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[urge26]

There is really only 1 strike per week (Nightfall).
Otherwise, Strikes may as well be removed from the game entirely. At least the the first game mixed them in as part of the progression. Destiny 2 though, they are literally pointless.

Not necessarily pointless, because I just grinded for Vanguard coins to add a Curtain Call but I get your point.

 

[Spoo]

The saddest thing about the state of Destiny 2 isn't even the myriad of issues with the end-game right now, it's that Bungie *still* hasn't learned how to communicate in a way that can alleviate fears that it's not getting better anytime soon. If Destiny players are good at anything at this point, it's waiting patiently, so hearing "we're listening" is *not* actually a comfort.

What would be a comfort is some acknowledgment of the issues. Like, the creative lead coming out of the woodwork, making a post somewhere, and saying "Hey, dudes, we're hearing you and here are some of our ideas we're testing out: X, Y and Z" The fact that they even have to *ask* for feedback on Twitter is kind of tone-deaf.

Remember when they said they were gonna work on a solution for us to make up for static rolls? Like, what is gonna make that 8th better devils fun to get? They seemed confident. Now I dunno.

 

[Brandon F]

Wasn't the original Destiny also kinda bad its first year? I remember it wasn't until The Taken King expansion until it really hit its groove.

Destiny 2 is a month old. The PC version isn't out for another 2 weeks. I'm sure Bungie will listen to feedback and improve the game over time.

This is Year 4 of Destiny.
They improved in Year 2 yes, but they have kind of scaled back a lot of those lessons in crafting this experience. Hard to really cut them some slack, especially given their 'reboot' amounted to very little forward progress and backpeddling a lot of the mystique and design appreciation that prompted TTK to be so adored.

 

[Bold One]

Wasn't the original Destiny also kinda bad its first year? I remember it wasn't until The Taken King expansion until it really hit its groove.

Destiny 2 is a month old. The PC version isn't out for another 2 weeks. I'm sure Bungie will listen to feedback and improve the game over time.

Destiny 2 is not 'Bad' quite the opposite - its like some people aren't paying attention and are stuck in auto-pilot when it comes to Destiny threads.

Its a good game, its just no longer a grind and some people dont like that

 

[MythicReclaimer]

I don't want more RNG I just want more loot and specific ways to get them.

I don't want to grind a certain strike because my Uriel's Gift isn't dropping with the right perks.

I'm really enjoying Destiny 2 and it works great for my lifestyle now versus when I was a senior in college with a job offer before I even got back on campus. Lol of course I can stay up until 4AM grinding strikes and raids back then. Now, not so much. Destiny 2 change is timely for me but for my Destiny 1 friends I would imagine it feels rough to lose the chase/grind.

I do.

I also want random rolls to return on everything like we had before concerning random drops when playing the game. Raid/Trials weapons should always have fixed perks. Raid/Trials armor should have fixed perks that elevate the gameplay in those modes of play.

I also want every player to be able to go to the vendors and buy what they want/need from the base loot pool (fixed rolls/perks) with Legendary Shards as we have been able to in the past.

I also want the vendors to have weekly rotating static-perk (fixed rolls/perks but changed weekly for variety sake) armor/weapons that every player can purchase with Legendary Shards just as we have been able to in the past.

I also want Clan rewards to go away.

Edit: Main point being there is no reason all of this cannot co-exist thus making every kind of player happy in the long run.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Right. There's no point to doing the raids other than to get the raid weapons themselves. Of course, you also get free raid gear if someone from your clan beats the raid. So, I guess, you don't even need to do the raid for gear. It's just sent to you.

I heard someone say that you only get weapons from the clan gear.

The raid armor, which looks sweet, is only accessible by beating the raid. Same for the Legend of Acrius exotic shotgun which has a questline requiring multiple raids and completing the prestige raid.

The raid is also fun...

 

[BizzyBum]

This is Year 4 of Destiny.
They improved in Year 2 yes, but they have kind of scaled back a lot of those lessons in crafting this experience. Hard to really cut them some slack, especially given their 'reboot' amounted to very little forward progress and backpeddling a lot of the mystique and design appreciation that prompted TTK to be so adored.

