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[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[DenchDeckard]

Aaaaand here comes the backtrack.

 

[Zathalus]

Right now RT core per core, Nvidia is about ~40% better with RDNA4.

That depends on the workload, for heavier RT/PT games such as Black Myth or Indiana Jones the difference is near 100%.

 

[demigod]

Aaaaand here comes the backtrack.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Aaaaand here comes the backtrack.

Yes but he already got his clicks. Still Shameful.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yes but he already got his clicks. Still Shameful.

Exactly my point i was saying. Guy is playing the game and im not a fan.

 

[Signalis]

Launch titles

Horizon Zero Dawn : Director's Recut Remastered Edition
Horizon Forbidden West: Remastered
Last Of Us: Director's Cut Remastered Edition
Last Of Us 2: Remastered Remake

 

[Loxus]

That depends on the workload, for heavier RT/PT games such as Black Myth or Indiana Jones the difference is near 100%.

Going by a single game isn't good enough.

Here is a proper test result.
The 9070XT (64 RT cores, 304W) vs the 5070TI (70 RT cores, 300W) is the closest comparison we can get, which isn't double the RT performance.

Radeon RX 9070 XT (ASUS TUF OC) review

 

[Loxus]

Aaaaand here comes the backtrack.

There's no backtracking.
In the video he said it should land between the 9070 and 5080 in raster.

8:41 mark.

 

[Bojji]

They are earning a fuck ton and I'm not asking for some crazy performance like Bojji that is disappointed that tb Pro isn't a 5070. I'm asking for a little of decency in a product where they usually eat costs and still make a fuck ton of money. Or else: disappear. There will be better options if the hardware is not subsidised.

I was worried that the amount of RAM was going to be minimal next gen but seeing all of these rumours about a starving bandwidth at this point I'd gladly take 16GB of whatever they can muster that is fast enough.

Based on leaks I expected 6800 performance, but all that talk about 2-4x RT gave me hope for something more. 4070 was the GPU that many people compared to Pro before release.
We didn't get 4070 performance... Second thing is PSSR, if it was good (close to DLSS) then console would be worth it.

We got nothing... performance is all over the place and PSSR works correctly only in some games (many devs don't want to use it anyway).

 

[Ainem Enamas]

But would the next games actually use all of that

 

[Physiognomonics]

Going by a single game isn't good enough.

Here is a proper test result.
The 9070XT (64 RT cores, 304W) vs the 5070TI (70 RT cores, 300W) is the closest comparison we can get, which isn't double the RT performance.

Radeon RX 9070 XT (ASUS TUF OC) review

Why is 9700 XT slightly worse than 7900 XTX in fully pathtraced games? Doesn't look good for PS6 pathtraced games IMO.

 

[Loxus]

Why is 9700 XT slightly worse than 7900 XTX in fully pathtraced games? Doesn't look good for PS6 pathtraced games IMO.

7900 XTX has 96 RT cores vs 64 RT cores in the 9070 XT.

Also there's a typo, the 9070 XT at the (44) is the 9070.

 

[Zathalus]

Going by a single game isn't good enough.

Here is a proper test result.
The 9070XT (64 RT cores, 304W) vs the 5070TI (70 RT cores, 300W) is the closest comparison we can get, which isn't double the RT performance.

Radeon RX 9070 XT (ASUS TUF OC) review

I'm not going by a single game. I listed two (although even one would be better than 3D mark of all things), but there are even more if you want, Doom The Dark Ages is ~80% faster in PT. Half Life RTX is ~90% faster as well. The difference is really large with the heaviest PT games, especially in games that have a lot of foliage and can use OMM on Nvidia hardware. These results are for a 5070Ti vs a 9070XT. The Nvidia card also uses 25% less power and is a a smaller and less dense chip on a worse node (5nm vs 4nm).

I think AMD can catch up with RDNA5 but exceeding Nvidia as to be twice as fast in RT? Not going to happen.

 

[SABRE220]

This. PS6 should be at least 1TB/s. That's less than a 2X increase over the already 5 years old XSX, that by then will be 8 years old. It's not even an older generational increase. It's just bare minimum.

Even if it's not 1tb, but closer I would digest it, but 640 is just diabolical levels of stupidity.

