Team Andromeda
Member
Ok JIMAre you doing this on purpose now?You've completely missed my point 3 times in a row. I give up.
DF Direct Weekly #180: The PS5 Pro Breakdown: GT7, TLOUp2, Ratchet, Horizon, Alan Wake 2 + More!
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
Those who wish to continue discussing PC in relation to PS5 Pro, please visit this thread:
www.neogaf.com
[DF] PS5 v PC value comparisons less important than a bleak future for console pricing
Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-ps5-pro-vs-pc-value-comparisons-are-hard-to-take-seriously-but-the-future-of-console-pricing-is-another-matter Firstly, are the costs of console gaming rising so much that a gaming PC is no longer such an expensive alternative? That's a...
Look at this. this alone is worth the upgrade.
This is the just the first iteration from PSSR. I expected further improvement when the Pro launch. Can't imagine how this look like when PS6 launch in 4 years.
on the console space, do you think Sony will speed ahead of MS like what nvidia did to AMD? How MS respond to this is crucial though. They can't sit and wait.
This is the just the first iteration from PSSR. I expected further improvement when the Pro launch. Can't imagine how this look like when PS6 launch in 4 years.
on the console space, do you think Sony will speed ahead of MS like what nvidia did to AMD? How MS respond to this is crucial though. They can't sit and wait.
Aaaahhh, so you're a troll. Gotcha. Wish I'd known earlier before trying to engage. Lesson learned.
Bojji
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The one on the right is 60fps the one on the left is 30fps.PSSR still loses to native 4K on PS5 fidelity mode. Still, shit ton better than FSR3.1
That makes it a bigger win, especially for the the debut of this tech that will refine over time.
Bojji
Member
I heard that PSSR produces better picture than native 4k from some people, that's clearly not the case.
Quality mode can be played in 40fps so there is that (but it's not native all the time for sure).
Topher
Identifies as young
Wasn't that said by DF in the video?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yea, PSSR is still deficient hence there are more room for improvement. In motion, it destroyed FRS 3.1 and this is more important at the moment. The other area nees time.PSSR still loses to native 4K on PS5 fidelity mode. Still, shit ton better than FSR3.1
In TLOU. I think it did better than Native in some areas. I believe someone post the whole gif about it.
I believe this is the one. Tlou 30 fidelity is native 4k correct?I can't really say I'm surprised so far by the Part II analysis.. a handful of frames compared and, while we got to know PSSR tends to blur a bit blades of glass compared to Native, which is certainly interesting and something I hadn't noticed, not a single mention of the extremely noticeable improved IQ on Pro over PS5 Fidelity.
I believe these were posted enough times already, just one more as complementary to what DF discovered shouldn't hurt.
Apparently differences so discernible in the IGN high-bitrate encode became too hard to notice in their ProRes file. Or not worthy of a single mention.. but again I won't pretend to be surprised.
On to the rest of the video, but I'll also say immediately John absence feel weird.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
To be fair, Rift Apart uses IGTI on PS5, not FSR lol. Rift Apart has one of the worst implementations of FSR. You're better off with TAA or IGTI on non-NVIDIA hardware.
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sachos
Member
And remember, this is PSSR vs FSR 3.1, most games on console are using FSR2, the difference with those will be huge.
Bojji
Member
Yep, that's the one. From DF video we know PSSR produces some ghosting but clearly overall picture is very good - better than Ratchet. So the question is:
1. Does PSSR quality differ that much between games (it probably can), but Ratchet uses higher base resolution for reconstruction than TLoU2 so in theory it should offset that
2. Does TAA quality differ? We can be sure that it does, some games have mid IQ even at native 4K
Without definitive answer we can 100% be sure that PSSR will produce different quality of results in different games vs. native 4k (and that's the same for all other upscalers).
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
FSR3 is just FSR2 with frame-gen.
Topher
Identifies as young
Twice the number of shitty frames as FSR2!
