw that they were intending to have the two different styles coexist, because I firmly believe both styles can and should continue to be made, so I am glad to see them commit to that idea.

 

[Robb]

Oh awesome! I never saw that they were intending to have the two different styles coexist, because I firmly believe both styles can and should continue to be made, so I am glad to see them commit to that idea.

Yeah, I think this might be the first time they’ve straight up said that’s how they want things to proceed.

I’m very happy to hear that, love both styles. Same with Metroid or Mario etc. They offer very different experiences.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Metacritic comparison for anyone interested:

1. Ocarina of Time (99)
2. Breath of the Wild (97)
3. Windwaker (96)
3. Tears of the Kingdom (96)
4. Twilight Princess (95)
4. Majora's Mask (95)
4. A Link to the Past + Four Swords -GBA- (95)
7. Skyward Sword (93)
7. A Link to the Past -SNES- (93)
9. Oracle of Seasons/Ages
10. A Link Between Worlds (91)
11. Link's Awakening (90)
11. Phantom Hourglass (90)
11. Windwaker Remaster (90)
13. The Minish Cap (89)
14. Spirit Tracks (87)
14. Link’s Awakening Remake (87)
15. Four Swords Adventures (86)
15. Twilight Princess Remaster (86)
16. The Legend of Zelda (84)
17. Skyward Sword Remaster (81)
18. The Adventure of Link (78)
19. Triforce Heroes (73)

the fun part is that once the honey moon phase of a Zelda game ends, reviewers actually score the game without the nostalgia glasses on, just look at the scores of the launch titles ( inflated scores ) and the remasters ( grounded scores )

 

[Robb]

the fun part is that once the honey moon phase of a Zelda game ends, reviewers actually score the game without the nostalgia glasses on, just look at the scores of the launch titles ( inflated scores ) and the remasters ( grounded scores )

I think that’s just how it goes with most remasters. I have a hard time thinking of any game with huge critical acclaim that has had a remaster matching or outscoring it.

Something as simple as a what would be considered a poor visual upgrade on current hardware would be enough to drag down the score of a remaster, for example.

 

[SpiceRacz]

Been sitting on the game since last Saturday. Going to wake up early this weekend and spend the day playing it.

 

[jshackles]

Who is making the OT?

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Metacritic comparison for anyone interested:

1. Ocarina of Time (99)
2. Breath of the Wild (97)
3. Windwaker (96)
3. Tears of the Kingdom (96)
4. Twilight Princess (95)
4. Majora's Mask (95)
4. A Link to the Past + Four Swords -GBA- (95)
7. Skyward Sword (93)
7. A Link to the Past -SNES- (93)
9. Oracle of Seasons/Ages
10. A Link Between Worlds (91)
11. Link's Awakening (90)
11. Phantom Hourglass (90)
11. Windwaker Remaster (90)
13. The Minish Cap (89)
14. Spirit Tracks (87)
14. Link’s Awakening Remake (87)
15. Four Swords Adventures (86)
15. Twilight Princess Remaster (86)
16. The Legend of Zelda (84)
17. Skyward Sword Remaster (81)
18. The Adventure of Link (78)
19. Triforce Heroes (73)

Unpopular opinion but Wind Waker was not that good. I'd put it somewhere between Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask. And Skyward Sword should be toward the bottom (straight up abomination). Haters gonna hate.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Art style makes this simply unplayable for me.

Tag checks out again.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

Gameplay looks so great!
What do you like the most about this game, NeoGAF?
Graphics-style is enhancing gameplay so much for me

 

[Bloobs]

This will shut up the purple crowd hopefully.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Gameplay looks so great!
What do you like the most about this game, NeoGAF?
Graphics-style is enhancing gameplay so much for me

It's a new Zelda game that isn't BotW/TotK(I like them but I missed proper dungeons) and has traditional Dungeons. And it's Zelda's first official outing. Gameplay looks very fun.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I am sure the game is fine. Double dipped since Nintendo DESERVES it...

 

[SEGAvangelist]

While the opinions of these hack parasites can never change the actual quality of the games, it's always good to remember that we don't hate "journalists" enough.

Dude just liked Legion. Gosh!

 

[Anthony Soprano]

I don't understand how the game gets 8, 9 and 10 scores when it suffers from constant overworld stutters. The bar is low.

