Imtjnotu
Member
that bandwidth will be eaten up so fast. i dont know if i can realistically see anything less than 500gb/s
Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Gamers are a much more tech-savy group and jump into new technologies quicker than the average consumer. The ~50% of people who will own 4K TVs by 2020 will most likely be comprised largely of avid gaming enthusiasts. Heck, you can purchase a brand new 50" Samsung 4K TV now from Best Buy for only $400. The investment needed to enter is relatively low.
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John Peter
Banned
The most plausible predictions! Congratulations!
The only thing I daubt is the CPU generation. I think they will choose for the first gen of Ryzen.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Real talk, ray-tracing is a pipe dream for the upcoming consoles. If ray-tracing is supported, it will be for the "Pro" and "X" versions of the next-gen machines.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
The most plausible predictions! Congratulations!
The only thing I daubt is the CPU generation. I think they will choose for the first gen of Ryzen.
2017 CPUs inside of 2020 consoles? That seems a bit too conservative even for the likes of Sony and MS.
Supreme Allah
Banned
A 4K UHD drive cant be 100$. I think I read something about the difference between PS4 Pros blu ray drive and an UHD blu ray drive was like 15$ and that was almost 2 years ago.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
True, I was thinking $100 was too much of a discount for just that omission. But still, I do believe a disc-less SKU will be made available at least from one of these console manufacturers.
EventHorizon
Member
Consoles are also likely to be on secondary TVs. All those perfectly good 1080p sets out there right now aren't going away.
Btw, it is much less than 50% when talking worldwide. Why add to the price of a PS5 when it will only be an asset for less than half of your potential customer base?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The most plausible predictions! Congratulations!
The only thing I daubt is the CPU generation. I think they will choose for the first gen of Ryzen.
It is likely that AMD has a 7nm version of Ryzen 2 (or Ryzen+, the mid generation step released early this year), but not of the original Ryzen. See how they dealt with PS4 Pro's GPU.
John Peter
Banned
Ok, but do you really think PS5 will be realeased in late 2020? I just think that SONY will prefer to announce early 2019 and release late 2019. I'm not saying that because I want to see a next gen console as early as possible. I just think 2019 is a good year because SONY already said they will analyze their profitability and plan new projects starting in 2021. So starting a next gen console late 2019 is something similar to what happened with this current gen in late 2013. This gen began in 2014 from the marketing point of view. Another thing that makes me think that late 2019 is a good year for PS5 is something called rumors. They are getting more popular and that happens in all generations when we're approaching to the end of them. Next year AMD will realease NAVI 7nm(The next gen GPU). The project Erebus was recently found in codes of Unreal Engine. Developers are making a lot of damage control saying that it was a misconception. But we all know that SONY usually includes Mythological names in their projects. Erebus, in Greek mythology, is the fifth god to be created. The amazing and unbelieveble graphics that have been shown at E3 are at least one step forward from everything we can imagine running in a simple PS4,PS4 PRO.
In the worst case I could expect these games running in the both generations. Repeating the same crossgen marketing made with The Last of Us, Watch Dogs, GTA V, Destiny and others. We have a lot of clues to believe that PS5 will hit the market in late 2019.So I think the specs below will be plausible:
NAVI 7nm with 10Tflops
8-Core Ryzen 3.2Ghz/First or Second Generation
16 GDDR6
1TB HDD
UHD Blu-Ray disc for $499 or disc less for $399.
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Ar¢tos
Member
That part is never gonna happen. You will have 60fps for 10% of the games.
Optimising for 30fps is cheaper, faster and the game sales will be the same. Graphics sell games, not fps. Don't forget that 95% (or more) of gamers aren't part of gaming forums.
Blam
Member
Really dumb imo for them to have pushed it. But well now all we get is checkboard shit or downgraded shit.
John Peter
Banned
Do you think PS4 is able to run something like Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding and The Last of Us 2 with all those filters enabled? I mean... These graphics are at least one step ahead from all games we've seen in this generation. I think they will be crossgen games and the PS4 version will be downgraded.
llien
Banned
Guys, frames per tflops measurement is as meaningful as GHZ was as measurement of CPU speed, back in P4 Prescott vs Athlon 64 times.
You need to realize that "perf per square mm of silicon" is the only valid metric, together with, perhaps, power consumption.
AMD crams more shaders into the same silicon area, if they would "perform the same" AMD would wipe the floor with nVidia cards.
It is also misconception that AMD's shaders "do less", as "flops" is a quite strict measurement of the number of floating point operations card can perform.
