Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017

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So you can buy with one tag, play with another tag?

Think you are missing the point, I'm saying that uncommon scenario does not make physical irrelevant.

The most common scenario out there will be one xbox per household.

All these "what ifs" are not going to trump ownership.

You buy the game and any tag on the owner's "home" console can play it. And one non-owner can play it on their home console, and the owner can log in and play on another at the same time, as long as they are net connected every hour or so.

They don't need to be in one household.
 
I didn't ever own PT. I'm pointing out you are reliant on games always being available for redownload. They won't. More accurately exampled in the quote you skirted over there.

Digital is essentially giving up your rights of ownership for convenience.

You ignored price too.

2) you still have to make a claim for your stolen console before you log in.


Eh? Are you sharing a game tag? You can install the same disk on both consoles. Regardless, the ability for a married couple, with 2 xboxes, wanting to play the same game, on two xboxes, at the same time, renders physical media moot? Are you kidding, I really can't tell.

And you are relying on your discs always being functional and present.

The PT situation, a free demo, doesn't make me lose faith in a decade of digital purchases without a loss. I didn't skirt over the Nintendo quote. I just don't do business with Nintendo digitally, because they have a horrible record. That quote isn't pertinent to my experience and certainly doesn't nullify the benefits that I've been enjoying for the last decade.

In my life time (28years) , I've had more damaged/lost/stolen physical games(5-6) than I've had licenses lost (0). There's still time to catch up, but there's no signs this will change. I think a decade without any issues is long enough for me to be confident in the system. I've also purchased way more games in the last 10 years than I have in the previous 18.

The value of 'ownership', in this case, isn't all that valuable to me, since in practice, my ability access games has been virtually unchanged. Actually, my Access has improved if anything.

I never 'ignored' price. I said both methods have benefits. Lower prices is a benefit of physical (that typically become moot if you gameshare).

If your physical games are lost/damage/stolen, you have can't simply recover them. If the same thing happens to your harddrive you just download again. If your entire console is stolen, you're in the same boat in either case.

You can install a single disc on two consoles, but you can't play the game on both consoles simultaneously. If you bought digitally, you could both play at the same time.

So you can buy with one tag, play with another tag?

Think you are missing the point, I'm saying that uncommon scenario does not make physical irrelevant.

The most common scenario out there will be one xbox per household.

All these "what ifs" are not going to trump ownership.

Physical isn't irrelevant.

But that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not digital has benefits... which it clearly does. Just because these scenerarios aren't don't "trump ownership" in your usecase, doesn't make the same true for others. Considering digital is rapidly approaching 40% of all purchases on console, I think it's long past time to stop assuming these scenarios are uncommon.
 
People definitely shouldn't worry about hardware after we've seen what they did with the S. Talking about a big improvement over the first Xbox One. Plus that DF clearly said we will be very happy when they reveal the Scorpio.

I don't believe we should be worried about a fan and noise. I never had that with Xbox One, I never hear my brother about it who has the S. PS4 Pro on the other hand is like a damn jet fighter taking off at his place.
Compare PS4 Slim with PS4 Pro, we could see that difference between XB1 and Scorpio too, more power usually means more heat and better cooling needed.
 
My friend is in the marines and has been all over the world and his xbox is my "home xbox"
and my xbox is his "home xbox"

It has been awesome, we have bought/played a lot more games the past few years because buying one copy means we can both play, its been an awesome feature
Game sharing is one of the best things of this gen. I have a shared account with a friend in Argentina. As he is a reviewer, he gets some games to review and sometimes I help him to review games. In my side, most of the games I buy I put them on that account.
 
And you are relying on your discs always being functional and present.

In my life time (28years) , I've had more damaged/lost/stolen (5-6) than I've had licenses lost (0). There's still time to catch up, but there's no signs this will change.

The value of 'ownership', in this case, isn't all that valuable to me, since in practice, my ability access to games has been virtually unchanged. Actually, my Access has improved if anything.

I never 'ignored' price. I said both methods have benefits. Lower prices is a benefit of physical.

If your physical games are lost/damage/stolen, you have can't simply recover them. If the same thing happens to your hard drive you just download again. If your entire console is stolen, you're in the same boat in either case.

