Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)

John Peter said:
I don't know but if I understood what you said. Will NAVI 7nm bring us more performance per ''Tflops'' than VEGA?? :pie_thinking:
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We have no idea at this point and, frankly, it doesn't even matter as regardles of tflops, perf bump will be significant.

What's clear is that Navi chip can easily be 4 times faster than PS4 (2 times faster than PS4 Pro). Whether they push it further to 3x PS4 Pro, we can only speculate.
 
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John Peter said:
I don't know but if I understood what you said. Will NAVI 7nm bring us more performance per ''Tflops'' than VEGA?? :pie_thinking:
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It's been the case for every GCN revision, pretty safe assumption, though we don't know for sure yet.
That said, Navi at this point doesn't appear to be a move past GCN, so expect a notable but not massive increase in real world performance per paper Tflop.

We still know little about what's changing in Navi, so, 80% confidence.
 
LordOfChaos said:
It's been the case for every GCN revision, pretty safe assumption, though we don't know for sure yet.
That said, Navi at this point doesn't appear to be a move past GCN, so expect a notable but not massive increase in real world performance per paper Tflop.

We still know little about what's changing in Navi, so, 80% confidence.
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Navi isn't GCN
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
We really aren't sure what it is yet until the leaks come! Probably Sony are planning to reveal the architecture first in a February 2019 PlayStation meeting and that is why the complete silence and mystery around it by AMD?
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Never mind it's the one after Navi that's not going to be GCN.
 
onQ123 said:
Never mind it's the one after Navi that's not going to be GCN.
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If Navi is GCN-based it will be interesting what sort of custom stuff Mark Cerny/Sony go for this time around. Ray Tracing (RaySpace!) is the obvious one that devs are tweeting loudly about.

Anything you'd like to see?

Edit: It makes so much sense in my head that RaySpace is a game or even demo Mark Cerny is working on (like Knack) that he'll use to demo Ray Tracing at the PlayStation meeting!
 
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THE:MILKMAN said:
If Navi is GCN-based it will be interesting what sort of custom stuff Mark Cerny/Sony go for this time around. Ray Tracing (RaySpace!) is the obvious one that devs are tweeting loudly about.

Anything you'd like to see?

Edit: It makes so much sense in my head that RaySpace is a game or even demo Mark Cerny is working on (like Knack) that he'll use to demo Ray Tracing at the PlayStation meeting!
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Other then Raytracing /hardware accelerated lighting I wold like for them to have hardware for accelerating volume rendering , also AI acceleration.
 
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THE:MILKMAN said:
If Navi is GCN-based it will be interesting what sort of custom stuff Mark Cerny/Sony go for this time around. Ray Tracing (RaySpace!) is the obvious one that devs are tweeting loudly about.

Anything you'd like to see?

Edit: It makes so much sense in my head that RaySpace is a game or even demo Mark Cerny is working on (like Knack) that he'll use to demo Ray Tracing at the PlayStation meeting!
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This would make a lot of sense. The signs are there, even from PD talking about it for the past couple of years (like they did with tesselation the generation prior that came to fruition), with their cars/assets being built "future-proof" in mind for the next gen+.
 
llien said:
We have no idea at this point and, frankly, it doesn't even matter as regardles of tflops, perf bump will be significant.

What's clear is that Navi chip can easily be 4 times faster than PS4 (2 times faster than PS4 Pro). Whether they push it further to 3x PS4 Pro, we can only speculate.
Click to expand...

LordOfChaos said:
It's been the case for every GCN revision, pretty safe assumption, though we don't know for sure yet.
That said, Navi at this point doesn't appear to be a move past GCN, so expect a notable but not massive increase in real world performance per paper Tflop.

