Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)

KillZone also used Ray-tracing on PS4 so I expect PS5 to have some hardware features to accelerate ray-tracing even more

I did not know that. I still have my copy I need to play through from launch, gonna pop it in soon (from backlog). Thanks for the heads up.

Do you have any links handy with what instances it is utilized? Does Horizon as well, or no? I expect Death Stranding to with the fidelity shown.
 
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I did not know that. I still have my copy I need to play through from launch, gonna pop it in soon (from backlog). Thanks for the heads up.

Do you have any links handy with what instances it is utilized? Does Horizon as well, or no? I expect Death Stranding to with the fidelity shown.
I think Killzone used ray-tracing for sound only. The info is in Guerrilla tech slides about the game.
 
I did not know that. I still have my copy I need to play through from launch, gonna pop it in soon (from backlog). Thanks for the heads up.

Do you have any links handy with what instances it is utilized? Does Horizon as well, or no? I expect Death Stranding to with the fidelity shown.


http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2014/valient/Valient_Siggraph14_Killzone.pptx


the-production-and-visual-fx-of-killzone-shadow-fall-63-638.jpg



KZ+Ray-Tracying+.jpg

KZ+Ray-Tracying+2+.jpg
 
Realistically though, noone expected such a huge amount of space reserved for the system. PS4 to this day allows 5.5Gb, so assuming the reservation size remains relatively static, 12Gb would still represent a very substantial increase. 16Gb seems more likely though not neccesarily of a uniform spec. 12fast +4 slower ram might be an option.
12gb minus 3gb (minimum) for os leaves you with 9gb that's not even double 5gb. Its nowhere near enough for a next gen jump, 4k textures alone will eat the extra memory
Since last gen ram prices have gone up, so I will ask again how much is 24GB?
I expect it will cost Sony the same amount it costed them to add 8gb gddr5 in 2013.
 
Yeah, good luck with that one. I'm not the greatest mathematician but I believe 24 is still greater than 8.

DDR4 Same Price as Initial Launch
Going by that logic hardware will forever remain stagnant
Im no mathematician but I believe 8gb is still greater than 512mb, 16x greater actually... did it cost 16x times as much?
I wouldn't compare off the shelf pc parts, its not even the same type. Different markets and economies.
Big players like Sony can place orders in bulk years/months in advance thus getting a good deal.

I will say again: 8gb gddrr5 was just as unthinkable in 2013.
 
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KillZone also used Ray-tracing on PS4 so I expect PS5 to have some hardware features to accelerate ray-tracing even more
The tomorrow children also used ray tracing for lighting and reflections.

It was a very striking game. Sad that it didn't work out.
 
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Yeah, good luck with that one. I'm not the greatest mathematician but I believe 24 is still greater than 8.

DDR4 Same Price as Initial Launch


With no fabrication shrink between those two points...Even if prices per mm2 remain stagnant, we're also getting a density increase, with Micron and others investing heavily in a new fab at last for DRAM.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13012/micron-begins-mass-production-of-gddr6

"Finally, further out, Micron is already looking at faster and higher density memory options. The company already has 16Gb parts in their development pipeline (the GDDR6 spec allows for up to 32Gb), which will finally offer a long-awaited capacity bump over 8Gb GDDR5(X). As for faster speeds, besides their forthcoming 16Gbps products, the company is also playing with even faster speeds in their labs, where they've recently been able to get GDDR6 up to 20Gbps. Now it does go without saying that faster memory speeds are much more future looking – in part because there needs to be memory controllers capable of driving such fast memory – but Micron seems cautiously optimistic."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12338/samsung-starts-mass-production-of-gddr6-memory

"This week, Samsung has announced that it has started mass production of its GDDR6 memory chips for next-generation graphics cards and other applications. The new chips will be available in 16 Gb densities and will feature an interface speed that is significantly higher when compared to that of the fastest GDDR5 and GDDR5X ICs can offer.

