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[RetroGamingUK]

It's not the actual geometry compelxity that causes performance issues in Touring Cars btw.

​

Sucks they couldn't optimize it better, oh well. We can emulate the arcade version instead nowadays but tbh I somehow find that less appealing. Maybe I've not figured out a good way to map it to gamepad controls. Can't have the real arcade at home like this guy, heh.

​

Since the first TOCA game was mentioned here, eh, I thought it's quite rough looking/performing too (less on emptier stretches) but seemed to have much for fans of the motorsport to sink their teeth info if they got over that (hence the good reviews). I couldn't at the time myself

​

But it's not on the Saturn so it's ok to not have great performance (even the GT games aren't locked 30fps, but fare a ton better than these two), just like Syphon Filter, Perfect Dark and many other beloved games elsewhere, only on Saturn games/ports is less than locked 30fps unplayable shit

While Sega Touring Car was maxing out Saturn's fill-rate and and proving to be a bridge too far for the console, PlayStation was pushing forward with driving games far beyond Saturn's capabilities.

And it didn't end there with the likes of GT2 and Ridge Racer 4 pushing the limits even further in 1999.

But back to 1997…


Gran Turismo

Each of the 6 on-screen cars have a second semi-transparent car mesh with transparent scrolling textures gives the impression of reflections. This effect became a staple of PS1 racers, impossible on Saturn. There also appears to be Gouraud shading on the night tracks.

Formula 1 97

Check out the amount of cars on that starting grid (14 on screen at once) all complete with lighting (6 on screen cars are lit from the left), all runs smoothly enough too

Porsche Challenge

Gorgeous car models, complete with transparent windows, soft shadows, detailed animated drivers and reactive lighting

Rage Racer

Nicely shaded cars with incredibly detailed tracks high on polygonal geometry, with almost no perceivable draw-in

Saturn held its own in 1996, in 1997 it just fell apart though. VDP1 and those SH2's just couldn't replicate the above, not even close, and VDP2 had absolutely no use in this fully 3D genre.

 

[cireza]

Dragon Force = a classic, but if you were into imports, this was a late '96 title brought over to PAL land 9 months late
Die Hard Arcade = awesome, but a June '96 import that arrived here a year late
Fighters Megamix = fun, but really another late '96 title with a PAL delay added
Virtual On = good conversion of a decent game, but another '96 import that was a bit late in PAL land

In a discussion about the games released in 1997 in the West, we should ignore a game because it was released the year before in Japan.
This has to be the dumbest rebuttal I have read so far.

And Dark Savior is awesome.

 

[Alexios]

If you want a racer with a longer solo mode on Saturn, there is Choro Q Park. NFS, WipEout XL, Drift King '97 etc. too. Maybe Code R & Touge 2 among others. Street Racer has a couple dozen (bite sized) tracks, Hang On GP has 6 plus mirror versions (with 20 bikes each race, I'd say it rivals Ridge Racer visually, some more pop in, but like Ridge Racer is worse than Sega Rally this one's a less exciting game too, if still underrated for how early it released - a sequel with some better animations, improved controls for all devices, not just the wheel. and extra hype in atmosphere would be rad).


Whichever floats your boat. Sega Rally is still the one to get most play time regardless of not being a "long" game though, to perfect runs and/or go back years/decades later because of arcade goodness that is not even superseded by later generation sequels/competitors, unlike other games ​

While Sega Touring Car was maxing out Saturn's fill-rate

None of the games you posted are shoehorned ports from far superior hardware. Obviously it matters, every aspect of the engine, visuals, gameplay logic, physics etc., whether you find it amazing or not, was designed to use/need different, way better hardware. Downgrading one thing to fit on unsuitable hardware is not the same as designing for specific hardware (or very similar specs as in Namco's boards) from scratch. If you're oblivious to this, you're simply ignorant of game development. You can easily often see it with newer PC games' ugly "low" settings compared to older games that run at their "high" settings on the same older spec and look way better than the former. Of course ports can differ but it can both mean better or worse, better because they can tune for a single platform over trying to fit multiple specs, worse for having to make a low setting that didn't exist.

