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[Via Purifico]

I am not seeing how this supposedly causes divide when there was already a division to begin with. It gets to a point where it only becomes so much where you're ignored and/or told to stop complaining that you want to do something about it.

 

[Miles X]

Then by all means, start a thread about it. As a black gay man, I have thoughts on the issue and would participate.

But in the context of this thread? This whataboutism is incredibly transparent...

Don't try and tar me with a brush, I'm not black but I find racism in the LGBT community disgusting and tragic, what pisses me off is that it's all laid on as LGBT's fault (and yes they are to blame) but so are POC within their community, specifically men.

 

[Yado]

No. She's laying it all on LGBT's doorstep.

She's a queer black woman, the LGBT community is her community, it's not an either or thing.

 

[neojubei]

I didn't say there wasn't a problem though. There clearly is, in both communities. But I must see differently to you. I see a lot of people acknowledging there is a problem, I see people, groups and (some) communities trying to build bridges and like I said, I have seen plenty of visability at pride events.

Maybe I'm lucky and live around good people? I'd say of the gay men I've met over my lifetime, very few have had issues with black gay guys.

I think there is a far bigger problem of POC, but more specifically black men that have a problem with LGBT, than the other way around. But then that's more hand in hand with men in general having a problem. I can't imagine that helps black gay men does it? When their brothers, family and friends are so homophobic. You only have to look at rap, the only genre of music homophobia still exists.

I think there is a far bigger issue of racism in the gay community.

 

[Miles X]

She's a queer black woman, the LGBT community is her community, it's not an either or thing.

Not her, the article, at least how it's written. I hope she takes this to the equivilent on the other side though. Lets see that.

 

[knkng]

I'm fine with the message, but the flag seems a little bit odd to me. Maybe if it was flipped over? Or the colours rearranged somehow? I can't quite explain it, but it's just kind of weird as it is.

 

[neojubei]

Then by all means, start a thread about it. As a black gay man, I have thoughts on the issue and would participate.

But in the context of this thread? This whataboutism is incredibly transparent...

So true.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

With their color's combined they are the old white monolith

 

[Via Purifico]

I think there is a far bigger issue of racism in the gay community.

Yes such as
Prop 8 and blaming the blacks

N bomb thrown at black passerby during prop 8 protests

There's more to choose from.

 

[royalan]

Don't try and tar me with a brush, I'm not black but I find racism in the LGBT community disgusting and tragic, what pisses me off is that it's all laid on as LGBT's fault (and yes they are to blame) but so are POC within their community, specifically men.

...LGBTQ is a group that includes POC. We have every right under this goddamn sun to address the racism in the LGBTQ community.

What you're doing here is basically the queer equivalent of "W-well what about black on black crime!?" which is, again, incredibly transparent.

If you care so much about that issue, make a thread about it. I'd participate. Because right now it seems like you're just trying to divert from the subject that's the topic of this thread.

 

[Yado]

Not her, the article, at least how it's written. I hope she takes this to the equivilent on the other side though. Lets see that.

The fact that people would take umbrage with two colours being added to a fucking pride flag, a flag that has been altered and repurposed countless times at this point instead of acknowledging what she's trying to highlight in the first place is the problem. Ya'll don't want to hear it though.

 

[Miles X]

...LGBTQ is a group that includes POC. We have every right under this goddamn sun to address the racism in the LGBT community.

What you're doing here is basically the queer equivelent of "W-well what about black on black crime!?" which is, again, incredibly transparent.

If you care so much about that issue, make a thread about it. I'd participate. Because right now it seems like you're just trying to divert from the subject that's the topic of this thread.

It can't be transparant because I don't have any hidden opinions. Again, it's great that they want to address it, they should, everyone IN LGBT should. Stop fucking putting words in my mouth because you can't handle what I'm saying.

I don't ever talk about black on black crime FYI.