We still know little about what's changing in Navi, so, 80% confidence.
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I hope 10Tflops from AMD NAVI start to equal 10Tflops of Nvidia performance or We'll need at least a console with 12.6Tflops(The same VEGA 64 Perf). :pie_diana:
 
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onQ123 said:
Never mind it's the one after Navi that's not going to be GCN.
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Yes, the one named "Next Gen" is the most likely culprit for a break past GCN, some of its features hint at a big change in CU design

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/amd-patents-super-simd-first-change-to-cu-since-gcn.1462309/

John Peter said:
I hope 10Tflops from AMD NAVI start to equal 10Tflops of Nvidia performance or We'll need at least a console with 12.6Tflops(The same VEGA 64 Perf). :pie_diana:
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I think that's probably stretching hope, at least until Next-Gen. AMD just designs things differently. More numerous, smaller shaders, that lead to higher Gflops on paper, while each shader does less work. Two different styles of design which lead to different flops per actual performance values.

The above Super-SIMD may drastically change how much work it does per paper flop though, but I doubt that's till Next Gen.

59428_04_amds-next-gen-navi-gpu-launching-august-2018.png






Now if Sony could squeeze features in from the Next Gen pipeline in with a 2020 launch, that would be sweet. The PS4 had 8 ACEs before the desktop cards did, for instance.
 
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SonGoku said:
If Sony dare release an under specced 12nm PS5... It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS5 hopes and dreams.
It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS5. Sony has nothing left, nothing they can reveal during PSX would fix the hole now created. There will be no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in a PS5. Except if they want to play DeathStranding (lol). Which will also come to XBOX2X at some point.

The age of Sony is done. The Playstation brand is finally over, maybe next decade!
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you could say they shot themselves in the foot 🤣🤣
 
John Peter said:
I hope 12.6Tflops
3x Faster than PS4 PRO
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7nm should get us about 9- 11TF in a console next year at $399 or 12 - 14TF if they are not worried about heat & the energy that it will use.


Truthfully I think we will get about 9 - 11TF but with special hardware that push the graphics beyond what we would expect from a GPU with those numbers
 
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onQ123 said:
7nm should get us about 9- 11TF in a console next year at $399 or 12 - 14TF if they are not worried about heat & the energy that it will use.


Truthfully I think we will get about 9 - 11TF but with special hardware that push the graphics beyond what we would expect from a GPU with those numbers
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Kinda hoping they revert from an APU design so that each chip can have higher TDPs. I don't mind it sucking power when it use, so long as the cooling system is good enough not to be loud.


I know much of the market isn't ready for it either, but selfishly, getting rid of the optical drive would free up a LOT of internal volume for the plumbing for silent high TDP cooling.


They could still have a unified memory address space, which is the biggest thing programmer wanted/partly why the 8th gen was all APUs, with two separate chips. The system would be similar to how the 8th gen already works and what the 360 previewed, the memory controller on the GPU with a high bandwidth bus going back to the CPU.
 
It's safe to assume that PS5 for sure 99% will be:
  • Soc system on chip (for lower manufacturing cost)
  • Soc will be 7nm
  • Navi architecture
  • 8 Zen Cores (maybe Zen+?)
  • New Shader architecture (SIMD based?)
  • Frame interpolation build into hardware (does this mean it will affect not only VR games?)
  • 16GB or more GDDR6 memory (maybe GDDR6X?)
  • Minimum 8TFlops performance (Cerny mentioned that required for 4K so it couldn't be less)
  • Cost around 399$-449$
 
Darius87 said:
It's safe to assume that PS5 for sure 99% will be:
  • Soc system on chip (for lower manufacturing cost)
  • Soc will be 7nm
  • Navi architecture
  • 8 Zen Cores (maybe Zen+?)
  • New Shader architecture (SIMD based?)
  • Frame interpolation build into hardware (does this mean it will affect not only VR games?)
  • 16GB or more GDDR6 memory (maybe GDDR6X?)
  • Minimum 8TFlops performance (Cerny mentioned that required for 4K so it couldn't be less)
  • Cost around 399$-449$
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This is a safe bet. I am still on the 10-12TF minimum camp, with RayTrace/RaySpace acceleration.
 
asqarkababi said:
Getting a pro or wait for ps5 to arrive ?
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I am literally on this fence right now as we speak. Especially since my good buddy finally picked one up last week after being on his OG launch PS4 (as am I) in preparation for Spider-Man and RDR2, and has been glowing about GoW in his NG+ play-through with it.
 