But graphic cards are more than shaders, and that "other stuff" normally has no "flops" like simple figure assigned to it.
If AMD doubles or tripples PS4 performance, it is all that matters, which number of tflops it will have with that, is minor details with no gaming performance impact.
Klik
Member
Bought PSVR week ago,im amazed with it.Playing racing games in VR is a gamechanger, its astonishing.I cant go back to flat tv after VR for racing games. Thats too bad because VR doesnt support online in Gran Turismo Sport so dont even play it anymore.
Klik
Member
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Customers expectations on a next generation console targeted at 4K TV's, advantage for games physical distribution as UHD Blu-Ray pack more data in each disc and have much higher transfer speed, and 4K TV's will be a lot more pervasive. By end of 2019 way too many customers will have a 4K TV set to launch with a big standard 2013 disc drive.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
If you have a pro its a good decision but how is about me who didnt bought a pro and played only on the OG
I only have a base model, I was seriously considering a Pro but I am just going to go all out when PS5 releases and get a nice new 4K TV at the same time.
mitchman
Gold Member
Add Dolby Vision and HEVC license costs to the hardware cost, not to mention the extra cost for R&D on playing UHD discs.
Frank Spencer
Banned
For example how much of a leap is this from the base PS4? Is it as big as the leap from PS2 to PS3? Thanks.
John Peter
Banned
No... I think that's something around 5x 6x of increase. The jump from PS2 to PS3 was bigger.
But I don't really know if 11Tflops from NAVI 7nm architecture is equivalent to the high end current gpus or more advanced than that.
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Ar¢tos
Member
All that isn't much for Sony, they already pay those licenses for others of their electronics and they already have UHD drives, no need for more R&D. They are also the bluray group member with the most patents on bluray discs tech, so they always get some cashback from their share of the rights.
Frank Spencer
Banned
But never the less a bigger jump than PS3 to PS4?
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Nope, a smaller jump than even that. Expect games to look relatively the same as now except with 4K resolution, higher frame-rates, and more CPU bound improvements like higher NPC density and more destructible environments.
Frank Spencer
Banned
Might try and hold out for the PS5 Pro then if that happens. I didn't buy my PS4 until 2 years in anyways.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Ok, but do you really think PS5 will be realeased in late 2020? I just think that SONY will prefer to announce early 2019 and release late 2019. I'm not saying that because I want to see a next gen console as early as possible. I just think 2019 is a good year because SONY already said they will analyze their profitability and plan new projects starting in 2021. So starting a next gen console late 2019 is something similar to what happened with this current gen in late 2013. This gen began in 2014 from the marketing point of view. Another thing that makes me think that late 2019 is a good year for PS5 is something called rumors. They are getting more popular and that happens in all generations when we're approaching to the end of them. Next year AMD will realease NAVI 7nm(The next gen GPU). The project Erebus was recently found in codes of Unreal Engine. Developers are making a lot of damage control saying that it was a misconception. But we all know that SONY usually includes Mythological names in their projects. Erebus, in Greek mythology, is the fifth god to be created. The amazing and unbelieveble graphics that have been shown at E3 are at least one step forward from everything we can imagine running in a simple PS4,PS4 PRO.
So I think the specs below will be plausible:
NAVI 7nm with 10Tflops
8-Core Ryzen 3.2Ghz/First or Second Generation
16 GDDR6
1TB HDD
UHD Blu-Ray disc for $499 or disc less for $399.
The only reason 2019 PS5 release is very doubtful IMO is because so many PS4 exclusives are supposed to launch next year. Days Gone, Death Stranding, and Last of Us 2 (probably 2020 release date) will be recently delivered games and incentive to purchase a brand new console will be low when all these games are out for the old console.
Darius87
Member
That was not guessing spec that's what we know for sure technologies ps4 will have and 8Tflops is minimum what PS5 will be at worst case scenario of course it will be much higher my estimate it should be around 12Tflops, that's 9x Xone's 7x PS4's, 3x Pro's and 2x Xonex's but more important what new technologies PS5 will feature? Hearing rumors that vega 7nm could be 20Tflops makes my estimates little bit low.
John Peter
Banned
Yes! Maybe we'll see a bigger jump than PS3 to PS4. But the problem in this case is something called 4k resolution that consumes a lot of hardware resources. So I don't think we'll see a big diference in terms of graphics. Maybe something related to 4k 60fps in 60% or 70% of the games. Just some kind of special triple A would be made to run at 4k 30fps because of the advanced graphics. But anyways... We should be proud of what we can play in termos of games and graphics today. We don't need more than this. We just need to hit native 4k and 60fps.