My issue is how I am always hearing about how mistreated black people are in the lgbt community (that's great, that it's getting exposer) but so very little in the black community about LGBT rights. Fuck a thread, that isn't going to do anything, and I'm not in the black community so I can't say/start any conversation about it IRL.

I feel like LGBT rights for black people would improve immensly if not only LGBT pulled together but the black community as well, that's just the point I'm trying to make here. I feel like it gets overlooked which is why I made the comments.

The fact that people would take umbrage with two colours being added to a fucking pride flag, a flag that has been altered and repurposed countless times at this point instead of acknowledging what she's trying to highlight in the first place is the problem. Ya'll don't want to hear it though.

Fuck off. Already said the flag is fine. She can wave it all day and night.

 

[Via Purifico]

The fact that people would take umbrage with two colours being added to a fucking pride flag, a flag that has been altered and repurposed countless times at this point instead of acknowledging what she's trying to highlight in the first place is the problem. Ya'll don't want to hear it though.

It says a whole lot really and there's an elephant in the room that refuses to be discussed.

 

[RastaMentality]

Gay people get treated like shit in the black community as well, I see shit all being done about that.

I'm calling shit on the generalisation as well, I see a lot of black representation at pride events around the world and they seem welcomed. There is a lot of racism in the gay community but a lot of people welcome them too. I see jack shit about POC talking up LGBT rights within their community.

Yes and? I agree on that point but is that being discussed in this very thread? It isn't. The LGBT community is supposed to be a place where people can escape the hardships of familial treatment towards them and white gays haven't made that a thing.

I feel like LGBT rights for black people would improve immensly if not only LGBT pulled together but the black community as well, that's just the point I'm trying to make here. I feel like it gets overlooked which is why I made the comments.

so black people supporting the LGBT community is gonna fix anti black racism now too? what an idea.

 

[CDX]

I appreciate the message that this flag is trying to bring attention to. Because it is a real issue.

BUT it looks even worse than the standard rainbow flag that's been around forever. And I never thought the rainbow flag was all that hot design wise before. So to see somebody take the time to update it, and for it to just look like that is disappointing.

 

[Omni]

White is Right huh?

lmao

 

[royalan]

It can't be transparant because I don't have any hidden opinions. Again, it's great that they want to address it, they should, everyone IN LGBT should. Stop fucking putting words in my mouth because you can't handle what I'm saying.

I don't ever talk about black on black crime FYI.

My issue is how I am always hearing about how mistreated black people are in the lgbt community (that's great, that it's getting exposer) but so very little in the black community about LGBT rights. Fuck a thread, that isn't going to do anything, and I'm not in the black community so I can't say/start any conversation about it IRL.

I feel like LGBT rights for black people would improve immensly if not only LGBT pulled together but the black community as well, that's just the point I'm trying to make here. I feel like it gets overlooked which is why I made the comments.



Fuck off. Already said the flag is fine. She can wave it all day and night.

Have you considered that the reason you haven't heard much on the subject of gay discrimination within the black community is because, as you just admitted, you're not a part of that subgroup and haven't been tuned into those discussions until now? When you desperately need something to counter with.

Because let me just tell you, you're flat out wrong if you think those discussions don't happen.

It's not that I can't handle what you're saying. It's just that what you're saying is ignorant of the realities of the very community you're attempting to criticize right now.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Wow. Not surprised to see this posted.

It seems in keeping with the message of this change and would probably be better than adding an "All" before the name. I dunno.

 

[Via Purifico]

Have you considered that the reason you haven't heard much on the subject of gay discrimination within the black community is because, as you just admitted, you're not a part of that subgroup and haven't been tuned into those discussions until now? When you desperately need something to counter with.

Because let me just tell you, you're flat out wrong if you think those discussions don't happen.

It's not that I can't handle what you're saying. It's just that what you're saying is ignorant of the realities of the very community you're attempting to criticize right now.

It's much easier to finger wag and tell US what we're doing wrong without actively participating and seeing what actually goes on.

