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NBA Finals 2017 |OT| Same As It Ever Was

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eBay Huckster said:
could still be 0-2 if they replaced TT, Irving and Love with cinder blocks

(though the Irving cinder block would probably be a net positive defensively, at least)
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Coming into this series, Cavs fans were claiming Lebron is better than KD, Irving is better than Curry, and Thompson is at least on par with Green/Zaza.

Now, he suddenly needs more help as though it's still Anderson Varejao on the team. This is just getting predictably ridiculous at this point. Not to mention Love is doing as good as you could expect.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Coming into this series, Cavs fans were claiming Lebron is better than KD, Irving is better than Curry, and Thompson is at least on par with Green/Zaza.

Now, he suddenly needs more help as though it's still Anderson Varejao on the team. This is just getting predictably ridiculous at this point. Not to mention Love is doing as good as you could expect.
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no they weren't
 
rambis said:
Um skip the metrics class, I know efg and TS%.

We were talking about the first quarter no? Curry was 2-5 at the end of the first, 2-7 by the half when the game was at its closest plus all those turnovers. In what world is this a good percentage in anyway you slice it? As I said during the game, it was the worse 14pt half I had ever saw.

Game 1?
5-13 at the half when the game was closest.

Nobody cares about empty stats. Curry has only waken up when the team is already up. This would be called front running if it were any other player.
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Game 2, 3rd quarter, 73-70, 10:26 left.

Warriors go on a 10-3 run, with Curry scoring 7 on a three-pointer, layup, and 2 FTs, and assisting on the other 3.

83-73, Cavs call full timeout, 8:53 left.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Coming into this series, Cavs fans were claiming Lebron is better than KD, Irving is better than Curry, and Thompson is at least on par with Green/Zaza.

Now, he suddenly needs more help as though it's still Anderson Varejao on the team. This is just getting predictably ridiculous at this point. Not to mention Love is doing as good as you could expect.
Click to expand...

Please show me where cavs fans were claiming these things.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Coming into this series, Cavs fans were claiming Lebron is better than KD, Irving is better than Curry, and Thompson is at least on par with Green/Zaza.

Now, he suddenly needs more help as though it's still Anderson Varejao on the team. This is just getting predictably ridiculous at this point. Not to mention Love is doing as good as you could expect.
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It's ridiculous. Lebron is better than KD... barely. Then GS wins every other matchup. Plus their bench is insane.

GS is the better team and they're playing like it. Simple as that. Only way Cavs win this series is if they play well AND GS plays poorly. See: last year's finals.
 
I'd stop short of saying the Cavs need more bodies. They just need Kyrie and at least one of the shooters to show up. Despite all the raving about Klays defense, Kyrie is still missing alot of shots he usually makes. The more shots they make the more GS is forced into half court offense which hasn't been stellar.
 
rambis said:
Um skip the metrics class, I know efg and TS%.We were talking about the first quarter no? Curry was 2-5 at the end of the first, 2-7 by the half when the game was at its closest plus all those turnovers. In what world is this a good percentage in anyway you slice it? As I said during the game, it was the worse 14pt half I had ever saw.

Game 1?
5-13 at the half when the game was closest.

Nobody cares about empty stats. Curry has only waken up when the team is already up. This would be called front running if it were any other player.
Click to expand...

If you know efg and ts%, why are you ignoring them? You keep mentioning his regular field goal percentage which, as I stated, ignores the fact that threes are more valuable and doesn't account for free throws. Saying he was 2 for 5 in the first quarter and claiming he was bad is flat out wrong.

First off, one of his three missed field goals was a full court heave as the buzzer sounded.

Secondly, he hit a three in the first quarter, so his 2 for 5 is actually 2 and a half out of 5 based on efg (50%). I also don't penalize guys for attempting full court shots.

And finally, he was 10 for 10 from the free throw line! That matters. It was a close game and he drew fouls and made the free throws. You can't pretend that didn't happen.

I agree he didn't play well in the second quarter of game 2. But we're talking about 1 bad quarter out of 8.

The 5 of 13 in game 1's first half included two threes, which again, based on efg makes him 6 of 13 (There's nothing terrible about that).

