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[Dorfdad]

BOLD FACE FUCKING LIE!

You found partner to toss in some side shit work nothing. Some random skins no one will use more than week for a game not everyone plays, and some old classic UBI games that retail for $4.99-19.99 now and raise the cost saying this is what we asked for? Be truthful you want to price increase to cover your bleeding console sales, and game sales % that your losing.

You're not doing everyone a favor adding services we dont care for. Toss in a Monthly Spotify or Apple Music subscription, or Netflix in that cost4K/120 cloud gaming and I'll bite.

 

[davidjaffe]

Video was perfectly clear.

I do think you are not mainstream in the sense that $700 a year is a big spend and I'd be curious on what percentile you fall into. Paying full retail for most titles is also pretty edge case I would have thought. It doesn't matter to you obviously, the value is there, but it matters to Xbox, because I suspect they in one fell swoop remade GPU to be bespoke solution to high engagement users instead of a mainstream offering that is a bit expensive for many but still low enough to let it ride. Or maybe my impressions over what is normal is shaped by my drive for savings in gaming.

Thats not to say its a bad thing to cater for hardcore enthusiasts, just its a pivot that is going to gut subscriber numbers. Also lets face it, they are eroding value whichever way you look at it. How can you invest in the ecosystem when you have no confidence the offering won't change in a few weeks/months?

I know core gamers will hate it (or say they hate it) but Xbox with ads and the rest free=a great, great move. It's a great way to get new people into the art form/medium and get people to test things out they never would before. It's also a good toe to dip in these waters as sooner or later, the whole game will pivot to streaming and then they will have access to the whole world pretty much (just like tv). Obviously they won't be putting day 1 games on the ad stuff, except rare exceptions (aka for Xmas we're letting you stream the new COD all day long for free with ads; we are releasing COSTUME QUEST for free with ads on Halloween or Halloween week,etc).

 

[Not_A-Cop_Maybe]

I know core gamers will hate it (or say they hate it) but Xbox with ads and the rest free=a great, great move. It's a great way to get new people into the art form/medium and get people to test things out they never would before. It's also a good toe to dip in these waters as sooner or later, the whole game will pivot to streaming and then they will have access to the whole world pretty much (just like tv). Obviously they won't be putting day 1 games on the ad stuff, except rare exceptions (aka for Xmas we're letting you stream the new COD all day long for free with ads; we are releasing COSTUME QUEST for free with ads on Halloween or Halloween week,etc).

Exactly. Price increase is ass, and purely out of corporate greed. We can all light our pitchforks at that.

but anyone pretending that having a subscription/service that has a shit ton of games and adds games is a net negative to a consumer as an additional choice is just crazy. There are enough tiers that there is something for everyone. If you dont think the service merits 30 dollars a month, great- buy the game at full price. literally no one is stopping you.

 

[reinking]

I know core gamers will hate it (or say they hate it) but Xbox with ads and the rest free=a great, great move. It's a great way to get new people into the art form/medium and get people to test things out they never would before. It's also a good toe to dip in these waters as sooner or later, the whole game will pivot to streaming and then they will have access to the whole world pretty much (just like tv). Obviously they won't be putting day 1 games on the ad stuff, except rare exceptions (aka for Xmas we're letting you stream the new COD all day long for free with ads; we are releasing COSTUME QUEST for free with ads on Halloween or Halloween week,etc).

I absolutely believe that people should spend their money on anything they wish, so if someone finds value in spending $30 per month for GPU who am I to argue? However, I disagree that Xbox with ads, if it launches the way the leaks describe it, will bring new people in. I think most people can live with the 1 hour limit but 5 hours per month will do very little to get new people into the medium. It might be good to demo a game or two but there are other less restrictive options available competing for time.

 

[CLW]

 

[VAVA Mk2]

No one is asking for this. You morons killed what was left of your brand.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I know core gamers will hate it (or say they hate it) but Xbox with ads and the rest free=a great, great move. It's a great way to get new people into the art form/medium and get people to test things out they never would before. It's also a good toe to dip in these waters as sooner or later, the whole game will pivot to streaming and then they will have access to the whole world pretty much (just like tv). Obviously they won't be putting day 1 games on the ad stuff, except rare exceptions (aka for Xmas we're letting you stream the new COD all day long for free with ads; we are releasing COSTUME QUEST for free with ads on Halloween or Halloween week,etc).

Mr Videogame Director and visionary...Have you ever seen the Google Play and App Store ?

