Support NeoGAF

[SantaC]

Microsoft is releasing DirectStorage API to PC soon, how beneficial do you think it could be to open world-ish games like Metro Exodus for example?

Ben Archard: Well, the key word there is beneficial and I think it will be very much so. Faster read access doesn't just allow for faster loading times, but also faster asset streaming. So that not only seems to promise more content in the environment but potentially more varied content as large assets such as high resolution textures and geometry are able to be paged in and out more rapidly

DirectStorage API Will Be Very Beneficial to PC Gaming, Says Metro Developer 4A Games

We talked to 4A Games Senior Rendering Programmer Ben Archard about the arrival of the DirectStorage API on PC and what it means for games.

wccftech.com

Rise up PC gamers!

 

[Ywap]

We always rise to 60 and above

 

[Negotiator101]

They are not even using this tech on the Series consoles yet so when they use it for PC it will work automatically with Xbox.

 

[Fbh]

I spent a year hearing about the mindblowing revolutionary wonders of SSD on console.
So far they have translated to: Faster loading.

 

[fatmarco]

PC needs quick resume too.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

PC needs quick resume too.

I mean it kind of has it with a super fast NVME and modern PC. Just put the PC in standby with the game running and it'll save that state for when you come back. Just don't try it with some online server connected game lol

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Hell yeah this with RTX IO and the upcoming PCIe 5.0 is gonna rad. PCIe 5.0 will allow 14GBps SSDs, compare that to PS5s 5.5GBps. Shits gonna be get real in these upcoming years.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Oh cool so pc can then do what the PS5 does right now. How exciting.

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

Oh cool so pc can then do what the PS5 does right now. How exciting.

That kind of talk will get you killed round these parts, son. Prepare for a million LOL/triggered reacts as you are called jealous for the next 3 days.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I've been waiting for PC's take the leap and flex harder once again. Fast storage is something we've had so much longer than any next gen platform yet the only difference we have isn't making the real noticeable impact, faster asset loads and load times in general.

On top of all the other SW and HW tricks, stuff like having your storage make an impact on performance is something I've been waiting for years and only until something like PS5 came out did I really stop cutting PC the slack I've been for a long while.

TLDR

Sons of bitches our time has come. AFRIKA BAMBATA AND THE ZULU NATION RISE UP!

 

[lh032]

We always rise to 60 and above

 

[Shmunter]

The sooner this comes, the faster we can move forward as a whole. The only question remains is will it be universally achievable to a high enough standard on bespoke pc hardware to make it a baseline target.

 

[Mike Zhang]

one less reason to buy ps5

 

[Buggy Loop]

The sooner this comes, the faster we can move forward as a whole. The only question remains is will it be universally achievable to a high enough standard on bespoke pc hardware to make it a baseline target.

I think the baseline for DirectStorage is PCIe 3.0 NVMe which introduced the hardware data access pipes, aka queues. I think with that target it eleminates older hardware dragging down the technology. It's the right move.

 

[Shmunter]

I think the baseline for DirectStorage is PCIe 3.0 NVMe which introduced the hardware data access pipes, aka queues. I think with that target it eleminates older hardware dragging down the technology. It's the right move.

What of the talk of RTX i/o? What about AMD GPU’s doing the decompression?

 

[Buggy Loop]

What of the talk of RTX i/o? What about AMD GPU’s doing the decompression?

Your guess is as good as mine, seems like the API manages itself the DirectStorage aspect and is not expecting Nvidia or AMD GPUs to help as the baseline. I guess Nvidia found a way to accelerate this even further, but until we see something about RTX IO, and the first DirectStorage game, it’s all unknown.

 

[Bulletbrain]

I'm really waiting on tangible/measurable evidence of how exactly developers will end up using the better I/O, both on PC and consoles. Right now it's all a bunch of hypotheticals.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Oh cool so pc can then do what the PS5 does right now. How exciting.

 

[Hoddi]

I think the baseline for DirectStorage is PCIe 3.0 NVMe which introduced the hardware data access pipes, aka queues. I think with that target it eleminates older hardware dragging down the technology. It's the right move.

Ya, NVMe both offers more queues and significantly lower CPU overhead compared with the older SATA standard. The difference is something like 1/3rd of the CPU cost if I remember right.

 

[Shmunter]

I'm really waiting on tangible/measurable evidence of how exactly developers will end up using the better I/O, both on PC and consoles. Right now it's all a bunch of hypotheticals.

Streaming tech in games is a feature for a long time now to feed assets into ram on demand. But it's slow and limited to HDD speed in the past gens.

Opening up the tap here means more performance and less restrictions for developers. More performance in any part of game design is beneficial.

