Support NeoGAF

[L11ghtman]

It sucks they won't do a handheld-only SKU at launch considering it's yet again going to be the best way to play the Switch. I'll probably hold off for one unless the vanilla Switch 2 features indicate there won't be a handheld-only model (the mouse mode for instance seems like it wouldn't play well with a Switch 2 Lite).

Also to the "the games matter more than the visuals people" yes this is true, but the visuals can also seriously hamper a game. Playing the last two Zelda games on a Switch is not really as pleasant as it would be on hardware that could run those games better.

 

[cireza]

This is a tablet with mobile hardware. 4K is absolutely pointless and unrealistic.

 

[BlueManifest]

1.4 tflops can't do 4k anyways

1.7, docked mode is close to 4 plus it has DLSS

 

[Edmund]

We were just fine playing Phantasy Star Online in 480p with a Gamecube on 3-way split screen too. There are no limits because of resolutions. The only limits these days we have are shit moviegames making them -not fun-

I had 10 times more fun on a 30fps 240x120 pixel window in PSO1&2 than I had when i dragged my PC to the livingroom for the fiancee who wanted to see Hellblade 2 playthrough. 4k + DLSS on quality with 60fps, all maxed was pretty but didnt bring anything to the actual gameplay.

What year is it now? Move with the times already. You Nintendo fans behave like crusty old dudes.

 

[neocycle]

It sucks they won't do a handheld-only SKU at launch considering it's yet again going to be the best way to play the Switch. I'll probably hold off for one unless the vanilla Switch 2 features indicate there won't be a handheld-only model (the mouse mode for instance seems like it wouldn't play well with a Switch 2 Lite).

Also to the "the games matter more than the visuals people" yes this is true, but the visuals can also seriously hamper a game. Playing the last two Zelda games on a Switch is not really as pleasant as it would be on hardware that could run those games better.

So you don't care about rumble?

 

[Hudo]

Tom Henderson, as always, is full of shit.

 

[Ceadeus]

Outputting 4k and rendering 4k aren't the same

Sorry, could you give an example of when a video game console ever rendered 1080p and outputting 4K?

 

[Branded]

Sorry, could you give an example of when a video game console ever rendered 1080p and outputting 4K?

Upscaling is exactly that lol. A lower internal resolution that is blown up (upscaled) to a higher res.

 

[FireFly]

Sorry, could you give an example of when a video game console ever rendered 1080p and outputting 4K?

The PS5 and XSX support 4K outputs, but the actual render resolution in game is variable.

 

[GymWolf]

Searching for a smallest shock gif and this was the first result

 

[kevboard]

Sorry, could you give an example of when a video game console ever rendered 1080p and outputting 4K?

Xbox One S. it has exactly 3 games I think that render at a resolution above 1080p, at 1440p, one of which is Doom 64.

further more, the PS2 could output 1080i but never had a game reach that resolution.

the Xbox 360 and PS3 could output 1080p, and there were like 10 to 20 games out of the PS3's 2500+ games that ever rendered at anything above 720p.

your question is so ridiculous that I wasn't sure you were joking or not tbh.

 

[Ceadeus]

Upscaling is exactly that lol. A lower internal resolution that is blown up (upscaled) to a higher res.

Yes ok. So the Switch has been doing just that? It output up to 1080p when docked to a TV. But it isn't upscale if I'm correct? The hardware actually is capable of running the game at 1080p with its current performance.

Now let's say the Switch 2 has a 1080p screen. The hardware is gonna need to render these graphic for up to 1080p right? But who ever thought there was gonna be any chance that, once docked, it output 4K ? By upscaling the image from 1080p to 4K?! I don't think its ever been done before and what kind of shitty image would it show on TV. I mean, you can upscale by a margin, but not THAT much right?

 

[Ceadeus]

Xbox One S. it has exactly 3 games I think that render at a resolution above 1080p, at 1440p, one of which is Doom 64.

further more, the PS2 could output 1080i but never had a game reach that resolution.

the Xbox 360 and PS3 could output 1080p, and there were like 10 to 20 games out of the PS3's 2500+ games that ever rendered at anything above 720p.

your question is so ridiculous that I wasn't sure you were joking or not tbh.

I'm having hard time with my English here. From 1080 to 1400 okay

360 and ps3 , from 720 to 1080p? Okay

But here people were expecting the Switch 2 to render 1080p games but to output 4K? That seem ridiculous to me! Output to 1400p maybe but 4k is overkill isn't it?

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Who are you and what do you know?

A nobody with a friend in a very very very high studio

Dorfdad

Prepare for explosions and not just for tombstone.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I don't think they will show them at the show but do you all want the specs? xD

 

[kevboard]

I'm having hard time with my English here. From 1080 to 1400 okay

360 ans ps3 , from 720 to 1080p? Okay

But here people were expecting the Switch 2 to render 1080p games but to output 4K? That seem ridiculous to me! Output to 1400p maybe but 4k is overkill isn't it?

what are you talking about? what you say makes absolutely no sense. why would they not upscale to 4k? I am so absolutely confused...

what you say legitimately has no inner logic behind it. why would 4k be overkill?