 

[Loxus]

I'm not going by a single game. I listed two (although even one would be better than 3D mark of all things), but there are even more if you want, Doom The Dark Ages is ~80% faster in PT. Half Life RTX is ~90% faster as well. The difference is really large with the heaviest PT games, especially in games that have a lot of foliage and can use OMM on Nvidia hardware. These results are for a 5070Ti vs a 9070XT. The Nvidia card also uses 25% less power and is a a smaller and less dense chip on a worse node (5nm vs 4nm).

I think AMD can catch up with RDNA5 but exceeding Nvidia as to be twice as fast in RT? Not going to happen.

Here in Cyberpunk, which is a Nvidia favored game. At 1440p RT overdrive with no upscaling, the 5070TI is only 50% better and at the same watts.

Or am I looking at it wrong?
I'm open for correction.

 

[hinch7]

There's no backtracking.
In the video he said it should land between the 9070 and 5080 in raster.

8:41 mark.

That's a very broad estimation lol. Its almost as if he doesn't know.

 

[Bojji]

That's a very broad estimation lol. Its almost as if he doesn't know.

9070XT is sometimes on par with 5080 and sometimes below 4070ti Super, it's game dependent.

 

[Loxus]

That's a very broad estimation lol. Its almost as if he doesn't know.

How can he know?

If the documents states 2.5 - 3× rasterization vs PS5. Without a proper GPU benchmark comparison, we can only guess where raster will fall based on the 2.5 - 3x.

He even says this in the video.
It's as if you didn't watch the video.

 

[daninthemix]

And here I am enjoying 5080 performance RIGHT NOW. Ahhhh. Keep waiting, Sony boys.

 

[hinch7]

9070XT is sometimes on par with 5080 and sometimes below 4070ti Super, it's game dependent.

Well Loxus wrote the 9070 which is significantly slower Massive difference between the 9070 and XT. MLID is only parroting 9070 XT because Kepler said so not so long ago.

How can he know?

If the documents states 2.5 - 3× rasterization vs PS5. Without a proper GPU benchmark comparison, we can only guess where raster will fall based on the 2.5 - 3x.

He even says this in the video.
It's as if you didn't watch the video.

I did watch it and it was ridiculous, especially the 5090 RT reasoning. He might have some of the specifications but his predictions are, well dumb.

 

[ZehDon]

But would the next games actually use all of that

One of the main reasons devs are swapping to Unreal Engine 5 is because it can do in real-time what other engines require baking for. Baking is slow and error prone and in development time is money - hence the trend. If next-gen consoles ship with enough RT grunt to standardise RT solutions for lighting and geometry culling, then dev will absolutely implement that as it'll save them money and time. This means we get better looking games faster with less financial risk to the devs.

 

[Black_Stride]

There's no backtracking.
In the video he said it should land between the 9070 and 5080 in raster.

8:41 mark.

In RT he said itll be 5090 class.

11:59 mark.


How did he even manage to say that with a straight face?

You gonna close that gap with that bandwidth and that TDP?

Even in his twitter backtrack is more bullshit double speak to confuse people.......mate its not going to 5090 class at anything except maybe available memory.

 

[Horseganador]

Hasn't he already mentioned several specifications for the PS6? We'll see what Cerny can put together by the end of 2027 for $599, which I believe will be the base price of the PS6.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Game consoles are suddenly performing like a 5090 at 250W?

 

[viveks86]

Guys, at least he slept on it and backtracked.

 

[Gaiff]

More bullshit.

Alright, so put it all together - All Sony is claiming in the documents I have is that they have a GPU as fast as the 6060 Ti or 6070 in 2027 that uses the same energy as a typical console lol. That isn't anymore insane than when we learned in 2019 that Sony would put a next-gen SSD in a $500 console...and they did do that despite what the armchair experts on Reddit said...

How the fuck did Sony get their hands on a 6060 Ti when Jensen himself doesn't have one?

 

[Radical_3d]

Alright, so put it all together - All Sony is claiming in the documents I have is that they have a GPU as fast as the 6060 Ti or 6070 in 2027 that uses the same energy as a typical console lol. That isn't anymore insane than when we learned in 2019 that Sony would put a next-gen SSD in a $500 console...and they did do that despite what the armchair experts on Reddit said...

