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[Deficit]

Just disconnected my PS5 from the internet.

 

[PSYGN]

It is time to set you free

 

[squidilix]

And people wonders why all new game have always online login required...

 

[reinking]

And people wonders why all new game have always online login required...

Exactly why I am not celebrating this. It is going to lead to online DRM checks and punish legitimate customers.

 

[StereoVsn]

Exactly why I am not celebrating this. It is going to lead to online DRM checks and punish legitimate customers.

Yeah, on one hand it would be pretty cool to be able to run homebrew and emulation software on PS5.

On the other hand it's going to lead to even more online checks and shit. We already have blu-ray drive activation requirement with PS5 Slim and Pro. This is going to extend I suspect.

 

[Three]

The console itself has a security processor that's got a private key burned into it's read only memory (ROM). This allows the console to verify (and thus, play) games that are inserted into the console from discs or to verify the authenticity of digital games while offline. This has to be possible unless Sony is ready to require an internet connection and disallow any offline play.

As it's engineered now, you can purchase a PS5 console and a game on a disc, never connect it to the internet, and still play that game. The console itself is the state of authority to determine what is genuine, such as the game on that disc. If they used a central online public key, the console could potentially be hacked using a man-in-the-middle attack that would tell the console that arbitrary code was actually valid.


They can absolutely patch this with a firmware update by generating a new security key and flashing it to this chip, but the problem of being able to run existing disc-based games offline (as I outlined above) goes into a catch-22 state. If you change this key, all existing disc-based games will now be considered unauthorized code. Every game (both disc and digital) would also have to be patched online to work with the new security key. Trying to run a disc based game offline (without the latest title update that has the new keys) on a patched console would throw an error.

Right, but what would happen to say existing optical media?

For digital games they would have to reverify ownership I think. So the user has to do "restore licenses" with new keys/firmware. They can batch patch games on the store with new keys and require the latest firmware to run them too if somebody reinstalls.

Optical media would be like any other AACS device key compromise I guess. Firmware update required for newer discs.

if the person goes online and gets the firmware update then inserts the old disc it would still play, as you said it could potentially throw an error due to requiring new keys if they want to block homebrew entirely but new discs would have the revoked keys on their media key block meaning you can't run newer games unless you update the firmware.

They'll have to weigh doing this against the potential fallout of piracy vs the number of customer support issues they would face. Either way, this means people who are offline or on a firmware version that hasn't patched the new security key should be able to run whatever code they want. Having root-level access even means potentially installing modified (cracked) versions of the consoles later firmware revisions, as it is possible to do with the Switch and was popular on the PS3.

Yeah this has opened up the current PS5 to be able to run anything you want on the console offline, it's completely wide open. I'm hearing some saying this will be used for cheating online though and that's very unlikely to happen. They would just require mandatory updates to even be able to go online at all. Customer support issues would be minimal (just a firmware update) but they cannot fight piracy of older games anymore if the person chooses to pirate, it's entirely over for that.

 

[CLW]

What does this mean? Pirate any game and ability to play emulation roms?

 

[damidu]

these stuff usually don't amount to anything piracy-wise in today's always online, "broken without 5 months worth of patches" world. but homebrew , emulation stuff could be enticing
maybe good idea to buy another ps5 to keep on the side offline for this?

 

[Topher]

 

[asdasdasdbb]

What does this mean? Pirate any game and ability to play emulation roms?

More or less.

 

[jshackles]

For digital games they would have to reverify ownership I think. So the user has to do "restore licenses" with new keys/firmware. They can batch patch games on the store with new keys and require the latest firmware to run them too if somebody reinstalls.

Optical media would be like any other AACS device key compromise I guess. Firmware update required for newer discs.

if the person goes online and gets the firmware update then inserts the old disc it would still play, as you said it could potentially throw an error due to requiring new keys if they want to block homebrew entirely but new discs would have the revoked keys on their media key block meaning you can't run newer games unless you update the firmware.


