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[SkyHighTrees]

I am PS fan but PaintTin is having a 'mare.

I know DF is biased but PSSR is clearly worse, but pretty close for a first outing.

Its no matter there. Its alright. Its nice


Ill be getting that Pro, you cant say nothin to me... AI upscaling comparable to DLSS?

 

[Radical_3d]

How is it outrageous to pay 200$ more for an upgrade but everybody here is chill to pay 300$ more over the 200$ for a DIY PC that is a nightmare to build and configure?

 

[omegasc]

No, that build is ridiculous.

I put something together here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/pd9vHG

That is using Zen 4 allowing for upgrades, but you can drop that to Zen 3 if you want to save money. This isn't meant to replace the Pro or PS5, its just showing that you can build a PC for around $1000 that can play Cyberpunk with the older RT (not PT) effects.

Its obviously not going to be as good as a PS5 in the living room environment.

Also needs to be considered:
- Windows license
- Dualsense/Xbox controller
- HDMI 2.1/DP cable

Just to make it clear: it's not up to me to judge anyone's purchase decisions, or justify mine. Do what you think is best with your money. I mean to make the comparisons more accurate, as I keep seeing people forget to add the controller cost, and rage about the stand that is optional and half the price of the Dualsense (not talking about you on this last sentence, Zathalus)

 

[Zathalus]

How is it outrageous to pay 200$ more for an upgrade but everybody here is chill to pay 300$ more over the 200$ for a DIY PC that is a nightmare to build and configure?

Nobody is claiming that you should buy the PC to replace the PS5. Someone asked is it possible to do X for $1000, which it is.

As for being a nightmare to build and configure? Come now, no need for hyperbole.

 

[Gaiff]

And PaintTinJr Alex did answer your post because the question was asked on beyond3d a few days ago.

I really dislike that this video is being talked about before release, but this post (wherever it is from) is full of it. PSSR was easy to count which is why we stated that multiple times, which means its reconstruction is failing more readily.

But at this point, if you take issue with Alex and his methodology, it'd best you go nip at the bud. The guy is a regular on beyond3d, not like he's hard to find. If you are correct and he's completely wrong as you are saying, then no doubt the folks over there will back you and not him. You'd best be served to go there and address his points directly rather than argue on Gaf about them.

 

[Bojji]

How is it outrageous to pay 200$ more for an upgrade but everybody here is chill to pay 300$ more over the 200$ for a DIY PC that is a nightmare to build and configure?

If you had PS5 with the disc drive (like most PS5 owners) PS5 pro is not really clear cut upgrade without expensive add on that is hard to find right now. So that 200$ number is not true at all.

 

[winjer]

Definitely doable but you'll be choosing from the cheapest parts available. Here is one I through together picking the absolute cheapest part for each category. Obviously, that is not the proper way to build a PC. Buy shitty parts and you'll build a shitty PC, but this illustrates it CAN be done for around $1000, with no thought put towards quality/reliability.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/G89vHG

Folks will debate leaving out the OS, but fact of the matter is Windows is fully functional without buying a license. The MB is cheapest option I found with wifi built in.

This is more powerful than the PS5 Pro, obviously, with the upgraded CPU. The 3700x is the same price as the 5800x so doesn't make sense to go with the older CPU.

I still maintain that ultimately this doesn't make any difference. A PC does not replace the console in a living room environment. And console gamers typically do not want to build a PC. We are truly talking about different segments of the market here.

I changed a few things on your build.
For one, I picked a 5600. Most games don't gain much from 8 cores. But a 5600 is close to 50$ cheaper. And it can be overclocked to match the 5800X, because it's unlocked.
It might have 1C2T less than the PS5 CPU, but it has much greater IPC.
I also switched the PSU for something less likely to burn down the house.
I was also of the mind to change the motherboard to an MSI B550M PRO-VDH. It's not a huge upgrade, in price or quality. But something to consider.
That memory is also very bad. So I would recommend something better. Zen3 loves good memory and that one will definitely bottleneck the CPU.

