Support NeoGAF

[DoctaThompson]

Metro Exodus has a rocky launch on PC - but there's a fix

No Metro Exe. file

www.techradar.com

Borderlands 3 Gets Off To A Rocky PC Launch

Reports from players are suggesting that the PC launch of Borderlands 3 is providing a few problems. Particularly if you use DirectX 12.

www.eteknix.com

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare PC players are experiencing crashes after 1.07 update

It sounds like it's becoming a serious problem.

dotesports.com

I mean the examples are endless but I understand defending PC as a platform is important to you so no matter what I say I won't convince you which is fine.

You don't have to convince me of anything.

Metro Exodus bug only happened on epic games launcher, which was remedied pretty fast.

Borderlands 3 was patched, and it only affected frames. Which were still much faster than consoles can play at, so take that as you may.

Cod was fixed pretty fast.


While you are here trying to cheery pick, did you just so happen to skip over how problematic Metro Exodus is on console? Anthem glitches, crashes? People bricking their console after updates? What about Skyrim on console? Bfv launch, you remember that? FALLOUT was a funny console game. Driveclub had connectivity issues for the longest after launch. It's a fact that consoles have more bugs and glitches than pc, ESPECIALLY on day one for new games

 

[nkarafo]

I can buy console games that I can keep and play in 20 years if I want, sell, trade in, let a friend borrow, etc. PC is all digital and the games have no value or guarantee they will be playable in a few years let alone 20.

PC games can be backed up. PC games also get cracked so you can play them whenever you want, without any dependency. PC games are also backwards compatible (most of the time) and they will be playable on your next PC and the next one after that, without additional costs.

Digital only games on consoles though... The only way to play some games that are not available anymore is to buy second hand PS4's that have those installed (and they are not cheap). And what happens when these consoles die? Are these games even cracked? And who knows when companies decide to make their consoles backwards compatible or not. They rather re-sell your old games on the new platforms instead.

 

[DoctaThompson]

In this last generation building an expensive PC could give you a big advantage over PS4 and XBOX ONE specially for the CPU as main bottleneck, but the upcoming XBOXsX and PS5 have enough power to make that difference very slim IMHO. Once devs can get a game running at 4k on both consoles at 60 fps, what advantages can give you a PC? 8K? On what TV or monitor?

If you think consoles can hang with even medium spec'd computers.... I've got bad news for you. Remember how xbox one and ps4 were supposed to play all games in 4k @ 60fps? But can't even run some games at a full 1080p and can't maintain a measly 30fps?!

 

[adamosmaki]

I like how console gamers complain about price yet praise MS and Sony for releasing mid gen a more powerful console ( aka ps4 pro, x1x ) because they want better Teh graphics. I also like how they continue paying 50-60 for just playing online. And despite finding great prices on games on consoles usually games on pc due to the amount of DD stores to buy them are cheaper

 

[nkarafo]

What console people don't understand is that there is no such thing as a 500$ gaming PC. Nobody is going to build that, cheap PCs don't have good value. You will end up with a machine that is less capable than a console in the long run. PCs have way more value at higher price ranges. At 1000$ you can get a PC that will be more powerful than a console and play games at higher frame rates/details through the whole generation. With that amount of money you could build a 3rd or 4th gen i5 with a GTX 970 back in 2014 and you could still play multiplatform games at better frame rates/details than consoles now (source, me). Maybe not 60fps/Ultra right now but still better than consoles.

Yes, it's more expensive but the value is there, you get what you pay for (better performance, more freedom, more homebrew stuff, backwards compatibility, etc). Consoles are cheaper and they get the job done at half the price but your experience will always be the average one. Average frame rates, average graphics, average everything.

 

[Journey]

there is no reason to own consoles anymore. they barely have any console games, they just have PC ports. play the superior version on PC, back in the day console games were made for console. not ported from PC

Yea, I'm looking forward to playing the next God of War on PC


But let's forget about exclusives for a second and pretend everything under the sun is also on PC. It's very hard to build a PC with the same form factor, quiteness and bang for your buck as a console from launch. You also forget the fact that games are highly optimized for these machines which increases the bang for your buck further as time progresses; your mid-to-high range GPU purchase from 2020 may not be ideal for 2022 titles, but these games will be highly optimized and part of the 2nd/3rd gen software where consoles shine, and sure, you can buy a GPU in 2022 that will kick the consoles butts, but now you're 2 GPU purchases deep.