Yeah this has opened up the current PS5 to be able to run anything you want on the console offline, it's completely wide open. I'm hearing some saying this will be used for cheating online though and that's very unlikely to happen. They would just require mandatory updates to even be able to go online at all. Customer support issues would be minimal (just a firmware update)

The only time this would really be an issue is if you went to the local store and bought a new PS5 (with let's call it the 2026 firmware) and an old game disc that was pressed pre-2026. You wouldn't be able to play the game until you connect the console to the internet and download the latest update for that game that would have the correct new security key. For most people, this isn't really a huge issue as they'd likely plan on doing that anyway. It's only going to affect the customers that can't or aren't willing to connect to the internet, which in extreme cases may legally require Sony to either re-issue corrected discs to affected customers or provide refunds in countries with strong consumer protection laws.

Online cheating shouldn't really be a problem unless Sony drags their heels on fixing the issue. Even if a root-level exploit was released today using this key, I'd guess it'd take homebrew developers a couple of weeks at a minimum to get working cheats running on the popular games. But I guess that also depends on how similar the PS5 games are to the PS4 games that have already been hacked and have available cheats. We would definitely see cheats available for cross-gen games the fastest. I suspect Sony would have this remedied long before it becomes an issue.

but they cannot fight piracy of older games anymore if the person chooses to pirate, it's entirely over for that.

The older firmware hacked PS4s can run newer games. In most cases, it's just that developers say "this game requires firmware 10.0 or later", but actually doesn't. Modifying the game to remove that check works most of the time. In cases where they do actually use features from the higher firmwares, hackers have been able to successfully backport newer games to work with older firmwares with a pretty good success rate. This used to be a much bigger issue when the newest PS4 firmware you could exploit was 5.50 or whatever, but now even firmware 12.50 consoles can be hacked. It's not like Sony is adding new instruction sets to the newer firmwares now that the console's development is more or less winding down.

So I would expect the tradition to continue. Especially if the rumors of the PS6 only being a few years out is true, feature development of the PS5 is probably also more or less complete.

 

[Mownoc]

Took a while but there it is. All consoles get exploited eventually, if there's enough interest lol.

 

[Windle Poons]

Sales of blu ray burners suddenly gone through the roof.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The only time this would really be an issue is if you went to the local store and bought a new PS5 (with let's call it the 2026 firmware) and an old game disc that was pressed pre-2026. You wouldn't be able to play the game until you connect the console to the internet and download the latest update for that game that would have the correct new security key. For most people, this isn't really a huge issue as they'd likely plan on doing that anyway.

If this leads to real piracy, people won't use discs. They'll just download the patched version of the game and use that.

 

[yurinka]

What does this mean?

As of now it's just a tweet from a random unknown account. So means nothing. In case it's real, it would help in the future to run pirate games and unoficial apps on PS5, and in a more distant future to help emulate PS5 once future PCs become capable of doing so in terms of horsepower.

 

[jshackles]

If this leads to real piracy, people won't use discs. They'll just download the patched version of the game and use that.

The above is in the context of actual legitimate paying customers. In that if they fix this by issuing a new security key, newer consoles won't be able to play old discs "out of the box". This will essentially create an online requirement for paying customers.

I agree that pirates won't use discs, except that I expect whatever exploit is created from this will likely use the disc drive as the delivery mechanism. Create an exploit, sign it with the legitimate security key, burn it to a disc, insert into the PS5 which will happily run whatever is on the disc.

 

[The_Mike]

If this news is accurate, this would be one of the first steps to making that happen. I'm personally less excited about the piracy aspect and more excited about the PS5's now inevitable ability to run emulation platforms and homebrew code. It'd still be a ways off I would think, but given the nature of the PS5 architecture I can imagine it would eventually be possible to run something like SteamOS on a PS5 or PS5 Pro.

Afaik keys got leaked years ago on PS3, but despite that Sony are trying to make the loophole and blocking the jailbreak software.

I did PS3 jailbreak and I recall it not being easy, and they keep doing firmware updates to make it hard to do.