More bullshit.



How the fuck did Sony get their hands on a 6060 Ti when Jensen himself doesn't have one?

My guess is that he's taking the 5060 ti and adding a 15% increase that is what generations are now about. But that 5060 ti is going to perform like a 4060 if bandwidth is not addressed. Can't believe is the same company that put 8GB of GDDR5 in PS4.

 

[Zathalus]

Here in Cyberpunk, which is a Nvidia favored game. At 1440p RT overdrive with no upscaling, the 5070TI is only 50% better and at the same watts.

Or am I looking at it wrong?
I'm open for correction.

Check the results of Black Myth, Indiana Jones, and Doom. Doom doesn't look almost 100% but remember that with PT disabled Doom on the 9070 XT is quite a bit faster vs the 5070 ti.

So in a lot of games the difference isn't really that large, but those games have the most demanding PT feature sets while leveraging things like OMM, hence the massive lift in performance vs AMD. Microsoft has already stipulated support for OMM in the next version of DXR so I expect RDNA5 (and thus PlayStation) to have that capability as well. So catching up or even exceeding Nvidia in pure RT is possible, I just don't think it will be to the level that a ~9070 XT card in raster will perform like a 5090 in RT.

 

[ergem]

One of the main reasons devs are swapping to Unreal Engine 5 is because it can do in real-time what other engines require baking for. Baking is slow and error prone and in development time is money - hence the trend. If next-gen consoles ship with enough RT grunt to standardise RT solutions for lighting and geometry culling, then dev will absolutely implement that as it'll save them money and time. This means we get better looking games faster with less financial risk to the devs.

But cross-gen games and PS6 handheld will ensure that baked lighting will still be around at least until PS7 and PS7 handheld and PS6 cross-gen games.

I support the idea of cheaper PS6 in the guise of PS6 Canis (handheld and console), but I hope cross-gen games for next-next-gen will be limited to PS6 Orion. PS7 "Canis" (handheld and console) will be comparable to PS6 Orion by then.

 

[Negotiator101]

Day 1.

De-nial with another corker

 

[KeplerL2]

So in a lot of games the difference isn't really that large, but those games have the most demanding PT feature sets while leveraging things like OMM, hence the massive lift in performance vs AMD. Microsoft has already stipulated support for OMM in the next version of DXR so I expect RDNA5 (and thus PlayStation) to have that capability as well. So catching up or even exceeding Nvidia in pure RT is possible, I just don't think it will be to the level that a ~9070 XT card in raster will perform like a 5090 in RT.

Per CU/SM RDNA5 should beat Blackwell in RT, but 5090 has way more SMs, way more bandwidth and cache, and way higher TDP.

The issue is MLID is interpreting the "6-12x faster RT" as "if a game uses RT on the PS5 and runs at 30 FPS it will run at 180-360 FPS on the PS6", when it actually just means the RT portion of the frametime is 6-12x faster (and the 12x is somewhat theoretical as it applies to things RDNA2 sucks at like multi-bounce GI or diffuse reflections which PS5 games pretty much never use).

 

[Hector Hall]

By the time this is released. Sony will be doing Day 1 PC releases making this console redundant.

That's why they won't do Day One releases.

If they are smart, they won't do any PC releases.

 

[viveks86]

Per CU/SM RDNA5 should beat Blackwell in RT, but 5090 has way more SMs, way more bandwidth and cache, and way higher TDP.

The issue is MLID is interpreting the "6-12x faster RT" as "if a game uses RT on the PS5 and runs at 30 FPS it will run at 180-360 FPS on the PS6", when it actually just means the RT portion of the frametime is 6-12x faster (and the 12x is somewhat theoretical as it applies to things RDNA2 sucks at like multi-bounce GI or diffuse reflections which PS5 games pretty much never use).

Wccftech: Renowned leaker KeplerL2 confirms that RDNA 5 RT performance per CU beats Blackwell and as a result, PS6 RT performance is 6-12x that of PS5. But most importantly, he confirmed that MLiD is a dumbass that doesn't know how to interpret his own leaks.

 

[nial]

De-nial with another corker

Someone is triggered, I guess?

 

[Gaiff]

Per CU/SM RDNA5 should beat Blackwell in RT, but 5090 has way more SMs, way more bandwidth and cache, and way higher TDP.