Bojji
Member
But 3.1 improves quality vs. 2.2.
Skifi28
Member
To my understanding and rather confusingly, the latest version of FSR (3.1) seems to include both types under a single name. If we want to differentiate them, I propose calling them the "ugly" one and the "laggy" one.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Does it? I'm not the most well versed person but most general google searches seem to have people saying that in terms of scaling it's no better than FSR 2.2, and frame-gen is the notable new thing.
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Throttle
Member
The Pro can't even render eyebrowsHe pixel counted from this image
Topher
Identifies as young
PaintTinJr
Member
Why would you compare those two images - when the size/distance of background objects is noticeably different and the foreground objects and the most obvious the character are differently placed too because the frustum configuration of near/far planes, FOV and camera location are all different despite being presented as equal.PSSR still loses to native 4K on PS5 fidelity mode. Still, shit ton better than FSR3.1
Any of those differences will throw up far bigger causes of image precision difference than comparing Fidelity vs PSSR. But if anything the picture on the right looks better with its bigger FOV and bigger draw distance(distance between Frustum Planes) and superior depth of field,
sachos
Member
Regarding TLoU2 Native vs PSSR i dont understand why they did not stop and show the differences in texture claritiy in those rocks, or the distant leaves or the red car top right. Its all so much clearer than the native 4K. I think they undersold it in that section."Example of native vs reconstructed and its its, its not bad, its pretty good"
Regarding R&C PSSR vs Fidelity, yes the edges in
Bojji
example are more aliased using PSSR but look at the crowd in motion, its so much better in PSSR imo. Or the leaves or the fence, to me it looks clearer in PSSR vs Native. I dont understand why they dont mention that either.
Regarding R&C PSSR vs Fidelity, yes the edges in
Bojji
example are more aliased using PSSR but look at the crowd in motion, its so much better in PSSR imo. Or the leaves or the fence, to me it looks clearer in PSSR vs Native. I dont understand why they dont mention that either.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Regarding TLoU2 Native vs PSSR i dont understand why they did not stop and show the differences in texture claritiy in those rocks, or the distant leaves or the red car top right. Its all so much clearer than the native 4K. I think they undersold it in that section."Example of native vs reconstructed and its its, its not bad, its pretty good"
Regarding R&C PSSR vs Fidelity, yes the edges in
Because they're eXpErTs.
Of omission.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
Regarding TLoU2 Native vs PSSR i dont understand why they did not stop and show the differences in texture claritiy in those rocks, or the distant leaves or the red car top right. Its all so much clearer than the native 4K. I think they undersold it in that section."Example of native vs reconstructed and its its, its not bad, its pretty good"
Regarding R&C PSSR vs Fidelity, yes the edges in
Yup I looked at both sections at .25x speed on YouTube lol and it's a clear difference in both games you mentioned plus to my surprise in R&C PSSR is close to DLSS but not quite there mainly because of the distant background clarity other than that they're really close in clarity with PSSR exhibiting slightly less ghosting.
owandeseis
Member
Glad we can now all agree how trash FSR is, always found the console vs 2070s+ comparisons kinda absurd since even if the settings are more or less the same, the image quality could be so different. Had to try Starfield with FSR and i never needed a mod so hard as the DLSS mod.
PSSR is damn solid, if AMD keeps using the same old FSR in their next gen cards then they deserve to go bankrupt
PSSR is damn solid, if AMD keeps using the same old FSR in their next gen cards then they deserve to go bankrupt
hinch7
Member
Whole image on PSSR looks a little oversharpened. Perhaps dialing that down a bit may help.