But are most of the PS5 games not already available on pc? That's native support.

 

[DR3AM]

Sonys version of GamePass

 

[jshackles]

But are most of the PS5 games not already available on pc? That's native support.

A lot of them are, but there are also a lot of exclusives still (Astro Bot / Playroom, Death Stranding 2, Ghost of Yotei, Demon Souls Remake, that Silent Hill Spinoff) but also a few more planned (Intergalactic, Wolverine, Saros) that would potentially be playable by pirates day one. And that's not counting the PS4 games that still haven't made their way to PC - Gravity Rush, Bloodborne, MediEvil, Ratchet and Clank 2016, Knack (lol), and many more. These would all be playable on a hacked PS5.

It's definitely not as big of a pool of games as it was in previous generations thanks to games getting PC ports regularly, but it's still enough to incentivize people to pirate games, especially if they don't have a PC.

 

[lh032]

meh most probably ends up nothing as usual

 

[DeepEnigma]

My OG PS5 hasn't been plugged in since April after getting the Pro.

Let's goooo 60fps Bloodborne and other games locked behind archaic framerate caps.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Holy crap, Sony is having a worst end of year, than Ubisoft.

What exactly is happening at the end of this year that's terrible for Sony? Did i miss something?

 

[winjer]

What exactly is happening at the end of this year that's terrible for Sony? Did i miss something?

Read the first post.

 

[StereoVsn]

these stuff usually don't amount to anything piracy-wise in today's always online, "broken without 5 months worth of patches" world. but homebrew , emulation stuff could be enticing
maybe good idea to buy another ps5 to keep on the side offline for this?

Kind of tempting to get a new Slim and leave OG on its current firmware and off from internet.

But not sure if it's $500 tempting.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Read the first post.

I did...but the way it was written was as if more stuff happened already. Also how is any of that worse than Ubisoft?

 

[StereoVsn]

A lot of them are, but there are also a lot of exclusives still (Astro Bot / Playroom, Death Stranding 2, Ghost of Yotei, Demon Souls Remake, that Silent Hill Spinoff) but also a few more planned (Intergalactic, Wolverine, Saros) that would potentially be playable by pirates day one. And that's not counting the PS4 games that still haven't made their way to PC - Gravity Rush, Bloodborne, MediEvil, Ratchet and Clank 2016, Knack (lol), and many more. These would all be playable on a hacked PS5.

It's definitely not as big of a pool of games as it was in previous generations thanks to games getting PC ports regularly, but it's still enough to incentivize people to pirate games, especially if they don't have a PC.

I think future games will require a software patch so hacked PS5s are unlikely to run them.

 

[Antwix]

5 years ago this would've excited me. Now?

 

[Sintoid]

PC chads you'll need a Ferrari priced PC to emulate PS5 and win

 

[jshackles]

I think future games will require a software patch so hacked PS5s are unlikely to run them.

I mentioned above other consoles get around this by either a) using a lower firmware to install a cracked higher firmware that's still exploitable (Switch 1 does this) or b) games themselves being modified (backported) to be able to run on lower firmware versions (PS4 does this). Of course, none of that is guaranteed to be in place in time for Wolverine or Saros being released, just speculation.

 

[splattered]

I dont support piracy of newer games but what frustrates me even more about this is that people use hacked consoles for easy online cheating... expect any online multi-player game to get infinitely worse if this turns into a full homebrew situation

 

[StereoVsn]

I mentioned above other consoles get around this by either a) using a lower firmware to install a cracked higher firmware that's still exploitable (Switch 1 does this) or b) games themselves being modified (backported) to be able to run on lower firmware versions (PS4 does this). Of course, none of that is guaranteed to be in place in time for Wolverine or Saros being released, just speculation.

Hmm.. good points on this. Personally I couldn't care less about piracy (more games than time) but having ability to say boost PS4 games or run emulation and homebrew would be very cool.

