Charlie Kirk assassinated at Utah campus event

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Trilobit said:
Him no longer having contact with his online crazy friends/media will probably eventually deradicalize him somewhat and reality will hit him hard. If in his mind he did it for the love of his boyfriend then that love too will likely subside and he'll be left with nothing but his parents who still truly love their son despite everything. And he'll realize how much he's managed to hurt them as he spends years on deathrow. It'll be brutal unless he's a complete psychopath.
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He could also get back to religion in prison.
The feel of regret and repentance after that would shock him to the core, big time - and then the realization that God still loves him will shock him even more.
And, here comes the sappy ending: When he will then eventually meet Charlie in Heaven, Charlie is going to be glad to see him make it and there will be no hate in Tyler's heart anymore.
 
Embearded said:
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wa600 said:
This is how 'Der Spiegel' reports on this. Der Spiegel is pretty much Germany's most influential weekly news magazine:


They are by far not the only one who act like those losing their jobs are losing their job for voicing criticism while the other side is depicted as right wing lunatics sending death threats. I am strictly against death threats towards anyone and I think basically everyone here can agree on that.

Frankfurter Rundschau (regional newspaper) frames it like this in their headline:

While in the articles they do say that some are getting fired for mocking his death, they paint the picture like its only a small minority and anyone voicing a single word of criticism gets targeted.

And now I just heard on WDR (television funded by public money) this:


This is considered satirical comedy. I do find it extremely questionable to equate Kirk with Hitler and basically signaling that Kirks assassinition was a positive thing.
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It's sad to see the state of journalism across the world. I used to have a lot of respect for the profession, but now they've become nothing more than propagandists.
 
wa600 said:
Just got recommended this 2 day old thread on reddit. Reading the (heavily upvoted) comments made me laugh

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That's the problem when people rush to make claims before they've been confirmed or verified - people pick and choose the claims that fits their worldview and run wild

Kind of like how people are still running wild with this being associated with a concerted leftist attack or some trans terrorist uprising, despite me having not seen one piece of evidence to support this?

From what I'm seeing, if you had to pin down what drove him to do this it seems his core beliefs are rooted in libertarianism; believing that grown adults should be able to make their own choices about their sexuality or identity, free of discrimination and persecution. These are libertarians ideals. I'm not seeing anywhere how he was in any way involved in any socialist , leftist, or democratic groups, yet that's all that's being posted everywhere.
 
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12Goblins said:
That's the problem when people rush to make claims before they've been confirmed or verified - people pick and choose the claims that fits their worldview best and run wild

Kind of like how people are still running wild with this being associated with a concerted leftist attack or some trans terrorist uprising, despite me not seeing a single piece of evidence to support this?

From what I'm seeing, if you had to pin down what drove him to do this it seems his core beliefs are rooted in libertarianism; believing that grown adults should be able to make their own choices about their sexuality or identity free of discrimination and persecution. These are libertarians ideals. I'm not seeing anywhere how he was in any way involved in any socialist , leftist, or democratic groups, yet that's all that's being posted everywhere.
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The guy was a young man who was terminally online, used memes for his calling card, had a trans boyfriend who was a furry and we are just meant to believe it was the meany religious parents fault for being too strictywickty...

Where do you think the ideology to assassinate Charlie Kirk would have originated from? c'mon lets be real here. Radical left wing voices have openly called for assassination attempts for a better part of this year.

For a man whose terminally online, in extremist online groups, has a furry Boyfriend, you can't see a single scenario of him cruising through his algorithmic determined left wing bubble on tiktok and seeing the multiple calls from radicals to end the persons life that you don't like, usually those vids are directed at the president?

This was the most externally influenced person there is, there is no evidence to me that he was just a confused silly boy with some mental health problems.
 
