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[Heisenberg007]

Been saying this with some on here.

Interestingly, in the same thread, Calverz also voted for "Horizon Forbidden West looks last-gen, not current-gen."

Considering he is 100% okay and on-board with Starfield's 30 FPS, I wonder if he thinks Starfield looks current-gen and a generational leap over Horizon Forbdden West, which according to him looked last gen?

Thoughts, Calverz ?

 

[Madserb2023]

I heard 480p was a creative choice back in the day.

 

[Gudji]

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

 

[GHG]

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

 

[feynoob]

Calm down your tits everyone. It's Bethesda game for God sake.

 

[Calverz]

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

Where was I defending 30fps dipshit?

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Calverz]

Interestingly, in the same thread, Calverz also voted for "Horizon Forbidden West looks last-gen, not current-gen."

Considering he is 100% okay and on-board with Starfield's 30 FPS, I wonder if he thinks Starfield looks current-gen and a generational leap over Horizon Forbdden West, which according to him looked last gen?

Thoughts, Calverz ?

You and your alt account is obsessed. Show me defending starfield being 30fps? This is a thread discussing whether it's a creative decision or not to run at 30fps. I have already said il be playing it at 120fps on pc.

 

[bender]

You and your alt account is obsessed. Show me defending starfield being 30fps? This is a thread discussing whether it's a creative decision or not to run at 30fps. I have already said il be playing it at 120fps on pc.

 

[Bernardougf]

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

 

[Riky]

The Xbox series s/x can output at 60fps. The "technical limitations" you speak of are self imposed. Created by a creative decision.

Regardless, game looks amazing.

It does look amazing and it will be in the GOTY or even generation conversation with Zelda, gameplay matters.

 

[MMaRsu]

But it COULD. There's no technical reason it can't have a 60 fps OPTION. THAT'S MY POINT.

It could, but graphics sell consoles AND games and devs know this so they will pursue graphics in the end.

 

[RyanEvans21]

All the titles you linked are cross-gen though. It's easier to provide options for those because you already have 30FPS versions of those game on last gen and you're working with stronger hardware in current gen. Starfield is built for 30 FPS on current gen, which again, is a creative choice.

Never heard of Next Gen Upgrade? I Doubt you can run those games 4k/30 Same spec as (Xbox Series X & PS5).

 

[RyanEvans21]

So what? These are all cross gen PS4 based games bro.

With Next Gen Upgrade.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It does look amazing and it will be in the GOTY or even generation conversation with Zelda, gameplay matters.

Don't forget about Elden Ring.

 

[MMaRsu]

With Next Gen Upgrade.

"Next gen"

Stuff that pc's have had for at least five years. Vrr, extra bells and whistles.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Plus TOTK prelaunch didnt come with any sort of PR,they jusy announced "hello theres a zelda sequel" and then launched the game.

What!? Did I imagine the Nintendo directs?

 

[Phase]

It's obviously a bit of both. Without being limited by the console hardware they wouldn't have to make this decision. But since they are, they have.

 

[93xfan]

Game looks awesome!! Can't wait to play it on my Series X. If some of you want, I can drop in from time to time and give updates. I suspect my time will be very limited though.

 

[RyanEvans21]

Then you also have games like Jedi Survivor where they threw in a performance mode to appease the internet but it's shite.

We will not know the standard for the current gen until we drop cross-gen completely and only new-gen games are coming out universally.

It's game problem though. Same as most games port to PC like The Last of Us etc...

 

[RyanEvans21]

"Next gen"

Stuff that pc's have had for at least five years. Vrr, extra bells and whistles.

Like Ray Tracing etc? You cant run those on old console like PS4,Xbox One etc...

 

[MMaRsu]

Like Ray Tracing etc? You cant run those on old console like PS4,Xbox One etc...

The only game that does real raytraced lightning on consoles is Cyberpunk

And performance modes turn that off anyway, even for spidermans ray traced reflections

 

[Three]

You and your alt account is obsessed. Show me defending starfield being 30fps? This is a thread discussing whether it's a creative decision or not to run at 30fps. I have already said il be playing it at 120fps on pc.