Here's what I would recommend, instead of purchasing an expensive GPU that probably costs as much, if not more than Xbox Series X, you instead buy an Xbox Series X, and with it you can play ALL of Xbox games all the way down to OG Xbox titles, fast SSD load times for new titles and all other benefits of the new generation, and then a couple of years down the road, maybe 2022, NOW you build your PC, but don't built it at the console's launch, that's just dumb.

 

[nkarafo]

I like how console gamers complain about price yet praise MS and Sony for releasing mid gen a more powerful console ( aka ps4 pro, x1x ) because they want better Teh graphics. I also like how they continue paying 50-60 for just playing online. And despite finding great prices on games on consoles usually games on pc due to the amount of DD stores to buy them are cheaper

Yeah, in the long run and especially if you buy a lot of games, you end up pay less as a PC gamer. The hardware is more expensive but everything else is cheaper.

 

[sunnysideup]

There is not a single next gen game aviable on pc.

Only current gen console ports.

Next gen starts on console.

 

[nkarafo]

instead of purchasing an expensive GPU that probably costs as much, if not more than Xbox Series X

Huh? You don't need a 500$+ GFX card to match or surpass a console. By the time the new consoles are out a mid-range card (such as the 3060) will probably be more powerful at 300$. The 960 (from back in the day) is more powerful than the base consoles today and it did cost less than that. Though the 2GB VRAM limit was a problem so you had to wait for the 4GB version a bit later. I don't think the next gen of mid-range cards will have such VRAM issues though.

 

[DoctaThompson]

There is not a single next gen game aviable on pc.

Only current gen console ports.

Next gen starts on console.

You got any screen shots or video? Not including some of the next gen games that have been shown already, which ended up being pc game play. So let's see what you can show us from CONSOLE.

 

[Snakeeyes646]

But i want a console not a pc thanks.

 

[sunnysideup]

You got any screen shots or video? Not including some of the next gen games that have been shown already, which ended up being pc game play. So let's see what you can show us from CONSOLE.

No i dont have any screens of next gen games. Because there are non.

 

[BitDust]

If you think consoles can hang with even medium spec'd computers.... I've got bad news for you. Remember how xbox one and ps4 were supposed to play all games in 4k @ 60fps? But can't even run some games at a full 1080p and can't maintain a measly 30fps?!

I honestly don't remember that, when did they say they could run 4K@60fps gaming? The only game I know running at such performance is Forza 7 on XBOXoneX. What I'm sure of is that devs will need a lot of time and work to use all that power that XBOXsX and PS5 are going to bring and consoles don't need to run Windows, they're dedicated hardware. But of course I know that PC will bring higher performance, but how much and at what cost?

 

[DoctaThompson]

No i dont have any screens of next gen games. Because there are non.

But even the few bits we have seen on next gen games, were all demoed on pc.... I don't get it? They are next gen games, that were displayed on pc, not console? This is what happens at e3, and other game shows. There's a reason pc is always slown. I'll give you a hint as to why it's always pc.

Spoiler

"Because it's obviously years ahead in performance. And they want games to look good for consumers, instead of playing the dumbed down console versions. "

 

[Ellery]

People are way too invested in this fight. Most of the posts are snide remarks, insults and presenting wrong information as facts to fuel a misguided agenda.

We are all in this amazing gaming world together. Cheers on you if you can enjoy it, cheers on you if you can enjoy both.





Except for mobile gamers. They are not my friends and I hope they burn in freemium microtransaction timegated hell.

 

[scalman]

no you shouldnt build PC because its on another galaxy of money needed. consoles will be just normal price as allways. for now im good with gtx 1060 laptop on 1080p , but im sure it will change with next gen consoles and i wont keep up anymore sadly.

 

[Smaller than Atom]

PC gamers always try to get people to game on pcs.

No.

 

[sunnysideup]

But even the few bits we have seen it next gen games, were all demoed on pc.... I don't get it? They are next gen games, that were displayed on pc, not console? This is what happens at e3, and other game shows. There's a reason pc is always slown. I'll give you a hint as to why it's always pc.