 

[solecon64]

Gameplay looks so great!
What do you like the most about this game, NeoGAF?
Graphics-style is enhancing gameplay so much for me

Yeah, I replayed Link's Awakening 2019 last week, and it just reminded me how well this art style mixes with the simple gameplay of 2D Zelda. It just creates such a cute pairing, I feel like every single action is enhanced by it.

Just falling of a high surface and going *boop* when you land with these characters is so cute!

 

[RoadHazard]

Think I'll wait for the inevitable Switch 2 port and hope they stabilize that framerate. Jesus that's an awful fps range.

The reason that happens is because, like a lot of Nintendo games (and like the LA remake I believe), it's using double buffered v-sync. That means that if performance drops at all, even just to 59fps, the refresh rate will drop right down to 30. It cannot refresh at anything between 30 and 60.

(I haven't actually watched the DF video yet, but I assume that's what's going on.)

 

[Germuso]

Even Nintendo is woke, this and the Peach game.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

It's a new Zelda game that isn't BotW/TotK(I like them but I missed proper dungeons) and has traditional Dungeons. And it's Zelda's first official outing. Gameplay looks very fun.

It looks to me that Zelda as playable character is the next step for these series.
Gamers are always mentioning these traditional dungeons as I have noticed, why are they so important for you?

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Art style makes this simply unplayable for me.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

I don't understand how the game gets 8, 9 and 10 scores when it suffers from constant overworld stutters. The bar is low.

Are you playing the leaked illegal copy? If i recall most Zelda games have a day one patch....

 

[Ainem Enamas]

Yeah, I replayed Link's Awakening 2019 last week, and it just reminded me how well this art style mixes with the simple gameplay of 2D Zelda. It just creates such a cute pairing, I feel like every single action is enhanced by it.

Just falling of a high surface and going *boop* when you land with these characters is so cute!

I like how Nintendo is managing the style of how they are approaching making these games

 

[Robb]

Gamers are always mentioning these traditional dungeons as I have noticed, why are they so important for you?

I personally just miss the complexity and the formula of acquiring important gear that is then used to defeat the dungeon boss.

The shrines in BotW/TotK are great, but they’re intended to be very bite sized. And the “dungeons” in those games all follow the same formula. Zelda dungeons used to be relatively more complex and interesting.

I’m curious to see what they’ve done in this game. But I hope they continue to move more towards ‘real’/classic dungeons in the next 3D entry.

 

[semiconscious]

digital trends:

Echoes of Wisdom’s best parts are the ones that break away from what’s expected. My favorite moments largely happen in Still World rifts, where I need to carve my own path through twisted snippets of Hyrule’s world using echoes. I’m attuned with Zelda most when I find a large gap I can’t pass, but realize I can get to the other side by grabbing hold of a flying tile with my bind ability and following its path. In clever puzzle platform moments like that, I feel like I'm tapping into her third of the Triforce; I’m using her wisdom to meet any challenge that arises. And I’m doing that by drawing on her connection to all things within her kingdom and communicating her eternal royalty through tangible play...

that does it! i've just gotta start taking my zelda games more seriously...

 

[MagiusNecros]

It looks to me that Zelda as playable character is the next step for these series.
Gamers are always mentioning these traditional dungeons as I have noticed, why are they so important for you?

Dungeons leading to a new powerup or piece of gear to either add a new gameplay element or to increase the power of your character has been a staple in Zelda for a long time. In the same way in Metroid or Megaman you often acquire a new ability upon beating a boss to either deal with enemies easier or making movement and traversal improved. Or as explained above the whole dungeon is a series of puzzles where the item you acquire is integral to defeating the boss by discovering it's weakness with the item you just acquired.

BotW/TotK gives you your big tools early and Dungeons and Bosses never really improve your character only finding HP/Stamina powerups. It mainly fell down to the player finding stuff in the Overworld or all your gear being loot or just bought at shops.

BotW/TotK felt more like a Elder Scrolls or Fallout experience rather then a Zelda one. I also was not a fan of Item Durability. Especially on weapons like the Master Sword.

If there are two iconic games that have defined Zelda it is always going to be Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. And most just want the "same games" in a "different setting" that builds upon and expands on the gameplay that those games provide.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

Are you playing the leaked illegal copy? If i recall most Zelda games have a day one patch....

