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[Drencrom]

They're drawing attention to an issue.

Drawing attention to a serious issue by simply shoehorning two colors onto the pride flag and undermine the whole point of the flag?

Why not actually do something of real value to highlight the issues and discrimination of POC instead? I guess it's a "start" but it comes off as very superficial.

 

[Yado]

I don't see anything wrong with this. It's not like it will somehow erase the existence of the popular rainbow flags.

 

[royalan]

No, it doesn't make sense at all actually.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a brown, gay man. There is much to be said about how people of color are treated in the LGBT community. That is, not particularly well; there is a clear higharchy: whites at the top, blacks at the bottom and everyone else in between. I do believe this needs to be tackled, and that it often gets swept under the rug.

I do not like this new flag however. In fact, I might just actively hate it. The first reason is a bit shallow: its ugly. You have the rainbow.... and then black and brown. It doesn't fit and it doesn't really look nice.

The second, more important reason is that the pride flag does not explicitly include ethnicites and thats the point. Its supposed to be a sign of welcome for everyone. This betrays that completely. By adding black and brown, they are taking away from that underlying theme.

What about Asians (Which itself is a group of a wide range of unique cultures) ? What about Latinos? First Nations? Shouldn't they get representation here too? Thats the problem this flag introduces, and its a problem the original avoids by design. The original flag implicitly includes everyone by explicitly including no one. This flag explicitly includes only two groups and therefore explicitly excludes everyone who doesn't get their own color. I see this as leading to quite the slippery slope where everyone else needs their own color on one flag and suddenly we have just as many colors as we have in the LGBT*.... acronym (which is to say, a lot).

Different ethnic groups are not supposed to have their own color on the flag because it betrays the point of the flag, which is to unify. This divides. This reminds us how fractured the LGBT community is. Now, maybe to some thats a good thing. It shows people how far we have to go. But that turns it into a symbol of negativity, wheres its supposed to by a symbol of happiness and well, pride.

As a gay black man living in Philadelphia, let me tell you why I think this makes sense, at least for our city.

Philadelphia is one of the growing number of major metropolitan cities in this country that is also majority minority. Particularly, black and brown people (black people alone make up over 44% of the city's population). You're thinking that black and brown is implied by the actual colors of the original rainbow flag, but as someone who lives here, is very active in the community, and experiences gay life here day-to-day, let me tell you that my response to that is a big fat "Fucking LOL."

The gay community in general has its issues with race, but Philadelphia's gay community in particular is one of the most segregated communities I've ever experienced. For a city full of black people, it's not at all uncommon to see only a handful of black people in the Gayborhood (the name of our gay district) at any given time. And speaking to a lot of gay people of color in this city, it's not at all uncommon to feel unwelcome in the Gayborhood. Bars, bartenders, bouncers openly discriminate against you. I have been refused service in gay bars in this city. I have been out with white friends who have actually had to call this out.

And the timing of this flag is no coincidence, because this subject has come up a lot lately.

Brian Sims, a Pennsylvania House Rep who serves the Gayborhood, recently wrote an op-ed about it: Gayborhood's 'Dangerous' Climate

Last year, the owner of iCandy, one of the Gayborhood's largest clubs, had a disgruntled former employee release a video of him looking at security footage and calling all of the black patrons "niggers who just want free drink passes." This one stung me personally, because I was a regular at this bar, knew the owner personally, and never once stepped into the place unprepared to pay for my drinks and tip handsomely. I haven't been back to this bar since this happened.

Also last year, there was a hearing in the city specifically on racial discrimination in the Gayborhood. It was attended by hundreds.

And recently Tavern on Camack, another popular bar/club, had a mass firing over a series of incidents that I don't know the details of. But to this day there is now a notice posted at the entrance to the bar announcing that ToC is a bar for everyone, and racial intolerance will not be accepted from anyone, patrons or staff (I'm paraphrasing, obviously).