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12Goblins said:
it seems his core beliefs are rooted in libertarianism; believing that grown adults should be able to make their own choices about their sexuality or identity, free of discrimination and persecution. These are libertarians ideals
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I disagree with this characterization; libertarians believe in free choices and free association and discourse. In other words, they will defend someone's right to have whatever sex life they want free from state intervention and defend the rights of a nearby church school to openly teach and hire staff in line with a belief against homosexuality. In other words, freedom not just at the hyper-individualist level but also at the group level of letting people build associations out of strongly held beliefs and live them out in the public square. They will defend the right of a trans "woman" to walk into your coffee shop dressed however they like without violent or legal repercussions -- and also defend your right as the business to say "sir" to him instead of "ma'am" no matter how much that angers him.

The progressive/left twist on this is very different. It claims that even having to come into contact with people who don't follow and affirm your identity amounts to violence. So instead of a hands-off approach of letting discourse, free association, and the market play out on their own, they try to enforce an entire legal regime built around a small set of their favored "protected classes." And in so doing, they openly and gleefully end up limiting the freedom of businesses, religious groups, political groups etc.

Tyler is in the latter group. His concept that "hate can't be negotiated with" and his antifa symbols on the bullets tell us everything.
 
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Doomtrain said:
One of the most insane/infuriating things about this is that these people are simultaneously trying to dodge blame for this WHILE OPENLY CELEBRATING IT. "We would never do this thing. But it sure is great that it happened!" Spare me.
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Most of America isn't buying this one. The mask is off and it ain't going back on.
 
12Goblins said:
From what I'm seeing, if you had to pin down what drove him to do this it seems his core beliefs are rooted in libertarianism; believing that grown adults should be able to make their own choices about their sexuality or identity, free of discrimination and persecution. These are libertarians ideals. I'm not seeing anywhere how he was in any way involved in any socialist , leftist, or democratic groups, yet that's all that's being posted everywhere.
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Embarrassing stuff. You phrase it more articulately than the dancing lunatics but your conclusions are not any less deranged.

The killer himself admits why he did it, yet you are regurgitating this braindead take. Seriously, what the fuck.
 
I mean, is there ANY evidence, no matter how tenuous, that he was a "groyper?" Or is that just pure speculation that the left is desperately hoping to will into reality?

I feel like I already know the answer but I wasn't sure if I had missed something at some point during all of this. It does feel like the waters have been muddied quite a bit, and I'm sure that's intentional.
 
Assassinating him is essentially admission to him being right. You don't assassinate someone saying things that aren't true. No one would assassinate a flat earther or someone claiming Santa Clause is real all over the country, everyone knows they are wrong but truth cuts like a knife. Truth is treason in an empire of lies. They know deep down that they can never be a different gender, no matter how much they masquerade as one. This is NOT the same as simply disagreeing on economic policies to help the populace.
 
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Angry_Megalodon said:
Embarrassing stuff. You phrase it more articulately than the dancing lunatics but your conclusions are not any less deranged.

The killer himself admits why he did it, yet you are regurgitating this braindead take. Seriously, what the fuck.
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Bro all I said is im just not seeing the leftist connection. People seem to think that progressives are OK with happened which is just mental to me, and completely misguided.

Like you said, from his own words it just seems (to me) like resentment and bitterness for these people eventually turned him into the hateful bigot he once vilified. I could definitely be wrong but I'm just trying to make sense of all this shit just like you are, no need to call me deranged and braindead.
 
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12Goblins said:
Bro all I said is im just not seeing the leftist connection. People seem to think that progressives are OK with happened which is just mental to me, and completely misguided.

Like you said, from his own words it just seems (to me) like resentment and bitterness for these people eventually turned him into the hateful bigot he once vilified. I could definitely be wrong but I'm just trying to make sense of all this shit just like you are, no need to call me deranged and braindead.
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Where is the narrative coming from then? These 100s of thousands of people cheering the murder online and justifying it, people within left-wing leaning media organisations cheering it on and so on and so forth?

Who is it then? Who do all these people belong to? The multitude of videos coercing the public to "Just do it", and assassinate the president,. who do these people belong to?

He had to get radicalised somewhere; this was a literal political assassination.... Assassination is a very strong and key word there; this wasn't a random shooting of a random person, this was a targeted attack on their political views.

Are we really meant to believe he literally had no influence at all and just thought Kirk was a meanie doodoo head for not having the same views as him...