And for the third time, you're argument ignores the 2nd half of both games. The Cavs are a capable team with a lot of firepower that can come back. Curry's performance in both second halfs prevented any comeback from being possible. That is valuable. Saying a players performance when their team is up 10 doesn't matter ignores the possibility of a comeback from the other team.
 
It's pretty amazing that rambis is essentially saying that a player's performance in the second half where they started to pull away is less important than how they played in the first half while it was close.
 
Boogs31 said:
And for the third time, you're argument ignores the 2nd half of both games. The Cavs are a capable team with a lot of firepower that can come back. Curry's performance in both second halfs prevented any comeback from being possible. That is valuable. Saying a players performance when their team is up 10 doesn't matter ignores the possibility of a comeback from the other team.
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not to mention this:

mashoutposse said:
Game 2, 3rd quarter, 73-70, 10:26 left.

Warriors go on a 10-3 run, with Curry scoring 7 on a three-pointer, layup, and 2 FTs, and assisting on the other 3.

83-73, Cavs call full timeout, 8:53 left.
Click to expand...

haven't seen rambis comment on this yet. flies in the face of the narrative that curry is only good when they're up by 10 or more.
 
the cavs would never come back against a superior warriors team in the finals after losing the first 2 games in golden state
 
mashoutposse said:
Game 2, 3rd quarter, 73-70, 10:26 left.

Warriors go on a 10-3 run, with Curry scoring 7 on a three-pointer, layup, and 2 FTs, and assisting on the other 3.

83-73, Cavs call full timeout, 8:53 left.
Click to expand...

Cavs brought the lead back down to 4 after this. What did Curry do in this time? Hell what did he do the rest of the quarter?

If you know efg and ts%, why are you ignoring them? You keep mentioning his regular field goal percentage which, as I stated, ignores the fact that threes are more valuable and doesn't account for free throws. Saying he was 2 for 5 in the first quarter and claiming he was bad is flat out wrong.

First off, one of his three missed field goals was a full court heave as the buzzer sounded.

Secondly, he hit a three in the first quarter, so his 2 for 5 is actually 2 and a half out of 5 based on efg. I also don't penalize guys for attempting full court shots.

And finally, he was 10 for 10 from the free throw line! That matters. It was a close game and he drew fouls and made the free throws. You can't pretend that didn't happen.

I agree he didn't play well in the second quarter of game 2. But we're talking about 1 bad quarter out of 8.

The 5 of 13 in game 1's first half included two threes, which again, based on efg makes him 6 of 13.

And for the third time, you're argument ignores the 2nd half of both games. The Cavs are a capable team with a lot of firepower that can come back. Curry's performance in both second halfs prevented any comeback from being possible. That is valuable. Saying a players performance when their team is up 10 doesn't matter ignores the possibility of a comeback from the other team.
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Because I fail to see why him missing a 3 versus a 2 is of any note when the game is close. Is there some pts you get off of opportunity cost that I'm unaware of? I ignore the FT's because a lot of the calls were BS. 3FTs off a fucking half court chuck, FOH. Hitting gimme FTs doesn't excuse you sucking ass from the field.

For the 3rd time I don't care about empty stats. My whole point is why is it frontrunning when another player starts to explode up double digits and not when Curry does. Hint, EFG and TS% doesn't answer this.
 
rambis said:
Cavs brought the lead back down to 4 after this. What did Curry do in this time? Hell what did he do the rest of the quarter?



Because I fail to see why him missing a 3 versus a 2 is of any note when the game is close. Is there some pts you get off of opportunity cost that I'm unaware of? I ignore the FT's because a lot of the calls were BS. 3FTs off a fucking half court chuck, FOH. Hitting gimme FTs doesn't excuse you sucking ass from the field.

For the 3rd time I don't care about empty stats. My whole point is why is it frontrunning when another player starts to explode up double digits and not when Curry does. Hint, EFG and TS% doesn't answer this.
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Lol my god man are you serious? Just stop. Basketball is a game of runs. Is Bron trash when he goes passive and does nothing? No it's 5v5 Curry isn't supposed to take every shot every possession.
 