DeepEnigma said:
I am literally on this fence right now as we speak. Especially since my good buddy finally picked one up last week after being on his OG launch PS4 (as am I) in preparation for Spider-Man and RDR2, and has been glowing about GoW in his NG+ play-through with it.
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The prices look good right now i can get it on amazon for 360 bucks
I have a OG aswell and want to give it a break
 
asqarkababi said:
The prices look good right now i can get it on amazon for 360 bucks
I have a OG aswell and want to give it a break
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Exactly how he felt, and how I feel as well. I am trying to hold off for the "Black Friday" sales push, since they have been marketing the Pro a lot the past 2 months in adverts and commercials, so it is time for it to receive some temporary price dropping love.
 
DeepEnigma said:
Exactly how he felt, and how I feel as well. I am trying to hold off for the "Black Friday" sales push, since they have been marketing the Pro a lot the past 2 months in adverts and commercials, so it is time for it to receive some temporary price dropping love.
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Yeah i hope we will see the prices drop soon specially for the holidays
Its going to be awesome with the last of us 2 coming next year ;)
 
PS5 needs to have decent silent cooling, not only specs.
Also ditch the touchpad, no game uses it as a touchpad, only as 2 buttons.
The ds4 speaker can probably go too, it is great when used properly, but so few games make use of it. Not even Sony 1st party bother with it, there is no incentive for 3rd party to use it either. God of War could use it for something like Odin's Ravens proximity, but they just forgot the speaker was even there....
 
Darius87 said:
It's safe to assume that PS5 for sure 99% will be:
  • 16GB or more GDDR6 memory (maybe GDDR6X?)
  • Minimum 8TFlops performance (Cerny mentioned that required for 4K so it couldn't be less)
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Whats the point of a PS5 with these puny specs? it does not deserve to be called PS5
Just release Pro+ if theres market demand for it and delay the real PS5 till a proper next gen leap is possible, none of this half step shenanigans
 
ColdToffee said:
PS5 needs to have decent silent cooling, not only specs.
Also ditch the touchpad, no game uses it as a touchpad, only as 2 buttons.
The ds4 speaker can probably go too, it is great when used properly, but so few games make use of it. Not even Sony 1st party bother with it, there is no incentive for 3rd party to use it either. God of War could use it for something like Odin's Ravens proximity, but they just forgot the speaker was even there....
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probably because most people are using heaphones so it just ends up being a liability if devs make it a mandatory feature, which is a shame because I really likes it's use in GTA V. But Sony are notorious for adding useless features from sixaxis to touchpads so I'm quite curious to see which useless features they add to the ps5 which again no one will use.
 
SonGoku said:
Whats the point of a PS5 with these puny specs? it does not deserve to be called PS5
Just release Pro+ if theres market demand for it and delay the real PS5 till a proper next gen leap is possible, none of this half step shenanigans
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Assuming it has a decent secondary processor for OS and background stuff with its own dedicated memory, 16gb free for games should be enough. My prediction for the price (399) would be 12tf.
 
ColdToffee said:
Assuming it has a decent secondary processor for OS and background stuff with its own dedicated memory, 16gb free for games should be enough. My prediction for the price (399) would be 12tf.
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So 16gb for games only no OS eating into it? i guess that would be serviceable but still limit the scope of next gen games
Hope they can pull 24gb and 13tf+ by late 2020
 
DeepEnigma said:
This is a safe bet. I am still on the 10-12TF minimum camp, with RayTrace/RaySpace acceleration.
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We all know that 8Tflops is the starting point for Native 4k games. But I think SONY will choose for 10Tflops because they want to have a machine able to run better looking games than the current generation. I mean... If they want a true generational leap they will bring us at least the same performance of a RX VEGA 56/GTX 1070. These two GPUs are capable of running Native 4k Ultra Settings at stable 30fps. I can't imagine a console that's not able to hit Ultra Settings and Native 4k even at 30fps...