I am asking who and where all these people belong to if not the left? All those getting fired, the weirdos at SP and Bethesda and MS, doctors, teachers, pilots and so on? Whose ideology is it?

You can tell us it's not left wing ideologies but then whose is it?
 
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StueyDuck said:
Where is the narrative coming from then? These 100s of thousands of people cheering the murder on and justifying it, people within left-wing leaning media organisations cheering it on and so on and so forth?

Who is it then? Who do all these people belong to? The multitude of videos coercing the public to "Just do it", and assassinate the president,. who do these people belong to?

He had to get radicalised somewhere; this was a literal political assassination.... Assassination is a very strong and key word there; this wasn't a random shooting of a random person, this was a targeted attack on their political views.

Are we really meant to believe he literally has no influence at all and just thought Kirk was a meanie doodoo head for not having the same views as him...

I am asking who and where all these people belong to if not the left? All those getting fired, the weirdos at SP and Bethesda and MS, doctors, teachers, pilots and so on? Whose ideology is it?

You can tell us it's not left wing ideologies but then whose is it?
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Clearly, PewDiePie is to blame.
 
12Goblins said:
From what I'm seeing, if you had to pin down what drove him to do this it seems his core beliefs are rooted in libertarianism; believing that grown adults should be able to make their own choices about their sexuality or identity, free of discrimination and persecution. These are libertarians ideals.
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Freedom of speech is as well. What part of killing Charlie Kirk for expressing his views aligns with those ideals? They don't.

Stop saying he is a libertarian. That's bullshit.
 
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ResurrectedContrarian said:
I disagree with this characterization; libertarians believe in free choices and free association and discourse. In other words, they will defend someone's right to have whatever sex life they want free from state intervention and defend the rights of a nearby church school to openly teach and hire staff in line with a belief against homosexuality. In other words, freedom not just at the hyper-individualist level but also at the group level of letting people build associations out of strongly held beliefs and live them out in the public square. They will defend the right of a trans "woman" to walk into your coffee shop dressed however they like without violent or legal repercussions -- and also defend your right as the business to say "sir" to him instead of "ma'am" no matter how much that angers him.

The progressive/left twist on this is very different. It claims that even having to come into contact with people who don't follow and affirm your identity amounts to violence. So instead of a hands-off approach of letting discourse, free association, and the market play out on their own, they try to enforce an entire legal regime built around a small set of their favored "protected classes." And in so doing, they openly and gleefully end up limiting the freedom of businesses, religious groups, political groups etc.

Tyler is in the latter group. His concept that "hate can't be negotiated with" and his antifa symbols on the bullets tell us everything.
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That reminds me of an interview Milton Friedman had (iirc with Phil Donahue), where he was asked something to the effect of "If you were King for a day, what policy would you sign first for the greatest good of all mankind."

Friedman was an economist, not a politician, so he could have answered any way he wanted without political fallout. However, he rejected the premise entirely, saying he wouldn't want to force his will on anyone he couldn't convince with words.

(Incidentally, rewatching some of Friedman's old interviews and I almost forgot how convincing, charismatic, and easy to understand he was. For that career and lecturer status you'd normally expect that type of person to just be an old boring blowhard.)
12Goblins said:
Bro all I said is im just not seeing the leftist connection.
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He described Kirk as "hateful." He had anti-fascist messaging on the bullets. His family and neighbor's statements say he was prescribing to leftist ideology. The Governor also said so. Patel reinforced it. The Utah District Attorney said it too.

There is no other way to interpret all of this information.
 
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12Goblins said:
Bro all I said is im just not seeing the leftist connection. People seem to think that progressives are OK with happened which is just mental to me, and completely misguided.

Like you said, from his own words it just seems (to me) like resentment and bitterness for these people eventually turned him into the hateful bigot he once vilified. I could definitely be wrong but I'm just trying to make sense of all this shit just like you are, no need to call me deranged and braindead.
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Maybe you can borrow her big ass glasses.
Unknown Soldier said:
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Now we will have to argue with people if the murderer was right wing or left wing.

Despite his family saying he had gone hard left. And trans roommate that he loved.
 
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