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Regarding TLoU2 Native vs PSSR i dont understand why they did not stop and show the differences in texture claritiy in those rocks, or the distant leaves or the red car top right. Its all so much clearer than the native 4K. I think they undersold it in that section."Example of native vs reconstructed and its its, its not bad, its pretty good"
Regarding R&C PSSR vs Fidelity, yes the edges in
Yes, on Ratchet, the pro has more clarity than the fidelity. The crowds on fidelity alway exibit something similar to FRS but way less. Also, it seems the Pro image is abit zoom in more than the fidelity so thus might have show edge visibility more than usuall?
I think the perspective Alex show vs pc is almost the same but on the Pro vs fidelity, Oliver does not. More zoom in on the Pro.
Edit. If people want to see what I am talking about. Watch it on your 4k TV. On small screen it less visble especially smart phone, but on a 77 in 4k TV, it's more pronounce.
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Tqaulity
Member
First officially announced third party PS5 Pro enhanced game:
www.333-studios.com
Retrieval Official Enhanced version for the PS5 Pro
We are thrilled to announce that Retrieval will receive an enhanced version specifically for the upcoming PS5 Pro, bringing improved graphics and performance to take the game experience to a new level.What’s New with the PS5 Pro Version?While Retrieval will look stunning on the PS5, the PS5 Pro...
www.333-studios.com
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PaintTinJr
Member
It isn't deficient at all, just being poorly analysed.
Compared with native fidelity pixels that are probably 1/20th of the way into the frustum with PSSR pixels 3/20 ths into the frustum means that PSSR is doing amazing to offer more detail at that position and only marginally more aliasing.
Side by side screens, PSSR will look far superior in that comparison because of the added draw distance and FOV with all the immediate foreground pixels much cleaner than the PS5 ones that are in that PS5 shot, but cropped below the character for the Pro shot.
Zathalus
Member
Is that really the best comparison shot they could do?First officially announced third party PS5 Pro enhanced game:
Retrieval Official Enhanced version for the PS5 Pro
We are thrilled to announce that Retrieval will receive an enhanced version specifically for the upcoming PS5 Pro, bringing improved graphics and performance to take the game experience to a new level.What’s New with the PS5 Pro Version?While Retrieval will look stunning on the PS5, the PS5 Pro...
Codeblew
Member
I see better lighting but I don't like the blurry waves in the foreground on the PSSR version.
Radical_3d
Member
Sony games are awful examples since they all have good IQ, but everywhere else is FSR land. Waiting on SM2 comparisons (it also doesn't use FSR iirc) to jump the gun.
Of course the first example is a dark as the armpit of a cricket game.First officially announced third party PS5 Pro enhanced game:
Retrieval Official Enhanced version for the PS5 Pro
We are thrilled to announce that Retrieval will receive an enhanced version specifically for the upcoming PS5 Pro, bringing improved graphics and performance to take the game experience to a new level.What’s New with the PS5 Pro Version?While Retrieval will look stunning on the PS5, the PS5 Pro...
I see what you talking about in the section pro vs fidelity and yes, the pro does provide better image clarity than fidelity but I think overall PSSR still deficient when compare to the DLSS.
Alex comparison vs pc does not exibit what you talk about and I think it's fair comparison.
Tqaulity
Member
Wait, can someone explain to me what the hell Sony is doing to TLOU PT2 Remastered on the Pro?? TLOU PT2 already ran at native 4K/40-50fps on the base PS5 in fidelity mode and 1440p/80-100fps in Performance mode. This should be one of the easiest PS5 PRO upgrades ever since it really doesn't even need PSSR. The raw 45% rendering increase should be enough to simply take Fidelity to a locked native 4K/60fps. If they wanted to do a perf mode, they could use PSSR there to take the base performance mode up to 120fps with better IQ.
Yet, why are we seeing a 60fps perf mode on the Pro that looks worst than Fidelity in some aspects when it should match fidelity if it's only 60fps? All Sony had to do is say TLOU PT2 now running at a full native 4K and 60fps. The end
Yet, why are we seeing a 60fps perf mode on the Pro that looks worst than Fidelity in some aspects when it should match fidelity if it's only 60fps? All Sony had to do is say TLOU PT2 now running at a full native 4K and 60fps. The end
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
These metrics are way off. It runs at around 30-35fps in Fidelity Mode and 60-80fps in Performance mode.