You can install a single disc on two consoles, but you can't play the game on both consoles simultaneously. If you bought digitally, you could both play at the same time.

If you look after your games they'll serve you well. My OG xbox games still work just fine, as do my game boy games from the 80s.
If they are stolen they'll be replaced by the insurance company.
If I fall on hard times they are a commodity I can fall back on. This is a value of ownership, not the ability to re-download at will.
 
So you can buy with one tag, play with another tag?

Think you are missing the point, I'm saying that uncommon scenario does not make physical irrelevant.

The most common scenario out there will be one xbox per household.

All these "what ifs" are not going to trump ownership.


I wasn't stating a 'what if'. I literally described my living situation and why physical makes no sense for me. Turns out several others have similar situations.
 
If you look after your games they'll serve you well. My OG xbox games still work just fine, as do my game boy games from the 80s.
If they are stolen they'll be replaced by the insurance company.
If I fall on hard times they are a commodity I can fall back on. This is a value of ownership, not the ability to re-download at will.

Like I, and others have said- if that works for you- great. That's the value of having options.

My digital games serve me just as well as the physical games you "look after". I've got some games from the 80s that work well and others that don't. Between then and now I've had some lost and stolen. It would be nice to be able to download them and not worry about out. In fact, I have downloaded many of them.

I don't have to worry about insurance companies if something happens to my harddrive.

And the resale value of my games isn't going to do much to help me out of an economic hardship. I'll just plan to stay out of hardship.

What works for you doesn't neccisarily work for others, and vice versa- and that's ok!
 
Compare PS4 Slim with PS4 Pro, we could see that difference between XB1 and Scorpio too, more power usually means more heat and better cooling needed.

Hmmm PS4 Slim is didn't know. That one is more silent?

As for Scorpio. DF did say MS is using special cooling tech for the Scorpio, so maybe that means it won't get as much head and will sound more quiet.
 
Like I, and others have said- if that works for you- great. That's the value of having options.

My digital games serve me just as well as the physical games you "look after". I've got some games from the 80s that work well and others that don't. Between then and now I've had some lost and stolen. It would be nice to be able to download them and not worry about out. In fact, I have downloaded many of them.

I don't have to worry about insurance companies if something happens to my harddrive.

And the resale value of my games isn't going to do much to help me out of an economic hardship. I'll just plan to stay out of hardship.

What works for you doesn't neccisarily work for others, and vice versa- and that's ok!

Each to their own, I'm just stating advantages with physical. Digital has the advantage of convenience (depending on infrastructure), physical has the advantage of inherent value and, in theory, perpetuity. It all depends on what is most important to you as a consumer.
 
Each to their own, I'm just stating advantages with physical. Digital has the advantage of convenience (depending on infrastructure), physical has the advantage of inherent value and, in theory, perpetuity. It all depends on what is most important to you as a consumer.

Which is (basically) what I and everyone else been saying all along.

Though value is subjective- unless we are talking strictly about resale value

And perpetuity is no guarantee in either case seeing as though physical media deteriorates and can be lost and the digital media is subject to licensing

The only reason there was any debate is because you claimed
there are zero advantages to digital other than those 5 seconds it takes to swap a disk.

Which is false
 
Maybe because it's page 85 and I didn't read the 84 previous pages, but why are people debating on the pros of digital licenses vs. physical discs again? Surely, each medium has its and its cons and it's ultimately up to each consumer to choose what medium works best for their lifestyle and interests, no? Trying to argue objectively that one is superior to the other seems like a fool's errand.

I currently own some physical games as well as some downloadable games. I don't tend to buy anything new, so it's rare that I re-sell stuff these days since by the time I buy it, it's already pretty cheap. Most of my buying habits depend on what has a deeper sale. A lot of times it's physical content (Best Buy Gamer's Club helps with that, too). Other times it's digital content.

I hope both media are supported in future consoles going forward, as it would suck for some people to either lose the convenience of digital content or the versatility of physical content. But as far as which one is better? I dunno... "it depends?"
 
Which is (basically) what I and everyone else been saying all along.

Though value is subjective- unless we are talking strictly about resale value

And perpetuity is no guarantee in either case seeing as though physical media deteriorates and the digital media is subject to licensing

The only reason there was any debate is because you claimed there were no benefits to digital at all.