I'm just glad as a Cavs fan we won last year. As soon as I heard KD was going to Golden State, that was my initial reaction. Without the win last year, the Cleveland Drought and Cavs having no championships could have gone on for years. As I expected, KD destroyed us. It would have been nice to have Bogut for more than 58 seconds for defensive purposes, but that still wouldn't have been enough. A lot of people here were hoping or expecting the Finals to be a meeting of two juggernauts to make up for crappy playoffs, but I'm afraid there is only one juggernaut. These Finals are for Warriors fans or anyone who likes seeing one team obliterate all others and maybe go 16-0.

I honestly just wanted to see the Cavs compete and not get blown up, but they couldn't manage that. They at least came out on fire, but Lebron and others just wore themselves down and the Warriors D wore them down. Lebron had nothing in the end. They aren't playing THAT bad all things considered and are just heavily outmatched. That said, they really need to improve on defense, certain players like JR have been terrible, and Kyrie has had flashes of brilliance, but he would need a game 5 last year where he and Lebron scored 40 each to beat this team. Oh, and not allowing them to have 132 freaking points would help. I'll just hope for avoiding a sweep at this point.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
I have no idea what he is arguing. It's really bizarre.
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Curry is inconsistent when the game is close and front runs when they are up. Didn't realize this was so complex a concept..

Exploratory said:
Lol my god man are you serious? Just stop. Basketball is a game of runs. Is Bron trash when he goes passive and does nothing? No it's 5v5 Curry isn't supposed to take every shot every possession.
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Lebron is the main one who gets called frontrunner. Not sure I would hedge the argument on him.
 
rambis said:
Cavs brought the lead back down to 4 after this. What did Curry do in this time? Hell what did he do the rest of the quarter?



Because I fail to see why him missing a 3 versus a 2 is of any note when the game is close. Is there some pts you get off of opportunity cost that I'm unaware of? I ignore the FT's because a lot of the calls were BS. 3FTs off a fucking half court chuck, FOH. Hitting gimme FTs doesn't excuse you sucking ass from the field.

For the 3rd time I don't care about empty stats. My whole point is why is it frontrunning when another player starts to explode up double digits and not when Curry does. Hint, EFG and TS% doesn't answer this.
Click to expand...

at this point you just seem to be trolling

rambis said:
Curry is inconsistent when the game is close and front runs when they are up. Didn't realize this was so complex a concept..
Click to expand...

well you did get proven wrong over and over again using relevant data points that you seem to be hand waving or blatantly ignoring

that might help explain why your narrative is a difficult one to adhere to
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Twitter.
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The thing I thought always made sense was that Durant never had Lebron's kind of teams. Sure, Lebron is a player that is viewed as more capable of making those around him better. I can't disagree there. However, when Durant isn't at a disadvantage in terms of the talent around him, I think he excels or potentially even exceeds Lebron because he's always been a better natural shooter. He has that amazing height on him, the ability to do things if he's aggressive defensively that make him truly unique considering what he's able to do on the offensive end.

The series isn't over, but we may be discovering that a Kevin Durant who isn't suffering from a team related talent gap compared to his competition, is probably right up there or better than the best in the world. He's a straight up monster right now in these finals. I also did believe that if Golden State took that first game this series was likely over, and I believe it more now. This isn't like last year. This game demonstrated that Golden State needs to make a mountain of idiotic decisions just for the Cavs to have a chance against their kind of talent, team play and firepower. Imagine what this game would have been like without all those silly hero/lazy passes from Golden State early? We'd be looking at a 30-40 point beatdown with the game being over much sooner.
 
rambis said:
Because I fail to see why him missing a 3 versus a 2 is of any note when the game is close. Is there some pts you get off of opportunity cost that I'm unaware of?
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It's not the missed shots that matter, it's the shots he makes. The 2 shots he made in the first quarter of game 2 included 1 three. Which means his 2 makes have MORE value than 2 made baskets. You're only concentrating on his misses, it's his makes that improve his ts% and efg. You clearly don't understand how those stats work.
 