Yeah, I'm not trying to defend Bungie because they had a lot to go off of with Destiny 1 and for them to release D2 like this especially with all those people working on it is kind of a joke. Then they have the balls to pack in the "please buy the expansions" slip like they did for D1 right at release. lol

It's like they learned nothing from those 4 years of Destiny 1.

Its a good game, its just no longer a grind and some people dont like that

Eh, give it a time and I'm sure the game will evolve into a big grind over time when more things are added.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Yeah, I'm not trying to defend Bungie because they had a lot to go off of with Destiny 1 and for them to release D2 like this especially with all those people working on it is kind of a joke. Then they have the balls to pack in the "please buy the expansions" slip like they did for D1 right at release. lol

It's like they learned nothing from those 4 years of Destiny 1.



Eh, give it a time and I'm sure the game will evolve into a big grind over time when more things are added.

Destiny 2 is a result of what they learned from destiny 1. The grind of D1 vanilla frustrated and angered many players of the first game who dropped it quickly. As a numbered sequel bungie is trying to win those players back so they can get their money for the expansions and destiny 3.

 

[texhnolyze]

After the Warframe comparison and now this, I guess it's the same as Destiny 1, lacking in content in its first year.

That settles it then. Too bad as I was looking forward to playing it on PC. Maybe next year.

 

[BizzyBum]

Destiny 2 is a result of what they learned from destiny 1. The grind of D1 vanilla frustrated and angered many players of the first game who dropped it quickly. As a numbered sequel bungie is trying to win those players back so they can get their money for the expansions and destiny 3.

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

 

[Bold One]

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

We really don't know and in the end, it puts people looking to get into it off and breeds more toxicity.

Destiny cycle really is fascinating and stupid.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

I don't think it's a lose lose, I just think they overcorrected. There are more ways to entice longer term players than by simply adding random rolls into things.

Diablo is accessible to millions of people yet has a much better system for more involved players. If you want to look on the MMO side, WoW largely is the same (albeit not as accessible as Diablo in my opinion).

 

[Brandon F]

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

I like to think the grind was more or less accepted in D1. People didn't have a problem repeating that same 30 seconds of fun afterall.

The real issue kind of always stemmed from a severe lack of context(grimoire's external to the game), missions, strikes, variety, public events, micro and macro goals. A lot of which was missing en force in vanilla. Basically the gameplay loop cratered when the "backdrop" got repeated far too much with poor hooks in the periphery to keep one invested. Just enough to suspend disbelief and buy into the illusion of this world. TTK largely addressed this stuff.

 

[urge26]

Destiny 2 is not 'Bad' quite the opposite - its like some people aren't paying attention and are stuck in auto-pilot when it comes to Destiny threads.

Its a good game, its just no longer a grind and some people dont like that

Destiny 2 is a good game that took two steps back from a lot of things that made Destiny 1 special to so many people that carried the game through the bad times. The people who "don't like that" are the ones that kept the game alive and relevant. Not to mention the huge chunk of the community who represent the hardcore, the ones that made it a hobby. I sadly have to make a decision as to if I support moving forward, unfortunately being the fanboy I am I've already bought the next DLC's...... Bungo/Actimoney has my cash.

The game is not subscription based, and I can also pull spending money from TessMoney and everything else. I gladly spend money towards supporting all aspects because ultimately Destiny 1 was my home for a long time. That will most likely stop. Tired of being let down on all aspects, and with the lack of communication I'm not surprised we're at this point already.

Hey Luke, money will be kept in my wallet and not thrown at you.

 

[Its Quite Toasty]

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

by rise of iron the grind was in a completely manageable place. I don't think that many people had an issue with it even after the ttk.

 

[Seth Enosh]

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

I think what’s going on here are there are “destiny fans” who played all 3 years of destiny, loved the game, and wanted destiny 2 to be destiny 1.5. Just the same game with more content.

Bungie is trying to get back the people who weren’t “destiny fans”. They said their metrics showed massive numbers of people in the first game hitting level 20 and then quitting immediately. We know that at level 20 in the first game you were immediately presented with a punishing long RNG grind of Strikes to get legendaries, stronger armor, RNG on RNG weapons...