 

[Gaiff]

I changed a few things on your build.
For one, I picked a 5600. Most games don't gain much from 8 cores. But a 5600 is close to 50$ cheaper. And it can be overclocked to match the 5800X, because it's unlocked.
It might have 1C2T less than the PS5 CPU, but it has much greater IPC.
I also switched the PSU for something less likely to burn down the house.
I was also of the mind to change the motherboard to an MSI B550M PRO-VDH. It's not a huge upgrade, in price or quality. But something to consider.

Please, don't partake. Can't we just let these PS5 Pro builds talks die?

 

[Senua]

How is it outrageous to pay 200$ more for an upgrade but everybody here is chill to pay 300$ more over the 200$ for a DIY PC that is a nightmare to build and configure?

Dude it's electrical Lego, they come with guides for noobs too. Not a lot of people can be bothered with the idea of building a machine, but it's not difficult at all

 

[Gaiff]

How is it outrageous to pay 200$ more for an upgrade but everybody here is chill to pay 300$ more over the 200$ for a DIY PC that is a nightmare to build and configure?

Have you ever built a PC? Let me tell you this, unwrapping the gear from the packages is one of the most satisfying experiences ever. I'll never tire of ripping the plastic bag to see my shiny brand new motherboard or graphics card. It's quite the experience.

I'd build PCs for a living if the pay wasn't shit lol.

 

[Radical_3d]

As for being a nightmare to build and configure? Come now, no need for hyperbole.

It's a certified pain in the ass and prebuilt PC, that is what you should compare a finished product to, are crazy expensive.

If you had PS5 with the disc drive (like most PS5 owners) PS5 pro is not really clear cut upgrade without expensive add on that is hard to find right now. So that 200$ number is not true at all.

True, but still if 300$ more is unacceptable why is it 500$ ok? Isn't the point of complaining about the price to pay less?

Have you ever built a PC? Let me tell you this, unwrapping the gear from the packages is one of the most satisfying experiences ever. I'll never tire of ripping the plastic bag to see my shiny brand new motherboard or graphics card. It's quite the experience.

I'd build PCs for a living if the pay wasn't shit lol.

 

[Senua]

Curious where you're getting all the information on how it's working since there are no papers or anything about PSSR that says this online.

He pixel counted from this image

 

[Gaiff]

It's a certified pain in the ass and prebuilt PC, that is what you should compare a finished product to, are crazy expensive.

True, but still if 300$ more is unacceptable why is it 500$ ok? Isn't the point of complaining about the price to pay less?

What can I say? I love building PCs It's incredibly fun to me.

 

[Topher]

It's a certified pain in the ass and prebuilt PC, that is what you should compare a finished product to, are crazy expensive.

True, but still if 300$ more is unacceptable why is it 500$ ok? Isn't the point of complaining about the price to pay less?

Good point. If we are going to compare plug and play products, prebuilt PC is required.

 

[Dunker99]

Oh joy. More PC talk in a PS5Pro thread

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Definitely doable but you'll be choosing from the cheapest parts available. Here is one I through together picking the absolute cheapest part for each category. Obviously, that is not the proper way to build a PC. Buy shitty parts and you'll build a shitty PC, but this illustrates it CAN be done for around $1000, with no thought put towards quality/reliability.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/G89vHG

Folks will debate leaving out the OS, but fact of the matter is Windows is fully functional without buying a license. The MB is cheapest option I found with wifi built in.

This is more powerful than the PS5 Pro, obviously, with the upgraded CPU. The 3700x is the same price as the 5800x so doesn't make sense to go with the older CPU.

I still maintain that ultimately this doesn't make any difference. A PC does not replace the console in a living room environment. And console gamers typically do not want to build a PC. We are truly talking about different segments of the market here.

I have used my son a lot as an example but he works on his PC all day for work and have told him before how easy building a PC is and even that I would help him but he has zero interest of coming home from a day of being on a PC to then game on a PC

He wants to pick up the controller off his charging dock and play

If something goes wrong with his Xbox he gets another, he does not want to find out if its a stick of RAM or a dying GPU

 

[Bojji]

He pixel counted from this image

Way more round pixels on pro, tesselation to the max and woke setting on ultra. Clearly 8k internal res.