Moreover, any game "maxing out" one thing doesn't mean there couldn't be a better optimised game, just as there are games tthat both look and run worse than GT on PS but GT shows it do way better than those that "maxed" it by utilizing something "wrong" not utilizing something else right, simply lacking the know how, time, budget, to do better at the time/that scenario (like the TOCA devs, who improved a lot with sequels themselves). Basically with that kind of lack of logic, if STCC maxed Saturn, TOCA maxed PS, never mind the games proving otherwise for both systems, lol.

I'm not gonna double check your no pop in or whatever other stuff I corrected you for other games you claimed it previously like (the amazing) WipEout 3, you just post way too much bs & hyperbole to keep bothering (though I'll say "soft shadows" seems suspect, at the very least it can't be we've called soft shadows the last decade in games tech, maybe a sprite that has some transparency at the edges or whatever, though your awful image doesn't show that with some quite obvious low resolution pixel cascading but anyway, right or wrong I won't enable your tirades, further).

All that has nothing to do with what you quoted but that's your reading comprehension and strawman arguments. The point I made about TOCA is that once again you thought a game that doesn't perform great on PS (or N64) is fine when for Saturn any game/port folks may have said was/is good you rush to call it unplayable shit, focusing on any aspect it may not excel in, whether fps or transparencies. Not that PS has no better racers than STCC or TOCA or to write another essay where you're comparing Saturn's worst against the PS' best with dubious, awfully sourced images

 

[Crayon]

I think that list of 97 games is not too shabby but it's really funny to see mr bones on there.

edit: and dark savior is badass.

 

[Crayon]

R4 is another game that contrains the cars on screen. There are spots where you see most of the grid but it does the ridge racer thing of stretching the cars waaaaay out within seconds of the race starting. The vast majority of the time, you are just passing one at a time and it's not a game were you really have traffic.

Some games do that for gameplay reasons, though. Sometimes collision and ai suck and couldn't handle it. Sometimes they just want to emphasize the track as your challenge and not the other racers. This is one of the main reasons daytona is so much more fun than those early ridge racers. It has the ai and collisions down much better and showcases that in the gameplay.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

None of the games you post are shoehorned ports from far superior to both consoles' hardware, one specific game "maxing out" anything doesn't mean there couldn't be a different, better optimised game (as Saturn does have better looking & running games), just as there are games far worse looking than GT that still run way worse than GT on PS but GT still existed eventually showing it can be pushed to do better than previous games "maxing out" this or that aspect by simply utilizing it "wrong" or devs not having the know how, time, budget, to do better at a given time/scenario.

Does any of that matter? The games I posted are attempting (and achieving) to render more than Sega Touring Car was along with implementing graphical effects which, as far as evidence more than suggests, simply were not possible on Saturn.

We've seen countless examples of racing games attempting anything beyond Daytona CCE in terms of rendering displaying serious frame rate issues that it's pretty safe to assume that Daytona CCE is the very maximum the Saturn can achieve in the genre.

Your excuse that Sega Touring Car on Saturn's shortcomings were simply down to it being based on a game running on superior hardware are disingenuous.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Does any of that matter? The games I posted are attempting (and achieving) to render more than Sega Touring Car was along with implementing graphical effects which, as far as evidence more than suggests, simply were not possible on Saturn.

We've seen countless examples of racing games attempting anything beyond Daytona CCE in terms of rendering displaying serious frame rate issues that it's pretty safe to assume that Daytona CCE is the very maximum the Saturn can achieve in the genre.

Your excuse that Sega Touring Car on Saturn's shortcomings were simply down to it being based on a game running on superior hardware are disingenuous.

I think it also goes beyond pure graphics, which PS1 3D is clearly better overall. Sure there could be some good looking Saturn 3D games, but who cares. PS1 games did better 3D as a whole.

But also, when you compare these Sega racing games (or lots of other Sega first party arcade games), they were really shallow in content. It was different in the 8 and 16 bt days where most games were really short, often arcade based, and limited storage meant short games anyway. CD format changed all that. And lots of Sega first party games were still shallow like they did a quick port, added a tiny amount of console specific content, and then moved on to the next port. But then Sony makes GT1 and GT2 which destroy any Saturn first party or racing game.

 

[Crayon]

As far as I know, we've only got one model 2 port to look at on ps1 and that was dead or alive. They took a different approach to it and it makes them kinda hard to compare. I think the saturn version looks better. Might be hands down better if you look at the ps1's backgrounds being basically ditched. The fighting games were a different challenge than the racing games, though.