Why are you destroying the creativity on a different platform?

Where was I defending 30fps dipshit?

If anybody searches this thread they'd see you've been jumping up and down this thread trying to convince everyone it's not a hardware limitation, if they made it 60fps what would happen to the game, and that the game is amazing. Not exactly critical of it like another set of games is it? What happened to 30fps being distinctly last gen? What happened to 30fps should be in the bin? Why weren't those good creative choices?

It doesn't take a genius to see that you're less critical especially when you post stuff like this golden nugget

Who are you to tell me what games are shitty or not? Redfall is my GOTY right now.

Defending a buggy ass broken game (and 30fps on console) but with Tom Morgan's GOTY you were there:

30fps game making number 1?

Nobody is dumb enough to be sitting there thinking "hmmm I wonder what the connection is?"

 

[RyanEvans21]

The only game that does real raytraced lightning on consoles is Cyberpunk

And performance modes turn that off anyway, even for spidermans ray traced reflections

Witcher 3 & GTA 5 also

That's why you have options! You Want 4k Graphics etc..... (Fidelity mode). You want Higher Frame rate (Performance mode).

 

[MMaRsu]

Witcher 3 & GTA 5 also

They dont have Raytraced lightning which is the most expensive

 

[Calverz]

Why are you destroying the creativity on a different platform?


If anybody searches this thread they'd see you've been jumping up and down this thread trying to convince everyone it's not a hardware limitation, if they made it 60fps what would happen to the game, and that the game is amazing. Not exactly critical of it like another set of games is it? What happened to 30fps being distinctly last gen? What happened to 30fps should be in the bin? Why weren't those good creative choices?

It doesn't take a genius to see that you're less critical especially when you post stuff like this golden nugget


Then Tom Morgan's GOTY you were there like:


Nobody is dumb enough to be sitting there thinking "hmmm I wonder what the connection is?"

If you honestly believe I think redfall is my goty, then you are hopeless.

I ask again, where am I defending starfield being 30fps? I am simply explaining what they meant, by it being a creative choice. Then you come in all guns blazing trying to turn it into a console war. "Us and them."You are obsessed.

 

[Three]

If you honestly believe I think redfall is my goty, then you are hopeless.

"My GOTY right now"

I ask again, where am I defending starfield being 30fps? I am simply explaining what they meant, by it being a creative choice. Then you come in all guns blazing trying to turn it into a console war. "Us and them."You are obsessed.

It's not hard to do a thread search by member. You've not been critical of the 30fps at all here, you've only tried to justify it. For this or redfall you've not been critical of the 30fps. Now compare that to the way you act for another set of games.

 

[Calverz]

"My GOTY right now"

It's not hard to do a thread search by member. You've not been critical of the 30fps at all here, you've only tried to justify it. For this or redfall you've not been critical of the 30fps. Now compare that to the way you act for another set of games.

You are such an idiot. I really hope you are joking. Redfall is not my goty. It's called taking the piss mate. You know, for a laugh.

So now you have changed from "defending" to "justifying". I can't take you seriously. I'm not justifying anything. I am merely explaining what they mean by saying it was a creative choice. I believe everything now should be 60fps as 30fps is horrible. But ultimately, it doesn't affect me as I have a shit hot pc.

Is english your first language? If not I could maybe better understand where you are coming from.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Not 30fps in these consoles to 120fps in CPU bound games. Gotham Knights and many other CPU bound games showed that.

What? I can barely comprehend what you wrote.

 

[Three]

You are such an idiot.

Last reply to this silly back and forth because it's clear you're getting more and more pissy.

I really hope you are joking. Redfall is not my goty. It's called taking the piss mate. You know, for a laugh.

Really great joke mate about it being your GOTY up until that point, and so blandly delivered. Top marks.

