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[IntentionalPun]

People are editorializing based on some shit he told his friends and kind of ignoring that the guy was reading up on political violence, and was surfing and hiking his entire time in Hawaii according to his friends.

Just because he told his landlord buddy that he didn’t date people because of his back pain doesn’t make it true lol

I mean did y’all read his Twitter feed and book reviews and think “this is a guy who would be getting laid if not for his back pain!”

The only things we know are actually true are the things he’s written online were posted by him. I’d be suspicious of anything else this weirdo told anyone really.

You’ll also note his manifesto didn’t even mention his experience with healthcare or insurance; but instead was quoting some research he’d done on insurance companies.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

People are editorializing based on some shit he told his friends and kind of ignoring that the guy was reading up on political violence, and was surfing and hiking his entire time in Hawaii according to his friends.

Just because he told his landlord buddy that he didn’t date people because of his back pain doesn’t make it true lol

I mean did y’all read his Twitter feed and book reviews and think “this is a guy who would be getting laid if not for his back pain!”

The only things we know are actually true are the things he’s written online were posted by him. I’d be suspicious of anything else this weirdo told anyone really.

You’ll also note his manifesto didn’t even mention his experience with healthcare or insurance; but instead was quoting some research he’d done on insurance companies.

People don't want facts, they want to feel justified in their thirst for bloodshed.

 

[crazepharmacist]

In other words,

healthcare decisions should be left up to a doctor. Insurance company overruling a doctor's prescribed treatment is gross negligence of human life.

Doctors aren’t infallible.. Even though a lot of them like to think they are.

some patients demand brand name medications. Doctor prescribes it per the patient request.

Why should the insurance company cover an exorbitantly expensive brand name medication when a generic version will be just as effective?

That’s going to drive up costs for everyone.

Doctors aren’t perfect. Insurance companies keep them in line.

 

[12Goblins]

 

[EviLore]

 

[DrFigs]

People are editorializing based on some shit he told his friends and kind of ignoring that the guy was reading up on political violence, and was surfing and hiking his entire time in Hawaii according to his friends.

Just because he told his landlord buddy that he didn’t date people because of his back pain doesn’t make it true lol

I mean did y’all read his Twitter feed and book reviews and think “this is a guy who would be getting laid if not for his back pain!”

The only things we know are actually true are the things he’s written online were posted by him. I’d be suspicious of anything else this weirdo told anyone really.

You’ll also note his manifesto didn’t even mention his experience with healthcare or insurance; but instead was quoting some research he’d done on insurance companies.

I feel like people also have the wrong idea about back pain. it's not like it's always super debilitating. like my mom had back problems, and most days she was fine, but then for no reason she wouldn't be able to leave bed for days at a time. I feel like it's also maybe somewhat an embarassing problem to have at a young age, so it might have caused issues there.

 

[Sophist]

we also had mass left wing terrorism in the 1970s which is mostly ignored and covered up today. Heck we had a president of the United States with one degree of separation from these people. This sort of thing is part and parcel with left wing radicalism. So while I think the support for this guy is part of that, he isn’t. Like I said I think he just went schizo thanks to drugs and his brief appearance in court affirmed that imo.

There is a whole theory that the left wing terrorism in the 70's actually was the CIA+NATO to ruin the reputation of the communist parties; Those were getting good scores in France (>20% of votes) and Italy (>35%)... there was a real fear that the "soviets" would seize power through the ballot boxes and unions.

Operation Gladio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Meicyn]

Maybe something substantial will occur. I remain skeptical though. Fully expect the lobbying to ramp up and ultimately kill any meaningful change with a post-decomposition, picked-clean carcass signed into law at the end for the illusion of progress. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

 

[IntentionalPun]

People don't want facts, they want to feel justified in their thirst for bloodshed.

I will say it’s within the realm of possibility he really did have terrible back pain and a surgery that went bad or something.

But he’s also a rich kid that was fucking around Hawaii for a couple of years hiking and surfing then even after he left to allegedly get back surgery he moved to Japan to fuck around there apparently for six months (we know he was at least there, smiling away hanging out with some famous Japanese poker player.)

I’m certainly also editorializing with my theory that he might have been BS’ing a bunch on that topic but I think there’s levels to that too. Certainly doesn’t make a lot of sense to move to a foreign county while you are dealing with a major health issue.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I feel like people also have the wrong idea about back pain. it's not like it's always super debilitating. like my mom had back problems, and most days she was fine, but then for no reason she wouldn't be able to leave bed for days at a time. I feel like it's also maybe somewhat an embarassing problem to have at a young age, so it might have caused issues there.

