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Monitoring the situation in Iran

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Another issue is that despite the conflict inside elites, the war allows them to stay united against a common enemy. I think if USA leaves, they will begin a war within Iranian elites.
 
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Three said:
Submarines were an example. They could build self powered bunkers for defence too. Iran hasn't really ever been an aggressor in its history. Saddam with the US invaded Iran after the US lost the oil control over Iran, yet iran lived with saddam as a neighbour for decades without war. Then the US decided to invade Iraq. Ironically that was its enemy and not the country it invaded.

They weren't even designated terrorists before when they had their embassy in other countries bombed, had state sponsored US-israel cyber attacks against civilian infrastructure in 2010, had a general killed on a visit to a neighbouring country, had scientists killed in car bomb terrorist attacks on the streets of their cities, had civilian ifrastructure attacked in 2020, 2025 and now 2026. Imagine this was US scientists, imagine this was US infrastructure and some other state trying to enforce these things. There would be hell to pay. But hatred breeds hatred.

Now we have an ordeal with the strait. In WW we (the UK) had a maritime blockade of Germany, laid sea mines to block all boats including food, that was to combat the aggressor/invader Germany in that conflict and justified. 700k people died of starvation in Germany due to it. At least humanitarian ships are let through the strait today. They weren't in Gaza mind.
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Ah, trust a fellow Brit to be a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist sympathiser.

Our US cousins, can you just use your nukes on us now? The UK has been lost.
 
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I don't see Iran attacking anything to do with water in the Gulf irrespective of what the US does, and if they do, they deserve this war. It would be insane to attack water supplies of countries that haven't even attacked you. Some have even hosted the leaders of their proxies. I don't think the sympathises realize how insane that would be. Even in the Ukraine war, neither side have really gone for water supplies. And in this case it would be like Ukraine hitting Kazakhstan's water facilities because of it's military connections to Russia. Ukraine hasn't even gone for Belorus which would be understandable. This isn't what countries do. This idea of well the Iranians are threatening to do it as a response so its your fault..well Russia has been threatening to militarily respond if NATO expanded so it's fine then I guess. This would be an act if war on the Gulf.
 
Tams said:
Ah, trust a fellow Brit to be a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist sympathiser.

Our US cousins, can you just use your nukes on us now? The UK has been lost.
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Stop being crazy. Lol the UK has some serious issues that need addressing but they slowly are. You can leave if ya want, surely?
 
DenchDeckard said:
Stop being crazy. Lol the UK has some serious issues that need addressing but they slowly are. You can leave if ya want, surely?
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We do have an alarming number of people who are either sympathisers of some evil ideologies or naïve, gullible idiots.

As for your comment about the UK armed forces being willing to do anything they could to save a fellow soldier, yes, absolutely. I very much doubt the political will for 'at any cost' would be there though.
 
Tams said:
Ah, trust a fellow Brit to be a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist sympathiser.

Our US cousins, can you just use your nukes on us now? The UK has been lost.
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"Anyone who disagrees with me is a terrorist sympathiser"

Yeah I dunno about the UK, but maybe you are the one who's lost.
 
BattleScar said:
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a terrorist sympathiser"

Yeah I dunno about the UK, but maybe you are the one who's lost.
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You should educate yourself about the UK then.

Tams is not wrong at all about the UK being lost.

Only rich fucks in the countryside removed completely from the common person would think the country is in a good place.

Im british, I have dual nationalities and I absolutely choose live in South Africa over the UK which was not what I would of said 5-10 years ago. And south africa is a shit hole in terms of economy and governance. It does however have some of the best weather, landscapes and nature.

Britannistan will rise.
 
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YCoCg said:
This whole "well they do it worse" shouldn't excuse that we usually have higher standards and expectations of the better nation.
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Its not an excuse, its about hypocrisy... the world isnt holding Islam to the same standards they wanna hold trump to.

Whats the point of these ethics and rules when the enemy is allowed to not meet those same standards.
 
StueyDuck said:
Its not an excuse, its about hypocrisy... the world isnt holding Islam to the same standards they wanna hold trump to.

Whats the point of these ethics and rules when the enemy is allowed to not meet those same standards.
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Because nobody expects shit from Islam and most of the Western world secretly does want Trump to fuck them up beyond repair, that's like asking why do we expect better from humans when pigs roll around in shit.
 
StueyDuck said:
You should educate yourself about the UK then.

Tams is not wrong at all about the UK being lost.

Only rich fucks in the countryside removed completely from the common person would think the country is in a good place.

Im british, I have dual nationalities and I absolutely choose live i South Africa over the UK which was not what I would of said 5-10 years ago.

Britannistan will rise.
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Yeah ok bro. Its funny, I wonder what happened 5-10 years ago that might have caused the UK to be materially worse off than before? There was a referendum or something. I forget what it was. Perhaps you could remind me.

Also, the rich people in the countryside are also complaining about the UK being down the drain.