Spoiler

"Because it's obviously years ahead in performance. And they want games to look good for consumers, instead of playing the dumbed down console versions. "

Years ahead in hardware performence sure, yet stuck with software based on 7 year old hardware.

Next gen starts when consoles are released. And from how it looks. Most third party games will still be based on ps4. Cross gen crap.

True next gen shit, console exclusive.

 

[autoduelist]

I don't want to build something. I want to buy something I buy in a box that I plug into my tv. I want the same plug and play experience as everyone else i might play online with. I want to share in the excitement of big exclusive reveals.

I remember back when I put together a pc or 2, and invested the time into optimizing them and changing boot screens and other stuff like that. Fun times. Old times. Now i just want to pay 400 bucks every eight years or so.

I do miss certain genres that only pc has [grand strategy, generally], but i also know i'm never going to sit down and play those nowadays.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Years ahead in hardware performence sure, yet stuck software based on 7 year old hardware.

Next gen starts when consoles are released. And from how it looks. Most third party games will still be based on ps4. Cross gen crap.

True next gen shit, console exclusive.

You need to really open your mind up. I don't care if you buy or build a PC, or if you never do. But I don't like the spewing of b.s. PC's have already led the next gen, and will continue to do so. You can't develop a game on console. Therefore console games will never have an advantage over pc's, if pc's can't even run the game, more or less CREATE the game. Gotta use your kid.

 

[Journey]

Huh? You don't need a 500$+ GFX card to match or surpass a console. By the time the new consoles are out a mid-range card (such as the 3060) will probably be more powerful at 300$. The 960 (from back in the day) is more powerful than the base consoles today and it did cost less than that. Though the 2GB VRAM limit was a problem so you had to wait for the 4GB version a bit later. I don't think the next gen of mid-range cards will have such VRAM issues though.

Can you build a PC for $399 that will outmatch the consoles at their respective launch? I have an Intel 4th gen i5 in my current PC with a GTX 1050 Ti, I doubt just upgrading my GPU will suffice. We're not even talking form factor yet, I'm putting this in my TV stand and it has to be whisper quiet.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Can you build a PC for $399 that will outmatch the consoles at their respective launch? We're not even talking form factor yet, I'm putting this in my TV stand and it has to be whisper quiet.

Current consoles are much louder than my pc, which has 8 fans lol (silent af). Next gen consoles will be even louder, as they will draw much more power, and exhaust more heat. Can you show me a confirmed price of the consoles? Rumors are 499 and 599 right now. Show me a concrete price and I'll see what i can do.

 

[sunnysideup]

You need to really open your mind up. I don't care if you buy or build a PC, or if you never do. But I don't like the spewing of b.s. PC's have already led the next gen, and will continue to do so. You can't develop a game on console. Therefore console games will never have an advantage over pc's, if pc's can't even run the game, more or less CREATE the game. Gotta use your kid.

Derp derp derp.

I built my first peeeceee back in 96. Before then i played amiga and atari st.

I am right you are wrong.

There are no "next gen" pc games. You get your ports in a year or so.

 

[sendit]

In this last generation building an expensive PC could give you a big advantage over PS4 and XBOX ONE specially for the CPU as main bottleneck, but the upcoming XBOXsX and PS5 have enough power to make that difference very slim IMHO. Once devs can get a game running at 4k on both consoles at 60 fps, what advantages can give you a PC? 8K? On what TV or monitor?

Devs can get games running at 4k with 60fps on current consoles right now if they targeted performance over graphics. However, they won't. People like pretty graphics. What makes you think things will change?

The advantage a PC has is fine tuning your experience to how you want it. It comes at a cost. Although, the end results are well worth it.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Derp derp derp.

I built my first peeeceee back in 96. Before then i played amiga and atari st.

I am right you are wrong.

There are no "next gen" pc games. You get your ports in a year or so.

Not a good argument. It didn't have anything to do with you or my previous quote. Anything else to add? Or will you stop spewing b.s lies?

 

[nkarafo]

Can you build a PC for $399 that will outmatch the consoles at their respective launch? I have an Intel 4th gen i5 in my current PC with a GTX 1050 Ti, I doubt just upgrading my GPU will suffice. We're not even talking form factor yet, I'm putting this in my TV stand and it has to be whisper quiet.