If you like spinning around in the overworld and cutting grass, you’ll notice pretty frequent frame drops. Hebra Mountain and the Gerudo Desert also suffer, where sandstorms and snow make things feel choppy. Inside buildings and in dungeons, the game is silky-smooth, which makes the frequent overworld stutters (in docked and handheld) even more noticeable.

Source: https://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/nintendo-switch/the-legend-of-zelda-echoes-of-wisdom

Overall score 9/10, more of the same Link's Awakening remake poor performance bullshit.

I don't understand why they don't just make the game run well and shit up the graphics a little more, it's not like the graphics are anything special when it comes to the limitations of this art style, anyway.

 

[Kamina]

Just started playing, feels good from the first moment and i am sure it will remain that way

 

[Dafegamer]

You know the Industry is fucked when some reviews are knocking off points for a Zelda game being "more Traditional". BOTW and TOTK are masterpieces, but traditional zelda dungeons are missed with their progression system -_-

 

[Kamina]

You know the Industry is fucked when some reviews are knocking off points for a Zelda game being "more Traditional". BOTW and TOTK are masterpieces, but traditional zelda dungeons are missed with their progression system -_-

The sooner we get rid of corrupt games journalism like IGN and co the better

 

[Ainem Enamas]

Dungeons leading to a new powerup or piece of gear to either add a new gameplay element or to increase the power of your character has been a staple in Zelda for a long time. In the same way in Metroid or Megaman you often acquire a new ability upon beating a boss to either deal with enemies easier or making movement and traversal improved. Or as explained above the whole dungeon is a series of puzzles where the item you acquire is integral to defeating the boss by discovering it's weakness with the item you just acquired.

BotW/TotK gives you your big tools early and Dungeons and Bosses never really improve your character only finding HP/Stamina powerups. It mainly fell down to the player finding stuff in the Overworld or all your gear being loot or just bought at shops.

BotW/TotK felt more like a Elder Scrolls or Fallout experience rather then a Zelda one. I also was not a fan of Item Durability. Especially on weapons like the Master Sword.

If there are two iconic games that have defined Zelda it is always going to be Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. And most just want the "same games" in a "different setting" that builds upon and expands on the gameplay that those games provide.

Excellent insights, now I know
How would a Zelda game be like if it would combine all those things (like open world, old dungeon structure... everything gamers want and still to fit in the modern-style game structure)

 

[Ainem Enamas]

I personally just miss the complexity and the formula of acquiring important gear that is then used to defeat the dungeon boss.

The shrines in BotW/TotK are great, but they’re intended to be very bite sized. And the “dungeons” in those games all follow the same formula. Zelda dungeons used to be relatively more complex and interesting.

I’m curious to see what they’ve done in this game. But I hope they continue to move more towards ‘real’/classic dungeons in the next 3D entry.

Do you think they are making another open world Zelda? What's the next step?

 

[protonion]

Just played an hour.
Lovely game!

Much closer to the classic formula that you'd expect. I have not stepped in a dungeon yet, but it has the traditional puzzly overworld that I enjoy.

I don't even miss the sword. So many items and monsters to play with.

Good stuff!

 

[Dafegamer]

It looks to me that Zelda as playable character is the next step for these series.
Gamers are always mentioning these traditional dungeons as I have noticed, why are they so important for you?

People who grew up with Zelda would love if they at least continue that aspect, that was one of the best part of old Zelda games. Finding new items and solving puzzles in unique ways with said puzzles to progress the dungeons. It always had a great sense of accomplishment. BOTW and TOTK is more free for all, or be more creative which is good, but I'd be lying if it's not lacking a huge part of what made Zelda games, Zelda games :/

 

[Moses85]

Got a 35 on Famitsu.

10, 9, 8, 8

Decent..

Fanboys

 

[Dr.brain64]

But despite great first impressions, Echoes of Wisdom eventually unravels into a surprisingly uneven Zelda adventure, which struggles to deliver on its initial promise. By the end, few of the game’s headline mechanics felt like they were utilised to their potential, and, combined with a mostly predictable story and dungeons, this means that it ultimately feels less essential than the series’ other modern 2D entries.

Oof!

 

[bender]

Link to the Past should be a perfect 100

 

[Moses85]

Do you think they are making another open world Zelda? What's the next step?

Hopefully back to the roots (OoT or TP Style) with Dungeons and Middle Age feeling (Not this Robotic, Hightech Style)