Simple example for a streaming scenario, - traversing a building last gen you'd need to hold multiple adjacent rooms in ram because you couldn't load them fast enough as you went along. Now you could potentially fetch an entire room and it's assets fast enough not needing to have it pre-loaded. Not needing to pre-load frees up ram so individual rooms can have unique furniture etc. without need to re-use & cut and paste what you have pre-loaded due to ram limits. Etc.

 

[Bulletbrain]

Streaming tech in games is a feature for a long time now to feed assets into ram on demand. But it's slow and limited to HDD speed in the past gens.

Opening up the tap here means more performance and less restrictions for developers. More performance in any part of game design is beneficial.

Simple example for a streaming scenario, - traversing a building last gen you'd need to hold multiple adjacent rooms in ram because you couldn't load them fast enough as you as you went along. Now you could potentially fetch an entire room and it's assets fast enough not needing to have it pre-loaded. Not needing to pre-load frees up ram so each individual rooms can have unique furniture etc. without need to re-use & cut and paste what you have pre-loaded due to ram limits. Etc.

These are all potential valid applications, but what I meant by tangible is that I want to play/test a game where this is quantitatively and qualitatively demonstrable. For example by testing a PC game coded to take advantage of Directstorage API and fast SSDs in different scenarios. How will it actually look when you use a HDD? How will it look if installed in a machine not updated with Directstorage API? Will it run at all? What difference will faster vs. slower SSDs will make? What is the impact on performance in terms of raw FPS,/stability/stuttering/load times? To do all that we will have to wait ofc.

 

[theclaw135]

I'll believe it on the day PC can reliably enter and exit sleep mode faster than the Switch.

 

[existensmaximum]

I spent a year hearing about the mindblowing revolutionary wonders of SSD on console.
So far they have translated to: Faster loading.

Well, such improvements would likely come after the cross-gen development ends? It's still early into the next generation but you can see some of these "mind-blowing revolutionary wonders" already in Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, where the I/O sure is put to good use. beyond faster loading. Very, very fast asset streaming with very very high quality assets.

But I'm mostly expecting this kind of stuff on PS5 exclusives.

 

[clintar]

The sooner this comes, the faster we can move forward as a whole. The only question remains is will it be universally achievable to a high enough standard on bespoke pc hardware to make it a baseline target.

We'll be on PS7 and XBSXSX by then.

P.S. don't tell DonJuanSchlong about this.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So I/O throughput is great now to those guys shitting on PS5's SSD and I/O?

 

[clintar]

They are not even using this tech on the Series consoles yet so when they use it for PC it will work automatically with Xbox.

Please explain how.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I've never once said a bad thing about it. I've always looked forward to it. But no one has been able to tell me a game on PC that's suffered from not having this feature yet. C clintar wanna tell me a game perhaps?

 

[TrueLegend]

So I/O throughput is great now to those guys shitting on PS5's SSD and I/O?

Nobody is shitting at PS5's I/O. People are shitting at how some PS5 owners think it's some revolutionary new thing only available on PS5 meanwhile many dudes on PCs are thinking "Huh, I didn't know consoles took that long to load a game". It's only noticeable as a feature because PS4 and Xbox One loading times were really long. But once you go SSD it doesn't matter if it's loading in four seconds or ten-second because it's fast enough to be unnoticeable in everyday use and will provide new fundamental level design and load choices. DirectStorage is gonna improve upon it sure but it's not some big deal like the software-based ray tracing feature in Unreal Engine 5. Literally, the only game I have felt that can actually benefit from faster texture streaming is Jedi Fallen Order and even on the native PS5 code of the game, there are frametime spikes with new assets streaming in so the issue in that particular game is not particularly bound to I/O factor. In actual terms, all this will translate to higher draw distance, less LOD creation from the developer end, less pop-in, all of which was always improved on pc substantially over console versions of games so far, so it's a very incremental type update for PC users. All the BIGHYPE is about how developers now would not need to create a fake heavily doctored in-engine cutscene to hide the level loading as consoles are not holding back like earlier but that's the end of it.

 

[hoplie]

I've never once said a bad thing about it. I've always looked forward to it. But no one has been able to tell me a game on PC that's suffered from not having this feature yet. C clintar wanna tell me a game perhaps?

Of course no one can tell you a game because there is no game yet using this tech on pc, lol.
Maybe look at Ratchet and Clank.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Of course no one can tell you a game because there is no game yet using this tech on pc, lol.
Maybe look at Ratchet and Clank.

Look at unreal engine 5 or the computers that made R&C possible. You think they just ported the assets to the dev kit and created the game there? You have a lot to learn about game development buddy.