Oh joy. More PC talk in a PS5Pro thread

You know that video this thread is based about is full of PC talk?

 

[Skifi28]

I have used my son a lot as an example but he works on his PC all day for work and have told him before how easy building a PC is and even that I would help him but he has zero interest of coming home from a day of being on a PC to then game on a PC

He wants to pick up the controller off his charging dock and play

If something goes wrong with his Xbox he gets another, he does not want to find out if its a stick of RAM or a dying GPU

As a former hardcore PC builder/gamer, I can relate more and more as the years pass.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

At this point, isn't the Asus ROG ally x better than the ps5 pro?

 

[Radical_3d]

I have used my son a lot as an example but he works on his PC all day for work and have told him before how easy building a PC is and even that I would help him but he has zero interest of coming home from a day of being on a PC to then game on a PC

He wants to pick up the controller off his charging dock and play

If something goes wrong with his Xbox he gets another, he does not want to find out if its a stick of RAM or a dying GPU

THIIIIIIIIS.

I have to deal with Windows and a lot of crappy business programs for a living. The last thing I want is to hear that booting system again. Except if I want some Civ action.

 

[Orpheus]

Let's stop the PC vs Pro warring in this thread please. PC being mentioned in the video is not license for this thread to disintegrate into endless, futile comparisons. The focus of the video is PS5 Pro so let's keep that the focus here.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah, thats the big disappointment for me. It already is breaking the promise of Fidelity mode at 60. TLoU2 is doing it the right way. Lets hope the other first party studios can get it working better for launch.

That was one I found strange too, and the even stranger way they went about doing it. They are using performance RT settings for everything except the base rez, for that they are using the fidelity + (40fps) resolution. Rendering internally at 17XXp or so.

Why didn't they just keep the fidelity settings and drop the internal rez to 1440p, then use PSSR to get that to 4K. I am sure they end up with something that looks very close to the IQ of fidelity mode but running at 60fps. And RT is also rez dependent, so they would even be taking less of a performance hit on the RT.

Weird choice to me.

Looks like a CPU bottleneck. Or maybe a vram bandwidth issue. I see no other reason why they would choose to downgrade the count of NPCs in ratchet otherwise. TLOU1 is a very simple two gen old game that isnt hitting the CPU that much so its very easy to get running at 1440p internally at 60 fps. Ratchet, Miles, and Spiderman 2 all reduce several NPC sliders and skybox detail in their performance modes due to CPU limits.

GT7 is just bizarre. I think PD is just phoning it in just like GG who refused to create a new mode for the pro and are simply increasing the base resolution of the performance mode which cuts back foliage, draw distance and other level of detail in the performance mode. They shouldve just taken the balanced mode setting at 40 fps and use PSSR to get close to 60 fps. Maybe the 45% upgrade doesnt let them hit 60 fps consistently, or maybe PSSR is more expensive than checkerboard. Either way, way too many first party games shown had issues like this. And if First party cant take full advantage of this, why would others?

 

[Gaiff]

GTA VI couldn't come at a better time for Sony. If you don't want the peasant version, you'll have to get a Pro.

 

[Mr Moose]

Looks like a CPU bottleneck. Or maybe a vram bandwidth issue. I see no other reason why they would choose to downgrade the count of NPCs in ratchet otherwise. TLOU1 is a very simple two gen old game that isnt hitting the CPU that much so its very easy to get running at 1440p internally at 60 fps. Ratchet, Miles, and Spiderman 2 all reduce several NPC sliders and skybox detail in their performance modes due to CPU limits.

GT7 is just bizarre. I think PD is just phoning it in just like GG who refused to create a new mode for the pro and are simply increasing the base resolution of the performance mode which cuts back foliage, draw distance and other level of detail in the performance mode. They shouldve just taken the balanced mode setting at 40 fps and use PSSR to get close to 60 fps. Maybe the 45% upgrade doesnt let them hit 60 fps consistently, or maybe PSSR is more expensive than checkerboard. Either way, way too many first party games shown had issues like this. And if First party cant take full advantage of this, why would others?