But even if I take what you're saying to be true. Its only a consequence of Britain's (and the US's) own poor foreign policy decision-making in the past that's coming to bare fruit.
The Al Kamenei regime only came into power because the British and Americans decided they wanted 100% control over Iranian oil fields, and subsequently deposed what was a civil, modern and liberal Prime Minster in Mosadegh. This lead to the Shah, which led to the Islamic revolution, which led to the current terrorist regime.

Also, I should point out, when the US and West wage war in the Middle East, and create humanitarian crises, where exactly do you think the displaced civilians and innocents will end up going? Can't sail across the Atlantic to the US, so where else is left?

If you want to get rid of a totalitarian regime, perhaps one should put a bit more effort into planning it out, and handling issues like the Strait of Hormuz, and the inevitable humanitarian crises, before launching the missiles?
 
BattleScar said:
Yeah ok bro. Its funny, I wonder what happened 5-10 years ago that might have caused the UK to be materially worse off than before? There was a referendum or something. I forget what it was. Perhaps you could remind me.

Also, the rich people in the countryside are also complaining about the UK being down the drain.

But even if I take what you're saying to be true. Its only a consequence of Britain's (and the US's) own poor foreign policy decision-making in the past that's coming to bare fruit.
The Al Kamenei regime only came into power because the British and Americans decided they wanted 100% control over Iranian oil fields, and subsequently deposed what was a civil, modern and liberal Prime Minster in Mosadegh. This lead to the Shah, which led to the Islamic revolution, which led to the current terrorist regime.

Also, I should point out, when the US and West wage war in the Middle East, and create humanitarian crises, where exactly do you think the displaced civilians and innocents will end up going? Can't sail across the Atlantic to the US, so where else is left?

If you want to get rid of a totalitarian regime, perhaps one should put a bit more effort into planning it out, and handling issues like the Strait of Hormuz, and the inevitable humanitarian crises, before launching the missiles?
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While I don't disagree with your disciption of events, you do what far too many people do and treat people in the Middle East as if they have the IQ of a slug. Irrespective of what the West had done in the region, the way these regimes behave are of their own making. They don't execute people for homosexuality or wearing the wrong clothes because of the West. So because of the Shah, people living there decided that they should go back to living as they did in 500AD. They wanted to do this. They aren't children.
 
Tams said:
We do have an alarming number of people who are either sympathisers of some evil ideologies or naïve, gullible idiots.

As for your comment about the UK armed forces being willing to do anything they could to save a fellow soldier, yes, absolutely. I very much doubt the political will for 'at any cost' would be there though.
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StueyDuck said:
You should educate yourself about the UK then.

Tams is not wrong at all about the UK being lost.

Only rich fucks in the countryside removed completely from the common person would think the country is in a good place.

Im british, I have dual nationalities and I absolutely choose live in South Africa over the UK which was not what I would of said 5-10 years ago. And south africa is a shit hole in terms of economy and governance. It does however have some of the best weather, landscapes and nature.

Britannistan will rise.
Click to expand...

I'm not well off, I have a decent job. I'm in loads of debt. I hate some shit that's been going on in the UK but this country is amazing man. I'm sorry you hate it so much but no other country is like the UK. If you love music etc, our smelting pot of culture is incredible.

UK is amazing just as much as it is shit.
ChuckeRearmed said:

Absolute cinema
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Terrifying, absolutely terrifying.
 
Madserb2023 said:
While I don't disagree with your disciption of events, you do what far too many people do and treat people in the Middle East as if they have the IQ of a slug. Irrespective of what the West had done in the region, the way these regimes behave are of their own making. They don't execute people for homosexuality or wearing the wrong clothes because of the West. So because of the Shah, people living there decided that they should go back to living as they did in 500AD. They wanted to do this. They aren't children.
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Yes, but to deny that top-down influence and/or propaganda does not play a part is nonsensical.

To say that the Iranian people unilaterally decided they wanted to live under oppressive 5th Century conditions is doing exactly the same thing, but in the opposite direction. Perhaps without US/British interference, Iran would have remained a cosmopolitan, progressive society to this day, or then again perhaps not. We don't know the coulda, woulda, shoulda. What we do know is, that the US/UK DID intervene and there were direct consequences to that intervention.

The same thing happened again with Bin Laden and the Taliban during the Cold War too. This isn't the only time western foreign policy objectives have created an unforseen monster that has paid us back later in blood.
 
Is he implying he is going to nuke them if they don't open the straight? Is that what he wants? I thought he didn't care about the straight?
 
BattleScar said:
Yes, but to deny that top-down influence and/or propaganda does not play a part is nonsensical.

To say that the Iranian people unilaterally decided they wanted to live under oppressive 5th Century conditions is doing exactly the same thing, but in the opposite direction. Perhaps without US/British interference, Iran would have remained a cosmopolitan, progressive society to this day, or then again perhaps not. We don't know the coulda, woulda, shoulda. What we do know is, that the US/UK DID intervene and there were direct consequences to that intervention.