So in destiny 2 the game showers you with exotics and legendaries even as you level up to max level, and every activity is rewarding and can help people keep increasing their level. Public events, lost sectors, strikes, multiplayer, just being in a clan and logging in once a week - whatever you want to do you can do it and progress in the game. The result is that it’s a lot easier to max out if you’ve put 120 hours or more into the game. It feels like they are prioritizing the mass market over destiny fans who loved the punishing grind of the previous games like destiny 1 (Forever 29) or even TTK (it was so hard to get to 310 in launch ttk).

That said I definitely have my own issues with destiny 2 and hope improvements are made . But I don’t want a major increase in grinding especially if it will affect the crucible.

 

[Bold One]

I think what’s going on here are there are “destiny fans” who played all 3 years of destiny, loved the game, and wanted destiny 2 to be destiny 1.5. Just the same game with more content.

More precisely, it would seem they wanted Desinty 1 Year 4. Just a continuation of what they have been playing for the last 3 years.

Really fascinating stuff.

 

[Perineum]

More like Destiny fans wanted a reason to keep playing past 305 light. Max light was just a thing you did in D1 and had a reason to keep playing day in day out.

This game does not.

 

[GlamFM]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I played Destiny since it came out and only started to really enjoy it with House of Wolves. Most of my favorite armor sets and moments came AFTER vanilla.

How is Oryx not a "memorable" raid boss? The hidden Taken King quests. The game finally having a good campaign?

If you think only vanilla Destiny had good armor "places" I dunno what to tell you. That's crazy.

Not crazy at all. That was always my opinion. Y1 Destiny was the best and TTK broke more then it fixed.

As for random rolls, the thing most people can’t seem to agree on, I think a lot could be achieved with a fleshed out mod system.

 

[AlexBasch]

As someone who wouldn't do the raids, much less grind them over and over again because they have other games to play, I see this is a GOOD thing.

Yeah. It seems is another case of "maybe I'm not a fan of the franchise", but I have enjoyed Destiny 2 on my own than I did in 1. I kinda understand why people feel less compelled to gather their best friends group and do social stuff in Destiny, but as someone who enjoys PVP and plays strictly on my own, the game feels amazing to me.

Maybe it's because I'm a very casual player and I don't entirely get the whole loot aspect of it, but here's hoping there's a good place in the middle for the people who love to grind and guys like me who like the game as it is. :/

 

[Eyeron]

This is disconcerting but I am still going through with PC preorder. Just hope Bungie takes feedback to heart and makes adjustments where possible between major content releases.

 

[Raven117]

Not crazy at all. That was always my opinion. Y1 Destiny was the best and TTK broke more then it fixed.

As for random rolls, the thing most people can't seem to agree on, I think a lot could be achieved with a fleshed out mod system.

I do too. I also had the most fun in Year 1...but that was do to alot of factors...I probably would have dropped it if I didn't have so much time on my hands.

While I know it is fools errand to "hope for the next one" with Bungie, I hope Bungie saw this coming and built the DLC specifically to have players who made the climb to 280+ have something to continue to grind for.

I don't think it will ever be too crazy of a grind, but maybe there thought was to get everyone on the same page with a gentle PL curve (for the masses) before they dump some more endgame content on us?

Yeah, got some koolaid over here....

 

[cilonen]

Not crazy at all. That was always my opinion. Y1 Destiny was the best and TTK broke more then it fixed.

As for random rolls, the thing most people can’t seem to agree on, I think a lot could be achieved with a fleshed out mod system.

I'm with you. The most fun I had in Destiny was year 1.

 

[MrBenchmark]

As someone who played since day one D1 and played thousands of hours the current state of D2 is sad. I agree with what is said and i absolutely can't stand the token system playing IB right now first 3 ranks same fusion no IB armor I liked getting gear in end game rewards this token system is shit. I am having a hard time even wanting to play daily and D1 i played every day hell I've played D1 more this week than D2.

 

[140.85]

I don't think it's a lose lose, I just think they overcorrected. There are more ways to entice longer term players than by simply adding random rolls into things.

Diablo is accessible to millions of people yet has a much better system for more involved players. If you want to look on the MMO side, WoW largely is the same (albeit not as accessible as Diablo in my opinion).