And let me not even get STARTED on the absence of PoC participation in Philly's queer/pride festivals.

The point is, by amending the flag, Philly's not just making a statement on the gay community as a whole, it's more directly addressing a symptom of our community not being particularly accepting of queer PoC. It'll take more than adding a few stripes, but it's appreciated.

 

[Escape Goat]

Drawing attention to a serious issue by simply shoehorning two colors onto the pride flag and undermine the whole point of the flag?

Why not actually do something of real value to highlight the issues and discrimination of POC instead?

Yes. That's exactly the point. The black and brown are impossible not to see.

 

[Transhuman]

I don't see anything wrong with this. It's not like it will somehow erase the existence of the popular rainbow flags.

"Why aren't you using the new flag? Don't you respect people of colour!"

That's why. Being a minority has so much less to do with sexuality than being gay, lesbian, bi or trans.

 

[Yado]

Drawing attention to a serious issue by simply shoehorning two colors onto the pride flag and undermine the whole point of the flag?

Why not actually do something of real value to highlight the issues and discrimination of POC instead? I guess it's a "start" but it comes off as very superficial.

Just looked her up

The Mayor’s Office officially announced on Monday that Amber Hikes, a black queer woman, will be the new executive director of the Office of LGBT Affairs.

I think it safe to assume she'll be doing more than shoehorning two colours onto a flag.

 

[Drencrom]

No, it doesn't make sense at all actually.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a brown, gay man. There is much to be said about how people of color are treated in the LGBT community. That is, not particularly well; there is a clear higharchy: whites at the top, blacks at the bottom and everyone else in between. I do believe this needs to be tackled, and that it often gets swept under the rug.

I do not like this new flag however. In fact, I might just actively hate it. The first reason is a bit shallow: its ugly. You have the rainbow.... and then black and brown. It doesn't fit and it doesn't really look nice.

The second, more important reason is that the pride flag does not explicitly include ethnicites and thats the point. Its supposed to be a sign of welcome for everyone. This betrays that completely. By adding black and brown, they are taking away from that underlying theme.

What about Asians (Which itself is a group of a wide range of unique cultures) ? What about Latinos? First Nations? Shouldn't they get representation here too? Thats the problem this flag introduces, and its a problem the original avoids by design. The original flag implicitly includes everyone by explicitly including no one. This flag explicitly includes only two groups and therefore explicitly excludes everyone who doesn't get their own color. I see this as leading to quite the slippery slope where everyone else needs their own color on one flag and suddenly we have just as many colors as we have in the LGBT*.... acronym (which is to say, a lot).

Different ethnic groups are not supposed to have their own color on the flag because it betrays the point of the flag, which is to unify. This divides. This reminds us how fractured the LGBT community is. Now, maybe to some thats a good thing. It shows people how far we have to go. But that turns it into a symbol of negativity, wheres its supposed to by a symbol of happiness and well, pride."

Agreed, the simple and honestly genius design and message of the pride flag is gone with this iteration. It really comes of as a superficial stunt imo

Yes. That's exactly the point. The black and brown are impossible not to see.

Aren't there more minorities beside black/brown people that face discrimination in the LGBT community? Why do they don't get a color too?

 

[Skellig Gra]

I refuse to believe that a gay person came up with a flag that looks so....tacky.

Probably same person who designed this flag

 

[royalan]

Agreed, the simple and honestly genius design and message of the pride flag is gone with this iteration.

Simple and genius...

The gay pride flag is only as old as the 70s, and has changed multiple times since then. And even to this day some places can't get the order of the colors right.

It's important symbolism, but it's hardly sacred. Additional stripes have been added to represent specific locations and movements before.

But, considering how passionate you are on this subject, I'm assuming you already knew this.

 

[BriGuy]

Probably same person who designed this flag

That flag has a brown stripe on it now too. Where Trump wiped his ass with it.