GDDR6 is a next-generation specialized DRAM standard that will be supported by all three leading makers of memory. Over time, the industry will introduce a great variety of GDDR6 ICs for different applications, performance and price requirements. What Samsung is announcing this week is its first 16 Gb GDDR6 IC that features an 18 Gbps per pin data transfer rate and offers up to 72 GB/s of bandwidth per chip. A 256-bit memory subsystem comprised of such DRAMs will have a combined memory bandwidth of 576 GB/s, whereas a 384-bit memory subsystem will hit 864 GB/s, outperforming existing HBM2-based 1.7 Gbps/3092-bit memory subsystems that offer up to 652 GB/s. The added expense with GDDR6 will be in the power budget, much like current GDDR5/5X technology."

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I really don't think either of the pair will be caught dead trying to pitch next gen with 12GB, as the XBO X already has that, and neither wants to be caught well behind the other next gen. 16 is the minimum I expect, 24 is well within reach, and 32 is the stretch.
 
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This is pretty much a confirmation at this point I would think, but we shall see. I do know they did the same thing for tessellation and the PS3 supported this later on with a slight hit to framerate, and the PS4 built on it with even more advanced techniques in the hardware.

So if PD has this panel, it can almost be confirmed as a lock, for now.

could somebody translate that :D
 
I really don't think either of the pair will be caught dead trying to pitch next gen with 12GB, as the XBO X already has that, and neither wants to be caught well behind the other next gen. 16 is the minimum I expect, 24 is well within reach, and 32 is the stretch.
Do you think HBM memory will eventually replace gddr as the standard memory config by say 2025?
With each new iteration, hbm is supposed to lower costs and increase density and bandwidth
 
could somebody translate that :D

I couldn't translate it but from what I could see it look like the Ray-tracing was done while creating the game & they was showing what the game look like on PS4 vs the Ray-tracing that was used in the making of the game. (I think that's what was going on)
 
Min spec 24gb is absolutely needed for next gen base consoles, for the scope of the games. Pro revisions upgrade won't cut it since games will be developed with base consoles in mind.

Going with 16gb for next gen, is the equivalent of going with 2gb for ps4. I don't think comparing to off the shelf pc parts is indicative of what they will use, 8gb ddr5 was just as unthinkable back then

I think PS4 has 5.5GB for games or so. Right? so 16GB for games for PS5 and another more por O.S. in fine. I would love 24GB though. EDIT: My problem with Ram prediction is that i don't know what kind of "divisions" o "amounts" al feasible. For example, 16and4 (Being the second number for O.S. ) 20and4 and this matter became more confusing for me with the Ps4pro and the 1gb off slowram. Maybe you can help me understand. What combinations of ram are posible based od the more probable spects.
 
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I couldn't translate it but from what I could see it look like the Ray-tracing was done while creating the game & they was showing what the game look like on PS4 vs the Ray-tracing that was used in the making of the game. (I think that's what was going on)

That is how I understood it as well.

My comment was just based if their in-house developers are showing this stuff, and with comments from PD several years ago saying these car models are futureproof for the next 10+ years, it is a safe bet they have some knowledge as to what hardware features will be employed within that time-frame from Sony.
 
Do you think HBM memory will eventually replace gddr as the standard memory config by say 2025?
With each new iteration, hbm is supposed to lower costs and increase density and bandwidth


I don't think we have far enough roadmaps to say. I would guess it will again leapfrog GDDR6 in bandwidth with HBM3, but GDDR isn't a stationary target either, just like GDDR6 is shipping earlier and higher bandwidth than HBM3. HBM3 will 2019 at the earliest so GDDR6 is going to be consolidating market share for a while.

I would also guess that stacking memory will always be inherently more expensive, so it'll be for where you need to save space and/or power, like the pattern already is (Vega kinda gave HBM2 a bad name - the performance per watt picture would be even uglier had it not used HBM2).

For the purposes of the consoles, where we have plenty of board space, cooling room, and power draw, I don't think spending extra on HBM will be worth it this round, GDDR6 seems great and cheaper.
 
Haven't seen it but these are for data centers & don't really say much about consumer cards
What caught my attention:
  • 2xVega/56x2 CU: Is this the mcm thingy?
  • 32 GB at 512GB/s: Surprised at the amount (Nvidia only managed 16gb for volta) while at the same time i wonder why so low bandwidth considering the amount of stacks it has.
I think PS4 has 5.5GB for games or so. Right? so 16GB for games for PS5 and another more por O.S. in fine. I would love 24GB though. What combinations of ram are posible based od the more probable spects.

