You realize you're paying twice for a digital product?
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Is Skylanders the most vile kid exploitation this industry has had?
- Thread starter etiolate
- Start date
You realize you're paying twice for a digital product?
IdreamofHIME
Member
My nephews think it's the best thing ever.
Haunted
Member
No real reason to follow all the kids games out there if you're not a parent. It's a new Spyro game (that could be a more familiar name).
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-skylanders-spyros-adventure/17-5098/
That couldn't be further from the truth.
Yes, the Skylanders characters are in the game in the disc. But what you are buying with the figure is not the digital version of a character, you are buying a figure and playing a digital version of that character.
It may not make sense to those who haven't played the game, but it is the attachment to the characters that makes this special. This is why my nephews each by themselves the same figure, so that they can customize and play as their own character.
Not in a world with in-app purchases for games aimed at kids, and designed to milk as much money as possible for little effort. This IS exploitation, but it's along the lines of some toy from the 80s or 90s, a fun product with a very novel, but costly, gimmick. It's more of a shame that you're buying detailed statues than figurines you can actually play with, but I guess most kids won't care to play with little statues enough to accidentally break the electronics inside.
I'm not a parent but I'd imagine this an opportunity for a parent to teach their kids about how not every desire of a child is obtainable. Seriously, listen to yourself: Toys are exploitations. You go sell your 12 year old daughter as a whore to 40 year old males who come from all over the world looking for sexual gratification from a child just so you can have some money to feed the rest of your family and then com back and tell me what right a foolish parent who can't say "enough" to some of the desires of their child has to even mutter the world exploitation.
This isn't exploitation. It's a savvy business model for those who can afford it. Why does it have to be priced for "everyone"?
PatrickLyons
Member
I don't think it's exploitation. It does seem like a truly terrible value proposition though. But this industry always needs early adopters with no sense or impulse control, so I can't really complain.
But the figures aren't play action figures are they now? They are just designed to be activation vessels. You can't do the things you do in game with the characters they represent with the figures in real life. There is no articulation or anything. They are statues standing in a pose. You are paying twice for content. You can try to argue yourself out if it, blind yourself to it, but the company is playing you this way.
Uh, both the child prostitution and Skylanders are exploitation, but of different things and at different levels. Trust me, I'm not comparing Activision to a Cambodian Sex Trade Kingpin.
IdreamofHIME
Member
See for me this is a big part of it. I love seeing my nephews get attached to these characters and build them up. The base game plays a big part in that coz it's so enjoyable they keep coming back for more.
I'd rather spend £200 on this one game than keep buying the licensed crap that most videogame publishers are making for younger kids.
I'd say buying the rights to a major kids movie or TV show and then making a POS Shovelware game that kids will buy just because of the license is more Vile then this amazing marketing coup.
see, that's the thing they're selling this somewhat to kids but moreso to nostalgic, young gamer dads. Kids want 'em coz they're cool and dad's OK because he remembers how cool pokemon was.
Fine job of marketing, sad and perfect at the same time.
Mr_Appleby
Member
honestly i think this is less exploitative than the in-game display of items that need to be purchased to use ie. Burnout Paradise showing cars i *could buy* when choosing what one to drive. My 8 year old nephew doesn't really understand that it's my own real money being spent and so I pull the ethernet whenever he's playing burnout. If we had to go to a store and spend cash he'd understand. Oh and then it hassles you to sign back in whenever you accidentally go over the Shop page of the in-game menu. BP's whole model is horrifically intrusive and extremely annoying.
ShironRedshift
Member
Hmm, is it really a terrible value, though? I mean, compared to most other DLC today that is. It seems to have two significant pluses compared to a lot of DLC:
1.) These figures will work with any copy of the game. In other words, you can buy a figure and then, in addition to being able to use it with your own system, you can also take it and use it on your friend's system as well, without them needing to have purchased that figure as well or anything. The figure's are also cross-platform, so even if you bought it for use on your 3DS or something, and your friend has the 360 version, you can still use it on both. You can't do that type of thing with most DLC. But much more significantly, this directly leads in another point, which applies to practically no other DLC/unlock keys and such among the big hits today:
2.) The ability to resale a figure once you're done with it. Unlike those map packs in Call of Duty that you might eventually tire of and stop playing but still be stuck with regardless, once you've had your fill of a figure, you can sell it on eBay or whatever and make money back on it. That right there seems to be add a great value proposition, at least as far as DLC and such goes. That being the case, I can't really call this a terrible value proposition compared to other DLC and such these days, as unlike most, it's not stuck associated to you gamertag or whatever after you buy it for the rest of time, and you can actually make money back on it, so, at least when thinking about it like that, this could actually be considered a more consumer/value friendly of DLC (again though, as far as that type of thing goes, but still).