They didn't downgrade the crowd, did they? It's the 60fps mode, it's just comparing it to the quality mode.

 

[SlimySnake]

They didn't downgrade the crowd, did they? It's the 60fps mode, it's just comparing it to the quality mode.

Cerny said they would be using the fidelity mode settings and running it at 60 fps. So by using the performance mode settings which already ran at 60 fps, they are not using the fidelity mode crowd. hence the downgrade comment.

 

[Mr Moose]

Cerny said they would be using the fidelity mode settings and running it at 60 fps. So by using the performance mode settings which already ran at 60 fps, they are not using the fidelity mode crowd. hence the downgrade comment.

Are you sure that's what he said? Wait let me watch it again.

With graphics showing something like fidelity levels of detail but it doubled the framerate.

 

[adamsapple]

Are you sure that's what he said? Wait let me watch it again.

[paraphrase] bridge the gap between performance and quality modes [/paraphrase]

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

>Calls DLSS poor upscaling
>Says DF cannot have reached a conclusion with 9 minutes of footage
>Concludes PSSR is better with an even shorter and poorer quality video
>Says DF is dishonest
>Spends the last dozen posts being dishonest

Technically, we cant even remotely say PSSR is better than DLSS especially if our reference point is the R&C video. Because R&C is using a DRS range of 1440p-1800p in its PS5pro performance mode. Which is what the base PS5 uses in its fidelity mode. So if PSSR is being applied to an 1800p input, that's a much higher native rez than what DLSS quality uses, and as such, PSSR should be better in those situations. Or rather, it better be better.

Have you ever built a PC? Let me tell you this, unwrapping the gear from the packages is one of the most satisfying experiences ever. I'll never tire of ripping the plastic bag to see my shiny brand new motherboard or graphics card. It's quite the experience.

I'd build PCs for a living if the pay wasn't shit lol.

Note those blasted plastic health hazards they use to package SSDs and RAM though. I always end up just pulling out scissors to cut them open.

Looks like a CPU bottleneck. Or maybe a vram bandwidth issue. I see no other reason why they would choose to downgrade the count of NPCs in ratchet otherwise. TLOU1 is a very simple two gen old game that isnt hitting the CPU that much so its very easy to get running at 1440p internally at 60 fps. Ratchet, Miles, and Spiderman 2 all reduce several NPC sliders and skybox detail in their performance modes due to CPU limits.

Could be a CPU thing, though it would be great if we got like a VRR mode type thing where we can see how high the fps are being pushed. Could also be a VRAM thing. Good suggestions. Further reinforced by the fact they chose to use the higher DRS band from the fidelity mode.

GT7 is just bizarre. I think PD is just phoning it in just like GG who refused to create a new mode for the pro and are simply increasing the base resolution of the performance mode which cuts back foliage, draw distance and other level of detail in the performance mode. They shouldve just taken the balanced mode setting at 40 fps and use PSSR to get close to 60 fps. Maybe the 45% upgrade doesnt let them hit 60 fps consistently, or maybe PSSR is more expensive than checkerboard. Either way, way too many first party games shown had issues like this. And if First party cant take full advantage of this, why would others?

The GT thing, I feel just needs a little more work. Or maybe they are doing too much RT. Its almost as if they just decided to do all the RT they could and kept cutting back on the rez till they could hit a stable 60fps.

 

[Gaiff]

Technically, we cant even remotely say PSSR is better than DLSS especially if our reference point is the R&C video. Because R&C is using a DRS range of 1440p-1800p in its PS5pro performance mode. Which is what the base PS5 uses in its fidelity mode. So if PSSR is being applied to an 1800p input, that's a much higher native rez than what DLSS quality uses, and as such, PSSR should be better in those situations. Or rather, it better be better.

Yeah, that's my point. If a 9-minute long footage isn't enough to conclude that DLSS is better, then it sure as shit is true for the opposite as well.

Note those blasted plastic health hazards they use to package SSDs and RAM though. I always end up just pulling out scissors to cut them open.

You're right. Plastic is awful for the environment, but I just love how shiny and pristine new parts look, especially motherboards and graphics cards.