I suffer from back pain, been living with it for years. Bad enough to where I fall to the ground in immense pain sometimes if I sleep wrong.

It’s absolutely a thing that comes and goes for anyone not just totally fucked. If you are hiking and surfing you absolutely can fuck though lol. And you aren’t to the point where you are so debilitated that I’d think it would drive you crazy or something.

 

[diffusionx]

People are editorializing based on some shit he told his friends and kind of ignoring that the guy was reading up on political violence, and was surfing and hiking his entire time in Hawaii according to his friends.

Just because he told his landlord buddy that he didn’t date people because of his back pain doesn’t make it true lol

I mean did y’all read his Twitter feed and book reviews and think “this is a guy who would be getting laid if not for his back pain!”

The only things we know are actually true are the things he’s written online were posted by him. I’d be suspicious of anything else this weirdo told anyone really.

You’ll also note his manifesto didn’t even mention his experience with healthcare or insurance; but instead was quoting some research he’d done on insurance companies.

His manifesto was basically an axios article about health care costs. It’s totally ridiculous to call it a manifesto. Actually this is something that makes no sense in all of this. He is supposedly an Uncle Ted enjoyer, ISAIF this is not. And he is a smart guy who graduated from an Ivy League school. IMO more evidence of the “he went schizo” theory.

There is a whole theory that the left wing terrorism in the 70's actually was the CIA+NATO to ruin the reputation of the communist parties; Those were getting good scores in France (>20% of votes) and Italy (>35%)... there was a real fear that the "soviets" would seize power through the ballot boxes and unions.

Operation Gladio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, to be fair, that’s how they seized power in many countries post WW2. I’m aware of operation gladio but it’s also impossibly to deny that the 60s and 70s had a lot of true believers. Especially in the USA. And it’s also impossible to deny that universities and government institutions were hotspots for communist infiltration going back to FDR

 

[Toons]

Just Googled her. If you listen to that it's way more than 5%.

She's got some decent songs. But I've not listened to her in a minute.

I listen to a lot of artist with a fambase in the lgbt community tho so *shrug*

 

[Brigandier]

lel. the world has always been like that, just that now you know more about it because of internet.

Reactions to the assassination of John F. Kennedy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Believe me I don't have my head buried in the sand, I know the world isn't a nice place and that humans are utter filth.

It just seems this past 10 years it's gotten so out of hand, Everyone hates everyone and everything lol.

 

[IntentionalPun]

His manifesto was basically an axios article about health care costs. It’s totally ridiculous to call it a manifesto. Actually this is something that makes no sense in all of this. He is supposedly an Uncle Ted enjoyer, ISAIF this is not. And he is a smart guy who graduated from an Ivy League school. IMO more evidence of the “he went schizo” theory.

Yeah I mean he had a friend say he did start doing psychadelic drugs.. of course with the 'back pain' excuse. Which you only should be microdosing at best for that kind of use.

If we was using his back pain as an excuse to start doing shrooms all the time that can certainly affect one's mental health, absolutely if you were going to go schizo at 35 for instance doing a bunch of shrooms in your 20s will quicken that process.

But I still can't really make heads or tails out of how the Japan trip fits into this.

But whatever, in the end we'll never REALLY know. Certainly can't trust what he says in court, but hopefully we at least get more facts out there about how true some of the stories going around are.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Yeah I mean he had a friend say he did start doing psychadelic drugs.. of course with the 'back pain' excuse. Which you only should be microdosing at best for that kind of use.

If we was using his back pain as an excuse to start doing shrooms all the time that can certainly affect one's mental health, absolutely if you were going to go schizo at 35 for instance doing a bunch of shrooms in your 20s will quicken that process.

But I still can't really make heads or tails out of how the Japan trip fits into this.

But whatever, in the end we'll never REALLY know. Certainly can't trust what he says in court, but hopefully we at least get more facts out there about how true some of the stories going around are.

You see that X-ray? Whoever has that going on is in a lot of pain.

 

[nbcjr]

Reddit is deleting any post linking the manifesto

Reddit is removing links to Luigi Mangione's manifesto

Reddit is taking down posts linking to the manifesto of the suspected shooter of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in a move that has angered many users.

www.engadget.com

 

[Boozeroony]

Are people still cheering this rich kid?

Sooo, I hope he still gets the mansion.

 

[ADiTAR]

Sooo, I hope he still gets the man.

ftfy.