Edit: just so I'm not misunderstood, my point is Trump is no ally of the LGBT community.

 

[double jump]

Edit : didn't known the order of the colors meant something. I wasn't trying to disrespect.

 

[Ekai]

As a gay black man living in Philadelphia, let me tell you why I think this makes sense, at least for our city.

Philadelphia is one of the growing number of major metropolitan cities in this country that is also majority minority. Particularly, black and brown people (black people alone make up over 44% of the city's population). You're thinking that black and brown is implied by the actual colors of the original rainbow flag, but as someone who lives here, is very active in the community, and experiences gay life here day-to-day, let me tell you that my response to that is a big fat "Fucking LOL."

The gay community in general has its issues with race, but Philadelphia's gay community in particular is one of the most segregated communities I've ever experienced. For a city full of black people, it's not at all uncommon to see only a handful of black people in the Gayborhood (the name of our gay district) at any given time. And speaking to a lot of gay people of color in this city, it's not at all uncommon to feel unwelcome in the Gayborhood. Bars, bartenders, bouncers openly discriminate against you. I have been refused service in gay bars in this city. I have been out with white friends who have actually had to call this out.

And the timing of this flag is no coincidence, because this subject has come up a lot lately.

Brian Sims, a Pennsylvania House Rep who serves the Gayborhood, recently wrote an op-ed about it: Gayborhood's 'Dangerous' Climate

Last year, the owner of iCandy, one of the Gayborhood's largest clubs, had a disgruntled former employee release a video of him looking at security footage and calling all of the black patrons "niggers who just want free drink passes." This one stung me personally, because I was a regular at this bar, knew the owner personally, and never once stepped into the place unprepared to pay for my drinks and tip handsomely. I haven't been back to this bar since this happened.

Also last year, there was a hearing in the city specifically on racial discrimination in the Gayborhood. It was attended by hundreds.

And recently Tavern on Camack, another popular bar/club, had a mass firing over a series of incidents that I don't know the details of. But to this day there is now a notice posted at the entrance to the bar announcing that ToC is a bar for everyone, and racial intolerance will not be accepted from anyone, patrons or staff (I'm paraphrasing, obviously).

And let me not even get STARTED on the absence of PoC participation in Philly's queer/pride festivals.

The point is, by amending the flag, Philly's not just making a statement on the gay community as a whole, it's more directly addressing a symptom of our community not being particularly accepting of queer PoC. It'll take more than adding a few stripes, but it's appreciated.

I appreciate your perspective on this at the very least.

I do think more should be proactively done but I suppose this is a start? I wonder how much it will trigger the racists among the cis white gay dudes. If they will even be open to starting a discussion is up in the air.

 

[Various Artists]

Lets just do everything

Ya know. I think this would be perfect. It's just science.

 

[gutter_trash]

it's ugly

the old rainbow one is better

 

[Bladenic]

I can't wait for racist white Trump gays to bitch about this

 

[Izuna]

Don't like it.the black can stay but brown looks icky ruins the flag

Sounds like UKIP

 

[K.Jack]

That new flag is fucking wack.

 

[Escape Goat]

Agreed, the simple and honestly genius design and message of the pride flag is gone with this iteration. It really comes of as a superficial stunt imo



Aren't there more minorities beside black/brown people that face discrimination in the LGBT community? Why do they don't get a color too?

It's only about the colors in so far as they grab your attention. They're very distinct from the others. I guess they could have put a shade in for everyone but they're in Philadelphia and the points with two colors.

 

[Osukaa]

I refuse to believe that a gay person came up with a flag that looks so....tacky.

Yeah I have always hated the flag. Its just so bad with those colors already then to add black and brown it really throws the so called "rainbow" off I would not wear anything to do with that abomination.

FashionGayGAF ..... We got work to do

 

[.JayZii]

I'm positive some lgbt person with an art major could have made a less ugly flag.

At least the old rainbow is iconic.