 

[RetroAV]

The Saturn was unconventional. Under the right conditions, it could push visuals rivaling Sega's Model 2 arcade board (Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, Last Bronx) — just through brute-force coding instead of hardware shortcuts.



But when teams tried to force design styles outside its comfort zone, the system choked. Daytona USA proved that: the Model 2 handled texture mapping in hardware, while the Saturn had to fake it through software. Every console has a design "lane," but the Saturn's was narrower and steeper — step outside it, and performance dropped off a cliff.

 

[Kyo]

Sorry you seem to be just like Retrogamming, looking to bash SEGA, also move the goal posts like now... Its how long it took for a Pal version to come out on Saturn, well two can play at that game

Since you talk of Dragon Force, How long did it take for the Pal version of The Legend of Dragoon to be released, over a year after the Japanese version from what I recall.
You talk of Fighting Megamix , How long did it take of Tekken 2 or Tekken 3 to came out on Pal. I seem to think it was over 6 months for both and lets also remember the piss poor speed optimization in both, with Tekken 3 being really bad (like none) which was quite the thing for Pal optimization on import games on the PS1, where most were made to run full screen but piss poor speed optimization.


And as for the rest it just seems like you're looking to use any excuse to hate. I will agree with you on Mr Bones mind

You're completely missing the point. I don't care in the slightest how long it took for [insert other game for other system] to come out. I care about what new stuff I was getting to play. Me being an importer, Sega of Europe belatedly putting out some game from last year did not add anything new worth playing to my list of choices!

I have no reason to hate on anything. And either way, there was, thankfully, a lot of cool third party stuff still coming out in '97. But Sega's output that year was quite poor.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The Saturn was unconventional. Under the right conditions, it could push visuals rivaling Sega's Model 2 arcade board (Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, Last Bronx) — just through brute-force coding instead of hardware shortcuts.



But when teams tried to force design styles outside its comfort zone, the system choked. Daytona USA proved that: the Model 2 handled texture mapping in hardware, while the Saturn had to fake it through software. Every console has a design "lane," but the Saturn's was narrower and steeper — step outside it, and performance dropped off a cliff.

A few things that made Daytona Saturn look much worse too (aside from obvious res and frames), is why the Saturn version had cars so tall and bubbling up and down. The arcade game had sleeker looking car models and didnt shake so heavy.

 

[diffusionx]

The Saturn was unconventional. Under the right conditions, it could push visuals rivaling Sega's Model 2 arcade board (Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, Last Bronx) — just through brute-force coding instead of hardware shortcuts.

Let's not go nuts. Saturn is not close to Model 2 and could not "rival" it. The examples you posted had significant cutbacks.

The best thing about the best Model 2 ports is that they captured the gameplay of the games extremely well.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Even Sega Rally, which only usually renders a couple of cars on screen struggles with pop in compared to PlayStation's first ever game (Ridge Racer) which can have up to 6 cars on screen.

In terms of polygon rendering Ridge Racer blows Sega Rally out of the water (though Rally is by far the better game).

 

[nkarafo]

Under the right conditions, it could push visuals rivaling Sega's Model 2 arcade board

Come on now, that's just silly.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You're completely missing the point. I don't care in the slightest how long it took for [insert other game for other system] to come out. I care about what new stuff I was getting to play. Me being an importer, Sega of Europe belatedly putting out some game from last year did not add anything new worth playing to my list of choices!

I have no reason to hate on anything. And either way, there was, thankfully, a lot of cool third party stuff still coming out in '97. But Sega's output that year was quite poor.

There's an issue called fairness and since you want to compare what available on Pal Saturn to other systems in 97 then at least also look at the time it took SONY or Nintendo to publish import games to Pal land. There was long waits too and in SONY and Nintendo cases completely terrible for speed optimization, with the Tekken 3 Pal release being utterly terrible in that regard. At least SEGA did a bit of speed optimization with Last Bronx and Fighting Megmix.