John Peter
Banned
It depends on what kind of improvements the NAVI 7nm will bring us. If AMD improve the performance per TeraFlop next year. Just 10 or 11Tflops will be enough to run native 4k 60fps. GTX 1080 have something around 9Tflops and it's totally able to run native 4k 60fps. Let's wait till next year to look at the secrets behind the development of NAVI.
llien
Banned
Should be around 1080 levels.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Yes! Maybe we'll see a bigger jump than PS3 to PS4. But the problem in this case is something called 4k resolution that consumes a lot of hardware resources. So I don't think we'll see a big diference in terms of graphics. Maybe something related to 4k 60fps in 60% or 70% of the games. Just some kind of special triple A would be made to run at 4k 30fps because of the advanced graphics. But anyways... We should be proud of what we can play in termos of games and graphics today. We don't need more than this. We just need to hit native 4k and 60fps.
Dynamic resolution and scaling techniques will take care of most of this issue. Few big games will do 4K native next-gen as that is a waste and not smart. Even Nvidia are making use of such techniques as it saves so much pixel power.
Darius87
Member
I disagree 2019 late realease is perfect time for sony to release PS5, or before 2020 Tokyo summer olympics, sony would miss huge promotion oportunity if they realease after summer olympics, and it's in Japan sony land, so i expect PS5 to land from 2019 november to 2020 may, all these games just makes PS5 launch lineup stronger so that's advantage rather then disadvantage also we could expect 1 or 2 exclussives for PS5 at launch.
John Peter
Banned
Yes... I understand you... But I think that will be a bad marketing... The entire industry is trying to make native 4k standard. If they try to sell a console that can not run at 4k in late 2019/2020. People will not accept it very well. But anyways... If what you say becomes real, developers will be able to make better looking games without compromise.
Darius87
Member
Devs won't utilize all PS5 resources, at start, and PS5 will be 4K 30fps machine at minimum (that is 8Tflops) so most games will be 4K native not few, but upscaling to 4K is tradeoff and depends of devs choice like 60fps, but later it could be necessary to upscale to save performance, but talking performance wise PS5 should do native 4K with no sweat, sony said themselfs PS5 will be 4K native machine.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I'd be happy if 3rd parties reached the graphical level of The Order 1886. 1st parties will obviously go beyond though.
John Peter
Banned
Look at Shadow of The Tomb Raider on Xbox One X! Resident Evil 2 Remake, Gears of War 5, God of War, Rage 2, Doom Eternal, Red Dead Redemption 2, DaysGone, Forza Horizon 4 and many other games. I think 3rd and 1st parties are hitting the same level of The Order 1886/Ryse Son of Rome graphics... Maybe better!!!
The Order and Ryse Son of Rome were just benchmarks looking for the future that we're capable of looking at in games today.
I'm impressed by the look of future games like Ghost of Tsushima, Last of Us 2 and Death Stranding. They are maybe a kind of next era of graphics in industry.
SonGoku
Member
Im aware tf is not be all end all (i.e Nvidia cards beating amd ) but it gives you a general approximation of the level performance you can expect, sure fixed hw will be great, especially optimized for consoles but it also wont make miracles happen (see rtx performance hit). I also don't expect them to use a majority of the die budget on fixed hw.
Fixed hw or not 8tf-11tf won't cut it for a proper next gen jump (assuming performance per flop doesn't change much compared to vega)
I sure hope so, 1800p checkerboard is good enough, they can save native 4k for Pro revision, its just feels native 4k will be the new marketing battleground (720p/900p vs 1080p this gen)
It would be the smallest generational jump (excluding Nintendo), 4 PS4s ducked taped together is not enough for a gen jump. He'll the xbone vs x is a bigger jump (1.2 vs 6tf) The benefits you would get on the GPU side of things would be more akin to a revision than a clear next gen jump
He'll even with the massive jump in GPU and memory, people were saying at the start of the gen that PS4 games didn't look that much better besides. I don't think Sony will rush into next gen with a half baked PS5 and if they do i hope ms steals their lunch
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SonGoku
Member
8-11tf range and 16gb ram would be considerably smaller than the PS3>PS4 jump
720>1080p was a huge rez jump as well
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Ar¢tos
Member
You are thinking about specs only, and forgetting the install base.