So now you have changed from "defending" to "justifying". I can't take you seriously. I'm not justifying anything. I am merely explaining what they mean by saying it was a creative choice. I believe everything now should be 60fps as 30fps is horrible. But ultimately, it doesn't affect me as I have a shit hot pc.

Justifying and defending are the same. Justifying something is a type of defence. That same justification you wouldn't/didn't do for HFW, Driveclub, Bloodborne with the way they looked. Talking about how they were last gen, shitty looking or unplayable because of 30fps.
You only kind of started shitting on 30fps in this thread when you were exposed to be shitting on it for other games. Not for the latest two 30fps games a certain someone released though. Never once complained about those.

Here are some examples of you trying to justify it

Starfield could have easily ran at 60fps on console. But in order to do that, they would have had to have stripped back features, textures etc to hit it. Therefore, a "CREATIVE DECISION" was taken to NOT do that and have it run smoothly at a locked 30fps.

The Xbox series s/x can output at 60fps. The "technical limitations" you speak of are self imposed. Created by a creative decision.
Regardless, game looks amazing.

The technical limitations are not self imposed, they are imposed by the hardware/tech limitations and dev capability. What you're doing is justifying though. Instead for certain other games you would have been talking about how 30fps is distinctly last gen and you can't believe that's what they went for and all they could achieve, or that the game can't even be a good GOTY game because it's 30fps, blah blah blah. Where did all that go?

Is english your first language? If not I could maybe better understand where you are coming from.

Yes, English is my first language and the language's name is also my nationality so you can continue pretending to be baffled.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

TotK should be 60FPS. just drop the resolution to 720p! What's that you say about physics and CPU?!?! Don't gaslight me.

If only Digital Foundry had my tech expertise…

#neogaf

This threads about Starfield, not TotK. If you must compare them though ...TotK is running on fucking Nintendo Switch which is 1/10th as powerful as Series X. Switch was never marketed as a premium, ultra fast gaming machine. You do realize Phil Spencer himself was claiming that SX would be able to do 60 fps going "up to" 120 hz. There are quotes of him promising 60 fps as standard when he was trying to hype up SX!

Is TotK running at an upscale 4K? No ..it's 900p maximum resolution so they don't have the headroom to work with anyway. Was the director of TotK on record saying that "totk can already run ABOVE 60 frames but for the sake of consistency we like to lock to 30 .."?

Will Starfield even have the complex physics systems that TotK has? Nope.

There are so many things wrong with your little comparison there.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The only game that does real raytraced lightning on consoles is Metro Exodus.

Ftfy.

 

[93xfan]

Game looks beyond awesome.

I'm loving their creative vision.

My 2 GOTYs are likely 30FPS and it doesn't both me at all (provided it's stable by release).

 

[93xfan]

This threads about Starfield, not TotK. If you must compare them though ...TotK is running on fucking Nintendo Switch which is 1/10th as powerful as Series X. Switch was never marketed as a premium, ultra fast gaming machine. You do realize Phil Spencer himself was claiming that SX would be able to do 60 fps going "up to" 120 hz. There are quotes of him promising 60 fps as standard when he was trying to hype up SX!

Yeah, most games are.

Did you honestly not think that there would be some 30FPS games after the UE5 Lumen/Nanite 1440p 30FPS presentation on PS5?

Did you think Phil was promising Xbox wouldn't have those kind of games?

Is TotK running at an upscale 4K? No ..it's 900p maximum resolution so they don't have the headroom to work with anyway. Was the director of TotK on record saying that "totk can already run ABOVE 60 frames but for the sake of consistency we like to lock to 30 .."?

Who cares who said what. We know this game we wouldn't hit 60 or close to it much of the time.

Will Starfield even have the complex physics systems that TotK has? Nope.

Does TotK have as many NPCs with complex behavior, and larger and more complex cities than ever before in a Bethesda game, and giant creatures, and no loading when entering cities, and a lighting model for both the planet you're on and for the other planets and moons that move and rotate through space, etc.?

Seems you forget each game has its own complexities.

There are so many things wrong with your little comparison there.