 

[Moridianae]

I think there's a pretty clear indication that they've burned their last bridge and I don't see this initiative being the "olive branch" they hope for. Gamers are a *waaay* different community than your average Netflix, Disney or Hulu consumer. Ads there aren't dissimilar from TV we grew up with, as it were, even for casual gamers.

But you'll be hard pressed to find any gamer, casual or otherwise, who will be enthused about $30 a month or a severely limited free tier smatteres with ads for their gaming time.

Way back in 2013, the backlash to the Xbox One was immense in the beginning, but this arguably feels larger and more severe than even that, which I wasn't certain would ever be possible for them to accomplish again, but damned if they don't seem to have done it.

 

[semiconscious]

'we try to provide players with more of what they're asking for...'

okay, you guys: which one of you asked for this?...

 

[Thanati]

Once my son and I have compelted "It Takes Two", I'm cancelling. Screw MS.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I know Dustin (the PR guy tasked with this) well, and he's a really nice dude - I do not wish this absolute trash agenda on him. I really don't have anything to offer beyond that. Xbox is run by morons.

 

[Moriarty1889]

So people asked for a 50% price increase MS???

 

[Pimpbaa]

How about less of what no one is asking for and reduce the price.

 

[GHG]

As for my stance, I'm confused: my stance is very logical, why would I change it? By the response I've gotten, one would be forgiven for assuming my video was me telling other people they are wrong to be upset with the price hike and they need to fall in line with my thinking. My video is simply going: 'If you- like me- buy 8-12 AAA games/year that drop day 1 on Gamepass, you will be spending around $700 bucks (and that doesn't count for all the games you get to play that you would have bought but are not at the AAA price point.) And $360 bucks is a lot less than $700 and that means- at a pure numbers level- it remains a fantastic value IF (and I mention this in the video) you don't care about owning your games'.

The issue is that it only becomes "logical" if you assume the following:

• That you actually want at least 8-12 "day one" AAA games that land on the service per year
• That you actually want to and can play all of those games during their initial release window (the games become cheaper to purchase as little as a couple of months after release these days)
• That the delta in price (between thr old and new sub costs) was not something that you would previously use to purchase other games/DLC throughout the course of the year
• That you primarily only do your gaming via gamepass, don't really play or purchase anything outside of the service and are happy to walk away with nothing (and as a result lose access to everything you were previously playing) if you ultimately decide to end your sub

But the reality is that this doesn't ring true for most people. The average gamer purchases just 1-2 AAA games per year (as evidenced by EOL attach rates). Lots of people purchase and play older titles that are again not part of the library.

You can take one look at NPD data and see that most people are playing games that are not part of the gamepass library, and most of the top rated and top selling games of the year are not part of the gamepass library either. This all gets even more messy if you're a gamer that primarily plays or is interested in indies, many of which are cheap in the first place and can then be had for ~$5 on sale.

Anyway, the market will do its thing as it always does and they'll get a response loud and clear.

 

[Sardaukarama]

Im more interested in the letter..Does it say please come back and join the Marathon team?
You must have loads of GOW merch so let me have the gift please

 

[Sooner]

What people were asking for was Fortnite crap and old Ubisoft games that have been $5 each for years?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Way back in 2013, the backlash to the Xbox One was immense in the beginning, but this arguably feels larger and more severe than even that, which I wasn't certain would ever be possible for them to accomplish again, but damned if they don't seem to have done it.

yep. because this is real. the 4D chess is over.

back then was the idea/rumors of the DRM
even with the business update the silver lighting was : "well, the ponies will pay for us to play on game pass"

 

[SneakersSO]

Pan out? Feels like an out of control fire now.


On another note, this makes me remember someone I'm always down to hear his insights and he's not always around, but always has a lot of great things to talk about.

S SneakersSO ! If you're still lurking around here, what's really happening right now behind the scenes?

Is it faster than you expected it to be?

Yeah - this is an extremely fluid situation that is simply spiraling at this point. Theres a lot that can be expanded on but at this point, even detailing things here would be a little premature given that we could see some drastic moves in the next few weeks/months.

The one thing I will continue to really harp on is this: none of these things are in anyway something that couldn't have been foreseen years ago. The fact that the media is only now going in and actually trying to hold this mega corporation's feet to the fire, and even then its still with kids gloves, is ridiculous.

All of tech journalism should be gutted given how they will allow any and all tech corps to steam roll them for access. The AI bubble? Absolutely was enabled and pushed forward by tech journalists who should've been more critical and investigative, and actually researched some of the investment structures being utilized.