 

[old manatee]

Funky pride flag, people it's bad.

 

[Swig_]

Yes but the rest of the rainbow sorta represents white because white light is just all the colors combined

So even in electromagnetic radiation white people can't recognize they are represented everywhere

If you're using additive color. If you're using subtractive color, it's black.

Gotta up your color theory game, son.

 

[Alienfan]

No thanks, that's one ugly flag, that undermines the whole point of the original flag. As a supplementary flag to remind people of the issues POC face in the community, I'm on board.

 

[Clancy]

100% behind this.

 

[KorrZ]

It looks awful lol.

Also just kind of feels unnecessary? I've always been under the assumption that the original flag represented LGBT right for everyone, without the need to specify race.

Then again, I'm certainly not going to try to speak for the LGBT community.

 

[kitchenmotors]

I refuse to believe that a gay person came up with a flag that looks so....tacky.

Same, it's tacky.

As a brown gay man, I feel the original flag is fine. I appreciate the message though, it's tough being a brown gay man in a white gay world.

 

[royalan]

I appreciate your perspective on this at the very least.

I do think more should be proactively done but I suppose this is a start? I wonder how much it will trigger the racists among the cis white gay dudes. If they will even be open to starting a discussion is up in the air.

As a statement of intent, it's definitely a start. More needs to be done, obviously. But activists in the city have really been working to address the Gayborhood's race problem, especially since the election.

 

[RastaMentality]

I refuse to believe that a gay person came up with a flag that looks so....tacky.

lol @ thinking gay men can't be incredibly tacky too.


Black people get treated like garbage in the gay community. if this helps some cis white men realize what's going on, i have no qualms.

 

[royalan]

A collection of different rainbow flag variants. I've even seen a few not listed here.

But I wonder why people are so upset about this particular one...

 

[Escape Goat]

lol @ thinking gay men can't be incredibly tacky too.

Drag queens are the epitome of class, nuance and civility.

 

[Ekai]

A collection of different rainbow flag variants. I've even seen a few not listed here.

But I wonder why people are so upset about this particular one...

Seen some of those, haven't seen some others. Fair point tho. Why? hmm.






Also, can I just say as a side note: I find it weird that the site lists the trans flags under sexual orientation? : /

 

[Count Dookkake]

Should also throw a rainbow on the BLM flag.

 

[Miles X]

If this is just an alternate, what's the problem? I don't think they're trying to reinvent the LGBT flag.

Never been a fan of the original anyway.

lol @ thinking gay men can't be incredibly tacky too.


Black people get treated like garbage in the gay community. if this helps some cis white men realize what's going on, i have no qualms.

Gay people get treated like shit in the black community as well, I see shit all being done about that.

I'm calling shit on the generalisation as well, I see a lot of black representation at pride events around the world and they seem welcomed. There is a lot of racism in the gay community but a lot of people welcome them too. I see jack shit about POC talking up LGBT rights within their community.

 

[neojubei]

As a gay black man living in Philadelphia, let me tell you why I think this makes sense, at least for our city.

Philadelphia is one of the growing number of major metropolitan cities in this country that is also majority minority. Particularly, black and brown people (black people alone make up over 44% of the city's population). You're thinking that black and brown is implied by the actual colors of the original rainbow flag, but as someone who lives here, is very active in the community, and experiences gay life here day-to-day, let me tell you that my response to that is a big fat "Fucking LOL."

The gay community in general has its issues with race, but Philadelphia's gay community in particular is one of the most segregated communities I've ever experienced. For a city full of black people, it's not at all uncommon to see only a handful of black people in the Gayborhood (the name of our gay district) at any given time. And speaking to a lot of gay people of color in this city, it's not at all uncommon to feel unwelcome in the Gayborhood. Bars, bartenders, bouncers openly discriminate against you. I have been refused service in gay bars in this city. I have been out with white friends who have actually had to call this out.