 

[BattleScar]

I've been away a while so I haven't read all of these pages but I just want to toss in my 2 copper pieces.

The fact that so many from all different political and religious views are cheering for the assassination of another human being -- and calling for more to follow! -- makes me feel like I'm living in bizarro world. Even IF someone could offer incontrovertible evidence that Mr. Thompson was a complete and total scumbag who intentionally withheld lifesaving claims from UnitedHealthcare patients that wouldn't justify cold-blooded murder in an act of wanna-be corporate vigilantism.

I dispute the notion that this kind of action is the only solution for a broken system. The U.S. lived in a much worse period of robber barons than this. People didn't assassinate Carnegie or Rockefeller or Vanderbilt. They fought for legal changes and they fought for increased power through labor unions. They didn't solve the issue with bullets (edit: yes, I'm aware of some of the skirmishes during the robber baron era, but you know what I mean).

Nobody is saying it is the only solution. Nor is anyone saying its any solution at all.
Its merely a symptom of a bigger problem. Pressure around this issue has built up for decades and it found its release in one sociopath.

In fact, history shows that assassinations/attempts often has an opposite effect than what is intended. (See also, 2024 politics.)

Given the online response to this from both the left and right has been overwhelming apathy at best and schadenfreude at worst, I don't think this situation is going to cause people to want more money and power to be given to Health Insurance companies.

Sorry for the rant but after the last several days I'm just disheartened by the discourse, and it's not limited to a particular ideological lean. I've seen groups all over the political spectrum cheering for this and it turns my stomach.

This is just proof that this problem transcends politics. If the extremely polarised left and right wing general public can find common ground on an issue like this, then you surely must know this is a big problem.
When the average person feels so powerless and downtrodden, that even the idea of going through the "proper channels" feels like an unrealistic solution, it will lead to lone actors trying to take things into their own hands. Because what the fuck else are they going to do?

Is murder the right solution? No. Is it the only solution? No. But that doesn't matter in the face of how all of these average Americans feel. If they feel powerless to act within the confines of the law, then yeah they're not going to shed any tears when one person finally reaches the end of their rope.

And this is the big question. Murder is wrong and should not be celebrated. But if that is the case, then what should average working Americans do instead?

 

[crazepharmacist]

Nobody is saying it is the only solution. Nor is anyone saying its any solution at all.
Its merely a symptom of a bigger problem. Pressure around this issue has built up for decades and it found its release in one sociopath.


This is just proof, that this problem transcends politics.
When the average person feels so powerless and downtrodden, that even the idea of going through the "proper channels" feels like an unrealistic solution, it will lead to lone actors trying to take things into their own hands. Because what the fuck else are they going to do?

And this is the big question. Murder is wrong and should not be celebrated. But if that is the case, then what should average working Americans do instead?

Who are these average Americans not getting their life saving fda approved treatment covered by UNH?

I haven’t seen any verifiable claim.

 

[BattleScar]

Who are these average Americans not getting their life saving fda approved treatment covered by UNH?

I haven’t seen any verifiable claim.

What does this mean?

Do you think that the online response to all this is not comprised of average Americans? Especially when they're both left and right wing people agreeing on an issue for once? Who are they then?
We have anecdotes from people in GAF, saying they've experienced claim denials. Is that not real?

Not for me to find out tbh.
But if, the people who are celebrating this act of violence aren't average Americans, or even representative of average Americans, then there's no problem right? Nothing to despair over.

 

[DeafTourette]

Saw this... Thought it was interesting

 

[BattleScar]

Saw this... Thought it was interesting

This is exactly the point.

This is not even about politics. People are just so fed up of CEOs and in particular Health Insurance Execs, that they've run out of tears to shed for a dead one, plain and simple. No amount of proselytising the sin of murder and how its "not the right way" will change that. Everyone knows its not the right way. That's why these people aren't out there loading up their firearms and running up on every exec to shoot them. They simply do not care that one died. Yeah he didn't personally rubber stamp each and every denied claim, but he did rubber stamp the corporate policies that made it happen.

 

[diffusionx]

Saw this... Thought it was interesting

I just want to highlight this post to discuss what I said. I obviously dont know this person, but in general this speaks to what I was saying.