Still 16gb is nowhere near enough for a next gen jump, 4k alone will eat a huge chunk of it. If we only get 16gb i fear we'll be limited to current gen scope.
About the combinations i know as much as you lol though i remember reading something about 32gb being better than 24gb for cost reductions down the line
That's the plan
Exiting stuff, but im confused what's this new type of memory (HBM 4?) called? the slide mentions hbm limitations
 
Do you guys think PS5 will have endless remastered PS4 games?
Same architecture, same manufacturer, there is no reason for Ps4 games to not run on ps5 except greed. Sony can make an emulator and developers can even release patches for Ps4 games to run natively on ps5 with improvements (i only expect some 1st party devs to bother with this, like Media Molecule with Dreams).
 
AMD Moves All 7nm CPU, GPU Production to TSMC

AMD's next major milestone is the introduction of our upcoming 7nm product portfolio, including the initial products with our second generation "Zen2" CPU core and our new "Navi" GPU architecture. We have already taped out multiple 7nm products at TSMC, including our first 7nm GPU planned to launch later this year and our first 7nm server CPU that we plan to launch in 2019. Our work with TSMC on their 7nm node has gone very well and we have seen excellent results from early silicon.

You can read more in the article.

All-in with TSMC but what does this mean for possible PS5 timelines?
 
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How is the bolded true?
Im guessing in terms of capacity and real world bandwidth. Products from nVidia using gddr6 have surpassed products using hbm2 in both of these areas

All in all hbm feels like the future but its still relatively new tech that will need to go through several iterations to establish itself as the defacto memory configuration for GPUs, APUs and SoCs alike
 
Im guessing in terms of capacity and real world bandwidth. Products from nVidia using gddr6 have surpassed products using hbm2 in both of these areas

All in all hbm feels like the future but its still relatively new tech that will need to go through several iterations to establish itself as the defacto memory configuration for GPUs, APUs and SoCs alike

Ahhh man. So PS6 then. Ah well, at least the tech will be mature by then.
 
How is the bolded true?


Above chart
1IWd7RM.png



HBM2 as it's shipping peaked at 483.8 GB/s, now could it go higher, probably, but also probably not before GDDR6 parts shipped.

So they may keep leapfrogging each other on bandwidth, and HBM will have package size and power advantages, but so long as GDDR is cheaper and good enough I don't think it'll go away.
 
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Above chart
1IWd7RM.png



HBM2 as it's shipping peaked at 483.8 GB/s, now could it go higher, probably, but also probably not before GDDR6 parts shipped.

So they may keep leapfrogging each other on bandwidth, and HBM will have package size and power advantages, but so long as GDDR is cheaper and good enough I don't think it'll go away.

It honestly seems like a nightmare to release a new console in 2019. There are too many things that are juuuust on the cusp of being slightly too brand new to have really this Fall, for a release a year from now. I officially have no clue what Sony is doing if the rumors are true now.
 
It honestly seems like a nightmare to release a new console in 2019. There are too many things that are juuuust on the cusp of being slightly too brand new to have really this Fall, for a release a year from now. I officially have no clue what Sony is doing if the rumors are true now.
That's the thing. A lot of new technologies are just being introduced. And produced also, in limited capacity.

But in the capacity required for a mass-market console? Nah. Which is why I'm still in the 2020 camp.
 
That's the thing. A lot of new technologies are just being introduced. And produced also, in limited capacity.

But in the capacity required for a mass-market console? Nah. Which is why I'm still in the 2020 camp.

Yeah it has to be 2020 after looking at so much of the evidence of what tech is possible and when it can be matured enough to be mass-marketed. These rumors have got to be just wrong. Mark Cerny is too smart to put a PS5 out without any RayTracing acceleration, slow HBM2 RAM, small amount of GDDR6 RAM, or only 10 Teraflops of total console power (which is all that's possible for next year within normal console cost). No way they put out a console that slow, weak, and with that much lack of future proofing just to beat MS to the market by one year.
 
These rumors have got to be just wrong.
I mean, if we take the thread title, that there would be devkits out there - I find it completely plausible. They'd probably be along the lines of "this is roughly the hardware we're aiming for", that will not be representative of the final console. But something for the larger studios to familiarize themselves with beforehand, why not, seems like a good move even. That still doesn't mean we'd exactly be close to PS5 launch.
 