And the timing of this flag is no coincidence, because this subject has come up a lot lately.

Brian Sims, a Pennsylvania House Rep who serves the Gayborhood, recently wrote an op-ed about it: Gayborhood's 'Dangerous' Climate

Last year, the owner of iCandy, one of the Gayborhood's largest clubs, had a disgruntled former employee release a video of him looking at security footage and calling all of the black patrons "niggers who just want free drink passes." This one stung me personally, because I was a regular at this bar, knew the owner personally, and never once stepped into the place unprepared to pay for my drinks and tip handsomely. I haven't been back to this bar since this happened.

Also last year, there was a hearing in the city specifically on racial discrimination in the Gayborhood. It was attended by hundreds.

And recently Tavern on Camack, another popular bar/club, had a mass firing over a series of incidents that I don't know the details of. But to this day there is now a notice posted at the entrance to the bar announcing that ToC is a bar for everyone, and racial intolerance will not be accepted from anyone, patrons or staff (I'm paraphrasing, obviously).

And let me not even get STARTED on the absence of PoC participation in Philly's queer/pride festivals.

The point is, by amending the flag, Philly's not just making a statement on the gay community as a whole, it's more directly addressing a symptom of our community not being particularly accepting of queer PoC. It'll take more than adding a few stripes, but it's appreciated.

Well said. As a gay Black male I agree. The gay community is very racist and gay people hardly talk or want to talk about it.

Should also throw a rainbow on the BLM flag.

Wow. Not surprised to see this posted.

 

[HellforLeather]

lol @ thinking gay men can't be incredibly tacky too.

I was joking...

 

[God Dayumm]

No, it doesn't make sense at all actually.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a brown, gay man. There is much to be said about how people of color are treated in the LGBT community. That is, not particularly well; there is a clear higharchy: whites at the top, blacks at the bottom and everyone else in between. I do believe this needs to be tackled, and that it often gets swept under the rug.

I do not like this new flag however. In fact, I might just actively hate it. The first reason is a bit shallow: its ugly. You have the rainbow.... and then black and brown. It doesn't fit and it doesn't really look nice.

The second, more important reason is that the pride flag does not explicitly include ethnicites and thats the point. Its supposed to be a sign of welcome for everyone. This betrays that completely. By adding black and brown, they are taking away from that underlying theme.

What about Asians (Which itself is a group of a wide range of unique cultures) ? What about Latinos? First Nations? Shouldn't they get representation here too? Thats the problem this flag introduces, and its a problem the original avoids by design. The original flag implicitly includes everyone by explicitly including no one. This flag explicitly includes only two groups and therefore explicitly excludes everyone who doesn't get their own color. I see this as leading to quite the slippery slope where everyone else needs their own color on one flag and suddenly we have just as many colors as we have in the LGBT*.... acronym (which is to say, a lot).

Different ethnic groups are not supposed to have their own color on the flag because it betrays the point of the flag, which is to unify. This divides. This reminds us how fractured the LGBT community is. Now, maybe to some thats a good thing. It shows people how far we have to go. But that turns it into a symbol of negativity, wheres its supposed to by a symbol of happiness and well, pride.



This. It feels like scraps. Like "Ok, sure if you insist, you can have your own special place on the flag, separate from the rest of us"

They.... uhh... left the yellow and the red. Yes, that seems it was on purpose

 

[Via Purifico]

If this is just an alternate, what's the problem? I don't think they're trying to reinvent the LGBT flag.

Never been a fan of the original anyway.



Gay people get treated like shit in the black community as well, I see shit all being done about that.

I'm calling shit on the generalisation as well, I see a lot of black representation at pride events around the world and they seem welcomed. There is a lot of racism in the gay community but a lot of people welcome them too. I see jack shit about POC talking up LGBT rights within their community.

Just like how I see jack shit for POC in the LGBT community?
GLAAD brought up Kerry Washington to talk about homophobia in the black community but I don't see any services for LGBT of color who actually deals with the homophobia on their home turf.