Based on what I have seen anecdotally, Experimental treatments for chronic conditions tend to be EXTREMELY expensive, like hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars expensive, and people often turn to it after the course of normal treatments fail, normal treatments that are already extremely expensive because it involves years of continuous care. They also tend to have a very low success rate, and the success rate is often defined in terms of months added to the end of the life. It's not "you take this drug and you're cured and will live another 60 years." So really you look at it the way it was posted in there, and I absolutely understand why this person would frame it this way, but look at it another way, "we paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment for you, surgery, chemo, doctors visions, continuous consultation, there is a new treatment out with a 10% chance of extending your life six months and it costs $2 million, we are going to deny this" and it starts to make sense. Even if someone had $2 million in the bank and could pay for it out of pocket they may choose not to, but it becomes a totally different thing when it is the insurance company's money.

So really this needs to be put into perspective, again, peoples' demands for their healthcare is effecctively infinite, especially at the end of their life, but the amount of healthcare that can be given is absolutely finite, this needs to be managed and rationed in some way, it absolutely does, it is why countries with public systems have wait times for what they deem is "not life threatening" procedures, and the wait times can get long, and those experimental treatments are often not even on the table. No amount of murder is going to change this dynamic, we need to get serious and discuss this like adults, this is just the nature of healthcare, I feel like there was a lot of reasonable discussion in the 00s, it led to Obamacare for better or worse, but all rationality and intelligence seems to have gone out the window, you have AOC talking about this like a total retard right now, it is not helpful.

 

[crazepharmacist]

What does this mean?

Do you think that the online response to all this is not comprised of average Americans? Especially when they're both left and right wing people agreeing on an issue for once? Who are they then?
We have anecdotes from people in GAF, saying they've experienced claim denials. Is that not real?

Not for me to find out tbh.
But if, the people who are celebrating this act of violence aren't average Americans, or even representative of average Americans, then there's no problem right? Nothing to despair over.

Who on neogaf said they’ve experienced claim denials from UNH? For what?

 

[crazepharmacist]

This is just one form of violence. Yet, make no mistake, the people at United and Brian Thompson didn't hesitate to "pull the trigger" on so many denials and actively killed thousands of people.

You know who Brian Thompson reminds me of ?

THIS MOTHERFUCKER RIGHT HERE:

Adolf Eichmann - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Too many people are shocked about direct violence (violence you can see right in front of you), but how about the immense violence happening indirectly behind closed doors through paperwork - or in the case of United Healthcare by simply denying life-saving help to tens of thousands of people?

Adolf Eichmann never directly killed anyone, but KILLED MILLIONS indirectly by orchestrating and meticulously managing the holocaust.

This is how HIS UNMEASURABLE VIOLENCE looked like:

THIS IS EXACTLY what those inhuman United CEOs - with Brian Thompson at their front - did for decades, without any concious!

I have nothing but the utmost sympathy for all the individual lives the United Healthcare Nazis eradicated and the thousands of families they devastated.

The Nazis killed so many people because of their fucked up ideology.
United Healthcare killed so many people because of their indespicable, unmeasurable greed for money.

Adolf Eichmann and Brian Thompson are BOTH OFFICE MURDERS.

Fuck Brian Thomson & United Healthcare. Hope he rots in hell!

Comparing a healthcare CEO to a Nazi is literally an insane take. Holy shit.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Comparing a healthcare CEO to a Nazi is literally an insane take. Holy shit.

Talk to people that get denied coverage or have had a loved one die because the bills will be too expensive without it. It's not far off.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Talk to people that get denied coverage or have had a loved one die because the bills will be too expensive without it. It's not far off.

I work in healthcare. Never met anyone or anyone whose loved one died because they couldn’t get their life saving treatment approved by their health insurance company.

I keep reading there’s people on Gaf that have had their claims denied by UNH.

I’d like to know the specific details of that. What were you diagnosed with? What treatment did your doctor prescribe? Why didn’t UNH cover it? Did you have to file an appeal? Was the appeal also denied?

I broke my nose once and had to have stitches in the hospital. I requested a plastic surgeon because otherwise it would have been a really nasty scar.

I asked the surgeon before he worked on me if he was covered under my insurance. He assured me he was. He was lying.

I ended up facing a $20,000 bill that after a year of back and forth and filing multiple appeals, which WAS eventually covered but it was definitely a headache.

Was that my insurance provider’s fault? No. They clearly outline in my plan who and who is not in-network and what happens when I have an out of network bill.

Could I have falsely blamed my insurance company for not providing me coverage and threatened the CEO with murder while having the support of the entire internet behind me? Yes.

I also opted for the cheaper POS plan, instead of the PPO plan, which has better coverage with out of network providers.

So really, myself is to blame for that bill.