 

[Ceadeus]

what are you talking about? what you say makes absolutely no sense. why would they not upscale to 4k? I am so absolutely confused...

what you say legitimately has no inner logic behind it. why would 4k be overkill?

From 1080p to 4K? That doesn't seem exaggerated for you? I mean, how much can an image be upscaled? Wouldn't it start looking weird?

 

[FireFly]

From 1080p to 4K? That doesn't seem exaggerated for you? I mean, how much can an image be upscaled? Wouldn't it start looking weird?

If you have a 4K TV, I doubt a 1080p image with a bilinear upscale to 4K would look any worse than the native 1080p resolution. And outputting at 4K allows for a 4K UI.

 

[Ceadeus]

If you have a 4K TV, I doubt a 1080p image with a bilinear upscale to 4K would look any worse than the native 1080p resolution. And outputting at 4K allows for a 4K UI.

To be honest, I didn't know it was possible to upscale an image from 1080P to 4K. Or precisely, that it was common or already mainstream to do so. I guess that's the reason why i'm a bit shocked. I'm learning things this morning.

 

[kevboard]

From 1080p to 4K? That doesn't seem exaggerated for you? I mean, how much can an image be upscaled? Wouldn't it start looking weird?

I get the impression you don't know what upscaling means...

if you play on a 4K TV, and you play anything that is not running at exactly 3840x2160, the image will be upscaled to 3840x2160.

if you connect an Xbox 360 to your modern 4K TV, the image will be upscaled to 4K.

the only way to play anything on a 4K TV without it being upscaled to 4K, is to play it in a small window like in this image:

the moment you play or whatch anything on your 4K TV that is not a 4K source, and you watch it in full screen where the entire TV is filled with the image, you are upscaling to 4K.

 

[Ceadeus]

I get the impression you don't know what upscaling means...

if you play on a 4K TV, and you play anything that is not running at exactly 3840x2160, the image will be upscaled to 3840x2160.

if you connect an Xbox 360 to your modern 4K TV, the image will be upscaled to 4K.

the only way to play anything on a 4K TV without it being upscaled to 4K, is to play it in a small window like in this image:

the moment you play or whatch anything on your 4K TV that is not a 4K source, and you watch it in full screen where the entire TV is filled with the image, you are upscaling to 4K.

Well I learned something. Tbh I thought my 360 was outputting up to 1080p resolution on my 4K all along. No way I would have thought it was upscaling to my TV resolution.

 

[kevboard]

Well I learned something. Tbh I thought my 360 was outputting up to 1080p resolution on my 4K all along. No way I would have thought it was upscaling to my TV resolution.

your TV upscales it. and that's the issue. your TV uses a low power chipset to upscale anything that isn't 4K to 4K.

so the 1080p image that your 360 sends to your TV, which is already in most games upscaled to 1080p from 720p or below by the 360, then has to be upscaled again by your TV to 4k. so the original rendered image now got upscaled twice by 2 different pieces of hardware.

having the console output to 4K means that the console scales the image before the TV display is, which in 99% of the cases will look better than if your TV scales it.
especially if you have a mid range or low end TV.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I got a Steam hardware survey yesterday and I proudly contributed to the 4k master race on PC.

THERE ARE DOZENS OF US
DOZENS

 

[Ceadeus]

your TV upscales it. and that's the issue. your TV uses a low power chipset to upscale anything that isn't 4K to 4K.

so the 1080p image that your 360 sends to your TV, which is already in most games upscaled to 1080p from 720p or below by the 360, then has to be upscaled again by your TV to 4k. so the original rendered image now got upscaled twice by 2 different pieces of hardware.

having the console output to 4K means that the console scales the image before the TV display is, which in 99% of the cases will look better than if your TV scales it.
especially if you have a mid range or low end TV.

That clarifies the subject. So, about the Switch 2, why wouldn't Nintendo feature a dock that upscale to 4K? The cost of the chipset or the idea that now the games would require additional development care to look good at 4K?

 

[kevboard]

That clarifies the subject. So, about the Switch 2, why wouldn't Nintendo feature a dock that upscale to 4K? The cost of the chipset or the idea that now the games would require additional development care to look good at 4K?

the Switch 2 will absolutely be able to output 4K. there is no way it won't.

 

[Ceadeus]

the Switch 2 will absolutely be able to output 4K. there is no way it won't.

I wouldn't be surprised it doesn't

 

[kevboard]

I wouldn't be surprised it doesn't

I would, because it would make no sense.

 

[FireFly]

I wouldn't be surprised it doesn't

It's already basically confirmed that the chipset supports it.

 

[Ceadeus]

It's already basically confirmed that the chipset supports it.

Goes up to 8K60hz?