I simply don't agree with on SEGAs output being poor in 1997 even in Percy pal land Duke and Quake were utterly brilliant on their own and fair play to Sega Europe and Lobotomy the Pal optimization was decent not just for speed, screen size and then you had great stuff like Shinning In the Holy Ark, Saturn Bomberman, Resident Evil AMOK on Pal in 97 from SEGA Europe to go along with more

 

[Crayon]

Ey cireza and Alexios . I was hoping for a little more return on my investment after writing all that about touring car. How bout you hook me up with some words because I'm starvin here with just the laughing emojis.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Did Saturn have more onboard RAM than PS1? Not talking about the RAM expansion cartridge.

Someone correct me if I am wrong:
Sega Saturn: 4MB of RAM
Sony PlayStation: 2MB of RAM

 

[Crayon]

Did Saturn have more onboard RAM than PS1? Not talking about the RAM expansion cartridge.

Someone correct me if I am wrong:
Sega Saturn: 4MB of RAM
Sony PlayStation: 2MB of RAM

You know... actually this is hardly related to your post lol....

Anyone have any idea how much one of those SH2's cost 94-97? I think a 2x cd was around $50. And I'll just take a guess that a meg of that ram was $20. Really interested in the SH2, though.

I found this paper that mentions some costs info about costs, but not exactly how much the thing was over the course of production. But from this I would guess maybe ~$25???

Price sensitivity is high- A $20 price reduction doubles video game sales- A $29 or lower price point is comensurate with children'sspending capability

https://old.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc06/2_Mon/HC6.S4/HC6.4.2.pdf

 

[cireza]

Ey cireza and Alexios . I was hoping for a little more return on my investment after writing all that about touring car. How bout you hook me up with some words because I'm starvin here with just the laughing emojis.

Do you want a medal or something for having written several sentences in a single post ?

You barely scratched the surface. The game is certainly not ugly, but the framerate is definitely an issue. That being said, it is still a fun game in my opinion and you thinking there only 4 cars and 3 tracks simply demonstrate your weren't there, back then, when the game was released.

Because there is more to it, but you simply rushed a short session of gameplay, going in full of preconceived ideas about it being bad, and ended up thinking it was... bad. No shit.

 

[Crayon]

Do you want a medal or something for having written several sentences in a single post ?

You barely scratched the surface. The game is certainly not ugly, but the framerate is definitely an issue. That being said, it is still a fun game in my opinion and you thinking there only 4 cars and 3 tracks simply demonstrate your weren't there, back then, when the game was released.

Because there is more to it, but you simply rushed a short session of gameplay, going in full of preconceived ideas about it being bad, and ended up thinking it was... bad. No shit.

Ah thank you, my broken vending machine of overreaction. That's all I was asking for.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Yup, same goes for Virtual Fighter 2.

Last Bronx's only improvement 2 years later was better coordination of the VDP2 layers with the camera. Dead or Alive added nothing new either on a technical level.

Fighting Vipers and Fighters Megamix had to downgrade character models and r resolution to achieve the "lighting"

From a technical point of view VF2 is more advanced than the 3 mentioned, only the hot trash D-xhird surpasses VF2 technically. That said I prefer Fighters Megamix because of the lighting . The lack of lighting hurt the Sega Saturn, a launch game like Wipeout looks and runs better than any Sega Saturn racing game, yes there is a version of Wipeout for Sega Saturn with a light source but it can't compete.

The Sega Saturn has very limited vram (the irony is that, in terms of numbers, the Sega Saturn has 1.5MB and the PS1 1MB) however vdp1 only has 512KB for textures, polygons, and lighting.

note VF1 is like VF Remix, but VF Remix reduced the polygon count in exchange for textures in vram of vdp1, VF2 reduced the polygon count again to achieve 60fps texturing the difference is that the art director added more vdp2 layers, thus maxing out the console. In fact, what prevents VF1 or Remix from maxing out the system is the lack of vdp2 layers.

Need for Speed, Daytona CCE, and Sega Rally are among the few 30 fps racing games. None feature light sources; High Velocity and Cyber Speedway are technically more advanced (and ugly) they try to simulate some lighting. The Saturn hardware... sigh...I think Sega did well by selling 9 million Sega Saturns, in a fair world they wouldn't have sold a third of that amount imo.

 

[RetroAV]

Let's not go nuts. Saturn is not close to Model 2 and could not "rival" it. The examples you posted had significant cutbacks.

The best thing about the best Model 2 ports is that they captured the gameplay of the games extremely well.

Sure — "rival" might've been too strong a word, but I think the surprise is just how close Saturn managed to get considering the gulf between it and Model 2.