 

[demigod]

I mean they're absolutely paying Epic and Ubi money for the add-ons no one wanted, at least $5/month for both. The services are $20/month on their own, MS is absolutely not getting both for less than $5 or $7. Should have dropped that bullshit and just made it $25 or $23 and they'd avoided all this blowback. The massive $10 increase is what sent people into hysterics.


They'd have an exit clause where they'd pay Epic and Ubi a lump sum penalty that would probably be chump change compared to the amount of subscribers they've likely bled since this blunderous announcement.

You are delusional if you think ms is paying $5 each to epic and ubi without taking any of the cut of the $10 increase.

 

[demigod]

Yeah, always been on good terms with them. Not everyone at the studio of course but on the whole, yes: I'm a fan.

As for my stance, I'm confused: my stance is very logical, why would I change it? By the response I've gotten, one would be forgiven for assuming my video was me telling other people they are wrong to be upset with the price hike and they need to fall in line with my thinking. My video is simply going: 'If you- like me- buy 8-12 AAA games/year that drop day 1 on Gamepass, you will be spending around $700 bucks (and that doesn't count for all the games you get to play that you would have bought but are not at the AAA price point.) And $360 bucks is a lot less than $700 and that means- at a pure numbers level- it remains a fantastic value IF (and I mention this in the video) you don't care about owning your games'.


I 100% get how people will go, 'Oh, I don't spend that much on games/year' and thus, my position won't matter to them. But I wasn't making a video trying to convince people that if you spend $200 on games/year that $360 is a better deal. At least I don't THINK my video communicated that. God, I hope not.

You thought that Battlefield 6 and a few other games were coming to Gamepass. You cowardly deleted the tweet because people were retweeting and laughing at you.

 

[davidjaffe]

You thought that Battlefield 6 and a few other games were coming to Gamepass. You cowardly deleted the tweet because people were retweeting and laughing at you.

What are you, 5 years old? I took it down because it was wrong. I even made a video (in this thread) where I mention I got it wrong and so I took it down.

 

[demigod]

What are you, 5 years old? I took it down because it was wrong. I even made a video (in this thread) where I mention I got it wrong and so I took it down.

Ahh, so you can respond but didn't when i tagged you about it on here. Why would i watch your video?

 

[Parazels]

we're listening to the feedback of players and the community to try to provide them with more of what they're asking for."

 

[Cakeboxer]

They could have made a lot more money in a much more customer-friendly way. Just bring the first-party games 3 months after release.
Or with the current pricing at least put them into the mid-tier pack after 3 months. The way it is now, Game Pass is dead.

 

[Haint]

You are delusional if you think ms is paying $5 each to epic and ubi without taking any of the cut of the $10 increase.

I meant combined, not for each, which should have been clear from my hypothetical $23-$25 price increase example without the add-ons.

 

[demigod]

I meant combined, not for each, which should have been clear from my hypothetical price increase example sans add-ons.

Ahh ok, that would be more reasonable.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

Who even spends that much on games?? I maybe buy 3 games with one being a game i play a lot online. But 360 euros per year? Heeeeellll no

 

[Panajev2001a]

Actually who or were did they get their findings from when they said "We listened and are giving what gamers asked for"...

They interviewed
- vaibhavpisal
- adamsapple
- MrVoteGreenEvergreen
- GreenRatsForSpencer
- GamePassNutella
- GamePass Anthem Creator
- Various people who proudly stated it would be a steal at $30 or more a month


… I am joking… or am I ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

but anyone pretending that having a subscription/service that has a shit ton of games and adds games is a net negative

Contributed to destroy perceived value of games, centralise the decision of what is produced/how money is redistributed/how content is discovered (go back to the first point and who has control on what is made), etc…

It sounds great as in "get in and enjoy the benefits before the castle comes crashing down" sustainability…

 

[T-0800]

I know core gamers will hate it (or say they hate it) but Xbox with ads and the rest free=a great, great move.

The thing that is stopping my wife playing COD isn't lack of money it is lack of interest. What some of these people in charge need to understand is that there isn't this vast untapped market just waiting to jump in once you set the dials correctly.

He's a thought for the industry. Make great games with a sensible budget and everyone wins.

 

[Nydius]

I know core gamers will hate it (or say they hate it) but Xbox with ads and the rest free=a great, great move. It's a great way to get new people into the art form/medium and get people to test things out they never would before.