 

[PaintTinJr]

And PaintTinJr Alex did answer your post because the question was asked on beyond3d a few days ago.

I really dislike that this video is being talked about before release, but this post (wherever it is from) is full of it. PSSR was easy to count which is why we stated that multiple times, which means its reconstruction is failing more readily.

But at this point, if you take issue with Alex and his methodology, it'd best you go nip at the bud. The guy is a regular on beyond3d, not like he's hard to find. If you are correct and he's completely wrong as you are saying, then no doubt the folks over there will back you and not him. You'd best be served to go there and address his points directly rather than argue on Gaf about them.

You took issue with akira__ mistakenly calling FSR AI ML upscaling and wanting to disregard all his posts, and now you are calling PSSR reconstruction - rather than inference - so are you stating PSSR is just reconstruction?

 

[Bojji]

The GT thing, I feel just needs a little more work. Or maybe they are doing too much RT. Its almost as if they just decided to do all the RT they could and kept cutting back on the rez till they could hit a stable 60fps.

Even on powerful GPUs turning on just RT reflections in some games can drop framerate by ~50%. This resolution drop is not surprising at all and that base resolution is still enough to restruct to decent 4k image.

Shadow of the Tomb Raider still amazes me, simple - bad looking RT shadows halves frame rate in 2018 game...

 

[Gaiff]

You took issue with akira__ mistakenly calling FSR AI ML upscaling and wanting to disregard all his posts, and now you are calling PSSR reconstruction - rather than inference - so are you stating PSSR is just reconstruction?

No, this is Alex's post in response to a previous post of yours. I just copy/pasted.

I can link to other forums, right?

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/ps5-pro-spawn.63554/post-2351357

 

[PaintTinJr]

No, this is Alex's post in response to a previous post of yours. I just copy/pasted.

I can link to other forums, right?

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/ps5-pro-spawn.63554/post-2351357

No, it isn't, you've used his words as your own. Is it reconstruction or inference that you are backing for the pixel counting?

My memory is foggy on the 6secs of AW2 footage so I can't even remember it to say it looked good or bad, but would maintain it is impossible to pixel count inferenced data without prior knowledge of the algorithm.

So are we to assume it isn't PSSR on AW2 if you standby the 'reconstruction' breaks down? Or are we now hearing you proxy DF saying PSSR isn't ML AI upscaling, despite the Pro adding hardware for it ?

 

[Gaiff]

No, it isn't, you've used his words as your own. Is it reconstruction or inference that you are backing for the pixel counting?

I literally copy/pasted his post. I bolded it to show that I was quoting someone. The fuck are you on?

 

[Mr Moose]

And PaintTinJr Alex did answer your post because the question was asked on beyond3d a few days ago.

I really dislike that this video is being talked about before release, but this post (wherever it is from) is full of it. PSSR was easy to count which is why we stated that multiple times, which means its reconstruction is failing more readily.

But at this point, if you take issue with Alex and his methodology, it'd best you go nip at the bud. The guy is a regular on beyond3d, not like he's hard to find. If you are correct and he's completely wrong as you are saying, then no doubt the folks over there will back you and not him. You'd best be served to go there and address his points directly rather than argue on Gaf about them.

No, it isn't, you've used his words as your own. Is it reconstruction or inference that you are backing for the pixel counting?

My memory is foggy on the 6secs of AW2 footage so I can't even remember it to say it looked good or bad, but would maintain it is impossible to pixel inferenced data without prior knowledge of the algorithm.

So are we to assume it isn't PSSR on AW2 if you standby the 'reconstruction' breaks down? Or are we now hearing you proxy DF saying PSSR isn't ML AI upscaling, despite the Pro adding hardware for it ?

He said "Alex did answer your post because the question was asked on beyond3d a few days ago." then bolded the reply.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I literally copy/pasted his post. I bolded it to show that I was quoting someone. The fuck are you on?

This isn't your first point, you've proxied their work as something you agree with and project as an accepted truth. So the question isn't difficult, and when quoting 'reconstruction' you should have spotted the issue, no?