Model 2 was a beast — hardware texture mapping, sub-pixel precision, rock-solid 60 FPS, and geometry handling that the Saturn simply wasn't built for. No one expected those arcade games to translate well, especially after the rough VF1 and Daytona USA ports.

Yet VF2, Sega Rally, and Last Bronx captured the essence of those games incredibly well. The visuals were scaled down, sure, but the animation, smoothness, and overall "feel" were shockingly close. It's a testament to what Sega's internal teams pulled off through sheer software trickery on a machine that wasn't designed for it.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Did Saturn have more onboard RAM than PS1?

Yes, but it's divided among the many chips so that at the end of the day, there's less memory for textures (this means that every 3d game will be uglier) The Saturn's working RAM is 2MB, but not 2MB like the PSX's, it's 1MB slow L RAM + 1MB fast H RAM. think about it.

 

[NeverYouMind]

LOL Tekken Tag had nothing like the content of Soul Calibur and its Mission Battle mode, don't come it on that one. Madden wasn't made or produced by SONY so don't come it on that one either and has for drivel on Sonic Adv, I take it that's a no then....

Meh. The adventure mode in Soul Calibur is barely worth mentioning since unlike other games in the franchise you cannot unlock new weapons in it, the challenges are boring, and the writing sucks. I emulated it for a while and I was actually relieved I did not have to play it to unlock stuff in Xbox Arcade HD version. I spent more hours in Tekken Tag Tournament's bowling mode alone.

While Sega Touring Car was maxing out Saturn's fill-rate and and proving to be a bridge too far for the console, PlayStation was pushing forward with driving games far beyond Saturn's capabilities.

And it didn't end there with the likes of GT2 and Ridge Racer 4 pushing the limits even further in 1999.

But back to 1997…


Gran Turismo

Each of the 6 on-screen cars have a second semi-transparent car mesh with transparent scrolling textures gives the impression of reflections. This effect became a staple of PS1 racers, impossible on Saturn. There also appears to be Gouraud shading on the night tracks.

Formula 1 97

Check out the amount of cars on that starting grid (14 on screen at once) all complete with lighting (6 on screen cars are lit from the left), all runs smoothly enough too

Porsche Challenge

Gorgeous car models, complete with transparent windows, soft shadows, detailed animated drivers and reactive lighting

Rage Racer

Nicely shaded cars with incredibly detailed tracks high on polygonal geometry, with almost no perceivable draw-in

Saturn held its own in 1996, in 1997 it just fell apart though. VDP1 and those SH2's just couldn't replicate the above, not even close, and VDP2 had absolutely no use in this fully 3D genre.

Sega Rally is the only 3D car racing game from that year that holds up in the gameplay department. As for the graphics of every game...

As far as I know, we've only got one model 2 port to look at on ps1 and that was dead or alive. They took a different approach to it and it makes them kinda hard to compare. I think the saturn version looks better. Might be hands down better if you look at the ps1's backgrounds being basically ditched. The fighting games were a different challenge than the racing games, though.

Actually, PS1 version was on a different arcade board and titled Dead or Alive Plus. The Model 2 version being part of Dead or Alive Ultimate on Xbox makes it the more official version.

 

[Crayon]

Meh. The adventure mode in Soul Calibur is barely worth mentioning since unlike other games in the franchise you cannot unlock new weapons in it, the challenges are boring, and the writing sucks. I emulated it for a while and I was actually relieved I did not have to play it to unlock stuff in Xbox Arcade HD version. I spent more hours in Tekken Tag Tournament's bowling mode alone.

Sega Rally is the only 3D car racing game from that year that holds up in the gameplay department. As for the graphics of every game...

Actually, PS1 version was on a different arcade board and titled Dead or Alive Plus. The Model 2 version being part of Dead or Alive Ultimate on Xbox makes it the more official version.

Wuuiut so there was another arcade version of the game. I assume to make it more affordable.

 

[cireza]

Ah thank you, my broken vending machine of overreaction. That's all I was asking for.

You are welcome. Looking forward to demonstrating how wrong you are again in the near future.

 

[Crayon]

You are welcome. Looking forward to demonstrating how wrong you are again in the near future.

K well I am going back to the game so I have time to assimilate the controls and see what's under there.