I feel when you do that and then complain about the flag and try to spin it around on POC it shows a certain transparency they shouldn't be shining.

 

[MIMIC]

Makes me think of Germany

 

[blame space]

bad joke

 

[Yado]

It can't be transparant because I don't have any hidden opinions. Again, it's great that they want to address it, they should, everyone IN LGBT should. Stop fucking putting words in my mouth because you can't handle what I'm saying.

I don't ever talk about black on black crime FYI.

My issue is how I am always hearing about how mistreated black people are in the lgbt community (that's great, that it's getting exposer) but so very little in the black community about LGBT rights. Fuck a thread, that isn't going to do anything, and I'm not in the black community so I can't say/start any conversation about it IRL.

I feel like LGBT rights for black people would improve immensly if not only LGBT pulled together but the black community as well, that's just the point I'm trying to make here. I feel like it gets overlooked which is why I made the comments.



Fuck off. Already said the flag is fine. She can wave it all day and night.

You claim to want poc to speak up and that's exactly what she's doing. It's absurd to assume that a queer black woman in her position or black people themselves haven't brought up LGBT issues within the black community.

 

[Vazra]

bad joke

A terrible joke.

 

[adamsapple]

Okay, but if that is the logic than more than one particular "color" is missing.

Lets just do everything

White on top and black on the bottom? Yeah that might go over so well.

White is Right huh?

Surely we can all agree this is a good flag

Black hole, swallowing everything?

 

[soundahfekz]

Okay, but if that is the logic than more than one particular "color" is missing.

I know this comment will be unpopular and Eurogaf here, but the logic should be logic.

bruh who the fuck you know that's green or purple?

We just wanna know

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

If you're using additive color. If you're using subtractive color, it's black.

Gotta up your color theory game, son.

Isn't that just with reflected color, like paint? I was arguing about light, I guess because I think light when I think spectrum. Which of course would be wrong anyway, since this is dyed fabric.

I'm all kinds of wrong all the time, it's what I live with

 

[Sai-kun]

"Why aren't black people talking about this issue!!!"

"Also I'm not black nor in a black community!!!"

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Okay, but if that is the logic than more than one particular "color" is missing.

I know this comment will be unpopular and Eurogaf here, but the logic should be logic.

Do you not know how rainbows are made? Because if you did, you'd know that color isn't missing at all.

 

[Platy]

Yeah it does gives german feels xD

But yeah, one more reason for Janet Mock to be our queen and savior

 

[Volta Mars]

As a gay black man living in Philadelphia, let me tell you why I think this makes sense, at least for our city.

Philadelphia is one of the growing number of major metropolitan cities in this country that is also majority minority. Particularly, black and brown people (black people alone make up over 44% of the city's population). You're thinking that black and brown is implied by the actual colors of the original rainbow flag, but as someone who lives here, is very active in the community, and experiences gay life here day-to-day, let me tell you that my response to that is a big fat "Fucking LOL."

The gay community in general has its issues with race, but Philadelphia's gay community in particular is one of the most segregated communities I've ever experienced. For a city full of black people, it's not at all uncommon to see only a handful of black people in the Gayborhood (the name of our gay district) at any given time. And speaking to a lot of gay people of color in this city, it's not at all uncommon to feel unwelcome in the Gayborhood. Bars, bartenders, bouncers openly discriminate against you. I have been refused service in gay bars in this city. I have been out with white friends who have actually had to call this out.

And the timing of this flag is no coincidence, because this subject has come up a lot lately.

Brian Sims, a Pennsylvania House Rep who serves the Gayborhood, recently wrote an op-ed about it: Gayborhood's 'Dangerous' Climate

Last year, the owner of iCandy, one of the Gayborhood's largest clubs, had a disgruntled former employee release a video of him looking at security footage and calling all of the black patrons "niggers who just want free drink passes." This one stung me personally, because I was a regular at this bar, knew the owner personally, and never once stepped into the place unprepared to pay for my drinks and tip handsomely. I haven't been back to this bar since this happened.