You talked about a graphics card in particular, not a whole PC.

Also it's pretty funny to me how you are commenting on the low noises. Just about every console i ever had is louder than my current PC. Even the XBOX360 slim, which is pretty quiet, is louder than my PC. Because i got a 212 Evo cooler, plus the graphics card i choose is also whisper quiet (Gigabyte 1060). When the PC is idle you can't tell if it's ON or OFF. Under heavy gaming it's still less loud than the 360 slim. And my temps are always low. I don't think you have the same amount of freedom for your PS4, you are stuck with whatever cooler and thermal paste it has and let's hope the Chinese man who built yours was in a good day.

I don't trust small factor or pre-build devices anymore, they always get hot or loud and if something fails i can't replace or fix it, i will have to get rid of the whole thing and get a new one. A good PC case with a decent aftermarket cooler makes me feel much better than a small box that looks better on the table.

 

[Jtibh]

You know you can connect a PS4/XBOX one controller on a PC and use it like a console with STEAM's Big box don't you?

You can even use Kodi and do more stuff with a gamepad. I watch Youtube/movies and listen to music with the gamepad. I also launch my whole emulator setup with it. I only touch the keyboard/mouse when i want to browse online (i could do that with the gamepad as well but it's slower).

I know. But i like my living room nice and clean and ....mature.
I want to see no pc in my living room thats soo uncool.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Oh hell no.

I'd rather be playing than diagnosing what's going wrong and trying to fix shit.

Before you go ballistic I'll remind you I've been PC gaming since Wolfenstein was a thing. I fully quit bout 5 years ago, except for DotA.

 

[nkarafo]

I know. But i like my living room nice and clean and ....mature.
I want to see no pc in my living room thats soo uncool.

Just hide the PC case?

Also, does your PC look like this?

You can always get a plain PC case like this:

I don't see how this could look less "mature" than a console.

 

[DoctaThompson]

I know. But i like my living room nice and clean and ....mature.
I want to see no pc in my living room thats soo uncool.

I've always been under the impression that pc's invoke more maturity than a console, which can only be used for gaming or watching a movie.... I updated my resume the other day on one of these boxes, and got a better position in a job from it. Couldn't do that with a box that only can play games and movies.... Maturity my ass lol

 

[base]

I have both PC and PS4 Pro. I play some games on PC (CS:Go and RTS) but games like The Witcher 3 or Assassin's Creed I prefer to play on PS4 Pro. Why? For HDR, for using controller, it's much more comfortable to play on the couch. I do like 60 fps gaming but HDR works much better on consoles.

 

[nkarafo]

Why? For HDR, for using controller, it's much more comfortable to play on the couch. I do like 60 fps gaming but HDR works much better on consoles.

How is HDR better on a console?

Also, HDR, controller, couch gaming, etc, i already do these on a PC so i don't know how you couldn't.

 

[base]

How is HDR better on a console?

Also, HDR, controller, couch gaming, etc, i already do these on a PC so i don't know how you couldn't.

The HDR implementation in Windows 10 is poor. I had many problems with games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider to get proper HDR on PC.

 

[Damigos]

i do care about power.
FInd me a PC from 2013 that can do God of War graphics and i will buy it.
Also find me a PC that is not connected with EA oriings, Uplay etc and all that shit and i will also buy
Also me a PC that can use DISCS so we can borrow games from friends etc and i will buy it
So, in the end, its not only power, is it ?

 

[xPikYx]

I'm an happy pc gamer since 2010 when consoles lost their exclusive package and you can find far greater experiences on pc which I'm more than happy to pay for. You can't expect to go cheap and have the best but I do understand those whom accept this compromise for the sake of just play a game. I'm interested anyway in consoles specs for understanding how much pc games are bottlenecked and for how long

 

[nkarafo]

In this last generation building an expensive PC could give you a big advantage over PS4 and XBOX ONE specially for the CPU as main bottleneck, but the upcoming XBOXsX and PS5 have enough power to make that difference very slim IMHO. Once devs can get a game running at 4k on both consoles at 60 fps, what advantages can give you a PC? 8K? On what TV or monitor?