It really is as simple at that. They just moved too much in the opposite direction.

 

[BraXzy]

I agree with pretty much every point and it's why I stopped playing after just two weeks. Yes, I played more than the "average" player. But it sure as hell won't take long for them to catch up.

I'm honestly most annoyed by the lack of hidden collectibles. Considering the bigger, prettier areas to explore, it's such a waste that there's no real reason to search in all of the nooks and crannies.

 

[Gold_Loot]

I think many people here are looking at the D1 launch with some heave rose tinted glasses. That game had a very bare campaign, the loot was limited, and the locations were built very thin, leaving little to no room for expansion. Hell I enjoyed it myself, but come on, it was under cooked at the least.

Destiny 2 fixes quite a bit of these problems sure, but I can also agree that Bungie was a bit too “safe” with this game by not adding much to the end game formula. You have to figure that people who are “bored” are the people who have spent 100+ hours in the game already. I would say that’s a pretty damn good value for your monies worth.

Basically we have a much better foundation for what D2 can give us in the future. As long as Bungie introduces some new mechanics with some good twists for end game in the future, it will be fine.

 

[Kill3r7]

I think the Leviathan is a fun experience. Have done it twice so far but given core changes to the Destiny 2 loot system I don't see ever completing it as much as the Vault of Glass.

VoG although a better raid was heavily dependent on RNG and until IB hit there was no way to level up outside of drops in the raid. In improving the qol elements D2 has eliminated the grind and the meaningful loot that you got from the raid.

 

[Bold One]

Destiny 2 is a good game that took two steps back from a lot of things that made Destiny 1 special to so many people that carried the game through the bad times. The people who "don't like that" are the ones that kept the game alive and relevant. Not to mention the huge chunk of the community who represent the hardcore, the ones that made it a hobby. I sadly have to make a decision as to if I support moving forward, unfortunately being the fanboy I am I've already bought the next DLC's...... Bungo/Actimoney has my cash.

The game is not subscription based, and I can also pull spending money from TessMoney and everything else. I gladly spend money towards supporting all aspects because ultimately Destiny 1 was my home for a long time. That will most likely stop. Tired of being let down on all aspects, and with the lack of communication I'm not surprised we're at this point already.

Hey Luke, money will be kept in my wallet and not thrown at you.

Look, you guys need to move past this mindset that you are owed something (how dare they try to go after a different audience), did they over-correct? maybe but this is the game they made.

Ok, its not exactly what you wanted, give feedback, put the game down and come back when the updates drop or leave for good, its not like its only been a month.

There are so many things I want to be addressed, but I am realistic.

 

[Deku Tree]

I am happy that they made unique guns and that they removed random perks. Random perks was dumb.

I think D2 has more end game now than D1 had at launch.

 

[BLCKATK]

I really like this write-up. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but if Destiny ended up embracing some of these ideas I wouldn't complain. I'm glad that slayerrage kinda admits that a lot of this stuff would require an entire systems overhaul and might not actually be possible, because I feel like that is something to keep in mind when actively making suggestions.

I'll hijack my post and put some of my own thoughts on the criticisms of Destiny 2:

Something I see people say a lot is that the guns are boring. We definitely have a reduced perk pool and no more random rolls, but to me this is a relief. I didn't hate random rolls, but playing in Destiny 2's sandbox, I enjoy shooting more than in Destiny 1. I've tried way more guns, I've kept more guns than in Destiny 1 as well. D1 had an issue where Bungie developed a set of all-star guns and realized they made their best-in-class guns for their entire Year 1 (Fatebringer is a great example of this). So when they had to dial it back in order to make room for more guns to enter the sandbox, it was already ruined. "Bungie took away my Fatebringer! Bring back Year 1 guns!". I think we all have read atleast three posts a day saying this for since The Dark Below launch! For me it's super aggravating because I WANT new guns in the sandbox, and I really don't mind having gun power turned down but gun uniqueness turned up. That's what I feel is in play now. It's definitely happening in the Exotic weapon department, which is why we hear the criticism that Exotics are weak. Each one feels unique though, either they feel like the ultimate version of an archetype (MIDA Multi-Tool being the ultimate Lightweight scout model, encouraging that playstyle) or an entirely new style of play (Coldheart and Fighting Lion). This is different than D1, but I don't see it as bad.