 

[violence]

I wouldn’t mind if Stalin got mentioned more to mix it up a little bit.

 

[Paltheos]

The hope I imagine is more competition and transparency (ideally).

My best friend is a pharmacist, and after this whole incident we got to the topic of PBMs. He suggested/we watched a report PBS put together in 2018 that touched on a lot of the key points. He provided some additional context around them: That PBMs were useful as third party negotiators when the healthcare market consisted of drug manufacturers and many, small insurers, each of which on their own would struggle to negotiate with manufacturers on pricing.

For those who don't/can't watch the video, a summary:
1) In some instances, use of insurance via a copay results in a higher cost for the customer than if they had just paid on their own.
2) Pharmacists may take a smaller amount (not share) of the profit off the copaid sale, and the lion's share of the profit from the raised price to a PBM via a 'clawback'.
3) Pharmacists may be forbidden from raising the point of non-insurance payment alternatives by gag clauses.
4) PBMs help determine which drugs will be covered by insurance plans, on a list called a formulary. Drug companies sometimes pay PBMs to get their drugs on formularies - these payments are called rebates.
5) PBMs claim rebates are passed on as savings to insurers who in turn claim to pass these savings off to consumers, although the opacity of contracts does not provide support to this claim.
6) Rebates may result in drug manufacturers inflating their prices to subsidize the cost of paying a rebate.
7) Alex Azar, the previous HHS secretary, claims to have heard reports of PBMs threatening drug makers with removing their products from formularies if they reduce the basic price of their drugs.
8) Mark Merritt, head of the PCMA (a national association for PBMs), claims PBMs can decrease drug costs for patients by 30% and that Azar's claims are incorrect.
9) Merritt states they send rebate dollars to insurers who decide how to use them; that the PBM does not make that decision. He says they're open to alternatives to rebates - whatever's best for the end customer. He states their organization doesn't condone excess profitting via clawbacks.
10) The big PBMs (optum, CVS, Express Scripts) claim to not engage in clawbacks. As of the airing of the video, 28 states had banned clawbacks and gag clauses.

 

[DragoonKain]

I work in healthcare. Never met anyone or anyone whose loved one died because they couldn’t get their life saving treatment approved by their health insurance company.

I keep reading there’s people on Gaf that have had their claims denied by UNH.

I’d like to know the specific details of that. What were you diagnosed with? What treatment did your doctor prescribe? Why didn’t UNH cover it? Did you have to file an appeal? Was the appeal also denied?

I broke my nose once and had to have stitches in the hospital. I requested a plastic surgeon because otherwise it would have been a really nasty scar.

I asked the surgeon before he worked on me if he was covered under my insurance. He assured me he was. He was lying.

I ended up facing a $20,000 bill that after a year of back and forth and filing multiple appeals, which WAS eventually covered but it was definitely a headache.

Was that my insurance provider’s fault? No. They clearly outline in my plan who and who is not in-network and what happens when I have an out of network bill.

Could I have falsely blamed my insurance company for not providing me coverage and threatened the CEO with murder while having the support of the entire internet behind me? Yes.

I also opted for the cheaper POS plan, instead of the PPO plan, which has better coverage with out of network providers.

So really, myself is to blame for that bill.

Yeah, people are just making shit up. They have no idea how many people died directly and only because of denials of UHC or any other health insurance company. They're just baselessly saying "thousands" or "countless" with no evidence. UHC could be directly and solely responsible for zero deaths for all we know. And even if someone did die in the unlikely instance that some treatment, surgery, or medication was the only thing thing that would keep them alive... a) The pharma companies deserve a share of the blame for overcharging for meds. b) The providers deserve a portion of the blame overcharging for care. c) Life deserves a share of the blame for being a cruel bitch and making you sick, injured, or unwell.

People aren't too bright if they're not only baselessly claiming without data or evidence that waves of people are irrefutably and solely dying because of denials and that it's akin to the holocaust. It's not that Brian Thompson is evil, it's just these people are fucking stupid.

And reading about Brian Thompson from the people who know him say he was an advocate for trying within the company to get everyone care possible. He is beholden to his board however, and for maybe the UHC people are just pumping him up, but the point is we have no idea what went on behind the scenes. People just make shit up to spread hate.

 

[Kacho]

NEW: Florida woman breaks down in tears after she became the first Luigi Mangione copycat to be arrested.

Briana Boston, a 42-year-old mother of three, was arrested for making threats to BlueCross BlueShield over a rejected medical claim.