 

[StereoVsn]

I dont support piracy of newer games but what frustrates me even more about this is that people use hacked consoles for easy online cheating... expect any online multi-player game to get infinitely worse if this turns into a full homebrew situation

Eh, I don't think folks would take the hacked consoles online. That's insta ban if detected.

 

[tylrdiablos]

People still say pwned?

The cool people do... wait, do people still say "cool" ?

 

[Trab-Pu-Kcip]

PS3 emulator incoming (?)

 

[Spukc]

Brb disconnecting internet from my ps5 pro

 

[kruis]

The cool people do... wait, do people still say "cool" ?

Just be yourself and you're good.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I haven't turned my ps5 on in nearly 1 month and I have no intention of playing on it again. I didn't sell it because the stupid Xmas discounts devalued it, I guess I'll wait for a jailbreak to release and sell it then.

 

[kruis]

This has happened before with the PS3 and PS4 and it less of a deal than people make it out to be. Yes, there'll be thousands of people who'll pirate every single PS4/PS5 game on the planet but the pirates won't be able to play newer games that require an updated firmware revision. No doubt online games will receive patches too that require the latest firmware. And once GTA6 is released a large number of those pirates are going to update their PS5 anyway. A minority of the people with a hacked PS5 are going to stick with it or even buy a second PS5 for new games.

 

[Puscifer]

Well. I might be getting a PS5 after all. Jailbreak!

Good thing I've barely touched my ps5 since ragnarok.

 

[peish]

Wonder if this is where they came from?

interesting... would this also mean Xbox and Nintendo keys soon?

Wonder if the platform holders cannot blacklist certain keys granted to certain publishers?

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[coffinbirth]

At least wait for independent conformation, ffs.

Microcode can be patched, considering how PS5 is online-involved, this leak (even if true) probably do way less harm than you think.

NO.
These are cryptographic keys, would need a hw revision.
Hence, pwned.

 

[Puscifer]

This has happened before with the PS3 and PS4 and it less of a deal than people make it out to be. Yes, there'll be thousands of people who'll pirate every single PS4/PS5 game on the planet but the pirates won't be able to play newer games that require an updated firmware revision. No doubt online games will receive patches too that require the latest firmware. And once GTA6 is released a large number of those pirates are going to update their PS5 anyway. A minority of the people with a hacked PS5 are going to stick with it or even buy a second PS5 for new games.

Lol wut.

The keys on the PS4 only helped hacking that existed but it wasn't on PS3 level. What Geohot eventually did that led to a lawsuit was engineer a solution that allowed any and every PS3 to run code as it was signed from Sony itself. Pandoras box was open from that pony point on but it remains to be seen

 

[Bitstream]

Wondering if this works on the PS5 Pro too, and how long before homebrew and mods are possible.... cause I'd love to do a CP2077 pro patch

 

[Magic Carpet]

PS6 release date no longer delayed?

 

[ReyBrujo]

interesting... would this also mean Xbox and Nintendo keys soon?

Wonder if the platform holders cannot blacklist certain keys granted to certain publishers?

No, they are completely different architectures, probably completely different groups. OG Switch scene is pretty much dead after the fusee gelee backdoor. And Switch 2 is much more secure without that door, there has some attempts but they only discovered that the encryption runs much deeper and that it's using DCLM (dual-core lockstep mechanism) which basically means every instruction is executed by two different processors, and the results are compared, fi they don't match the console halts immediately, so attacks like changing voltage that worked in the past can't be used as they need to be synchronized to perfection.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Well, I have a ps5 I was going to sell… haven't used it in a while. Maybe I'll hold on a bit more?

For someone like me that isn't a hacker (I hate anything with software that doesn't work easily) or anything like that and has zero interest in piracy, does this mean nothing?

My biggest concern is if this will impact online gaming for people.

 

[coffinbirth]

Took a while but there it is. All consoles get exploited eventually, if there's enough interest lol.

Happened four years ago, but sure.

 

[vodka-bull]

That means we are about to get a 60fps patch for RDR2, right? Right?

 

[Cre8]

PS5 gonna be the best selling console of all time.