When Lonzo saves this league y'all will stop arguing semantics about Curry, LBJ, and KD

Wednesday is his workout with the Lakers and Game 3

Tomorrow is gonna be Pokemon Stars reveal

Next week is E3

Even if this is a sweep, I'm feeling damn good
 
FZZ said:
When Lonzo saves this league y'all will stop arguing semantics about Curry, LBJ, and KD

Wednesday is his workout with the Lakers and Game 3

Tomorrow is gonna be Pokemon Stars reveal

Next week is E3

Even if this is a sweep, I'm feeling damn good
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I think the question will be can the Lakers hold GS under 150 points when they draft Ball.
 
phanphare said:
at this point you just seem to be trolling



well you did get proven wrong over and over again using relevant data points that you seem to be hand waving or blatantly ignoring

that might help explain why your narrative is a difficult one to adhere to
Click to expand...

In discussing Curry's play during close games your arguments are hedging on the fact that he eventually wakes up and scores a bunch points yet my argument is hard to follow. Gotcha.


Boogs31 said:
It's not the missed shots that matter, it's the shots he makes. The 2 shots he made in the first quarter of game 2 included 1 three. Which means his 2 makes have MORE value than 2 made baskets. You're only concentrating on his misses, it's his makes that improve his ts% and efg. You clearly don't understand how those stats work.
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LOL the missed shots are the entire point. If you don't get that then you clearly don't understand what is being discussed.
Bread said:
so are you faulting Curry for not being a front runner at that point?
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Disappearing while the game is close...
 
rambis said:
Disappearing while the game is close...
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you should follow this quote chain lol

rambis said:
In discussing Curry's play during close games your arguments are hedging on the fact that he eventually wakes up and scores a bunch points yet my argument is hard to follow. Gotcha.
Click to expand...

your argument is hard to follow because, to be blunt, it's a bunch of made up bullshit

as has been proven multiple times in this thread
 
Real hot take question

Could 04 Pistons beat this Warriors team? or are they unequipped to deal with the perimeter

Tom Penny said:
I think the question will be can the Lakers hold GS under 150 points when they draft Ball.
Click to expand...

Other way around bih

Lonzo has Curry range and he's only 19

the development gonna be real

Big like Klay, shoots like Steph

Lonzo "Buddy 'Steph Curry in the Clutch' Hield" Ball
 
rambis said:
Cavs brought the lead back down to 4 after this. What did Curry do in this time? Hell what did he do the rest of the quarter?



Because I fail to see why him missing a 3 versus a 2 is of any note when the game is close. Is there some pts you get off of opportunity cost that I'm unaware of? I ignore the FT's because a lot of the calls were BS. 3FTs off a fucking half court chuck, FOH. Hitting gimme FTs doesn't excuse you sucking ass from the field.

For the 3rd time I don't care about empty stats. My whole point is why is it frontrunning when another player starts to explode up double digits and not when Curry does. Hint, EFG and TS% doesn't answer this.
Click to expand...

This is the weirdest tangent ever, dude.

FZZ said:
Real hot take question

Could 04 Pistons beat this Warriors team? or are they unequipped to deal with the perimeter
Click to expand...

No.

FZZ said:
Other way around bih

Lonzo has Curry range and he's only 19

the development gonna be real

Big like Klay, shoots like Steph

Lonzo "Buddy 'Steph Curry in the Clutch' Hield" Ball
Click to expand...

Your Lonzo stanning is long past played out, my man. Shit's gotta stop.
 
phanphare said:
you should follow this quote chain lol



your argument is hard to follow because, to be blunt, it's a bunch of made up bullshit

as has been proven multiple times in this thread
Click to expand...

Please point to these posts because all I see are cheap deflections onto matters that I'm not even discussing...
 
FZZ said:
Other way around bih

Lonzo has Curry range and he's only 19

the development gonna be real

Big like Klay, shoots like Steph

Lonzo "Buddy 'Steph Curry in the Clutch' Hield" Ball
Click to expand...

Dude, you reeeeeeaaaaaallly need some perspective on Ball, otherwise you are gonna be in for a disappointing season.

Ball is not a sure bet and I say this as

1) a Laker fan
2) a huge fan of Lonzo when he was in Westwood
 
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