 

[Dr Bass]

Nobody is shitting at PS5's I/O. People are shitting at how some PS5 owners think it's some revolutionary new thing only available on PS5 meanwhile many dudes on PCs are thinking "Huh, I didn't know consoles took that long to load a game". It's only noticeable as a feature because PS4 and Xbox One loading times were really long. But once you go SSD it doesn't matter if it's loading in four seconds or ten-second because it's fast enough to be unnoticeable in everyday use and will provide new fundamental level design and load choices. DirectStorage is gonna improve upon it sure but it's not some big deal like the software-based ray tracing feature in Unreal Engine 5. Literally, the only game I have felt that can actually benefit from faster texture streaming is Jedi Fallen Order and even on the native PS5 code of the game, there are frametime spikes with new assets streaming in so the issue in that particular game is not particularly bound to I/O factor. In actual terms, all this will translate to higher draw distance, less LOD creation from the developer end, less pop-in, all of which was always improved on pc substantially over console versions of games so far, so it's a very incremental type update for PC users. All the BIGHYPE is about how developers now would not need to create a fake heavily doctored in-engine cutscene to hide the level loading as consoles are not holding back like earlier but that's the end of it.

You still don’t understand what’s going on with the PS5’s setup. It’s not just “loading a game fast”. At all. And for what it does it is kinda revolutionary, hence all the developer excitement.

I wonder how long this complete lack of understanding will persist?

 

[hoplie]

Look at unreal engine 5 or the computers that made R&C possible. You think they just ported the assets to the dev kit and created the game there? You have a lot to learn about game development buddy.

I recognize it’s senseless to discuss this topic with you so i‘ll stop here.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I recognize it’s senseless to discuss this topic with you so i‘ll stop here.

Any reason you wanna back out now? I don't get how you tag me in a post, yet retreat as soon as I bring the facts? Do you honestly think games are solely created on the dev kits, with absolutely no help from PC's? You ever heard of Z-Brush, Maya, Blender, etc? You didn't know games are created on pc, and debuged on the devkits? Don't run away now, I'm just getting started.


Who's alt account are you? Hmm?

 

[hoplie]

I back out now because you started attacking me personally and assuming things about me which you are just pulling out of your ass. Sorry, that’s not my way to discuss things. Have fun with your superior knowledge.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I back out now because you started attacking me personally and assuming things about me which you are just pulling out of your ass. Sorry, that’s not my way to discuss things. Have fun with your superior knowledge.

You called me out lol?

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

Oh cool so pc can then do what the PS5 does right now. How exciting.

Except PC has more powerful hardware. SSD in PS5 is only 5.5GB/s. how cute. PC can do 7.1GB/s and will likely go to 14.2GB/s next year.

that’s just the SSD. pc can have 8, 12, 16, 24 cores and run at ~5GHz. For RAM most people have 16GB which same as PS5 but of course the console only has about 13GB accessible and needs to share that between RAM + VRAM. Most people playing games on PC have a dedicated GPU so have anywhere between 6-24GB VRAM. my pc has 32GB RAM + 12GB VRAM. oh and PC RAM can run at 3000-4700MHz but will only get faster next year.

PS5 is already outdated compared to PC and it will only get worse

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I spent a year hearing about the mindblowing revolutionary wonders of SSD on console.
So far they have translated to: Faster loading.

Jesus Christ what a stupid post

- The generation has barely started
- Cross-gen game development is still a thing
- Developers are still learning to develop for these new technologies

 

[teezzy]

Oh cool so pc can then do what the PS5 does right now. How exciting.

Sony fans have had an SSD since November and wanna act tough about it now

God console warriors are retards

 

[TrueLegend]

You still don’t understand what’s going on with the PS5’s setup. It’s not just “loading a game fast”. At all. And for what it does it is kinda revolutionary, hence all the developer excitement.

I wonder how long this complete lack of understanding will persist?

and I think you have snorted a lot of crack or you are hardware newbie to think PS5s I/O is something drastically different and special compared to high-end pc ssds. If you think that's substantial and revolutionary compared to PC platform and not just PS4 platform I think seeing how a silicon wafer is produced in person will literally blow your mind.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Sony fans have had an SSD since November and wanna act tough about it now

God console warriors are retards

It's funny how some of them beat their chests so loud, and shit on everyone else. It's like they have to have first place in everything. No one can enjoy games, unless it's from Sony. There's no SSD faster, 10 TF > 35 TF because cache scrubbers, wifi 6 > Ethernet, UE5 can't run on PC, etc. I've heard it all from these warriors.


I'll buy someone gold if they can point me towards a PC, Nintendo, or Xbox thread which Sony fanboys didn't shit on it, or make the thread about them. Clock starts now.




Md Ray

 

[Redlight]

I'm exclusively a console gamer.

Any tech 'advantage' over PC gaming that a console may have at launch will be surpassed very quickly, and then the console will be left in the dust for most of it's life-cycle.

It's just a fact.