OK, I take that back, original claim was a bit flippant. I should have elaborated.

Physical media will deteriorate, eventually, I'm yet to see it on my 30 year old game boy games, my 15 year old OG xbox games, my 26 year old copy of the Black Album on CD andbmy first DVDs. I'm pretty sure physical games bought today will outlive the server support.


Maybe because it's page 85 and I didn't read the 84 previous pages, but why are people debating on the pros of digital licenses vs. physical discs again?

E3 is a fair bit off...
 
So you can buy with one tag, play with another tag?

Think you are missing the point, I'm saying that uncommon scenario does not make physical irrelevant.

The most common scenario out there will be one xbox per household.

All these "what ifs" are not going to trump ownership.

Yes. When you buy a game on Xbox you get two licenses. One is tied to your Xbox and one is tied to your gamertag. So if you and a family member or housemate set each other's Xbox as your home Xbox it has the license for that Xbox as well as the licenses for the games on the primary logged in gamertag and vice versa. It's a nice thing for those that use it and a clear benefit to going digital.

I prefer a mix of both. I'll get some physical games used for the deals and I'll also get some games on Amazon new if the price discrepancy is big enough. I think Microsoft and Xbox have made it pretty clear that your digital library from 360 onwards will carry on to all future consoles so the fact that I don't have to manage cases for the nearly 500 games I have between Xbox and PS4 is also a huge plus.

That would take up so much room. The majority of those games were bought on deep discount. Both services have some pretty great sales every year.
 
OK, I take that back, original claim was a bit flippant. I should have elaborated.

Physical media will deteriorate, eventually, I'm yet to see it on my 30 year old game boy games, my 15 year old OG xbox games, my 26 year old copy of the Black Album on CD andbmy first DVDs. I'm pretty sure physical games bought today will outlive the server support.

The issue here is having current hardware that will be functional (they don't make 'em like they used to) and/or having a future machine with an optical drive to support physical media. I wouldn't count on either.
 
Each to their own, I'm just stating advantages with physical. Digital has the advantage of convenience (depending on infrastructure), physical has the advantage of inherent value and, in theory, perpetuity. It all depends on what is most important to you as a consumer.

In theory, you could have your digital games in perpetuity as well. Microsoft isn't going to close up shop in our lifetimes and Xbox is still profitable.

Of course, this is all in theory. Best case scenario. Just like the best case scenario of all of your discs avoiding bit rot and other issues.

Cartridges are pretty great though. You also get the added benefit of a heavily reduced footprint so that's great incentive to go physical with handhelds and the switch.
 
OK, I take that back, original claim was a bit flippant. I should have elaborated.

Physical media will deteriorate, eventually, I'm yet to see it on my 30 year old game boy games, my 15 year old OG xbox games, my 26 year old copy of the Black Album on CD andbmy first DVDs. I'm pretty sure physical games bought today will outlive the server support.
.

That's if the deterioration is purely natural.

But things break/get damaged. Whether or not they'll outlive server support remains to be seen.

I know the average longtime gamer has dealt with dozens of cartridges that stopped working (even if you blew on them) and cd's that have gotten scratched. and Obviously there are people who in the last 10years who have dealt with physical damage to games that haven't had their digital licenses revoked.

The perpetuity of access to content we buy isn't guaranteed in either case. But there isnt any evidence that MS is going to close up shop- if they do- I'll have my games for as long as my harddrive lasts physically, and I'll make backups.
 
That's if the deterioration is purely natural.

But things break/get damaged. Whether or not they'll outlive server support remains to be seen.

I know the average longtime gamer has dealt with dozens of cartridges that stopped working (even if you blew on them) and cd's that have gotten scratched. and Obviously there are people who in the last 10years who have dealt with physical damage to games that haven't had their digital licenses revoked.

The perpetuity of access to content we buy isn't guaranteed in either case. But there isnt any evidence that MS is going to close up shop- if they do- I'll have my games for as long as my harddrive lasts physically, and I'll make backups.

Can you backup an xbox hard drive? Interesting.