Also last year, there was a hearing in the city specifically on racial discrimination in the Gayborhood. It was attended by hundreds.

And recently Tavern on Camack, another popular bar/club, had a mass firing over a series of incidents that I don't know the details of. But to this day there is now a notice posted at the entrance to the bar announcing that ToC is a bar for everyone, and racial intolerance will not be accepted from anyone, patrons or staff (I'm paraphrasing, obviously).

And let me not even get STARTED on the absence of PoC participation in Philly's queer/pride festivals.

The point is, by amending the flag, Philly's not just making a statement on the gay community as a whole, it's more directly addressing a symptom of our community not being particularly accepting of queer PoC. It'll take more than adding a few stripes, but it's appreciated.

Damn, didn't know it was like that. I ignorantly assumed the inclusiveness... included people of all color. Apparently not.

"Why aren't black people talking about this issue!!!"

"Also I'm not black nor in a black community!!!"

Ha, smh.

 

[Not]

Okay, but if that is the logic than more than one particular "color" is missing.

I know this comment will be unpopular and Eurogaf here, but the logic should be logic.

#AllColorsMatter

I KNOW SOMEONE PROBABLY ALREADY SAID IT BUT I WANT TO TOO

 

[halfbeast]

A collection of different rainbow flag variants. I've even seen a few not listed here.

But I wonder why people are so upset about this particular one...

ooh, I like this one!

it not only represents the LGBTQ+ community it's also about to load Giana Sisters!

 

[sazzy]

I don't like it, but moving the black strip next to the indigo would at least make more sense color-wise.

 

[woopWOOP]

lmao

I... kind of like the added black & brown?
Judging by some of the responses here they probably shouldn't go through with it tho

 

[Monocle]

loooool

 

[Cyanity]

Anything that brings light to the undercurrent of racism in the LGBT community is fine by me. Who cares if you think the flag is ugly? It's not for you.

 

[Transhuman]

The gay community in general has its issues with race, but Philadelphia's gay community in particular is one of the most segregated communities I've ever experienced. For a city full of black people, it's not at all uncommon to see only a handful of black people in the Gayborhood (the name of our gay district) at any given time. And speaking to a lot of gay people of color in this city, it's not at all uncommon to feel unwelcome in the Gayborhood. Bars, bartenders, bouncers openly discriminate against you. I have been refused service in gay bars in this city. I have been out with white friends who have actually had to call this out.

That's fucked. Did they just ignore you at the bar or was it a more explicit "We don't serve black people". Either is fucked.

 

[Zaphrynn]

As a gay black man living in Philadelphia, let me tell you why I think this makes sense, at least for our city.

Philadelphia is one of the growing number of major metropolitan cities in this country that is also majority minority. Particularly, black and brown people (black people alone make up over 44% of the city's population). You're thinking that black and brown is implied by the actual colors of the original rainbow flag, but as someone who lives here, is very active in the community, and experiences gay life here day-to-day, let me tell you that my response to that is a big fat "Fucking LOL."

The gay community in general has its issues with race, but Philadelphia's gay community in particular is one of the most segregated communities I've ever experienced. For a city full of black people, it's not at all uncommon to see only a handful of black people in the Gayborhood (the name of our gay district) at any given time. And speaking to a lot of gay people of color in this city, it's not at all uncommon to feel unwelcome in the Gayborhood. Bars, bartenders, bouncers openly discriminate against you. I have been refused service in gay bars in this city. I have been out with white friends who have actually had to call this out.

And the timing of this flag is no coincidence, because this subject has come up a lot lately.