The woman, who is now facing up to 15 years in prison, allegedly quoted Mangione, saying, "Delay, Deny, Depose. You people are next."

This was a similar message that Mangione left on his bullet casings.

The woman told investigators that "healthcare companies played games and deserved karma from the world because they are evil," adding that she was inspired by the recent news cycle.

Boston was charged with threats to conduct a mass sh**ting or act of terrorism.Her bond was set at $100,000. She faces up to 15 years behind bars.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Good. And any numbnut making threats like that should get punished. No different than being an ass at an airport saying "I got a bomb", followed by "just joking everyone".

The more stupid stuff I see in the world the more people I think are dumb as rocks. Without all the constant media and internet news, you dont really know what goes on and how dumb things are except for limited snippets on TV news or newspapers back in the day. And most of that will be local news too.

But now everyone can see how widespread idiocy is.

Oh, on a separate note folks, people started posting Most Wanted Signs in NY of all the healthcare CEOs on lightposts and Brian Thompson was X'ed out like it was a job well done.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

1) In some instances, use of insurance via a copay results in a higher cost for the customer than if they had just paid on their own.

Industry has lots of unneeded costs. Middlemen included if they arent truly needed.

At my work, for years everyone just books their own business travel and hotels. I try to book flights and hotels and a good price, and there's only so many options. For example, if I wanted to do a early morning flight to Montreal, there's only so many options at 6:30 am or 7 am.

Then our company hooked up with some travel company and website where now you use that to do the tickets.

Costs more than me doing it myself. You would had thought some fancy travel company might have some secret corporate deals or their way of scour the net for a better price than me randomly checking Air Canada direct or a travel site.

Same goes for hotels. For those of you who use websites to check 5 hotels at a time, go ahead. Find the best price. Now, call that place direct and there's a good chance it'll be cheaper and the cancel policy is better.

Paying cash straight up might be cheaper too. As I said in some threads before, when I wasnt working yet out of school, I paid cash to a dentist (same one I use now!!!) and teeth cleaning and xrays were $88 or $96 total. Lets say $90-ish for sake of argument. I get a job do the same process but now through insurance and the bill was over $200 for the same shit. Of course it's great for me as I dont pay, but the insurance company just got hosed over $100 going through insurance than a patient paying direct.

The value chain would be cheaper if I had no dental coverage and my company just reimbursed me $90 cash. So that ordeal had a cost that was more than double it really could had been.

 

[Kacho]

But now everyone can see how widespread idiocy is.

Yep.

Loved seeing her cry in the video. She only has herself to blame.

 

[DeafTourette]

I'm not dead, obviously, but I was denied a second implant when I was scheduled for my Cochlear Implant surgery... They said it was "experimental". Isaid this in my other post. Everyone has two ears and if you can naturally hear, those two ears help you hear directionally and you can naturally drown out background noise and more....

With my single implant, I can't do those things. I CAN get a second implant once I get new insurance (with a secondary insurance)... But I should have been approved the first time.

In my case, "experimental" just meant it wasn't WIDELY done at the time but it WAS done successfully. Experimental doesn't always mean it's some pie in the sky procedure or medication that isn't proven. It can also mean it's not WIDELY done but has been approved by the FDA.

 

[daffyduck]

…

Paying cash straight up might be cheaper too. As I said in some threads before, when I wasnt working yet out of school, I paid cash to a dentist (same one I use now!!!) and teeth cleaning and xrays were $88 or $96 total. Lets say $90-ish for sake of argument. I get a job do the same process but now through insurance and the bill was over $200 for the same shit. Of course it's great for me as I dont pay, but the insurance company just got hosed over $100 going through insurance than a patient paying direct.

The value chain would be cheaper if I had no dental coverage and my company just reimbursed me $90 cash. So that ordeal had a cost that was more than double it really could had been.

That has not been my experience. Dental insurers drag their heels at updating the book rates, such that their coverage rates are perpetually several years behind. And the insured gets to pay the difference. Yeah, the insurer is the one getting hosed all-right.

 

[Marc13]

I work in healthcare. Never met anyone or anyone whose loved one died because they couldn’t get their life saving treatment approved by their health insurance company.

I keep reading there’s people on Gaf that have had their claims denied by UNH.

I’d like to know the specific details of that. What were you diagnosed with? What treatment did your doctor prescribe? Why didn’t UNH cover it? Did you have to file an appeal? Was the appeal also denied?