The same thing happened again with Bin Laden and the Taliban during the Cold War too. This isn't the only time western foreign policy objectives have created an unforseen monster that has paid us back later in blood.
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They aren't idiots which you seem to think they are. For Iran to turn into a theocracy, the conditions had to be there in the first place. It would be nonsensical to believe that you can become like Iran or Afghanistan through outside interference, mainly because most countries that have experienced the same thing haven't. There are very few countries that haven't been invaded or oppressed but they didn't go from cosmopolitan to killing anyone remotely liberal overnight. Ukraine and pretty much every country around Russia should be like Afghanistan by now. I am 99% that Bhutan with it's happy index wouldn't turn into a Buddhist Caliphate executing everyone if they were invaded. So many countries in South America and South Asia have experienced the same thing. Chile had a dictator forced upon them by the West but they haven't turned into anything like this.
 
For awhile I've just been more upset that Republicans haven't been trying to reign this fucking psycho in. There have been some outspoken voices, but they are so few and far between. I'm not saying nukes would be used, but hypothetically if Trump seriously ordered a nuclear strike on Iran, I don't know if anyone down the chain would be like "No, we're not doing this."
 
No need to use nukes. Conventional arms are enough to completely dismantle the energy infrastructure of a country if you have uncontested air supremacy.

Turn the power off and you end up with another Afghanistan.
 
Critical Hit said:
I never cease to be amazed by people who still take his posts and ramblings seriously. But then again, that's exactly what he relies on.
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I never cease to be amazed by people who continue to make excuses for him. Serious or not, the leader of the free world should never be saying half the shit he says on social media.
 
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DenchDeckard said:
I'm not well off, I have a decent job. I'm in loads of debt. I hate some shit that's been going on in the UK but this country is amazing man. I'm sorry you hate it so much but no other country is like the UK. If you love music etc, our smelting pot of culture is incredible.

UK is amazing just as much as it is shit.

Terrifying, absolutely terrifying.
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I lived abroad for almost a decade and came back to a country that I only partially recognise. Quite a lot of what I'd espoused as great about the UK was absent.

I'm lucky in that I live in a rural area where little has changed, but even going into the local big town is shocking, never mind the local city.
 
Madserb2023 said:
They aren't idiots which you seem to think they are. For Iran to turn into a theocracy, the conditions had to be there in the first place. It would be nonsensical to believe that you can become like Iran or Afghanistan through outside interference, mainly because most countries that have experienced the same thing haven't.
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I'm not calling them idiots at all. Undoubtedly, they are culpable too - I'm not trying to deny or absolve them of any responsibility. However, the West cannot also absolve itself of any responsibility and say "Well, they would have ended up like this anyway". How do you know that?

If a nation is in the process of changing for the better - sharing more modern, progressivist, democratic ideas, and then you decide to intervene in the middle of that transformation, it can quite easily send things backwards. Arming insurgents or militia to have more power than they otherwise would have to enable a coup d'etat, for example. Actions have consequences. We might have prevented a staunch, secular ally in Iran, if we had not intervened. Maybe you could argue things might have turned out the same. But us in the West deciding to get rid of a democratic, progressive leader because they wanted control of Iranian oil, absolutely had a hand in altering the course of history.

Madserb2023 said:
There are very few countries that haven't been invaded or oppressed but they didn't go from cosmopolitan to killing anyone remotely liberal overnight.
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That depends. Did we give

Madserb2023 said:
Ukraine and pretty much every country around Russia should be like Afghanistan by now. I am 99% that Bhutan with it's happy index wouldn't turn into a Buddhist Caliphate executing everyone if they were invaded.
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Forgive me, but if Ukraine underwent a Russia-sponsored regime change following the invasion, do you think the resulting Ukraine would be particularly pro-West and liberal? The situation is also different because Ukraine shares a land border with Russia.
The Middle East is very far removed from Western Nations - particularly the US. Unless you keep an occupying force active in the region and allow at a minimum decades for progressivism to take root, things can be undone quite easily.
Its easy to foment hatred against an occupying nation.

Madserb2023 said:
So many countries in South America and South Asia have experienced the same thing. Chile had a dictator forced upon them by the West but they haven't turned into anything like this.
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If they're under dictatorship, then that only holds true for now.
 
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Madflavor said:
I never cease to be amazed by people who continue to make excuses for him. Serious or not, the leader of the free world should never be saying half the shit he says on social media.
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What I find interesting is that people seem shocked by the bad taste, the lack of decorum aspect of it, more than the action itself.

Putin can try and annex Ukraine so long as he calmly calls it euphemistically "a special military operation" not an invasion!

People handwave off Ayatollahs exhorting their obedient masses to chant "Death to..." nations, while attempting to acquire nuclear weapons and the ballistic tech to deploy them at range, but Trump talking shit is beyond the pale!

Stop with the mirror fallacy. Your mistake is assuming that moral supremacy is a deterrent.

I'd rather have world leaders talking mad shit online than sending their armed militias and forces in to enforce their wills 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. You're putting lipstick onto the particularly monstrous pig that is geo-politics.
 
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