 

[Crayon]

I'm going to try this little game where we break these down left to right.

- (own it) I might try again to update my opinion but as of now, I think the game was designed around the arcade cab and loses too much in translation. It's dull, and another that could have used a few original tracks to fill out the home version.

- (own it) Works best as a joke. Totally useless game.

- (Never played)

- (own it) You may have seen my impressions above. Trying to push through but so far touring car does not have much going for it, especially compared to contemporaries.

- (own it) Love enemy zero. Some games are doing their own thing like a death stranding or such.

- (never played) I heard it's amazing. I've seen it and it looks fantastic. I used to have a loose disc but parts of my collection were lost over the years.

- (own it) Hella fun.

- (own it) Really special fighting game. Fun to experiment in and does a good job of adding replay value via unlocks.

- (own it) imo Dark Savior takes some real patience to get into but it pays off. Love it.

- (the fuck?) Is that the jp version of 3d blast? How'd it get on this list? Me trippin? Never played 3d blast, either way.

- (own it) Lovely comfort food rpg. Achieves great atmosphere with the first person cam.

- (own it) Eh the game compilations were not as common then so I guess it's alright. I do consider it a nice way to play these games and I usually will reach for this instead of pulling out a genesis for them.

- (never played) I don't know anything about the reputation of this game.

- (own it) Has the saturn breaking under the weight of the port, but I think this version of VO is outstanding. As long as you can map the controls to your brain, there is very little compromise in the gameplay. Some people consider it as deep as a fighting game, and trust me it's not. But there is a lot to learn and you can get many hours out of it. It even works very well 2-player.

- (never played) Would like to play but I can say I never liked the concept.

- (own it) Try as I might, I could never find the fun in last bronx. I've tried several times over many years because there just has to be something good in there but nah.

 

[Crayon]

Alexios Use your words!!!

 

[Alexios]

The lack of lighting hurt the Sega Saturn, a launch game like Wipeout looks and runs better than any Sega Saturn racing game, yes there is a version of Wipeout for Sega Saturn with a light source but it can't compete.

What light sourcing are you noticing in Wipeout with your anal-ysis, because from where I'm standing the game's look might as well all be baked in the textures etc. since there's nothing dynamic about it and it doesn't affect vehicles going over weapon/boost pads or through tunnels and other areas (or whole tracks) that could seem like they have different lighting levels/colors. There are Saturn racing games that run exactly the same as PlayStation Wipeout does (ie stable 30fps) so that claim at least is objectively, factually wrong. The look part I guess is subjective so you can have that one with your lights but it has nothing to do with your pretend technical, objective discussion either, like most of your claims in this forum

 

[Crayon]

I never seen destruction derby on saturn. Hmm $20 on ebay for jp version... Nah. I'll check a comparison on youtube. I fucking love that game. The structure is bare bones but I can play it for hours any old time.

 

[Crayon]

^^^ jfc what did I do this time?!??@?@

 

[Alexios]

I never seen destruction derby on saturn. Hmm $20 on ebay for jp version... Nah. I'll check a comparison on youtube. I fucking love that game. The structure is bare bones but I can play it for hours any old time.

Yeah, sure, in 30 years of being a Saturn fan not hater and core gamer frequenting gaming forums you've not once happened to glimpse the port of one of your favorite games out of curiosity or by chance, this is totally not about beating another dead horse of a lackluster Saturn port, lol.

Anyway, DF has compared their multiplatform racers, you can watch this and not wonder about any others down the line (well, most, they missed a couple like Impact Racing and I guess Tunnel B1 given some of the unrelated stuff they included here, it seems like they won't do a video for other genres some of those games would fit better in either - ie dump Mass Destruction and Night Striker alongside Soviet Strike and such action games)

Psygnosis
6:02 Wipeout
10:52 Wipeout XL
12:34 Destruction Derby

EA
15:14 The Need for speed
18:35 Road Rash
20:03 Hi-Octane
23:05 Andretti Racing
25:45 Nascar '98

Genki
29:35 Drift King
30:02 Shutokuo Battle

Ubisoft
32:28 Street Racer

36:09 Hardcore 4x4
37:42 Formula Karts
39:56 Race Driving
42:19 Night Striker
44:26 Mass Destruction
45:29 Death Throttle
48:37 Snowboarding Trix '98
51:30 Off-World Interceptor Extreme

Granted DF tend to use emulators so some times show minor things wrong (ie non functional speed dials in a past Test Drive Saturn video, probably why they avoid the cockpit camera in this one).