My son plays with them outside of the game, but that doesn't really factor into my opinion of them.
They aren't activation vessels, they are the vessels themselves. Everything you do in the game with the digital representation of the character is stored in the figure itself. The game has no data about your character which is why my son can take his figures to someone else's game and play with his character and bring whatever experience he gains home with him.etiolate said:
So because they are statues, they are worthless and child exploitation. But if you could articulate them that would make it fine?etiolate said:
No, I am paying once for a character that my son can use and customize to his leisure (in game). Without the figure there is no character in game because the game has no way to store the information. I'm not trying to argue anything. Skylanders is popular for a (good) reason and I am enjoying the ride along with my family.etiolate said:
To Activision's credit there's quite a lot of game there.
This is just back to the old question of what ought to be bundled with a full-price game, which is always a muddled question given that games with no paid DLC also provide a vast range of value propositions. Portal 2 provided a much different quantity of content in comparison to Skyrim, yet cost the same amount (for console gamers on launch day), just to pick two games at random from among the top two games in GAF's GOTY awards.
This is just back to the old question of what ought to be bundled with a full-price game, which is always a muddled question given that games with no paid DLC also provide a vast range of value propositions. Portal 2 provided a much different quantity of content in comparison to Skyrim, yet cost the same amount (for console gamers on launch day), just to pick two games at random from among the top two games in GAF's GOTY awards.
Str0ngStyle
Member
Not really. I mean I think we lived through worse (Virtual Pets, Bratz)
The Faceless Master
Member
wow, so the stats save to the statue and the statues work cross-platform?
this is pretty fucking genius!
this is pretty fucking genius!
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
the console versions are effectively the same game, the 3DS game is a bit more of a platformer, where the console version is a dungeon hack and slash, but even with the 3DS version being a totally different experience,the levels are still transferable both ways.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, it's exploitative in new and innovative ways. But that's capitalism for ya.
GhostWriter24
Member
We were all the same way with Pokemon, cmon. Let the kids have their fun.
Yeah, older gamers were saying "What the fuck is this ripoff bullshit?!"
I know, because I was one of them. I've reconciled myself to it since.
It's kinda hard for gamers my age to criticize considering how many quarters we pumped into arcade machines.
blame space
Banned
man the way parents come in or call about these things.. always with this defeated look on their face or sound in their voice.. "Skylanders? Do you have Skylanders?"
makes me want to apologize to my parents about the whole pokemon thing.
makes me want to apologize to my parents about the whole pokemon thing.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
How is this anything like Pokemon? You never needed more than 1 cart to catch them all. (Hell, with glitches in the old games, you never actually had to trade, either.)
Hey, this is kind of cool. It sounds like the game is decent enough, and the figurine gimmick is a really clever application of technology to the market. It's not really exploitative if the kids are having fun with it; they're competing for the same discretionary spending that might otherwise go to any other game, toy, or action figure.
GhostWriter24
Member
If you were one of the billion kids who collected Pokemon cards you'd know how expensive a hobby it was.
blame space
Banned
I haven't played the games.. Can someone who has provide insight as to how bullshit this whole thing is? I mean at least pokemon cards reminded me of tried and true sports cards, plus there was a game (!)
is there actual content associated with these toys? is there anything beyond the gimmick?
is there actual content associated with these toys? is there anything beyond the gimmick?
nincompoop
Banned
No, on-disc DLC is.
Dark Octave
Banned
OP is jealous he didn't think of the idea first.
Every last person in this forum at least wanted something just as "vile" and "exploitative" when we were kids. A lot of us got them too.
Think about this; your grandma bought your mom wooden blocks with hard earned money and she loved them. Wooden blocks.
Every last person in this forum at least wanted something just as "vile" and "exploitative" when we were kids. A lot of us got them too.
Think about this; your grandma bought your mom wooden blocks with hard earned money and she loved them. Wooden blocks.
When playing the game you must place and leave your character on the scanner device (the so-called "Portal of Power"). Whenever you remove your character they vanish from the game (the game pauses); to continue you must put a character back on the scanner. If you put the same character back on it just appears again with the same HP, and the game continues just as if it was paused. If you put another character on it will appear with the last HP it had on this playthrough of a particular level. Thus, if you have two characters and one get to 50% health, you may swap in the other at max health. If that character gets to 0 health it "must rest" and you have to swap in the other one, which will come in with 50% health again.
In this sense it's very much like Pokemon. You have a collection of critters that you may employ through a level, and as they attack or take damage you may swap them out at your convenience; whatever states or damage they take will be retained until you put them back. When you head back to a "hub" all of your characters are healed.
It's AGAIN like Pokemon in that each character gains experience; there's a simple but robust RPG system in place. As they gain experience they can be customized with new skills and stats; each character has multiple paths of development that the player can choose as they level up. You also have the standard equipment system, so you can buff their stats by silly hats (HELLOOOO TF2) and other gear.