If they want to make better looking games the secret would be just reducing the filters of Textures, Shadows, Lighting and increase more polygon density, better animations and particles. The CPU would be responsable for A.I and advanced Physics... We all know that running Native 4k, Ultra Settings at 60fps is something for High End PCs. So I don't really care about Ultra Settings and 60fps. I just wanna know if this console will be able to run True 4k and a little bit better graphics at 30fps. Thats enough. More than these things should be a proposal for the PS5 PRO and Xbox Scarlet X in 2023.
 
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John Peter said:
We all know that 8Tflops is the starting point for Native 4k games. But I think SONY will choose for 10Tflops because they want to have a machine able to run better looking games than the current generation. I mean... If they want a true generational leap they will bring us at least the same performance of a RX VEGA 56/GTX 1070. These two GPUs are capable of running Native 4k Ultra Settings at stable 30fps. I can't imagine a console that's not able to hit Ultra Settings and Native 4k even at 30fps...

If they want to make better looking games the secret would be just reduce de filters of Textures, Shadows, Lighting and increase more polygon density, better animations as particles. The CPU would be responsable for A.I and advanced Physics... We all know that running Native 4k, Ultra Settings at 60fps is something for High End PCs. So I don't really care about Ultra Settings and 60fps. I just wanna know if this console will be able of run True 4k and a little bit better graphics at 30fps. Thats enough. More than these things should be a proposal for the PS5 PRO and Xbox Scarlet X in 2023.
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I agree, and the closed box nature with a min-spec 10-12TF with customization's and Ryzen will still blow minds as a base spec. Look at what they are doing with a 1.84TF base and Jaguar min-spec... now 5-6x that on the GPU end, and 3x that minimum on the CPU end not including the massive memory bandwidth in comparison. Some underestimate that caveat.
 
Honestly I don't think PS5, is gonna go through some major major changes. I feel like sony is gonna play it really safe and probably up the specs not enough making microsofts next gen console be the better system to go towards, if anything that ms is going towards is gonna be worth the upgrade.

I feel like this is just me but 4K is stupid to go after I'd rather they go for performance, and 2K/1440p. It's stupid. The majority of console owners do not own 4K tvs. So targeting that is in my opinion really stupid.
 
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DeepEnigma said:
I agree, and the closed box nature with a min-spec 10-12TF with customization's and Ryzen will still blow minds as a base spec. Look at what they are doing with a 1.84TF base and Jaguar min-spec... now 5-6x that on the GPU end, and 3x that minimum on the CPU end not including the massive memory bandwidth in comparison. Some underestimate that caveat.
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Yes! Could you imagine how many things we'll see playing games with Ryzen 8-Core 3.2Ghz CPU based in mind? Destruction, physics and A.I. The current gen games are amazing enough and I just want to see them running at native 4k on our advenced OLED and QLED tvs. Developers are aways capable of pushing their engines and consoles to the max. Resident Evil 8, God of War 5, Gears of War 6, Horizon Zero Dawn 2 will be amazing. No matter how much power will be increased inside the box.

But I repeat... I hope that all these consoles should be able to run Native 4k... Nothing less than this otherwise we'll be looking for another Xbox One 900p case. 4k is the future.
I don't know... But I think this games are increasing some of the next gen console filtures... I mean... Look at the hair, particles and animations.

IaW2zsu.gif

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3079377-deathstranding-screen-ps4-006-1465877396.jpg
 
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Blam said:
I feel like this is just me but 4K is stupid to go after I'd rather they go for performance, and 2K/1440p. It's stupid. The majority of console owners do not own 4K tvs. So targeting that is in my opinion really stupid.
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I feel the same, alot of power is wasted to get native 4k. Problem is they can't backtrack on 4k now after they pushed it so hard for pro/x revisions, if they do consumers will see it as a downgrade. Which is why i feel 13tf range is the minimum for a proper next gen jump
 
SonGoku said:
I feel the same, alot of power is wasted to get native 4k. Problem is they can't backtrack on 4k now after they pushed it so hard for pro/x revisions, if they do consumers will see it as a downgrade. Which is why i feel 13tf range is the minimum for a proper next gen jump
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I hope they won't make the same mistake when TVs start to get 8k resolution. Because if they try to make consoles with 8k support we'll be wasting hardware resources again and again. We'll never see a big jump in graphics like PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3 happening again...
 