 

[ChiefDada]

 

[Mr Moose]

This isn't your first point, you've proxied their work as something you agree with and project as an accepted truth. So the question isn't difficult, and when quoting 'reconstruction' you should have spotted the issue, no?

I don't get the issue. It's reconstructing the image.

 

[Gaiff]

This isn't your first point, you've proxied their work as something you agree with and project as an accepted truth. So the question isn't difficult, and when quoting 'reconstruction' you should have spotted the issue, no?

No, I didn't because I don't fucking know. You're the one who kept saying Alex cannot count the pixels of PSSR despite him saying repeatedly that he did and it was easy. Your post was literally quoted on beyond3d and Alex responded to it saying you are full of it and that counting the pixels was easy. You made the claim that DLSS is inferior based on a 9-minute video (that you comically implied wasn't enough to judge but did anyway, using an inferior version at that).

I'm saying that Alex is on beyond3d and if you have a problem with his methods and result, you can debunk him yourself. That would be a far more productive use of your time than arguing on Gaf. He said he could count the pixels. You said it's impossible. Clearly, both cannot be true.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I don't get the issue. It's reconstructing the image.

If it is AI ML it is inferencing the image. reconstruction is lesser terminology of FSR, TAA, CBR, etc because they operate in more predictable ways that can be pixel counted.

 

[Mr Moose]

If it is AI ML it is inferencing the image. reconstruction is lesser terminology of FSR, TAA, CBR, etc because they operate in more predictable ways that can be pixel counted.

NVIDIA DLSS 4 Technology

Supreme Speed. Superior Visuals. Powered by AI.

www.nvidia.com

DLSS Super Resolution

Boosts performance for all GeForce RTX GPUs by using AI to output higher resolution frames from a lower resolution input. DLSS samples multiple lower resolution images and uses motion data and feedback from prior frames to reconstruct native quality images.

 

[PaintTinJr]

No, I didn't because I don't fucking know. You're the one who kept saying Alex cannot count the pixels of PSSR despite him saying repeatedly that he did and it was easy. Your post was literally quoted on beyond3d and Alex responded to it saying you are full of it and that counting the pixels was easy. You made the claim that DLSS is inferior based on a 9-minute video (that you comically implied wasn't enough to judge but did anyway, using an inferior version at that).

I'm saying that Alex is on beyond3d and if you have a problem with his methods and result, you can debunk him yourself. That would be a far more productive use of your time than arguing on Gaf. He said he could count the pixels. You said it's impossible. Clearly, both cannot be true.

If you remember correctly my stance was that you can't pixel count an unknown AI ML upscaled image from 6secs of footage without knowing the algorithm, which applied in this case, and I said if the 860p was correct they more likely had a dev source for the number.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If you remember correctly my stance was that you can't pixel count an unknown AI ML upscaled image from 6secs of footage without knowing the algorithm, which applied in this case, and I said if the 860p was correct they more likely had a dev source for the number.

Didn't they say not that long ago due to all this tech, pixel counting would be so hard and negligible and constantly changing, etc., etc.. I guess it's not so hard depending on their target goals.

 

[twilo99]

If you believe anything said in those tweets then it probably says more about you.

It's pure entertainment, don't you think?

 

[PaintTinJr]

NVIDIA DLSS 4 Technology

Supreme Speed. Superior Visuals. Powered by AI.

www.nvidia.com

True, but can we now replace the word 'reconstruction' with 'inference' and still have Alex's sentence make sense? Is there some primer we all missed on how ML AI inference from unknown algorithm predictably 'breaks down' to provide native pixel counts?

 

[Crispy Gamer]

I can't really say I'm surprised so far by the Part II analysis.. a handful of frames compared and, while we got to know PSSR tends to blur a bit blades of glass compared to Native, which is certainly interesting and something I hadn't noticed, not a single mention of the extremely noticeable improved IQ on Pro over PS5 Fidelity.

I believe these were posted enough times already, just one more as complementary to what DF discovered shouldn't hurt.

Apparently differences so discernible in the IGN high-bitrate encode became too hard to notice in their ProRes file. Or not worthy of a single mention.. but again I won't pretend to be surprised.