All due respect, a lot more than "core gamers" will hate it. I think you underestimate just how much people are sick-and-fucking-tired of ads being shoved in their face in every medium, everywhere. I also think you vastly overestimate the amount of people who are sitting on the sidelines. People interested in gaming already are. If the market hasn't plateaued, it is damn close. Despite the increasing costs of consoles and PC components, with gaming now prevalent on tablet and mobile, the barrier to entry has never been smaller.

The only thing an ad-tier will do is further accelerate the enshittification of subscription services generally, just as it has done on the TV side.

 

[Moses85]

 

[calico]

It's a premium pass made for premium players.

 

[DForce]

If only SenjutsuSage were still around

He'd make sense of all this.

 

[DragonNCM]

Cut the Fortnite, EA, and Ubislop and make it cheaper instead.

Welcome to the Gamepass with 50+ games for 15$

 

[kikii]

 

[consoul]

Xbox: "Price increases are never fun for anybody."

 

[winjer]

I can already see shareholders reading this article and laughing their wait to the bank....

 

[kruis]

Pan out? Feels like an out of control fire now.


On another note, this makes me remember someone I'm always down to hear his insights and he's not always around, but always has a lot of great things to talk about.

S SneakersSO ! If you're still lurking around here, what's really happening right now behind the scenes?

Is it faster than you expected it to be?

He wrote an insightful post in the main thread about the Gamepass price hikes.

S

News  Post in thread 'Microsoft revamps Xbox Game Pass plans and hikes Ultimate to $29.99 a month, Ultimate gets Ubisoft+ Classics and more'

Yesterday at 6:06 AM

I wonder what our old pal S SneakersSO thinks of what's going on right now at Xbox... His last postings were from two months ago, I wouldn't mind an industry insider's perspective on all of this.

Without going into too much detail, not long after the last round of layoffs (next one should be coming in Q1 26 btw - and its going to be just as massive as the last one), some rumblings out of Xbox starting coming out that were a little hard to believe.

The ramifications of the CoD GP gambit not working out were just starting to get properly measured, but the thing that really...

• SneakersSO

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

I ask you, Phil, why not $30 a month or $240 a year if you pay upfront? Seems more fun and skirts the $20 COD issue.

(Also, I was out at $20, but lots of people weren't)

 

[WeaseL-]

$360 a year then you stop,

 

[kruis]

The issue is that it only becomes "logical" if you assume the following:

• That you actually want at least 8-12 "day one" AAA games that land on the service per year
• That you actually want to and can play all of those games during their initial release window (the games become cheaper to purchase as little as a couple of months after release these days)
• That the delta in price (between thr old and new sub costs) was not something that you would previously use to purchase other games/DLC throughout the course of the year
• That you primarily only do your gaming via gamepass, don't really play or purchase anything outside of the service and are happy to walk away with nothing (and as a result lose access to everything you were previously playing) if you ultimately decide to end your sub

But the reality is that this doesn't ring true for most people. The average gamer purchases just 1-2 AAA games per year (as evidenced by EOL attach rates). Lots of people purchase and play older titles that are again not part of the library.

You can take one look at NPD data and see that most people are playing games that are not part of the gamepass library, and most of the top rated and top selling games of the year are not part of the gamepass library either. This all gets even more messy if you're a gamer that primarily plays or is interested in indies, many of which are cheap in the first place and can then be had for ~$5 on sale.

Anyway, the market will do its thing as it always does and they'll get a response loud and clear.

Gamepass was supposed to be the Netflix of gaming, but the service is really only a good deal for hardcore gamers who can actually save money here, not for casuals who never spend that much in the first place.. Besides that, streaming services are popular because their content can be enjoyed by everyone in the family. It's much easier to spend $30 a month on Disney+ and Netflix knowing everyone in your household will use those services than $30 on Gamepass when there's really only 1 person in the family playing games and that's you.

The thing is: games are not the same as other media.

 

[demigod]

If only SenjutsuSage were still around

He'd make sense of all this.

Wonder where he is on X. Dude probably has an alt on here still.

 

[Radical_3d]

"We understand price increases are never fun for anybody

You can tell he's never been on GAF.

 

[RAIDEN1]

 

[Audiophile]

More contradictory word salads.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

crack for the lab rats

 

[Moridianae]

crack for the lab rats

How many rakes can they step on in such a short amount of time?

 

[Ar¢tos]

GAF Xbox experts told us that GP is more profitable than selling cocaine, won't a price hike just make them look super greedy then?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

What are you, 5 years old?

that's demigod for ya all right