On a lighter, albeit grain of salt, note

I can, however, confirm through separate trusted sources and leaked docs that at least Star Wars Battlefront 2 will be True 4K native, running at 60 FPS on Project Scorpio

Can't be.


https://www.windowscentral.com/what-were-expecting-microsofts-xbox-e3-2017-conference
 
Hmmm PS4 Slim is didn't know. That one is more silent?

As for Scorpio. DF did say MS is using special cooling tech for the Scorpio, so maybe that means it won't get as much head and will sound more quiet.
PS4 Slim is said to be XB1 silent.
DF said lots of things but remember that most if it was just what MS said to them, they never saw it in action from my understanding. But I'm not too worried tbh, MS know the silence is one of the things gamers like the most about XB1, it would be dumb to risk losing that advantage. Personally I'd rather take a silent box twice as big as XB1 than a loud box the size of a WiiU.
 
I didn't ever own PT. I'm pointing out you are reliant on games always being available for redownload. They won't. More accurately exampled in the quote you skirted over there.

Digital is essentially giving up your rights of ownership for convenience.

You ignored price too.

2) you still have to make a claim for your stolen console before you log in.




Eh? Are you sharing a game tag? You can install the same disk on both consoles. Regardless, the ability for a married couple, with 2 xboxes, wanting to play the same game, on two xboxes, at the same time, renders physical media moot? Are you kidding, I really can't tell.

You have to have digital version tied to an account. You can don't this with a disc. I posted above you can play 1 digital copy on 2 XBOX consoles at same time with digital. With a disc copy you cannot. It will ask for ownership to put disc in. Otherwise, among other things, you could just sell the disc if it didn't require it.

"Are you kidding, I really can't tell." It is not good to try and be smart and correct someone if you are the one that is wrong. Have you researched the life of a disc.
 
People that buy digital obviously aren't the same type of people that sell their games regularly.

It depends. I buy the discs of the games my friend doesn't like and sell those that are not worth keeping, and buy things like Titanfall 2, B1 and Ghost recon digitally
 
But if the need to arises, they can't.

IMO that isn't a good argument. Every game I've ever bought since I was a kid was never sold. I still have my NES, SNES, N64 etc games. I don't sell anything. Someone like me isn't impressed by the ability to sell physical games, so the point is completely lost. The only arguments I understand are 'I like to have something physical' or 'I want to guarantee I can revisit these games in x years', neither of which are important to me personally.
 
I don't "need" a Scorpio because I have an XB1 and a decent PC. That said, I've yet to sell my PS4 from when I got the Pro, and that combined with the XB1 should make a pretty decent dent in the cost of the system... I think.
 
Battlefront II running 4k/60 on Scorpio would be amazing. But I need to see it to be true, unless it's actually 4k checkboard. Either way, about time Frostbite based games look and run better on Xbox.

Considering the game is 720p on Xbox One, I will be very surprised it is native 4K on Scorpio.
 
Can you backup an xbox hard drive? Interesting.

Yeah you can do it 2 ways, 1) copying games from one internal/external to another external via the "manage game" app on the Xbox.

Or if you already have your games in an external you can use a windows app to make a copy of the external.
 
Considering the game is 720p on Xbox One, I will be very surprised it is native 4K on Scorpio.

I'm in the same boat. Unless series improvements to frostbite have gotten Battlefront2 to at least 900p on Xbox I don't see native 4K happening w/o some sacrifices elsewhere
 
Considering the game is 720p on Xbox One, I will be very surprised it is native 4K on Scorpio.

Battlefront 1 ran at 720p. BF1 ran, on the average at, 900p with spikes above that, using a dynamic resolution. I'd say Scorpio will run at 4k if Battlefront 2 runs at 900p or above on XB1.
 
Prediction:
-Scorpio released in the first week or 2 of October
-Same day release date for Forza 7, Assassin's Creed Origins, and big Minecraft update (4K, infinite worlds, mod supports, realms - treated like a 'new' console Minecraft). Maybe bundles.
-$399.99 with no bundle (maybe 1 month of game pass)
-(maybe) $499.99 bigger hdd + game + 1 month game pass
 
Devs need to submit code for certification against October development kit version, so I wouldn't believe it comes in October.

Probably second to third week of November.
 
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