The issue is MLID is interpreting the "6-12x faster RT" as "if a game uses RT on the PS5 and runs at 30 FPS it will run at 180-360 FPS on the PS6", when it actually just means the RT portion of the frametime is 6-12x faster (and the 12x is somewhat theoretical as it applies to things RDNA2 sucks at like multi-bounce GI or diffuse reflections which PS5 games pretty much never use).

Thank you. While I do believe that RDNA5 can best Blackwell pound for pound in RT…that's the whole issue with his 5090 statement. The 5090 is a super heavyweight and the PS6's GPU will be a middleweight. A top tier middleweight still isn't beating even a mid tier super heavyweight.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Launch titles

Horizon Zero Dawn : Director's Recut Remastered Edition
Horizon Forbidden West: Remastered
Last Of Us: Director's Cut Remastered Edition
Last Of Us 2: Remastered Remake

 

[Loxus]

More bullshit.



How the fuck did Sony get their hands on a 6060 Ti when Jensen himself doesn't have one?

Are you sure Jensen doesn't have one?

Here is what is said to be the 6090, slated to release at the end of 2026. Surely he has a 6060Ti.

 

[Loxus]

Check the results of Black Myth, Indiana Jones, and Doom. Doom doesn't look almost 100% but remember that with PT disabled Doom on the 9070 XT is quite a bit faster vs the 5070 ti.

So in a lot of games the difference isn't really that large, but those games have the most demanding PT feature sets while leveraging things like OMM, hence the massive lift in performance vs AMD. Microsoft has already stipulated support for OMM in the next version of DXR so I expect RDNA5 (and thus PlayStation) to have that capability as well. So catching up or even exceeding Nvidia in pure RT is possible, I just don't think it will be to the level that a ~9070 XT card in raster will perform like a 5090 in RT.

That is not a fair testing of RT performance due to DLSS.

With no upscaling it's about 40% faster.

 

[Proelite]

...he confirmed that MLiD is a dumbass that doesn't know how to interpret his own leaks.

We all knew this.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

One of the main reasons devs are swapping to Unreal Engine 5 is because it can do in real-time what other engines require baking for. Baking is slow and error prone and in development time is money - hence the trend. If next-gen consoles ship with enough RT grunt to standardise RT solutions for lighting and geometry culling, then dev will absolutely implement that as it'll save them money and time. This means we get better looking games faster with less financial risk to the devs.

I personally really like Id Tech engine, and especially the newest version in the Dark Ages, I wish devs would use more of that

 

[Zathalus]

That is not a fair testing of RT performance due to DLSS.

With no upscaling it's about 40% faster.

Both cards are using balanced upscaling. FSR3/DLSS3 perform very similar and are on the order of a few percent different.

 

[Gaiff]

Are you sure Jensen doesn't have one?

Here is what is said to be the 6090, slated to release at the end of 2026. Surely he has a 6060Ti.

Absolutely not. Not only is this uncertain, but NVIDIA might not have even named their products yet. On top of that, the 60 Ti cards come out much later. We're possibly over 18 months away from it. No one has one because it doesn't exist yet

 

[viveks86]

We all knew this.

I don't know about all. I think Loxus may need a bit more convincing

 

[Tobimacoss]

Check the results of Black Myth, Indiana Jones, and Doom. Doom doesn't look almost 100% but remember that with PT disabled Doom on the 9070 XT is quite a bit faster vs the 5070 ti.

So in a lot of games the difference isn't really that large, but those games have the most demanding PT feature sets while leveraging things like OMM, hence the massive lift in performance vs AMD. Microsoft has already stipulated support for OMM in the next version of DXR so I expect RDNA5 (and thus PlayStation) to have that capability as well. So catching up or even exceeding Nvidia in pure RT is possible, I just don't think it will be to the level that a ~9070 XT card in raster will perform like a 5090 in RT.

If he had said this regarding the AT1 die (96 CUs), it would be much more believable. Don't think even Magnus AT2 can reach 5090 in RT.

But cross-gen games and PS6 handheld will ensure that baked lighting will still be around at least until PS7 and PS7 handheld and PS6 cross-gen games.