 

[Murdoch]

All these wonderful new techniques for 'asset streaming' yet the pop in on the latest Metro update on the Series X/S is some of the worst I've ever seen in gaming

 

[FranXico]

If the only noteworthy thing about PS5 fast I/O was the SSD, then why do you care about DirectStorage? You've been gaming on PC with an SSD already for years!

 

[Negotiator101]

Please explain how.

DirectX 12 Ultimate is going to accelerate the adoption of cutting edge graphics features in games because development platforms are not fragmented. With DirectX 12 Ultimate I know that I can adopt new graphics features immediately and that they will work in PC and Xbox games.​

Chris Larson - COO, Hi-Rez Studios and GM/EP of Rogue Company

Not my words obviously but a far more reliable source, I thought it was obvious with DirectX 12 Ultimate unifying PC and Xbox development platform.

 

[Negotiator101]

All these wonderful new techniques for 'asset streaming' yet the pop in on the latest Metro update on the Series X/S is some of the worst I've ever seen in gaming

They are not using these features in the update, this is for their next game as they update their engine.

 

[Md Ray]

Ben Archard: Well, the key word there is beneficial and I think it will be very much so. Faster read access doesn't just allow for faster loading times, but also faster asset streaming. So that not only seems to promise more content in the environment but potentially more varied content as large assets such as high resolution textures and geometry are able to be paged in and out more rapidly

DirectStorage API Will Be Very Beneficial to PC Gaming, Says Metro Developer 4A Games

We talked to 4A Games Senior Rendering Programmer Ben Archard about the arrival of the DirectStorage API on PC and what it means for games.

wccftech.com

Exactly what I've been saying since...forever. But some people including DonJuanSchlong want to argue that having "more memory" is the solution to this which is laughable.

DonJuanSchlong let me remind you that these two posts of mine regarding DirectStorage and RTX IO shut you up and you haven't responded to me since:

DonJuanSchlong

Here's another thing for you. The key to R&C's fast world switching is basically in bringing down load times dramatically from double digits to single digit.

Spider-Man which uses the same engine as R&C:

This is proof that R&C's world switching in 2 or so seconds would have taken almost 30 seconds on an HDD.

Now, I'd like you to show me a game on PC taking roughly 20-25 seconds with an HDD to load a save game and then taking 2 seconds when switched to an NVMe, in other words, I want you to show me an improvement of over -90% reduction in load time when switching from HDD to NVMe in a PC game.

If you can do that, and this is a challenge. If you can do that, then I'm wrong and it's proof that R&C's fast world switching can be done without RTX IO/DirectStorage, NVMe on PC.

I'll wait.

You stopped responding to me because you know I'm right. PC load time reductions from HDD to NVMe aren't there where consoles are at the moment, there's inefficiency in hardware utilization and consoles are far ahead, in comparison, especially PS5 (just look at Final Fantasy 7 comparison above).

Microsoft flat-out agrees that PCs aren't there yet and so does NVIDIA.

So, by disagreeing with me you're actually disagreeing with MS and NVIDIA and calling them wrong and you deem RTX IO and DirectStorage useless because...

"but..but...memory!!"

Now I'll let 4A Game's senior rendering programmer do the talking.

 

[Murdoch]

They are not using these features in the update, this is for their next game as they update their engine.

Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know. Criticism revoked.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Exactly what I've been saying since...forever. But some people including DonJuanSchlong want to argue that having "more memory" is the solution to this which is laughable.

DonJuanSchlong let me remind you that these two posts of mine regarding DirectStorage and RTX IO shut you up and you haven't responded to me since:



Now I'll let 4A Game's senior rendering programmer do the talking.

And I've asked you to show me one single game that can't run on PC, due to direct storage not being deployed yet. You haven't been able to do so. Don't get me wrong, I welcome the tech wholeheartedly, as it will be useful. But it's not like PC's are crippled because of its absence right now.

What's laughable is that you don't seem to understand how some of these things work in game development. It's not like Xbox and ps5 dev kits are running the tools that create the games. They are used to debug and see how the final product will run on production hardware. Once people start to realize the process games go through, it'll all start to make sense. You should read a thing or two.

 

[reksveks]

This thread is people talking past each other

 

[killatopak]

Except PC has more powerful hardware. SSD in PS5 is only 5.5GB/s. how cute. PC can do 7.1GB/s and will likely go to 14.2GB/s next year.

that’s just the SSD. pc can have 8, 12, 16, 24 cores and run at ~5GHz. For RAM most people have 16GB which same as PS5 but of course the console only has about 13GB accessible and needs to share that between RAM + VRAM. Most people playing games on PC have a dedicated GPU so have anywhere between 6-24GB VRAM. my pc has 32GB RAM + 12GB VRAM. oh and PC RAM can run at 3000-4700MHz but will only get faster next year.

PS5 is already outdated compared to PC and it will only get worse

*looks at my wallet*

I’ll take a PS5/XSX, thank you.