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John Peter said:
I hope they won't make the same mistake when TVs start to get 8k resolution. Because if they try to make consoles with 8k support we'll be wasting hardware resources again and again. We'll never see a big jump in graphics like PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3 happening again...
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PSVR will likely see the largest benefit out of next-gen.
 
John Peter said:
I hope they won't make the same mistake when TVs start to get 8k resolution. Because if they try to make consoles with 8k support we'll be wasting hardware resources again and again. We'll never see a big jump in graphics like PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3 happening again...
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Yeah... heres hoping 4k remains the TV standard for the next 20 years or maybe the jump from sillicone will yield such massive performance that will make 8k not taxing
bitbydeath said:
PSVR will likely see the largest benefit out of next-gen.
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Not if the GPU is a half step (8-11tf range)
 
SonGoku said:
Yeah... heres hoping 4k remains the TV standard for the next 20 years or maybe the jump from sillicone will yield such massive performance that will make 8k not taxing

Not if the GPU is a half step (8-11tf range)
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Listen to me now! TF number is not going to be as important next gen it's going to be about the bespoke hardware on the SoC
 
SonGoku said:
I feel the same, alot of power is wasted to get native 4k. Problem is they can't backtrack on 4k now after they pushed it so hard for pro/x revisions, if they do consumers will see it as a downgrade. Which is why i feel 13tf range is the minimum for a proper next gen jump
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Sony doesn't have to backtrack on 4K. They can just continue to offer checkerboarding support and call it 4K for the marketing bullet point. Throwing pricey hardware just to reach native 4K when its improvement over checkerboarding are marginal makes no sense. That is especially true since 4K TVs won't even have 50 percent household market penetration by 2020. It makes much more sense to hold off targeting native 4k for the PS5 Pro in 2022-23. Another possible compromise would be to launch with two SKUs with the more expensive one aiming for native 4k, but that would make for some messy marketing.
 
SonGoku said:
Whats the point of a PS5 with these puny specs? it does not deserve to be called PS5
Just release Pro+ if theres market demand for it and delay the real PS5 till a proper next gen leap is possible, none of this half step shenanigans
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PS5 is a replacement for the PS4 OG NOT the Pro ...8tflops+ wouldn't be a half step from the OG at all
 
ShirAhava said:
PS5 is a replacement for the PS4 OG NOT the Pro ...8tflops+ wouldn't be a half step from the OG at all
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I already said that PS5 will maybe hit something around 10Tflops. Mark Cerny thinks that 8Tflops is the starting point for True 4k games. But we need to understand that a next gen console should be able to run more than just 4k. But maybe better looking games too. So 10Tflops is the most plausible spec ever. Remember that a GTX1070/RX VEGA 56(10.5Tflops) are able to run all current gen games at 4k 30fps and Ultra Settings. Considering that a next gen GPU based on Navi 7nm could be faster than any current GPU with the same respective Teraflops because of the architecture built. We'll be looking at a significant generational leap in terms of Performance/Graphics.
Maybe 10Tflops from Navi 7nm could be compared with something near or equivalent to the GTX 1080/VEGA 64(12.6Tflops).
 
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Realistically, this is what I'm expecting from next-gen consoles from MS and Sony:

-11 to 13 Tflops of GPU power (7nm Navi)
-3rd Gen Ryzen 3 technology (60FPS for 90% of games)
-16GB GDDR6 RAM (~400GB/s memory bandwidth)
-2TB HDD
-4K UHD drive ($500) and disc-less ($400) options at launch
-Holiday 2020 release
 
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While we are sure of the traditional TF increase, im far more interested in the feature updates, particularly Ray Tracing.
Lets hope AMD is fully onboard and offer a competitive solution with achievable real-time ray tracing.

Otherwise there's less to look forward to except for higher resolutions and framerates.
Good for VR, nice but not very exciting for TV.
 
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