On to the rest of the video, but I'll also say immediately John absence feel weird.

Yup I keep pausing the DF footage and the improved clarity is obvious on the pro and it's a bit brighter while retaining shadow detail.

 

[Gaiff]

If you remember correctly my stance was that you can't pixel count an unknown AI ML upscaled image from 6secs of footage without knowing the algorithm, which applied in this case, and I said if the 860p was correct they more likely had a dev source for the number.

Yeah, I remember your stance which was you repeatedly calling them out and pretty much saying they're ignorant. Also, no, Alex didn't get the number from a source because he repeatedly says in the video (that you didn't watch) that he counted and it was easy. You posted this:

Given how the PSSR algorithm works - described in the patent - we know there is zero way DF can pixel count PSSR images correctly.

So the bigger story here IMO is who provided this information without context and for what purpose, seems like it is part of a paid targeted campaign to discredit the Pro like one of our very well informed insiders said is playing out.

So as I said, their whole "we counted it" is BS, and if the number is correct it is because they have a source, What a surprise from DF.

You said there is zero way DF can pixel count PSSR images correctly. You didn't say, "6 seconds isn't enough to count."

You also said this:

but they are never going to opine that PSSR is better than DLSS ... even though it already is,.

But also this:

so a measly 65GB for 9minutes still isn't what we see when gaming even captured at ProRes quality.

Implying that their capture still wouldn't be enough to judge...but did it yourself with the crappier footage of the stream. Understand why it's hard to take you seriously? Zero way to count PSSR pixels but DF did. 65GB of footage lasting 9 minutes is "measly" and not enough to tell that DLSS is better, but apparently, a shitty youtube stream is good enough for you to conclude that PSSR is better.

You call DF biased and paid by NVIDIA, but you're totally not biased towards Sony, right?

 

[Zathalus]

Didn't they say not that long ago due to all this tech, pixel counting would be so hard and negligible and constantly changing, etc., etc.. I guess it's not so hard depending on their target goals.

They did. But they followed up with following article last year:

DF Weekly: The goalposts have shifted again in assessing console image quality

Every week, I like to choose one specific topic to discuss from the latest edition of DF Direct Weekly - and there's ce…

www.eurogamer.net

Basically finding another method to find a way of measuring image quality has proven to be pointless for now. So pixel counting by itself doesn't mean much, but combining that with analysis of the final image is the best option so far.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They did. But they followed up with following article last year:

DF Weekly: The goalposts have shifted again in assessing console image quality

Every week, I like to choose one specific topic to discuss from the latest edition of DF Direct Weekly - and there's ce…

www.eurogamer.net

Basically finding another method to find a way of measuring image quality has proven to be pointless for now. So pixel counting by itself doesn't mean much, but combining that with analysis of the final image is the best option so far.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Yeah, I remember your stance which was you repeatedly calling them out and pretty much saying they're ignorant. Also, no, Alex didn't get the number from a source because he repeatedly says in the video (that you didn't watch) that he counted and it was easy. You posted this:





You said there is zero way DF can pixel count PSSR images correctly. You didn't say, "6 seconds isn't enough to count."

You also said this:


But also this:


Implying that their capture still wouldn't be enough to judge...but did it yourself with the crappier footage of the stream. Understand why it's hard to take you seriously? Zero way to count PSSR pixels but DF did. 65GB of footage lasting 9 minutes is "measly" and not enough to tell that DLSS is better, but apparently, a shitty youtube stream is good enough for you to conclude that PSSR is better.

You call DF biased and paid by NVIDIA, but you're totally not biased towards Sony, right?

Wait a second, I'm not holding myself up as a primary source of impartial information for 1M subs and more to make a living, so my bias towards buying Sony's tech - beyond gaming - led mostly by science is hardly something I need to fight against, or try to disguise, and ironically as it stands with my stance on disc drives/physical as default in the box, I'm still not confirmed to be buying a Pro

And at no point did I say my opinion of PSSR being superior was based on just one source of info, but it is easy to see why you put 2 + 2 together on that.