Keep dreaming about that 4k @ 60fps my man. Especially the 60fps part. Fixed hardware will NEVER follow that standard anymore, it was nice during the Dreamcast/PS2 era but that's gone now. There are no arcades to show to people how awesome 60fps is. Everyone is settled on the lowest common denominator that is 30fps and it will stay there because devs will always hunt the best looking effects. All that extra power of the new consoles will go to other things like some sort of ray-tracing. You will still be forced to play 99% of games @ 30fps.

Even with a mid-range a PC you can at least choose to sacrifice some eye candy to get the smooth frame rate if you wish. You can even choose if you want some annoying effects ON or OFF (chromatic aberration, motion blur, narrow field of view).

Oh and i already get the advantages of a 240hz monitor. I just finished Yooka-Laylee 2 playing at 120fps. The clarity of that smooth frame rate makes it worth it. At 60fps (let alone 30) scrolling looks like a blur. At 240fps (i played Monster Boy that way) it almost look as clear as a CRT. That's the kind of experience you will never get with a console.

 

[sendit]

i do care about power.
FInd me a PC from 2013 that can do God of War graphics and i will buy it.
Also find me a PC that is not connected with EA oriings, Uplay etc and all that shit and i will also buy
Also me a PC that can use DISCS so we can borrow games from friends etc and i will buy it
So, in the end, its not only power, is it ?

God of War isn't on PC, great argument. Find X exclusive on console and ask Y can't Z device play it.

I'll bite. While I look for a PC that can play God of War in 2013. Find me a PlayStation in 2013 that can play Forza Horizon.

 

[nkarafo]

Speaking about high refresh rate monitors, you know what else is great about PCs? You get a bunch of "remasters" for free, out of nowhere. Because PCs are backwards compatible, you can still play your last gen games on it. And last gen games can run really, really fast, at extremely high IQ. Have you tried Dead Space 2 at 240 fps (with higher resolution down-sampled) or higher? It looks and moves like a dream if you have the monitor. Most last gen PC games can get advantage of this. Especially racing games, some old ones like Dirt 3 feel amazing running at 240 fps. That's a huge bonus for someone like me who has a backlog of last gen games.

And yes, you can tell the difference because motion has more clarity on LCDs this way. It's not like how CRTs were always clear, you need high refresh rates/fps to get the same effect on an LCD.

Can't wait to get my new PC later this year so i can give PS4/XBOX one gen games the same treatment.

 

[Damigos]

God of War isn't on PC, great argument. Find X exclusive on console and ask Y can't Z device play it.

I'll bite. While I look for a PC that can play God of War in 2013. Find me a PlayStation in 2013 that can play Forza Horizon.

I hoped people would understand that i am talking about specs, not exclusivity but i guess i must clarify that

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

So let's use last gen for example. For the hardcore gamer, let's say they bought Xbox one, Xbox one s, and Xbox one x. Did you know that, plus Xbox live for the past 6 years, is much more expensive than a high end desktop? Even removing the Xbox one s from the equation, yields a minimum of 1$300 dollars just for the 2 consoles and xbl, with no games. Even just having a an Xbox one and xbl for 3 years, is more expensive than building a pc that will perform better than the best gen Xbox Sex or ps5.

Why does Xbox Live always get brought up as a required purchase in the discussion of PC vs Console gaming? I don't really do the online multiplayer thing myself, meaning it's not part of the equation.

 

[Jtibh]

Just hide the PC case?

Also, does your PC look like this?

You can always get a plain PC case like this:

I don't see how this could look less "mature" than a console.

Cant upload full sized file so here is a screenshot of the pic.
I wont put a pc in here anywhere. Couldnt and dont want to.
I have another living room and a big living room in basement.
Neither of those rooms are set up in a way that i can put in a pc.

Could i convert my basement into a man cave? I could.
Will i ever be allowed by wifey? Not a fucking chance.

 

[ZywyPL]

[...] Also find me a PC that is not connected with EA oriings, Uplay etc and all that shit and i will also buy
Also me a PC that can use DISCS so we can borrow games from friends etc and i will buy it
So, in the end, its not only power, is it ?

As much as I completely agree with GoW and 2013 hardware reference, the last two arguments are just so wrong and arrogant - it's entirely up to you whether you install particular launchers or not, hell, you don't have to stick with Windows to begin with. And no one is stopping you from building PC with optical disc drive either (which also eliminates the need of installing multiple stores/launchers).