 

[FireFly]

Goes up to 8K60hz?

That's with DSC (Display Stream Compression). It's not clear if the Switch 2 will expose support for DSC.

 

[flying_sq]

They should at least include it for streaming movies and stuff. It would be silly not to.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Goes up to 8K60hz?

Yeah but don't confuse the docks output chipset capabilities to what the Switch 2 can render at

 

[hououinkyouma00]

So you don't care about rumble?

Do people really like rumble that much? I can't say I ever even think about rumble during gameplay outside of Astro Boy/Astro's Playroom since it's actually well integrated.

For me the Lite was a much better handheld experience to the point I used that for handheld and kept my Switch docked basically 24/7. I gotta use a Satisfye grip either way so the size was much better and I never once thought about how I'm missing out on rumble.

 

[neocycle]

Do people really like rumble that much? I can't say I ever even think about rumble during gameplay outside of Astro Boy/Astro's Playroom since it's actually well integrated.

For me the Lite was a much better handheld experience to the point I used that for handheld and kept my Switch docked basically 24/7. I gotta use a Satisfye grip either way so the size was much better and I never once thought about how I'm missing out on rumble.

One of the most important things in gaming for me.

 

[kevboard]

Do people really like rumble that much? I can't say I ever even think about rumble during gameplay outside of Astro Boy/Astro's Playroom since it's actually well integrated.

For me the Lite was a much better handheld experience to the point I used that for handheld and kept my Switch docked basically 24/7. I gotta use a Satisfye grip either way so the size was much better and I never once thought about how I'm missing out on rumble.

One of the most important things in gaming for me.

the thing is, if you play with rumble, and switch to no rumble for whatever reason, it will feel off and weird.

but if you play without rumble for an extended period, you eventually completely forget about it not being there.

the only time I would actually say I need rumble is when playing Forza, as the impulse triggers on the Xbox controller actually have a very important gameplay function in giving you direct feedback about traction while accelerating and braking. this function could be replaced by a UI element, but that would be less elegant.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

It should be emphasized that the lack of 4K output on a dev kit doesn't automatically mean that the system won't support it. Console development kits don't often fully match the specs of the final system. For example, some dev kits could offer more memory to allow for better debugging and leave out features that don't impact testing too much like, in this instance, a 4K output.

Thanks chatgpt.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Thanks chatgpt.

I just quoted the article, I didn't write it

 

[Ceadeus]

Yeah but don't confuse the docks output chipset capabilities to what the Switch 2 can render at

Sure thing, I was just curious.

 

[Ceadeus]

Man is it me or there is tension in the air. It's supposed to be a festive day but the atmosphere rather feel way too serious?

 

[poppabk]

From 1080p to 4K? That doesn't seem exaggerated for you? I mean, how much can an image be upscaled? Wouldn't it start looking weird?

Check out DLSS4 4K ultra performance videos. That is upscaling to 4K from 720p and looks half decent.

 

[Ceadeus]

Check out DLSS4 4K ultra performance videos. That is upscaling to 4K from 720p and looks half decent.

Yeah I'm curious, do you have any link by any chance?

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

So what? What kind of handheld is 4K anyway?

Like I have a ROG Ally X, and that thing you can't do 4K for $900. I mean, get real

 

[spons]

The Direct is streamed in 4k so all of this is probably bullshit.

 

[Ceadeus]

So what? What kind of handheld is 4K anyway?

Like I have a ROG Ally X, and that thing you can't do 4K for $900. I mean, get real

It would be upscaling to 4K. Personally I'm skeptical af. Let's see.

 

[Minsc]

So what? What kind of handheld is 4K anyway?

Like I have a ROG Ally X, and that thing you can't do 4K for $900. I mean, get real

It actually does. I run mine at 2160p at 120 fps, and it looks great on a 32" OLED.

 

[ResilientBanana]

DDR5 has better latency than GDDR6. LPDDR5 will have worse latency than DDR5, but I am unable to find any comparisons with GDDR6. So it might be comparable.

And as for memory bandwidth, DF already tested a downclocked 2050 with 96 GB/s of bandwidth and found a cost of 3.35 ms when upscaling from 720p to 1080p and 7.7 ms when using a 1440p target. So upscaling to 1080p should be perfectly viable and upscaling to 1440p may be viable in 30 FPS games. You also have to bear in mind that Nintendo have talked about lowering the complexity of the DLSS model in their DLSS patent. It makes sense for them to try to recover additional performance this way, to make upscaling viable in more titles.

LPDDR5 only has 6Gbps

 

[crazepharmacist]

wrong thread.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

RIP to this article

 

[YeulEmeralda]

So what? What kind of handheld is 4K anyway?

Like I have a ROG Ally X, and that thing you can't do 4K for $900. I mean, get real

Funny is the Switch a handheld? I remember a lot of discussions about that. Nintendo certainly advertises the dock function.

 

[nkill20]

Tom BTFO