If the Ps4 Pro is at maybe 5 million, then 8-11tf is a massive upgrade for 75 million people (or more by 2020), ps4pro is less than 10% of the install base, and the CPU upgrade alone will make it worth it in comparison for ps4pro owners.
SonGoku
Member
That's the problem. I don't think 8tf is a massive upgrade at all from the base console, the 4k jump alone will eat a big chunk of it
Minimum i expect 12tf for a noticeable next gen jump, im hopeful for something in the 13tf range and even that won't be as big as the PS360>PS4 jump
24gb of FAST ram (or worse case scenario 16gb plus separate 4gb pool for OS)
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Darius87
Member
No you're wrong do the math:
PS3-0.4Tflop PS4-1.84Tflop That's 4.6x increase
1.84*4.6=8.46Tflop that's threshold anything above that would be better jump then PS3<PS4, it's clearly that PS5 will be bigger jump then PS3 to PS4. 13tf would be 7.06x increase, 16gb to 20gb of ram is what it will have.
GermanZepp
Member
Is not the things that you think will do a generational jump that are going to be inside a $399,99 box man, if we are really lucky nvidia 1070 levels of performance in GPU. 16GB GDDR6 + 4gb for OS Maybe.. Navi 7nm Edit: wrong numbers
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FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I'd like to know, to all those people expecting 16GB or more of GDDR6, how does one realistically see that in a console? RAM right now is insanely expensive, and even with prices expected to go down a bit, I still highly doubt we will get more than 12GB if faster RAM like the Xbox One X. I'd see 16GB maximum if the console is at least 500$.
If 2019, I expect the following:
8 Core Ryzen CPU (gen 1 of 2 at 10nm)
Custom GPU (~10TFlops)
12GB Ram (GDDR5 (X) or GDDR6)
1TB HDD
4K Blu-Ray (one can hope!)
399$
I think 2GB will be dedicated to the OS and 10GB for the games. If the have 16GB, I expect a 449$-500$ price at a minimum. I would suspect RAM to stay at 12 and go up to 16 with PS5 Pro, same with 7nm, and spec bump to the gpu / ray tracing to make a differentiating factor for te half step and also because AMD is behind nvidia and I also don't think ray tracing is quite ready for prime time at an entry level price.
If 2019, I expect the following:
8 Core Ryzen CPU (gen 1 of 2 at 10nm)
Custom GPU (~10TFlops)
12GB Ram (GDDR5 (X) or GDDR6)
1TB HDD
4K Blu-Ray (one can hope!)
399$
I think 2GB will be dedicated to the OS and 10GB for the games. If the have 16GB, I expect a 449$-500$ price at a minimum. I would suspect RAM to stay at 12 and go up to 16 with PS5 Pro, same with 7nm, and spec bump to the gpu / ray tracing to make a differentiating factor for te half step and also because AMD is behind nvidia and I also don't think ray tracing is quite ready for prime time at an entry level price.
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Ar¢tos
Member
You're assuming native 4k for all games, but Sony is probably going to invest even more in hardware customizations for CB and improve the software side of it too. A good implementation of CB will free resources and will be very hard to tell apart from native 4k, aside from looking for it in screenshots.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
Paying an extra $100 for the disc drive is absolutely ludicrous.
TLZ
Banned
Wait, isn't PS3 230~ gflops? Where'd the 400 come from?
Darius87
Member
My guess PS5 will be 12Tflops that's more then enough for native 4K 30fps for most AAA titles, i think CB is choice of devs at first 3 years of next gen, then later it might be necessary to inplement to save performance, so my guess 4K will be base resolution.
Darius87
Member
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/playstation-3-vs-playstation-4-in-depth-spec-comparison/
It says:
GPU: RSX "Reality Synthesizer" @ 500MHz, 400 GFLOPS floating point performance
but i guess that also includes cell stream processors doesn't make any difference actually.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
That's bullshit marketing flops.
The PS3 GPU was much closer to 230-250GFLOPs.
The Cell's vector performance shouldn't come into it because it's not used in the GPU rendering pipeline.
Darius87
Member
There's actually more then one different numbers:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/playstation-3-vs-playstation-4-in-depth-spec-comparison/ this says it's 400Gflops
https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/console-gpu-power-compared-ranking-systems-by-flop/2900-1334/7/ this says it's 230.4Gflops
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_technical_specifications and this says it's 192Gflops
and cell has 230.4Gflops in single precision, but just 15 Gflops for double, that's weird should it be 230 / 2 =115Gflops?