Zathalus
Member
It's really not. The far majority of players won't notice the majority of shader stutter.
[MLiD] AMD Magnus APU Full Leak: RDNA 5, Zen 6, 110 TOPS NPU = XBOX Next-Gen Console!
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
Both are accurate
viveks86
Member
It appears the amount of RAM is still up in the air. Any clarity on that yet?
Most likely 24GB for PS6 Handheld, 30GB for PS6 console and 36GB for Xbox Magnus
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Looks like Sony is the low RAM anchor this time. I expect a proportional amount of bitching about it for 6 years straight.
memoryman3
Member
If this Xbox is a hybrid, it's the one that's going to be behind again. 36GB of RAM simply won't be enough to keep up with the PS6 set up if it's forced to run Windows games; the Sony console would have a massive advantage thanks to a unified memory setup allowing both CPU and GPU to access the 30GB w/ no duplication.
The Xbox hybrid would need 64GB RAM to not fall behind, or at least have 32GB of DDR5 RAM included.
Insane Metal
Member
Sony going the unified GDDR6 route again, possibly? Though 30GB doesn't sound like it tbh, maybe 24GB GDDR6 + 6GB DDR5 for system etc
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
By current gen I meant current Gen when these launch. 50 series will not compete against RDNA5, it'll be 2 years old by then. Nvidia has the 50 Super coming next year (just a refresh with more VRAM) and the 60 series coming after that. The 60 series will compete with RDNA5. As I was saying there's no way the consoles will compete with Nvidia's current gen (60 series) 350mm²+ chip.
TrebleShot
Member
RAM won't be an issue due to the speed of the storage.
viveks86
Member
That's awesome. Good to see even the handheld has enough to not be memory starved. Hopefully this universal compression helps with bandwidth as that appears to be the only major bottleneck left
pacman4000
Member
Since I doubt 6 GB modules will be available at launch; saying 3GB in clamshell (10 modules in PS6) is the most likely is interesting...
As for Magnus. Does it use AT2? Meaning AT2-specs for PC are incorrect? (MLiD own video said 64 CUs for PC AT2. It also said 70 CUs for Magnus. And at the same time he said MS is using PC dies. Yes, a real mess....)
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Not how it works.
Loxus
Member
Do you know CUs can be disabled?
HeisenbergFX4
Member
It will have a distinct power advantage but it will come at a cost
And its not just a pc as others allude to, its a console
reinking
Gold Member
I keep telling myself I am not going to get the new Xbox console but I said the same thing about the Switch 2. That hold out did not last very long. The advantage I have in not falling for the FOMO and getting the Xbox console is PC, but if they offer me something compelling, I will crack.
Proelite
Member
We going clamming?
Wait didn't he say ps6 had 8zen6 cores and 2 lp cores and Magnus went the split zen6c and zen6c fat mix?
Also the 160W fuckery for the ps6 is confirmed ? Say it ain't so.
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pacman4000
Member
I'm obviously talking about CU counts for full dies.
Neo_game
Member
I think it could be 40-50% more powerful. According to rumors PS6 TDP is 160W and Xbox will have 250W which is pretty big difference in power. For comparison this gen both uses similar amount of power PS5 can reach 210W and SX 215W during gaming and SX APU was approx 20% bigger. According to rumors PS6 will be 280 mm² and Xbox 408 mm² that is approx 32% bigger.
Yeah it uses AT2. I think that chart is old and AT2 got a spec bump since then.
Bojji
Member
Xbox looks to be faster in all aspects, I think people should accept it right now. Faster CPU, more memory, faster memory, bigger GPU, higher TDP.
No secret sauce will help here. But of course price difference will be big as well, Xbox is going be as niche as "Pro" consoles.
Apollo Helios
Member
Don't care for power kings as like the past Xboxes were and look where it got them. BoM alone forces MS hand to either heavily subsidize or price it hundreds of dollars more, both are really bad for HW troubled Microsoft.
AND hell yeah secret sauce will most definitely help here, the more specialized PS6 is the more it will punch above what's on paper specs, like PS5 but even better because Sony is half defining AMD's roadmap here beyond the proprietary solutions it will include in the system.