 

[Crayon]

Yeah, sure, in 30 years of being a Saturn fan not hater you've never seen it, this is not about wanting to beat another dead horse of a lackluster Saturn port, lol. Anyway, DF has compared the systems' multiplatform racers, you can watch this and not wonder about any (well, most, they missed a couple like Impact Racing).

You are straight up deranged lol. No I have never seen it!!!

I'd lie for an excuse to post a comparison? And then you post it?!?!

Am I missing something about this thread? Are we supposed to be larping or something? I have trouble believing you really think I hate the saturn after all this.

 

[diffusionx]

You are straight up deranged lol. No I have never seen it!!!

I'd lie for an excuse to post a comparison? And then you post it?!?!

Am I missing something about this thread? Are we supposed to be larping or something? I have trouble believing you really think I hate the saturn after all this.

you don't understand the nature of the sega fanboy, that's all

 

[Crayon]

you don't understand the nature of the sega fanboy, that's all

I thought I did. I really thought I did.

 

[Alexios]

And then you post it?!?!

So, you don't wanna see it? Ok, yeah, I'm deranged

 

[Crayon]

So, you don't wanna see it? Ok, yeah, I'm deranged

Yes I want to see it. But seriously tell me how you would characterize my opinion of the saturn after all these exchanges the last few days?

 

[Crayon]

Yoooo I am not even one with the df video and im gonna buy need for speed right fucking now. I've never seen it! Loose discs are ~$15 missing manual and completes are close to $40. Eh seems like one that I want complete but I'm trying to be less retarded with my money. tick tock...Bought the missing manual one.

Still watching updates, I guess?
Dammit street racer 40 bucks loose disc. :/
Mass destruction $45
Death throttle $50
Fuck see why I cant do this?

But drift king is $20 loose disc. Getting that. Two games for less than one of those other ones.

It's finished. good video.

 

[Lionel Richie]

you don't understand the nature of the sega fanboy, that's all

Sega fanboys are the final frontier that's holding gaming together. I should know, because I'm a Nintendo fanboy. But watching the honest gusto Sega fanboys go about their business makes me wish I had a Mega Drive instead of Super Nintendo.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sega fanboys are the final frontier that's holding gaming together. I should know, because I'm a Nintendo fanboy. But watching the honest gusto Sega fanboys go about their business makes me wish I had a Mega Drive instead of Super Nintendo.

I had both.

Sega and EA Sports, Sega first party arcadey games, red blood in games, built in headphone jack in console for stereo sound. Genesis > SNES

Fighting games, JRPG, Konami/Capcom games, first party platformers, special effects like Mode 7. SNES > Genesis

Anyone playing either console on a mono sound TV back then missed out. I played them on a crappy mono TV. But Genesis headphone jack was awesome getting stereo sound effects.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

I think if Saturn re-launches this holiday season in Brazil alongside Bug 3, Sega really has a chance to close the gap against Playstation. Crash Bandicoot's a dork and this console war is over when Bug says it's over.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Meh. The adventure mode in Soul Calibur is barely worth mentioning since unlike other games in the franchise you cannot unlock new weapons in it, the challenges are boring, and the writing sucks. I emulated it for a while and I was actually relieved I did not have to play it to unlock stuff in Xbox Arcade HD version. I spent more hours in Tekken Tag Tournament's bowling mode alone.

So you don't want to play a tacked on pinball game , but love a tacked on blowing game . Next you'll be saying the Game Gube launch was the best thanks to Tenpin bowling in Monkey Ball

 

[Kyo]

There's an issue called fairness and since you want to compare what available on Pal Saturn to other systems in 97 then at least also look at the time it took SONY or Nintendo to publish import games to Pal land. There was long waits too and in SONY and Nintendo cases completely terrible for speed optimization, with the Tekken 3 Pal release being utterly terrible in that regard. At least SEGA did a bit of speed optimization with Last Bronx and Fighting Megmix.

I don't want to compare anything, that is all in your imagination. RetroGaming made two points: there weren't a lot of '97 releases worth buying the console for and it was a very disappointing year as an owner. Nowhere does "what was available for PlayStation or N64" factor into these statements, leave alone the level of PAL optimization.