Could it be better, should it be better? Yes, and that's what updates and DLC are for. It's not a terrible thing to have new and old guns introduced in free updates, and it could be that push to log back in after a break. Instead of logging in after a break thinking "Oh, I have to finish getting my raid gear" or "I never got an Imago Loop, I should grind for it", you can have thoughts like "Oh, it's Faction Rally this week, I gotta get the new FWC gun." or "Iron Banner is up this week, I should finish my set". Then a couple weeks later you have new content to actually dive into in the form of DLC. From what I've seen, the idea of new rewards has kept some above average to casual people checking in on the game, because as players we can all get burnt out on the grind. You'll see the same consistent people grinding on Destiny all the time, but you see everyone on your friends list online when new content drops, just to check it out.

A final point that I'd like to bring up on the comparison to Destiny 1 and 2 is that I feel that Bungie chose to build a better foundation in Destiny 2 than just continuing to build on the creaky foundation that is Destiny 1. The world in Destiny 2 is way more vast, there are way more interesting battles that can happen in the sandbox. There is a real campaign to get you into the game, and Adventures that can lead you deeper into that.
The systems in place for giving Rewards are consistent and can be improved on. The shooting itself is some of the best in the industry. Most importantly, there is actually stuff on the way and we know about it, and there is precedent for free updates. So things can actually get better instead of having to wait an entire year for a "Taken King" style expansion (and a $40 price tag). There are more possibilities for improvement, which is why critical feedback is super important.

 

[NoHeDidn't]

Set rolls in D2 does suck but D1 rng rolls sucked more if you didnt have 1000 hours to invest.I haven't even hit 300 on one character and I play almost every night I try and savor the experience instead of min maxing till I max all 3 characters then complain of boredom.

I completely agree things need to be changed mainly more weapon and armor variety,more strikes,better exotics and faction ranking.Having said that I'll be honest I think D2 is hurting content creators and streamers the most thats why its not good to be invested in only one series putting your financial success or failure in a game developer is never smart.

 

[Bombless]

I guess the delay of the PC version was a blessing after all.

I guess I can wait another year for Bungie to fix the game. Should have quite a bit more content too.

 

[ethomaz]

Wasn't the original Destiny also kinda bad its first year? I remember it wasn't until The Taken King expansion until it really hit its groove.

That is not true.

While TTK in some aspects took one step in the right direction at the same time it back two steps in others aspects.

Overall Destiny after TTK is less fun than before TTK... só if you want to call it bad then Destiny become bad after TTK.

Year 1 Destiny was the best that Bungie could delivery with this game and that is why they were FORCED to re-launch old raids and Year 1 weapons (nerfed of course because Year 1 weapon perks break the game with TTK update).

Even the Year 1 Exotics where nerfed to
shit to be re-launch after TTK.

You used to be a Guardian Legend in Y1.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Having said that I'll be honest I think D2 is hurting content creators and streamers the most thats why its not good to be invested in only one series putting your financial success or failure in a game developer is never smart.

It's hurting the people that supported their game by and large the most throughout the original game's existence. Naturally, content creators fall into that group.

 

[urge26]

Set rolls in D2 does suck but D1 rng rolls sucked more if you didnt have 1000 hours to invest.I haven't even hit 300 on one character and I play almost every night I try and savor the experience instead of min maxing till I max all 3 characters then complain of boredom.

I completely agree things need to be changed mainly more weapon and armor variety,more strikes,better exotics and faction ranking.Having said that I'll be honest I think D2 is hurting content creators and streamers the most thats why its not good to be invested in only one series putting your financial success or failure in a game developer is never smart.

I don't see streamers being hurt.... Gothalion, Broman, Krafty, Datto, Triple to name a few at the top probably have a bigger audience now then they did a year ago.

 

[Mezoly]

That is not true.

While TTK in some aspects took one step in the right direction at the same time it back two steps in others aspects.

Overall Destiny after TTK is less fun than before TTK... só if you want to call it bad then Destiny become bad after TTK.