PS5 was similarly weaker on paper in many aspects against Series X but it ain't just about what's theoretically max achievable computation or TFLOPs that defines the speed of the system in the end, MS always manage to have a weak link in the design that's bottlenecking the whole thing. Infamous SRAM, different memory segments having different bandwidths, wide GPU parallelization problems and being forced to locked lower frequency, etc etc. They'll find a way to set it up hamstrung, meanwhile Sony secret sauce is not magic it's actually designing an all around balanced system, and improving parts that can be a bottlenecks with proprietary hw. People make fun of and even make memes for that term but it's just actually good systems design.
K KeplerL2 what do you think?
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Bojji
Member
This isn't similar to Series X/PS5 situation. Series X has 20% better GPU for some types of calculations but it's slower (clock) in others, CPU is pretty much the same, ram amount is the same. Ram speed is faster but at the same time split pool generates some other problems.
If you study recent comparisons, Xbox usually has resolution and/or framerate advantage over regular PS5.
Differences will be bigger with next gen consoles, Xbox will be better in all aspects similar to PS4 Pro and Xbox one X situation. It will also have full Zen 6 cores while PS6 will have Zen 6c.
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Apollo Helios
Member
Xbox OS will eat into most of that advantage. And from the comparisons I watched it's actually the opposite of what you claim, and mainly for frame times Xbox still sucks ass with inconsistent frames, drops and hitches. Next gen will be no different. And I'm not buying Xbox simple as that. I might be playing MS games on my PS6 though, the studios aren't that bad.
Apollo Helios
Member
Yeah some still think this mythical Xbox is actually coming all while they're about to go out of console HW business.
Bojji
Member
Source? If this was the case than fucking FULL WINDOWS wouldn't be able to compete with PS5 using very similar GPU:
In the end console OS "close to the metal" Api is probably just few percent better at most vs. Vulcan/DX12. You are believing in things that were true maybe in PS2/PS3 days.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Per DF.
Base PS5 has 12.5GB available RAM for games.
Series X has 13.5GB available RAM for games.
They both have 16GB total RAM.
The Xbox OS seems to be better at memory utilization.
Gamer King
Neo Member
It seems a clear advantage for Xbox Magnus, but these are actually two different type of products.
Sony remains in the traditional console segment and needs to keep costs under control. Microsoft will launch a PC with Xbox brand targeting a niche.
Both companies asked AMD to design what makes sense for them.
Sony remains in the traditional console segment and needs to keep costs under control. Microsoft will launch a PC with Xbox brand targeting a niche.
Both companies asked AMD to design what makes sense for them.
Apollo Helios
Member
Yeah we will see. I'll still get the PS6 and it will still dominate console market even if it is 20-30% hell let's say even if it is 40% slower. Playstation is THE console brand for most of the world, meanwhile Xbox is just a shitty, astroturfing brand part of bigger shitty conglomerate MS. PS6 will likely be a bit cheaper too so that's also going to help. The future is bright for PS6, don't care for your dark clouds.
Bojji
Member
I mean, I fully agree here: PS6 will dominate in sales. But this thread is about leaked performance metrics.
semiconscious
Member
i'm convinced that there're people who'd buy a souped-up next gen consoles even were it announced ahead of time that there'd never be any games for it ever...
Apollo Helios
Member
Yeah, it's leaked but let's see in a few years time how much those metrics actually reflect what they represent. I still insist PS6 slower looking metrics on paper will punch well above its weight and be close to a tie in the released hardware, if Xbox indeed releases a console with similar budgets. Magnus possibly being a PC hybrid and/or if indeed a console being priced 200-300$+ more makes it more apple to oranges comparison though; and I believe the current 3:1 sell through ratio of this gen would turn into 5+:1 ratio, making nextbox only a niche product like those Steam decks
ZehDon
Member
With the PS5 and XS|X, for most games the PS5 is the lead platform with the XS|X being a port and sharing a lot with the PC version. For many games, the PS5 version gets a complete optimisation pass, ensuring the majority of customers have the best possible experience, while the XS|X gets a pass to ensure it performs well enough, but stopping short of taking full advantage of the hardware. That's because XS|X was designed with high degrees of paralisation in mind, while PS5 was designed with higher clocks in mind. Lots of small pipes versus fewer larger pipes, so to speak. Taking proper advantage of the paralisation setup takes a bit of work - and most dev's don't seem to bother.