AMD Moves All 7nm CPU, GPU Production to TSMC



You can read more in the article.

All-in with TSMC but what does this mean for possible PS5 timelines?


From the article it sounds like AMD was prepared for this. With that said I still think PS5 will launch late 2019 but it might be a staggered launch. U.S. and Certain countries in Europe will be priority, at least until the 2nd quarter of 2020. That's my guess.
 
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From the article it sounds like AMD was prepared for this. With that said I still think PS5 will launch late 2019 but it might be a staggered launch. U.S. and Certain countries in Europe will be priority, at least until the 2nd quarter of 2019. That's my guess.

Did you mean until the 2nd quarter of 2020?
 
Re: 2019 being possible with the new 7nm node, wouldn't the fact that a very high volume product (Apple A12) is being made this year help process maturity for products like a console to launch over a year later?

I don't think PS4/Xbox One had the benefit of a huge volume product on 28nm a year before release to iron out any issues/improve yields just low volume GPUs at TSMC?
 


Guy is using semi accurate as his source which I have NO idea if that's what they said seeing as how I don't have a subscription there but....

Claims custom Ryzen cpu
Rockstar north and cdpr have devkits
16 gigs ddr6 ram
At least 10 tflops
New dual shock
399
 
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Guy is using semi accurate as his source which I have NO idea if that's what they said seeing as how I don't have a subscription there but....

Claims custom Ryzen cpu
Rockstar north and cdpr have devkits
New dual shock
At least 10 tflops
New dual shock
399


Even ten teraflops would be good with either CB and other 4k framereconstruction techniques. But given the rumor is navi at least matches 1080 performance and amd had about 50% higher Tflops than nvidia for similar performance on their 480 vs 1060, that would suggest 12Tflops given 1080 has around 8Tflops.

Memory amount would be more important, hopefully 24-32GB, 16GB might not be that bad if it helps lower costs, it could be compensated if a fast external memory for streaming is present like say a fast SSD or faster disc drive(some next gen disc formats have extraordinarily greater speed). I say memory would be important, if any of the voxel tech companies have real world tech and not vaporware, as they allow unlimited geometric detail even animated but obviously the greater the detail the greater the memory used.
 
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Guy is using semi accurate as his source which I have NO idea if that's what they said seeing as how I don't have a subscription there but....

Claims custom Ryzen cpu
Rockstar north and cdpr have devkits
16 gigs ddr6 ram
At least 10 tflops
New dual shock
399




DDR6? DDR5 isn't even out yet, must mean GDDR6? Not interchangeable.
 


Guy is using semi accurate as his source which I have NO idea if that's what they said seeing as how I don't have a subscription there but....

Claims custom Ryzen cpu
Rockstar north and cdpr have devkits
16 gigs ddr6 ram
At least 10 tflops
New dual shock
399


This is the WORST possible outcome if this is true. Not enough ram and the Teraflops is the bare minimum of next gen. PLEASE BE WRONG! PLEAAASSE!
 
Yes I meant GDDR 6. And im fine with the specs. Id rather it be closer to 12 Tflops than 10. Sony doesn't have to launch a beast of a machine to be successful. If dev kits are out there to third parties its not like its going to get "Dreamcasted" by a more powerful xbox a year later. Sony might have so much market share that its xbox sweating, not sony. Who knows.
 
I mean, 3 years after the PS4 pro (by september of 2019), is safe to assume that PS5 at least will double the power of the PRO.

- CPU: x86-64 AMD "Navi" or "Ryzen", "?" cores
- GPU: 8.40TFLOPS,
- Memory: GDDR5 (or 6) 16GB
- 4k blurauy

Besides of moar power, what benefits can expect? No games whise. I mean, not so long ago i read something about making VR features very integrated and the capability of launching games from the store (kinda that play while downloading stuff but better).
 
Yes I meant GDDR 6. And im fine with the specs. Id rather it be closer to 12 Tflops than 10. Sony doesn't have to launch a beast of a machine to be successful. If dev kits are out there to third parties its not like its going to get "Dreamcasted" by a more powerful xbox a year later. Sony might have so much market share that its xbox sweating, not sony. Who knows.

So why 2019? Why not 2020 at you get your 12 TF console?
 
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