Year 1 Destiny was the best that Bungie could delivery with this game and that is why they were FORCED to re-launch old raids and Year 1 weapons (nerfed of course because Year 1 weapon perks break the game with TTK update).

Even the Year 1 Exotics where nerfed to
shit to be re-launch after TTK.

You used to be a Guardian Legend in Y1.

I don't know if I'm losing my mind or this post is some of the most revisionist history posts I've ever seen. I remember as clear as day everyone saying TTK is what fixed Destiny. You and some "Hardcore Players" are probably in the minority who think that TTK made it bad.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't know if I'm losing my mind or this post is some of the most revisionist history posts I've ever seen. I remember as clear as day everyone saying TTK is what fixed Destiny. You and some "Hardcore Players" are probably in the minority who think that TTK made it bad.

Fixed the story telling you mean.

 

[CLEEK]

The criticism in the OP are all true, with the caveat of if you are a hardcore, obsessive Destiny player. The types to sink hours into the game each and every night. All the changes to loot, fixed rolls, power level progression and balance are infinitely more user friendly to the more casual player.

I played a shit ton of Destiny 1 over its lifespan, and it was only really from Taken King onwards that I found it a user friendly experience for the amount of time I played the game (3-5 hours a week). I'd happily play D1 during my limited gaming time each evening, but in Year 1 and Year 2, any meaningful progress in getting better guns / amour / light level would be extremely rare.

With D2, I know that I am guaranteed to get progress with guns / amour / power level, at least weekly with the Milestone reset, and often daily as well. It's been a fantastic experience.

 

[Mezoly]

Fixed the story telling you mean.

I also remember people talking about mission design and how there weren't many scans missions as Vanilla Destiny. I read the press & Gaf posts around TTK and everyone made it to be the saver of Destiny at the time.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I don't know if I'm losing my mind or this post is some of the most revisionist history posts I've ever seen. I remember as clear as day everyone saying TTK is what fixed Destiny. You and some "Hardcore Players" are probably in the minority who think that TTK made it bad.

It's not revisionist history, it's what you call a different opinion.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

More precisely, it would seem they wanted Desinty 1 Year 4. Just a continuation of what they have been playing for the last 3 years.

Really fascinating stuff.

Destiny 2 feels like TTK to me with a less interesting patrol spaces and boring multiplayer.

I literally don't get the argument that people wanted Destiny 1 Year 4 when this game feels like it has less mechanical overhauls than what we got from HoC to TTK on an RPG front. The biggest change is the lack of RNG on weapons and I think it's for the worst. I ended up having the best primary and second primary in the game when I finished it.

The game hasn't improved in any way over where Destiny was after the last expansion.

 

[ethomaz]

I also remember people talking about mission design and how there weren't many scans missions as Vanilla Destiny. I read the press & Gaf posts around TTK and everyone made it to be the saver of Destiny at the time.

It was not... at launch TTK had a lot of criticism too but it fixed one of the major flaw of Destiny... its story telling.

This major flaw was the most talked issue in reviewers and gaming side in GAF... so these guys that were happy with TTK fixing the story telling didn’t see the amount of issues created by it... if you look at the community side of GAF (these that played Destiny) you will see a lot of bad decisions with TTK.

 

[recursive]

Just want to throw in the perspective of a casual Destiny 2 player who plays a few nights a week. I can usually get my friends all together to play once a week, at most.

The game is very fun, and I enjoy that I don't have to do end game content to get to 305. Even so, I'm not going to get to 305 anytime soon--maybe never. Not sure I'll ever have the time or inclination to do the raid.

I like that things are simpler. I like the balance. I like the more open world. I even like Crucible. None of this top player, end-game stuff means anything to me. This stuff always reads like evidence that the writer should move on and play different games, because they've hit an enjoyment wall. That's fine. That's normal.

Every time I play now, I make a little progress. That feels good. If I do hit the cap, it won't really change my play behavior much--I'll just be ready for Nightfalls when my friends are.

I sort of wonder what the response would be if the situation were reveresed. Would we be seeing the casuals at arms with the "elitests?" I wonder how they would respond to "move along" when they complain about too much effort to get loot and level up.