Series X's multi-thread advantage manifests itself with games/engines that push the PS5 past its paralisation limits, resulting in a resolution and/or frame rate advantage as the Series X can simply do more work at once per frame.
This seems to be different for the next console. With the proposed next-gen specs as I understand them, it's a case of +1 across the board. If PS6 has A, then Xbox simply has A+1, no extra work required. With the industry's shift towards engine ubiquity, that actually makes platform optimisation efforts easier and re-useable. That means we should see a real, demonstrable improvement from day one - as opposed to the edge cases towards the end of the generation we're seeing this generation.
I don't see how PS6 can match Magnus, it has fewer CPU cores, lower CPU frequency, fewer CUs, fewer ROPs, lower GPU frequency, less cache and memory bandwidth. It's not a huge difference but Magnus should have better performance in 100% of games unlike this gen where it's more of a 50/50.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Finally MS is doing something interesting.
When they launched they were the one pushing power. And that's why I grabbed an Xbox. Awesome console.
Seems like they are going back to their roots but it's probably too late.
If it does come to market and you are looking for a powerful console for your front room. This might be it.
When they launched they were the one pushing power. And that's why I grabbed an Xbox. Awesome console.
Seems like they are going back to their roots but it's probably too late.
If it does come to market and you are looking for a powerful console for your front room. This might be it.
Crayon
Member
Wow that is a severe downplay. Even if that was true, it requires playing through the whole game once to shake out all of those stutters. The real truth is that there are things that will reset those shaders like re-installing or even just updates. If it wasn't for being fixed with the forced precompile on linux, I would not be playing games that do this on pc. It's miserable.
Ronin_7
Member
Microsoft producing another flop is crazy, it'll sure be extremely expensive.
Bojji
Member
Not the whole game. Open world games for example repeat stuff so you compile most of the shaders in the first few minutes.
For most games you can have vast majority of shaders cached in 10-30 minutes. Of course unique stuff will pop up here and there during the whole playtrought.
But this is for games with broken shader precompilations, most games these days are ok in this aspect.
kevboard
Member
Microsoft is working on a shader delivery system similar to that of SteamOS.
it's kinda weird tho how OS developers have to fix the unpolished shit that game developers produce these days.
Bojji
Member
In DX9/DX11 days nvidia was fixing broken games all the time in the drivers. They lost that ability with DX12 and we finally saw how "good" developers are...
kevboard
Member
they already technically lost it with DX11, but most DX11 games didn't use an insane amount of shader permutations, so you didn't notice it.
but many modern DX11 games (which are increasingly rare of course) also have shader stutters.
Fortnite's shader issues can't be dodged by switching to DX11 mode for example.
but at least recently they made it so that some shaders will simply be skipped until they are compiled. that still fucks up your CPU performance, but stutters aren't as insane anymore... now you'll see fully blacked out objects and character skins for like 10 matches, but at leats it's a bit more playable.
pacman4000
Member
Copilot-like stuff. It's not for graphical stuff.
110 TOPs ain't bad. Look up what current CPUs from intel and amd offers (iirc, the best one is speced to 50 tops or so)
I.e. you are comparing apples and oranges.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
How much price difference is expected?
I am assuming $599 for ps6 while $999 for magnus.
PS really is going for affordable route if those cut down cpu cores are any indication.
SmurfMustard
Member
Haint
Member
What use is copilot-like stuff on a videogame console? Certainly everyone buying an $800+ console will have a far more capable AI companion in their pocket in the form of a modern high end smartphone, or an earshot away in the form of Gemini Google Home devices. It seems like a total waste of die space, TDP, and cost.
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