Instead of going with this rebuttal how about acknowledging there is a problem.

 

[Vazra]

At least the flag is serving its purpose and getting people to talk about the issue even if it seems to bother some. Its doing its part on doing visibility to the issues on Philly and even if some are just complaining about the flag stuff it shows how many people care more about the flag than the actual issue going around in Philly and other parts of the US with the POC in the gay community.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

undermine the whole point of the flag

It really doesn't.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Black and brown should have been split up between the top and last line. Otherwise it's a nice idea.

 

[Miles X]

Just like how I see jack shit for POC in the LGBT community?

GLAAD brought up Kerry Washington to talk about homophobia in the black community but I don't see any services for LGBT of color who actually deals with the homophobia on their home turf.


Instead of going with this rebuttal about acknowledging there is a problem.

I didn't say there wasn't a problem though. There clearly is, in both communities. But I must see differently to you. I see a lot of people acknowledging there is a problem, I see people, groups and (some) communities trying to build bridges and like I said, I have seen plenty of visability at pride events.

Maybe I'm lucky and live around good people? I'd say of the gay men I've met over my lifetime, very few have had issues with black gay guys.

I think there is a far bigger problem of POC, but more specifically black men that have a problem with LGBT, than the other way around. But then that's more hand in hand with men in general having a problem. I can't imagine that helps black gay men does it? When their brothers, family and friends are so homophobic. You only have to look at rap, the only genre of music homophobia still exists.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

that doesnt really look good, but I guess thats besides the point.

 

[NH Apache]

A collection of different rainbow flag variants. I've even seen a few not listed here.

But I wonder why people are so upset about this particular one...

Because it is intended to replace the current flag and not just be an alternate like the ones you linked.

At least, that's where the discussion seems to be leading. It isn't like the LGBTQ nation is a government entity with an appointed flag. But if that were the case, there would be a vote and not just nominated by the city of Philadelphia....

 

[Yado]

If this is just an alternate, what's the problem? I don't think they're trying to reinvent the LGBT flag.

Never been a fan of the original anyway.



Gay people get treated like shit in the black community as well, I see shit all being done about that.

I'm calling shit on the generalisation as well, I see a lot of black representation at pride events around the world and they seem welcomed. There is a lot of racism in the gay community but a lot of people welcome them too. I see jack shit about POC talking up LGBT rights within their community.

Isn't that exactly what she's doing? Isn't that what this flag is about?

 

[Phreaker]

I never thought the "old" flag was exclusive and I like the look of the old one better.

 

[royalan]

I'm calling shit on the generalisation as well, I see a lot of black representation at pride events around the world and they seem welcomed. There is a lot of racism in the gay community but a lot of people welcome them too. I see jack shit about POC talking up LGBT rights within their community.

Then by all means, start a thread about it. As a black gay man, I have thoughts on the issue and would participate.

But in the context of this thread? This whataboutism is incredibly transparent...

 

[Miles X]

Isn't that exactly what she's doing? Isn't that what this flag is about?

No. She's laying it all on LGBT's doorstep.

 

[Monocle]

While I like the gesture, It kinda ruins the whole look of the flag.

Same.

A collection of different rainbow flag variants. I've even seen a few not listed here.

But I wonder why people are so upset about this particular one...

Aesthetically, a black and brown stripe tacked onto the end of rainbow colors just doesn't look good. There must be a better design to get the point across.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

Wasn't it already all inclusive since it was a rainbow?

I thought the exact same thing.

 

[Drencrom]

A collection of different rainbow flag variants. I've even seen a few not listed here.

But I wonder why people are so upset about this particular one...

http://i.imgur.com/g1p8XI0.png[img][/QUOTE]

If i'm honest, I've never seen any of these.

I'm gonna concede as it seems people have been tampering and adding colors to represent specific people and areas since the inception of the flag.