The wall didn't need to be built where it was.

 

[MrBenchmark]

I don't know if I'm losing my mind or this post is some of the most revisionist history posts I've ever seen. I remember as clear as day everyone saying TTK is what fixed Destiny. You and some "Hardcore Players" are probably in the minority who think that TTK made it bad.

your not crazy but that post is fuckin nuts i was there since day one and year one was not good at all compared to HOW and beyond.

Nothing like being stuck at 29 and purples turning into blues and drop rates were terrible.

 

[staticneuron]

Just want to throw in the perspective of a casual Destiny 2 player who plays a few nights a week. I can usually get my friends all together to play once a week, at most.

The game is very fun, and I enjoy that I don't have to do end game content to get to 305. Even so, I'm not going to get to 305 anytime soon--maybe never. Not sure I'll ever have the time or inclination to do the raid.

I like that things are simpler. I like the balance. I like the more open world. I even like Crucible. None of this top player, end-game stuff means anything to me. This stuff always reads like evidence that the writer should move on and play different games, because they've hit an enjoyment wall. That's fine. That's normal.

Every time I play now, I make a little progress. That feels good. If I do hit the cap, it won't really change my play behavior much--I'll just be ready for Nightfalls when my friends are.

Agreed, Except I have 3 characters level 305. The game is more easygoing instead of forcing everyone to do endgame content. Meaning you can solo to max light level. now as far as complaints in OP are concerned....

Being max level in Destiny 1 during most of its expansions meant you had completed a good amount of the endgame content - but now, "endgame" content is trivialized by design - it's not an important part of the road to the strongest character. High level content is far less "worthwhile" as a result.

Not true exactly. It is easily observable how much more damage you can do and what you can survive. You don't need it because it is beyond the minimum limit but being stronger has tangible benefits observed in each encounter. Less shots per mob making each individual more efficient. In addition there are unique weapons and gear in the raid that you do not get as a regular drop. The power level isn't what makes them that more important, it is the fixed skills that are on the gun that makes it better.

There is no doubt that the game has plenty of playability, and it's fun to play, but it cannot be treated as a hobby in its current state. I can't blame my friends for not playing, because the game feels intended to be beaten and moved on from. Bear in mind, I am one of those guys that play too much and so are my friends. This game does not work for that attitude at all, unfortunately for us.

The game makes it clear to get to highest level but the motivation for endless grind is gone but more of an encouragement to come back every week to clear milestones. For some it seems as if that it game breaking. That is a personal issue that for me, I prefer because I have other games to play and hate the feeling of needlessly grinding to get a weapon I want.

Stop making balance the central focus of the game. Nobody is going to look back in 8 years and say "Destiny 2 was so balanced, it was amazing," but people very well might think back on the rocket launcher that exploded into a wolf-pack of tiny homing rockets and obliterated nearly everything in the game.

Ahhh, like Destiny 2 Wardcliff coil?

They way it is currently set up is pretty good because each gun has stats you can modify within a range. Meaning the named guns now have a reason for existing. They my fit your playstyle more. The concept of turning "any" gun into a a gun you can get a god roll on means that you no longer care about weapons or unique skill, you just hope you can get a god roll on the right class of weapon.

I'm at 112 hours and haven't once seen an exotic on the ground. Just in the UI as an icon. Killing a boss and seeing a shiny gold engram fly out of it was a massive highlight of gameplay sought throughout the first game. The separation between activity and reward (as in, kill boss, wait, open chest - or do mission, go to tower, turn in tokens, get reward) has probably been the most detrimental thing in the game for me.

It just doesn't feel exciting to get loot, and when you do it's nothing exciting.

It is a very minor quibble considered you either see it pop up on your screen automatically or you are awarded from chest. The need to pick same item of the ground doesn't seem like a bonus or great feeling. But to each his own, I guess.

I guess it just goes to show that some people have really differing views on what is fun or acceptable.