I don't have UNH but I have Cigna. I have their "Cadillac" plan (through work it costs roughly $3,000/month split between myself and my employer) and four to five times a year I have to fight them to reverse claims for my family. The worst was when I had went to an in-network doctor who gave me a heart monitor to wear for a month. After it was all done, I received a bill for many thousands of dollars. Insurance claimed that the heart monitor they gave me is from an out-of-network provider. However, it is what my in-network doctor gave to me. I had no idea, and neither did my doctor, and insurance would not change their stance.

Because this happened to so many people, a new act had to be created called the "No Surprise Act". I wonder how many millions insurance companies saved the last decade doing what they did to me before the new act was created?

 

[Jinzo Prime]

States not named New York, California, Washington, or Oregon are not going to put up with this shit. Fuck around and find out.

 

[crazepharmacist]

I don't have UNH but I have Cigna. I have their "Cadillac" plan (through work it costs roughly $3,000/month split between myself and my employer) and four to five times a year I have to fight them to reverse claims for my family. The worst was when I had went to an in-network doctor who gave me a heart monitor to wear for a month. After it was all done, I received a bill for many thousands of dollars. Insurance claimed that the heart monitor they gave me is from an out-of-network provider. However, it is what my in-network doctor gave to me. I had no idea, and neither did my doctor, and insurance would not change their stance.

Because this happened to so many people, a new act had to be created called the "No Surprise Act". I wonder how many millions insurance companies saved the last decade doing what they did to me before the new act was created?

Yeah, the system is clearly not perfect. I dealt with similar issues when I broke my nose a few years ago, as I detailed in my last post.

But there are a lot of factors at play here. Why doesn't the provider of the Holter monitor service accept Cigna, one of the top players in the health insurance business? Why wouldn't they accept payment from any insurance provider for that matter? Likely because they think the reimbursement rate wasn't high enough.

One could say it's the Holter monitor service for being profit driven and wanting the most amount of money.

Or one could say it's your doctor's office for not doing their homework and not using a different Holter service that was covered by Cigna.

Or one could place the blame on you for not calling the number on the back of your insurance card and making sure this ancillary service you were about to receive was in-network.

Others would just call for the murder of Cigna's CEO and they would have the support of the entire internet behind them.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Nobody is saying it is the only solution. Nor is anyone saying its any solution at all.
Its merely a symptom of a bigger problem. Pressure around this issue has built up for decades and it found its release in one sociopath.


Given the online response to this from both the left and right has been overwhelming apathy at best and schadenfreude at worst, I don't think this situation is going to cause people to want more money and power to be given to Health Insurance companies.


This is just proof that this problem transcends politics. If the extremely polarised left and right wing general public can find common ground on an issue like this, then you surely must know this is a big problem.
When the average person feels so powerless and downtrodden, that even the idea of going through the "proper channels" feels like an unrealistic solution, it will lead to lone actors trying to take things into their own hands. Because what the fuck else are they going to do?

Is murder the right solution? No. Is it the only solution? No. But that doesn't matter in the face of how all of these average Americans feel. If they feel powerless to act within the confines of the law, then yeah they're not going to shed any tears when one person finally reaches the end of their rope.

And this is the big question. Murder is wrong and should not be celebrated. But if that is the case, then what should average working Americans do instead?

You know what, fuck you and everyone who shares this opinion, right or left. I don't care if I'm alone in thinking that murder is not the right way to express your disdain, especially if you are already rich; he had more resources than anybody to fight this shit politically or legally, yet he chose violence.

This does not bode well for the future of this nation if this is what people really think.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

The Nazis killed so many people because of their fucked up ideology.
United Healthcare killed so many people because of their indespicable, unmeasurable greed for money.

Adolf Eichmann and Brian Thompson are BOTH OFFICE MURDERERS.

Fuck Brian Thomson & United Healthcare. Hope he rots in hell!

Oh and fuck you too. "Everyone I don't like is a Nazi" taken to an absurd extreme.

 

[rm082e]

So...they're telling us murdering CEOs is an effective way to get action on difficult policy changes...?

 

[EviLore]

This is just one form of violence. Yet, make no mistake, the people at United and Brian Thompson didn't hesitate to "pull the trigger" on so many denials and actively killed thousands of people.

You know who Brian Thompson reminds me of ?

THIS MOTHERFUCKER RIGHT HERE:

Adolf Eichmann - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Too many people are shocked about direct violence (violence you can see right in front of you), but how about the immense violence happening indirectly behind closed doors through paperwork - or in the case of United Healthcare by simply denying life-saving help to tens of thousands of people?