I'll wait until somebody with knowledge disproves the digital foundry analysis of it being CPU bound and thus a design decision.

 

[RoboFu]

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

They could have sacrificed their " vision " to make it 60 fps, or they could come closer by making it 30 fps.

Is that worth all this ? Lol

 

[Pelta88]

Starfield will support native 4K and 60fps after all, just not on Xbox

Starfield will support native 4K resolution and 60fps after all, just not on Xbox consoles.

www.gamingbible.com

 

[bender]

Redfall is not my goty.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I agree. No arguments there. But that's how every developer does it. And to account for that, they create 2 modes:

1. A 30 FPS mode, where they make the game look like they wanted to, at increased visual fidelity.
2. A 60 FPS mode, where they compromise the graphics in order to give players option to play at higher frames if they choose to.

What's misleading about this statement by Xbox is the fact that the existence of a 60 FPS mode does not compromise the look and fidelity of the game in 30 FPS mode.

I'm sure this has been mentioned 436 times already, but your statement is only true if all they have to cut is graphical features. If the frame rate inconsistency comes from allowing a certain amount of physical interactions or ships on screen at the same time, then cutting graphical embellishments may not do the trick (just examples). In this case you are messing with game design.

Your assumptions of what sacrifices need to be made in order to have a consistent performance mode are ill informed, due to the fact that none of us have played nor worked on this game. There is no reason to act like all they would have to do is pull back draw distance and drop resolution because you, nor I, have any idea if that's the limiting factor.

 

[TheGrat1]

Bullshit. What I'm not willing to accept is a lack of ambition. It's sad, although perhaps somewhat understandable, to watch hugely talented people making the same damn game over and over, taking minimal risks, doing what they already know how to do.

This seems to be the most ambition I've yet seen this gen. If that turns out to be true, I intend to cut these guys plenty of slack.

avin

You say this and yet Todd Howard himself has called Starfield "Skyrim in space."

Not sure what your post has to do with SF not having 60 fps mode, which is what I meant by expecting, accepting and getting less. I am sure something like Gran Turismo or Forza Motorsport could be even more ambitious in certain areas if the devs targeted 30 fps only but they know there will be a significant backlash from their prospective consumers. Bethesda knows that will not happen with their games, the proof is in this thread. Bethesda does not have to worry about living up to those expectations.

Tell me: Wouldn't finding a way to get a stable 60 fps on Series X at launch show a certain level of ambition? At least on the technical side?

 

[genesisblock]

Then you also have games like Jedi Survivor where they threw in a performance mode to appease the internet but it's shite.

We will not know the standard for the current gen until we drop cross-gen completely and only new-gen games are coming out universally.

Game performance was shit, even on PC mate.

 

[Edgelord79]

It's a creative way of saying the hardware can't run it at 60 fps or that the developers haven't gotten it to yet.

Mental gymnastics is mind boggling.

 

[Heisenberg007]

You and your alt account is obsessed. Show me defending starfield being 30fps? This is a thread discussing whether it's a creative decision or not to run at 30fps. I have already said il be playing it at 120fps on pc.

Wait, which one is my alt account?

Also, you didn't answer my question. I'm curious to know if you think Starfield is a generational leap over Horizon Forbidden West, which is why it's okay to have a 30 FPS mode?

 

[Edgelord79]

What happened to options?
Why not include 40fps 1440 and 60fps 1080 or some in between solution.

Would destroy their artistic integrity. Can't have that.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Wait, which one is my alt account?

Also, you didn't answer my question. I'm curious to know if you think Starfield is a generational leap over Horizon Forbidden West, which is why it's okay to have a 30 FPS mode?

I really don't understand the point of this comparison. HFW for sure is the better looking game, but these games are doing two totally different things.

 

[01011001]

Wait, which one is my alt account?