Something I see people say a lot is that the guns are boring. We definitely have a reduced perk pool and no more random rolls, but to me this is a relief. I didn't hate random rolls, but playing in Destiny 2's sandbox, I enjoy shooting more than in Destiny 1. I've tried way more guns, I've kept more guns than in Destiny 1 as well. D1 had an issue where Bungie developed a set of all-star guns and realized they made their best-in-class guns for their entire Year 1 (Fatebringer is a great example of this). So when they had to dial it back in order to make room for more guns to enter the sandbox, it was already ruined. "Bungie took away my Fatebringer! Bring back Year 1 guns!". I think we all have read atleast three posts a day saying this for since The Dark Below launch! For me it's super aggravating because I WANT new guns in the sandbox, and I really don't mind having gun power turned down but gun uniqueness turned up. That's what I feel is in play now. It's definitely happening in the Exotic weapon department, which is why we hear the criticism that Exotics are weak. Each one feels unique though, either they feel like the ultimate version of an archetype (MIDA Multi-Tool being the ultimate Lightweight scout model, encouraging that playstyle) or an entirely new style of play (Coldheart and Fighting Lion). This is different than D1, but I don't see it as bad.

Could it be better, should it be better? Yes, and that's what updates and DLC are for. It's not a terrible thing to have new and old guns introduced in free updates, and it could be that push to log back in after a break. Instead of logging in after a break thinking "Oh, I have to finish getting my raid gear" or "I never got an Imago Loop, I should grind for it", you can have thoughts like "Oh, it's Faction Rally this week, I gotta get the new FWC gun." or "Iron Banner is up this week, I should finish my set". Then a couple weeks later you have new content to actually dive into in the form of DLC. From what I've seen, the idea of new rewards has kept some above average to casual people checking in on the game, because as players we can all get burnt out on the grind. You'll see the same consistent people grinding on Destiny all the time, but you see everyone on your friends list online when new content drops, just to check it out.

A final point that I'd like to bring up on the comparison to Destiny 1 and 2 is that I feel that Bungie chose to build a better foundation in Destiny 2 than just continuing to build on the creaky foundation that is Destiny 1. The world in Destiny 2 is way more vast, there are way more interesting battles that can happen in the sandbox. There is a real campaign to get you into the game, and Adventures that can lead you deeper into that.
The systems in place for giving Rewards are consistent and can be improved on. The shooting itself is some of the best in the industry. Most importantly, there is actually stuff on the way and we know about it, and there is precedent for free updates. So things can actually get better instead of having to wait an entire year for a "Taken King" style expansion (and a $40 price tag). There are more possibilities for improvement, which is why critical feedback is super important.

agreed

 

[120v]

full disclosure i'm holding out for PC, haven't touched the game.... but as a filthy Destiny 1 casual i like the idea stuff like patrol and public events give you palpable progress against somebody going whole hog on endgame

if this was months into release i could understand but how else can you really balance a loot game with PvE this early on. sometimes you just have to go on and play something else

 

[Gator86]

I don't know if I'm losing my mind or this post is some of the most revisionist history posts I've ever seen. I remember as clear as day everyone saying TTK is what fixed Destiny. You and some "Hardcore Players" are probably in the minority who think that TTK made it bad.

Same way people go on and on about Vanilla WoW when in reality, if you played it today, you'd be fucking horrified. Just nostalgia. Launch Destiny was a broken mess full of half-finished mechanics and insane grind. Trolling the moon for helium for 6 hours to level up pants perks can get fucked.

TTK just made D1 less insane and pushed the storytelling from among the worst out there to meh.

 

[MrBenchmark]

Same way people go on and on about Vanilla WoW when in reality, if you played it today, you'd be fucking horrified. Just nostalgia. Launch Destiny was a broken mess full of half-finished mechanics and insane grind. Trolling the moon for helium for 6 hours to level up pants perks can get fucked.

TTK just made D1 less insane and pushed the storytelling from among the worst out there to meh.

I'd almost forgot material farming dammit thanks a lot F that never again ya know thats what the new token system reminds me of.

 

[Kill3r7]

I also remember people talking about mission design and how there weren't many scans missions as Vanilla Destiny. I read the press & Gaf posts around TTK and everyone made it to be the saver of Destiny at the time.

TTK unquestionably improved the overall quality of the game and QoL in general. That said the end game was not without its faults. I liked vanilla Destiny because the raid weapons were great and something that you loved getting your hands on after months of RNG fucking you over.