What's more, all of these customizations are saved right into the plastic figurine, so if little Jimmy, who has been playing on your 360, totes his Stealth Elf to the neighbor's PS3 copy of Skylanders he'll have all the same skills and gear.
Figures are classed by elements (again, blatantly like Pokemon) and certain areas of the game favor certain elemental characters. There are something like 6 elements and 4 characters per element, so quite a bit of possible variety. Some areas of the game are only accessible if you have a character of a particular element: on one hand, this gates away content; on the other hand, it provides more value to collecting the characters.
And there's more: You can also buy entire new levels, in the form of little miniature plastic stages that sit on top of the "Portal of Power".
Dark Octave
Banned
Evil how?
How about you be quiet and not enable Nintendo. Goddamn imagine they did this with Pokemon.
TCG != Video Game
They also appeal to different groups, with overlap for the kids who're just big fans of the franchise. You can make that kind of comparison when Skylanders starts coming out with merchandise unrelated to the game, but the Pokémon games have always been good about being able to complete everything with one cartridge per kid.
I guess it's also important to note that the cards have never had anything to do with the games, aside from the odd cross-promotion here and there with new sets. The two are separate entities entirely, unlike the Skylanders figurines. The TCG has always been about exploitation, but not through video games as is the case with Skylanders.
Skylanders is basically on-disc DLC done through toys which allows the company to control supply and demand in a way that DLC cannot.
pieatorium
Member
Arcades
FairXchange
Member
I'm collecting the figures. I think the idea is genius and the characters have a distinct look, feel and difference both in the toy and digital forms they manifest.
It's all around fun, and it's pretty fun to storm a Walmart in the morning and pull the Skylanders out of the employee's hands before they even get to stock them knowing that they'd be gone by 'noon.
It's all around fun, and it's pretty fun to storm a Walmart in the morning and pull the Skylanders out of the employee's hands before they even get to stock them knowing that they'd be gone by 'noon.
I honestly read your reasoning in the OP through about three times and I just fail to see how this is exploitation. Another poster made the valid case that worse, the game's guilty of being a poor value but even that's debatable. I mean whose being exploited here? The Syro IP? Action figures? I don't think it's accurate to say children are being exploited. They're being marketed to. That's not exploitation. At best, you can say the parent's are being exploited but then you would have to say "Child(ren) _____ Industry" is guilty of it as well because kids don't are the target consumers and they have no money but that of their parents hence the kids are the exploiters... not the game.
blame space
Banned
so it's a memory card/character that acts as in-game content.. what keeps the kids wanting the figures?
I guess what I'm saying is, what's the end-game here? Why do kids want more of them? is the game itself infinite? Does it just not end, providing a stage for all these sought-after toy add-ons?
I guess what I'm saying is, what's the end-game here? Why do kids want more of them? is the game itself infinite? Does it just not end, providing a stage for all these sought-after toy add-ons?
Why are people still playing Diablo 2?
EDIT: I guess I should answer the question directly: The game does end, as in there is a main story and you can defeat it. On the other hand, there are other areas you cannot access without certain characters (or their elements, to be precise), so there's an incentive to level up new stuff. But in the end it's just the logic of collect-a-thon games, very similar to Pokemon (people certainly don't stop playing those games when they defeat the final boss) or Diablo.
30+ characters, $6-7 each, all with subtle/minor differences in play style.. it just rubs me the wrong way. the saving grace is that figures generally are that expensive even without a chip built in. it's just a shame you can't move their arms or legs. It's smart, but it just feels wrong to me. Maybe it's just because I expect them to be exploitative. If people are fine paying $300+ for a $50 game it's their prerogative, but damn if it isn't the smartest way to sell what amounts to dlc.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
When I first heard about it I figured that it would be dead on arrival.
Turns out that kids will buy literally any collectible anything, at least for a little while.
Turns out that kids will buy literally any collectible anything, at least for a little while.
charlequin
Banned
Wow. This is actually a lot cooler than I thought it was.
TheUnknownForce
Member
Each character is distinct in ability and content. They have small backgrounds, two normal attacks, a myriad of upgrades, and special moves to obtain in-game. The game also has Heroic Challenges which require the character to be used to unlock. There are pathways which can only be accessed by particular types of Skylanders. In parts of the game, you find Soul Gems which allow Skylanders special abilities; these also act as trailers for the character in question, advertising the character in-game.
The game has 20-some odd levels, with 4 extra levels using the adventure packs. There are 32 characters total.
The game is finite, but the game is like the Gauntlet games. You want to build up and play as every character, and since they all look pretty neat in-game, it attracts children to get their favorite.