And he was absolutely right. Who'd buy a Saturn for Fighters Megamix when they didn't already get it for VF2 and Fighting Vipers earlier? Who'd buy one for some Sonic Mega Drive conversions? Or a weak conversion of Touring Car when Sega Rally wasn't reason enough earlier? Or Bug Too? That basically didn't happen and that's certainly a reason why the Saturn's market share collapsed after '96. Even the good games were often too much like the earlier ones, and sometimes worse. That's not how you grow your audience.

The other topic we were discussing was how hard Sega dropped the Saturn in anticipation of the DC launch and that list of '97 PAL titles was a good illustration, seeing how most of the good titles were originally from '96, just with a localization delay added. Add to this that Sega would only publish a handful of 1st party titles here in '98 and the dwindling support from them was very obvious.

I simply don't agree with on SEGAs output being poor in 1997 even in Percy pal land Duke and Quake were utterly brilliant on their own and fair play to Sega Europe and Lobotomy the Pal optimization was decent not just for speed, screen size and then you had great stuff like Shinning In the Holy Ark, Saturn Bomberman, Resident Evil AMOK on Pal in 97 from SEGA Europe to go along with more

Duke and Quake may be interesting technically, but at no point did I even consider playing those on a 32-bit console over the PC versions. And really, Resident Evil? I guess at this point we do need to compare: That was another of those "OK port for those who couldn't play the better PS1 original" things. Nobody bought a Saturn for that or the various weaker Psygnosis ports running at 20 fps (if that).

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

How did the Sega Saturn, which is more expensive, outsell the PS1 in Japan in 1995 ?

In 1993, arcades were a thing in Japan and Virtua Fighter broke the monotony of 3D spaceship or racing games, arcade magazines and even TV talked about Virtua Fighter, it was the new Sonic the Hedgehog but this time aimed at Japan.
Sega Saturn was released a year after Virtua Fighter, a year is a short time. But the objective answer is that despite the official price, unofficial discounts were made, so the price was the same as the Playstation, the winds changed when Toshinden and Tekken were released, this led Sega to sell the Saturn with a game included (VF Remix) at the same time as selling an option without a game included for the same price, it was a subtle way of putting it at the same price as the PS1.

Sega Saturn: Why did the games sell so poorly ?

This is old, the sales of a game are associated with the installed base and Sega never had a large enough installed base to popularize a game in Japan, SG-1000 sold something like 400,000 units, Master System sold 1 million while Mega Drive sold 3.5 million. The company's first big hit was Virtua Fighter, VF sold over 1 million copies when Sega Saturn had almost 3 million units sold. Even after Sega became a third party 25 years ago, you can count on the fingers of one of Homer Simpson's hands the names of the games made by Sega that surpassed 1 million copies sold in the Japanese market.

 

[cireza]

RetroGaming made two points

Except he didn't actually make these points as nobody, except you, agrees on them.

 

[RoboFu]

So long story short.. the Saturn didn't fail us ... we failed the Sega Saturn!

Actually Bernie Stolar did a lot of failing as well.

 

[Parazels]

Actually, PS1 version was on a different arcade board and titled Dead or Alive Plus. The Model 2 version being part of Dead or Alive Ultimate on Xbox makes it the more official version.

I wanted to buy it on the Xbox Series X, but those round shadows under the characters indicate that this is Saturn's port rather than the Model 2 version.

 

[NeverYouMind]

So you don't want to play a tacked on pinball game , but love a tacked on blowing game . Next you'll be saying the Game Gube launch was the best thanks to Tenpin bowling in Monkey Ball

I do not like digital pinball or monkey ball. Good bowling sim is fun though.

I wanted to buy it on the Xbox Series X, but those round shadows under the characters indicate that this is Saturn's port rather than the Model 2 version.

You buy fighting games to look at shadows?

 

[diffusionx]

Sega fanboys are the final frontier that's holding gaming together. I should know, because I'm a Nintendo fanboy. But watching the honest gusto Sega fanboys go about their business makes me wish I had a Mega Drive instead of Super Nintendo.

at this point they're like the Japanese soldiers in the jungle still fighting world war ii in the 50s. Except unlike those soldiers, they know it's over.