I support the idea of cheaper PS6 in the guise of PS6 Canis (handheld and console), but I hope cross-gen games for next gen will be limited to PS6 Orion. PS7 "Canis" (handheld and console) will be comparable to PS6 Orion by then.

Cross gen is based on install base, not tech capability. Everything will be cross gen with PS5.

That's why they won't do Day One releases.

If they are smart, they won't do any PC releases.

They have no choice but to do PC releases, there's a yuuuuge gaming population that will never buy Consoles. There's also a yuuuuge Cloud only population that can't afford consoles or refuse to buy hardware.

The bigger the gap between their initial marketing and PC releases, lower their sales.

Wccftech: Renowned leaker KeplerL2 confirms that RDNA 5 RT performance per CU beats Blackwell and as a result, PS6 RT performance is 6-12x that of PS5. But most importantly, he confirmed that MLiD is a dumbass that doesn't know how to interpret his own leaks.

Well, there's the next article.

Thank you. While I do believe that RDNA5 can best Blackwell pound for pound in RT…that's the whole issue with his 5090 statement. The 5090 is a super heavyweight and the PS6's GPU will be a middleweight. A top tier middleweight still isn't beating even a mid tier super heavyweight.

I think only the AT1 die running in a Xbox PC with water cooling could make any claims about being faster than 5090 in either Raster or RT.

The AT0 die is overkill.

 

[nemiroff]

He didn't sleep on it - He fucked that bitch all night long. And then he had a few cigs in bed thinking about all those delicious gullible clicks.

 

[TheRedRiders]

MLiD has had a long history of mis-interpreting leaks, notice that he's suspiciously vague about the RAM size on the PS6, I have a feeling it contradicts his earlier claims that it will be 32 or 40 GB.

That aside, I think we need to he careful of comparing unannounced console or any graphics hardware really to current hardware. No I don't think the PS6 will have 5090 levels of RT performance, but I do think it'll have a very advanced feature set which goes beyond Blackwell. Not surprising as it's releasing 3/4 years after it.

The engineers at Sony including Mark Cerny are not asking themselves "what do we need to beat a 5090 in RT" or whatever, rather they're asking "what do we need to run games will full RT effects/PT at 60 FPS" at X resolution".

Before the PS5 was revealed, almost no one could have guessed its full feature set, the discourse was mainly distracted with ray-tracing and rasterisation, yet no one really predicted things like the bleeding edge SSD and 3D audio, who knows what the "vision" of PS6 is.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Per CU/SM RDNA5 should beat Blackwell in RT, but 5090 has way more SMs, way more bandwidth and cache, and way higher TDP.

The issue is MLID is interpreting the "6-12x faster RT" as "if a game uses RT on the PS5 and runs at 30 FPS it will run at 180-360 FPS on the PS6", when it actually just means the RT portion of the frametime is 6-12x faster (and the 12x is somewhat theoretical as it applies to things RDNA2 sucks at like multi-bounce GI or diffuse reflections which PS5 games pretty much never use).

It makes sense, it is easier for him to get people excited I guess. It is a kind of "build it and they will come" as RT could be relied by devs more if the capability was there. Despite it all PS5 allowed RT more than people thought.

 

[Loxus]

Absolutely not. Not only is this uncertain, but NVIDIA might not have even named their products yet. On top of that, the 60 Ti cards come out much later. We're possibly over 18 months away from it. No one has one because it doesn't exist yet

It's just a staggered release to boost high end sales.

What makes you think they will suddenly drop a consumer well know naming scheme?

It's Rubin, the next generation after Blackwell and already announced and pictured by Nvidia.

You should know these tech companies are working on tech way in advance before it's released. For example Nvidia probably has Feynman complete or near complete and doing testing.

Rubin CPX is also laid out the same way as the 5090, with a few changes. Giving it a high chance of being the 6090.

5090

 

[Loxus]

I don't know about all. I think Loxus may need a bit more convincing

The last time I checked, MLiD is the one leaking the PS6 specs not Kepler.

As it stands, unless Kepler starts actually leaking something on the PS6 specs, MLiD holds more weight regardless of if you like him or not.

Edit:
And I've been saying the only way the PS6 can come close to the 5090 is with the use of AI upscaling and frame generation from the beginning.