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Cant upload full sized file so here is a screenshot of the pic.
I wont put a pc in here anywhere. Couldnt and dont want to.
I have another living room and a big living room in basement.
Neither of those rooms are set up in a way that i can put in a pc.

Could i convert my basement into a man cave? I could.
Will i ever be allowed by wify? Not a fucking chance.

Learn to love the Node 202.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Why does Xbox Live always get brought up as a required purchase in the discussion of PC vs Console gaming? I don't really do the online multiplayer thing myself, meaning it's not part of the equation.

I guess cause the majority of people who own an xbox, have xbl? I'd imagine around somewhere around 5% of people with an xbox, don't have xbl.

 

[DoctaThompson]

i do care about power.
FInd me a PC from 2013 that can do God of War graphics and i will buy it.
Also find me a PC that is not connected with EA oriings, Uplay etc and all that shit and i will also buy
Also me a PC that can use DISCS so we can borrow games from friends etc and i will buy it
So, in the end, its not only power, is it ?

PC hardware has forever been superior to what goes in consoles. There was a GTX 780 TI the released in 2013. The ps4 was the equivalent of a GTX 750. The 780 TI is several tiers about the ps4. A simple google search would show you this.

 

[Gavon West]

No thanks.

This

 

[waxer]

Value or people's wants aren't as simple as spec sheets or even long term upgrades etc. For example Once you add a significantly more expensive product then alternatives can come into the mix.

I'll take a fishing kayak with 30 year warrenty and a Ps4 over a gaming pc any day. For example.

Someone else might get more enjoyment showing off a flash rig than playing it. Doesn't really matter. There are So many factors in a person's decision making process. Boiling it down to a few then debating just that feels like its missing the point.

 

[BitDust]

Devs can get games running at 4k with 60fps on current consoles right now if they targeted performance over graphics. However, they won't. People like pretty graphics. What makes you think things will change?

The advantage a PC has is fine tuning your experience to how you want it. It comes at a cost. Although, the end results are well worth it.

PS4 and XBOXone are limited by CPU and 4K is too new for that kind of hardware. Some exceptions like Forza 7 and... is there any other game running at 4K@60fps on current gen?

Keep dreaming about that 4k @ 60fps my man. Especially the 60fps part. Fixed hardware will NEVER follow that standard anymore, it was nice during the Dreamcast/PS2 era but that's gone now. There are no arcades to show to people how awesome 60fps is. Everyone is settled on the lowest common denominator that is 30fps and it will stay there because devs will always hunt the best looking effects. All that extra power of the new consoles will go to other things like some sort of ray-tracing. You will still be forced to play 99% of games @ 30fps.

Even with a mid-range a PC you can at least choose to sacrifice some eye candy to get the smooth frame rate if you wish. You can even choose if you want some annoying effects ON or OFF (chromatic aberration, motion blur, narrow field of view).

Oh and i already get the advantages of a 240hz monitor. I just finished Yooka-Laylee 2 playing at 120fps. The clarity of that smooth frame rate makes it worth it. At 60fps (let alone 30) scrolling looks like a blur. At 240fps (i played Monster Boy that way) it almost look as clear as a CRT. That's the kind of experience you will never get with a console.

Ray tracing is what will lower the framerate most of the times in the upcoming generation. Once you disable ray tracing, everything will run at high framerate. Of course if you have tons of money to spend on new hardware to get the best out of a 240Hz monitor, go for it. But for me connecting that console to my monitor/TV and just play is priceless and I think this new generation will offer options to enjoy higher refresh rates too. I can't wait!

 

[Henry Clark]

Hey folks
1. PS5 is 12.2 RDNA 1.5 and XSX is 12.05 RDNA 1.5
2. PS5 3.6Ghz Zen 2 and XSX is 3.5Ghz
3. PS5 has 18GB+4gigs of ddr4 GDDR6 and XSX has 16 GB.
4. PS5 SSD 5.8GB/s upto 6GB/s on D1 and XSX for now is 3.5GB/s
5. Secret sauce for PS5
XSX is alot quieter.

 

[Henry Clark]

I will be banned soon.dont know about reveal. And exclusive will not be the problem for XSX believe me.