Edit: Never mind. Thought you meant Part I. I thought part II was 4K60 on PS5? Isn't it just a resolution bump over the PS4 version?
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sachos
Member
It seems to me that is slightly different camera angle or FOV (can you even change FOV in Ratchet? i dont remember). I dont think he would mess up something as basic as a zoom when editing the video.
FOV maybe? But most objects are closer to the screen on the Pro than the base ps5.
Take a look at Alex ratchet comparison. He got almost the same perspective.
Edit: just clarify on the Alex part. What I mean is Alex line up the images between pc and the pro correctly unlike oliver.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Wait, can someone explain to me what the hell Sony is doing to TLOU PT2 Remastered on the Pro?? TLOU PT2 already ran at native 4K/40-50fps on the base PS5 in fidelity mode and 1440p/80-100fps in Performance mode. This should be one of the easiest PS5 PRO upgrades ever since it really doesn't even need PSSR. The raw 45% rendering increase should be enough to simply take Fidelity to a locked native 4K/60fps. If they wanted to do a perf mode, they could use PSSR there to take the base performance mode up to 120fps with better IQ.
Yet, why are we seeing a 60fps perf mode on the Pro that looks worst than Fidelity in some aspects when it should match fidelity if it's only 60fps? All Sony had to do is say TLOU PT2 now running at a full native 4K and 60fps. The end
Keep in mind in this specific section, Cerny was talking about the synergistic impact of the Big 3 when discussing TLOU alongside Ratchet and SM2. I suspect TLOU now has an RT component to be revealed later.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Would be incredibly stupid not to reveal it right away. Either way it's gonna piss me off. If they don't have it, I'll be mad. If they have it, I'll be mad because they were morons for not showing it at the reveal.
Crispy Gamer
Member
I wonder why they didn't go over Spider-Man 2 the reflections looked excellent
PaintTinJr
Member
PSSR is doing an amazing job to provide that level of comparative detail to fidelity mode at such a huge precision disadvantage in terms of being so much further in the foreground - and the increased FOV and draw distance - on the Pro than on the PS5.
The PC version might be able to match a portion of that disadvantage with an increase in FOV, but the draw distance and the position of the frustum near/far planes is fixed relatively by the programmer to maintain character scales, so if DLSS is only slightly better for aliasing with an inferior render like PS5 fidelity, then PSSR is clearly better, because if for numbers sake we guesstimate and say the character in the foreground on PS5 and PC versions have a perspective projected zbuffer depth value in the range of 0.2-0.3, then comparatively by projection the Pro value for the same character in the mid foreground will have a value of something like 0.7-0.8 which impacts PSSR aliasing negatively because the objects are minified in relative terms with more fragments per pixel making the PSSR upscaler's job harder all round.
Topher
Identifies as young
I really think PSSR isn't quite ready yet and that's why they showed so little. Wonder if it might be a few months after launch that it gets to where it needs to be.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah I walk through the city would've done wonders by showing off the increased RT reflections
ChiefDada
Gold Member
PaintTinJr
Member
They aren't closer, the image has been cropped so that the Pro's mid foreground is displayed as a foreground which negatively impacts the perception of PSSR and the higher detail levels the actual foreground would be showing,
As I said in my previous post, the near/far planes and draw distance appear changed on the Pro and can't be changed on the PC to actually match, it would require the pro image cropped again but different vs PC
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sachos
Member
Another way to look at it is that PSSR is clearly increasing quality over the already good IQ of Sony games. Glass half full and all.
Topher
Identifies as young
I personally thought it had the best uplift in IQ.
Yeah, I agree. I'm not saying what they showed didn't look great. It did. Just didn't show a lot is all.