Brian Sims, a Pennsylvania House Rep who serves the Gayborhood, recently wrote an op-ed about it: Gayborhood's 'Dangerous' Climate

Last year, the owner of iCandy, one of the Gayborhood's largest clubs, had a disgruntled former employee release a video of him looking at security footage and calling all of the black patrons "niggers who just want free drink passes." This one stung me personally, because I was a regular at this bar, knew the owner personally, and never once stepped into the place unprepared to pay for my drinks and tip handsomely. I haven't been back to this bar since this happened.

Also last year, there was a hearing in the city specifically on racial discrimination in the Gayborhood. It was attended by hundreds.

And recently Tavern on Camack, another popular bar/club, had a mass firing over a series of incidents that I don't know the details of. But to this day there is now a notice posted at the entrance to the bar announcing that ToC is a bar for everyone, and racial intolerance will not be accepted from anyone, patrons or staff (I'm paraphrasing, obviously).

And let me not even get STARTED on the absence of PoC participation in Philly's queer/pride festivals.

The point is, by amending the flag, Philly's not just making a statement on the gay community as a whole, it's more directly addressing a symptom of our community not being particularly accepting of queer PoC. It'll take more than adding a few stripes, but it's appreciated.

Thanks for this perspective.

Considering this, I think this flag is a good idea. The lgbt+ black community is highlighting the racism they deal with by adding these colors and starting a conversation. I just learned something new because of this. They are focusing on issues they personally deal with and want improved. This isn't a proposal to change the flag "officially" forever. Some serious whataboutism going on in this thread.

 

[Messofanego]

With the way some people are going off that black and brown don't fit into the flag, it comes off as:

"Actually, it's about ethics of aesthetics"

 

[LinkAndEpona]

More colors the better I always say : )

 

[Monocle]

With the way some people are going off that black and brown don't fit into the flag, it comes off as:

"Actually, it's about ethics of aesthetics"

Nah it really is just fugly.

Equating aesthetic taste to toxic sexism, smh.

 

[Messofanego]

Nah it really is just fugly.

Equating aesthetic taste to toxic sexism, smh.

Focusing on aesthetics over everything else like making black and brown LGBT people recognised clearly on the flag seems like a distraction.

 

[DOWN]

I think the message is on point regardless of the flag aesthetic

 

[Complistic]

 

[squidyj]

Surely we can all agree this is a good flag

that's not a flag it's a rainbow dartboard.

 

[Kurdel]

Considering the people in the global LGBT community, people of colour in developing countries definitely need to feel a part of a global community.

I know this isn't the stated intent of the flag, but that is how I see it.

Spoiler

Also, I doubt this will go anywhere, rainbow here to stay.

 

[Kangi]

Racism in the LGBT community is inexcusably rampant. I support the symbolism of this.

Aesthetically, it's a neutral change to me. Has minor pros and cons. Probably won't see nearly as much use as the standard rainbow colors. But I don't really care about how visually "catchy" a flag is so much as I care about what it represents.

 

[MKIL65]

Gets the message across, which is good. I like it.

I do wonder what my former classmate would think of it though, since he was brown and gay. He would probably criticise it.

 

[Alienfan]

Focusing on aesthetics over everything else like making black and brown LGBT people recognised clearly on the flag seems like a distraction.

PoC are recognised on the flag though, everyone is, that's the entire point of the flag to begin with. There isn't a single stripe for gay people, lesbians or trans. Every single stripe is for everyone. And that gives the flag power in it's simplicity and inclusivity. This flag is effective as a secondary flag (given the long and nasty history of racism within Philadelphia's gay community), we have loads of those, but to replace the current LGBT flag, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[royalan]

PoC are recognised on the flag though, everyone is, that's the entire point of the flag to begin with. There isn't a single stripe for gay people, lesbians or trans. Every single stripe is for everyone. And that gives the flag power in it's simplicity and inclusivity. This flag is effective as a secondary flag (given the long and nasty history of racism within Philadelphia's gay community), we have loads of those, but to replace the current LGBT flag, it just doesn't make sense.

This is a strawman.