Also, you didn't answer my question. I'm curious to know if you think Starfield is a generational leap over Horizon Forbidden West, which is why it's okay to have a 30 FPS mode?

ok, I'm not defending the 30fps cap, and I'm on record shitting on Bethesda for it... but that's a bad comparison. Horizon has basically no gameplay systems that aren't lifted from mid generation Xbox 360 games by Ubisoft.
it's an extremely simple game compared to even old Bethesda games like Skyrim.

 

[Calverz]

Last reply to this silly back and forth because it's clear you're getting more and more pissy.

Really great joke mate about it being your GOTY up until that point, and so blandly delivered. Top marks.

Justifying and defending are the same. Justifying something is a type of defence. That same justification you wouldn't/didn't do for HFW, Driveclub, Bloodborne with the way they looked. Talking about how they were last gen, shitty looking or unplayable because of 30fps.
You only kind of started shitting on 30fps in this thread when you were exposed to be shitting on it for other games. Not for the latest two 30fps games a certain someone released though. Never once complained about those.

Here are some examples of you trying to justify it


The technical limitations are not self imposed, they are imposed by the hardware/tech limitations and dev capability. What you're doing is justifying though. Instead for certain other games you would have been talking about how 30fps is distinctly last gen and you can't believe that's what they went for and all they could achieve, or that the game can't even be a good GOTY game because it's 30fps, blah blah blah. Where did all that go?


Yes, English is my first language and the language's name is also my nationality so you can continue pretending to be baffled.

You took my redfall comment completely out of context. You were probably frothing at the mouth when you found it and didn't even look to see what thread I put it in.

Again you have failed to do what I have asked. You obviously can handle my comments for possibly two reasons.

1. You are so hurt starfield is not coming to your beloved ps5 (probably this as you have shown multiple times before your fanboyism) so you are lashing out at me.

2. That I am correct in explaining how it was a creative choice.

We could all did out pst comments and post them without context to try and twist opinion of others. I'm just not as sad as you to do that.

 

[Calverz]

Wait, which one is my alt account?

Also, you didn't answer my question. I'm curious to know if you think Starfield is a generational leap over Horizon Forbidden West, which is why it's okay to have a 30 FPS mode?

I couldn't care less about horizon. I am explaining that the decision to run at 30fps was a creative choice. Something you obviosuly can't accept for whatever reason.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I couldn't care less about horizon. I am explaining that the decision to run at 30fps was a creative choice. Something you obviosuly can't accept for whatever reason.

Bro, can you answer a simple question?

 

[Heisenberg007]

ok, I'm not defending the 30fps cap, and I'm on record shitting on Bethesda for it... but that's a bad comparison. Horizon has basically no gameplay systems that aren't lifted from mid generation Xbox 360 games by Ubisoft.
it's an extremely simple game compared to even old Bethesda games like Skyrim.

Not necessarily true because every game is different and does stuff differently. For example, one can argue that Horizon has flying mounts, which require faster calculations and is something that Starfield doesn't do. Similarly, one can argue that Horizon has giant machines with destructable components that you can collect, use, and craft. The machine's attacks are also updated in real time based on the components you have taken off. That's a lot of processing. Starfield doesn't have that.

But to be clear, these are all stupid arguments.

Because as I said, no two games are similar. And one cannot argue that a game is less special than others. That's why I won't say that Starfield is a simple/less special game compared to Horizon, and vice versa.

The reason I posted this is because of the obvious fanboy-ish hypocrisy. The guy was criticizing why Sony even showed the Horizon gameplay footage in 30 FPS and why 30 FPS is so last-gen that it needed to be in the bin. And 30 FPS latency is so bad that it's not worth the time.

It wasn't Sony's "creative choice" to show the game at 30 FPS.

But now the arguments and narrative are completely shifted because it's a company that's his favorite.

 

[Calverz]

Bro, can you answer a simple question?

Why would I compare starfield to horizon? I refer you to my original post in this thread:

Starfield could have easily ran at 60fps on console. But in order to do that, they would have had to have stripped back features, textures etc to hit it. Therefore, a "CREATIVE DECISION" was taken to NOT do that and have it run smoothly at a locked 30fps.

Stop turning it into console warz