Adolf Eichmann never directly killed anyone, but KILLED MILLIONS indirectly by orchestrating and meticulously managing the holocaust.

This is how HIS UNMEASURABLE VIOLENCE looked like:



THIS IS EXACTLY what those inhuman United CEOs - with Brian Thompson at their front - did for decades, without any concious!

I have nothing but the utmost sympathy for all the individual lives the United Healthcare Nazis eradicated and the thousands of families they devastated.

The Nazis killed so many people because of their fucked up ideology.
United Healthcare killed so many people because of their indespicable, unmeasurable greed for money.

Adolf Eichmann and Brian Thompson are BOTH OFFICE MURDERERS.

Fuck Brian Thomson & United Healthcare. Hope he rots in hell!

There's nothing wrong with feeling for the people affected by denied health insurance claims, and perhaps there is a discussion to be had about the banality of evil, but do take a moment to clear your head and control your emotions before posting.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

News bite said that Magiapone didnt even use United.

 

[EviLore]

Lawyer upgraded. So I guess his family is in his corner.

 

[thefool]

Canadian man dies of aneurysm after giving up on hospital wait

The sudden death of 39-year-old Adam Burgoyne in Canada comes amid a roiling debate over the American for-profit health care system.

www.newsweek.com

According to some perhaps the family of this man is justified to kill anyone who they believe enabled "free" healthcare.

 

[FalconPunch]

Canadian man dies of aneurysm after giving up on hospital wait

The sudden death of 39-year-old Adam Burgoyne in Canada comes amid a roiling debate over the American for-profit health care system.

www.newsweek.com

According to some lunatics, perhaps the family of this man is justified to kill anyone who they believe enabled "free" healthcare.

Ngl, anyone who argues in favour for paid health care as the defacto solution needs to have their reasoning skills evaluated. Paid health care works by excluding a large segment of the population to free up capacity for those who have money. The result of this is that those who aren't well off have significantly worse health care outcomes than those with money.

The solution is to have universal public health care as the defacto funded by individual and corporate taxes. Doing this improves the health care outcomes of all citizens. It also drives down the unit cost of Healthcare due to the increased volume. It also prevents people from going bankrupt as a result of sickness which happens a lot in America. It also takes the burden off businesses because the health plans they offer as benefits can be scaled back due to the universal option. It essentially reduces their health care cost.

Now in addition to a universal option, you have a private option for those who are well off. They'll have access to reduced wait times, the best doctors, etc. It's the best of both worlds really.

Finally opponents of universal Healthcare always point to the long wait times. Long wait times are indeed a big issue however, what they fail to point out in your article above is what would have happened if the guy didn't have access to Healthcare. That guy in the article would have never seen a doctor at all and died at home. This happens to a lot of Americans today. Now that's not to say universal health care is perfect. It's not and it has a lot of room for improvement. However, it is exponentially better than what exists in the USA today. The only people that benefit from this current system are insurance companies and drug companies. If you're rich, you still don't benefit in this system because you still have to over pay for private Healthcare when compared to countries with both private and a universal option.

Like I said, if you don't work at a insurance company or drug company, there's absolutely no reason to argue for the status quo. You're literally screwing yourself.

 

[thefool]

Ngl, anyone who argues in favour for paid health care as the defacto solution needs to have their reasoning skills evaluated.

I have lived all my life under "free" healthcare. That's the difference between you and me, your perception of universal healthcare is fictitious, mine is nightmarish.

 

[FalconPunch]

I have lived all my life under "free" healthcare. That's the difference between you and me, your perception of universal healthcare is fictitious, mine is nightmarish.

I live in Canada and I've lived overseas where I had to pay for my health care. The amount of CT scans, mris, ultrasounds I've had along with surgeries would have already bankrupted me if I had to pay out of pocket. You literally don't know what nightmarish is. When my grandmother(she didn't live in canada) had cancer, the options were fly her to USA for treatment or India. We ended up choosing India despite the fact that we're not Indians because the prices in the states were absurd. Even then, we spent tens of thousands of dollars on treatment, hospital stay, etc. It turned into a whole family expense with the extended family chipping in to pay the bills.

The health care in Canada isn't the fastest or the most efficient but it gets the job done for the most part. The people in free health care like yourselves who complain about the service don't know what it's like to have to pay for health care. When you have to pay thousands of dollars out of pocket that you don't have, it turns into a begging expedition real quickly. Either you find someone to help you or you just die. Even in the states, I had an uncle who we all chipped in money for when he got cancer. He still died and left his family in a very terrible situation.