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[hamchan]

Looks like the story is shit again! Not like my expectations were very high after XIII but it's such a shame the series is in this state now after such a glorious run it's had from FFVI to XII. I'll still buy it anyway for the battle system and graphics.

 

[Satoho]

*sigh* FFXIII-two what am I gonna do with you...

 

[Riposte]

More reviews which disregard the sharp drop in encounter design. Partially explains why JRPGs generally get good scores in the first place.

I wonder how Game Informer dude thinks combat is more entertaining.

 

[Wilsongt]

*adds user to hate list*

He's overly cynical. You'll learn that real quick. His tag should be Mr. Negativity instead of Jett's.

 

[SomeDude]

nevermind

 

[jimmy5150]

I love how the first 2 quotes completely contradict each other.

Seriously.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Yeah, now if you want to argue with him, you have to actually put in some effort instead of quoting his tag.

His bad taste in anything FFXIII related is cancelled out for good MGS taste.

 

[Derrick01]

The game informer excerpt confuses me. The story of a linear story driven RPG is apparently embarrassing but it still gets an 8. I mean I know the lowest score in GI's scale is a 7 but I can't say that it doesn't confuse me a little.

 

[06nbarnhill]

Eh interesting to see reviews. Will buy eventually either way.....once its 39.99 or lower.

 

[WickedLaharl]

*************************'s review is the best.

 

[iammeiam]

The RPGSite review makes me feel a little better about preordering the CE. I'm still expecting it to be bomb-priced within, like, a month, but on the off chance it's not I don't want to lose out on the soundtrack.

 

[survivor]

I'm having my doubts that any review will exceed the depth's of the RPGSite one but we will see. The only thing I want to find out from the new reviews is the localization(?) thing Kagari hinted at in the official thread.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

*Reading* reviews? It's 2012 people! Kagari, when does your FFXIII-2 podcast go up? Audio or bust

I'll probably pick FFXIII-2 up given the Target deal next week and considering there's nothing else I'm looking forward to until Dragon's Dogma, but I really should be saving for the Vita... decisions decisions

It will be interesting to see what all the reviews say

 

[Reveirg]

I actually loved XIII's story, should I still be worried about XIII-2's quality in that regard? Is it as bad as Tales/Star Ocean games?

 

[Kagari]

*Reading* reviews? It's 2012 people! Kagari, when does your FFXIII-2 podcast go up? Audio or bust

I'll probably pick FFXIII-2 up given the Target deal next week and considering there's nothing else I'm looking forward to until Dragon's Dogma, but I really should be saving for the Vita... decisions decisions

It will be interesting to see what all the reviews say

We're recording tomorrow.

 

[Surreal]

I was hoping they'd hit it out of the park this time... guess I'll pass on this one too.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

I love how the first 2 quotes completely contradict each other.

Seriously which it? I'm confused too

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Getting good reviews. Only thing I hate is the cliffhanger ending, but I guess they want you to buy the DLC. ;/

Anyway, can't wait to get it.

Meh kinda wish I didn't know there was a cliffhanger ending at all. Pretty much ruined the surprise there.

Edit: But to be honest if I really like the game I will have something to really look forward to beyond whats on the disk. Can't effin wait either way.

 

[Perfo]

PlayStation Life (5/10) closes the review with this:

"Those who despised Final Fantasy XIII have no reason to even attempt the sequel; those that did should take it as highly recommended. If you play RPGs with your focus on plot, characters, and storytelling, you’re probably best to drop this game off your radar, unless you’re cool with it taking 20 hours to get good. If you play it for interesting progress systems and combat, it becomes interesting close to the five-hour mark and for the most part, holds its own. It’s a hard game to review, because you’re gonna get sacks of hatemail no matter what. Praise this game and you’re “contributing to the downfall of the series,” slam it and “you just didn’t get it, man.” Millions of people will fall very passionately on both sides of this one. For me, Final Fantasy XIII-2 lands right smack in the middle."

+ Lightning-fast battle system with a highly addictive growth interface.
+ Monster allies and the time travel system are awesome.

- Perhaps the worst story in Final Fantasy history.
-Keeps on switching what type of game it wants to be, inconsistently directed.

Whatever...

 

[DR2K]

Meh kinda wish I didn't know there was a cliffhanger ending at all. Pretty much ruined the surprise there.

It's like being told about the the punch coming right at your throat. Surprise ruined, but at least you were able to brace yourself.

 

[Derrick01]

PlayStation Life (5/10) closes the review with this:



Whatever...

What's wrong with what was written there?

 

[Femmeworth]

I just noticed Metacritic's summary for the game.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 is a direct sequel to FFXIII, and will once again star lead protagonist Lightning.

They be trollin'.

 

[JerzeyDevil]

I really have a hard time taking these scores seriously. XIII-2 is like a bad anime, literally. Played the demo for a friend of mine who isnt much of a gamer these days, but grewup with ff6 as his favorite game.
His response was " THIS is what happened to final fantasy?! why does this moogle sound like this?! what the hell, man. you only get these 2 awful people in your party? REALLY? "

I know they improved upon XIII, but godamn, those character designs...that writing. Such a far cry from FFXII, which was such a classy game. Really hoping Versus can deliver the goods..

 

[Perfo]

What's wrong with what was written there?

This.

Praise this game and you’re “contributing to the downfall of the series,” slam it and “you just didn’t get it, man.” Millions of people will fall very passionately on both sides of this one. For me, Final Fantasy XIII-2 lands right smack in the middle."

"Oh man, can't say if the game is good or not... let's state it's... both good and bad so I don't make anyone mad!"

lol ~

Anyway it seems IGN today together with their exclusive review will have a live-stream of the first hours going on their website:

Final Fantasy XIII-2 is looking to be a big improvement over XIII. IGN will be unveiling its exclusive review on Friday, January 27. Leading up to the review, tune in for a live stream of the first couple hours of the Japanese RPG.

What: IGN's Final Fantasy XIII-2 Live Stream
When: Friday, January 27, 11:00AM-1:00PM Pacific
Where: Right here. Bookmark this page.
Who: IGN's Ryan Clements, Daemon Hatfield, and Colin Moriarty will be walking you through the early hours of the game.
Why: Get your questions answered and be the first to see IGN's exclusive review. Oh, and we'll also be giving away posters, a Lightning figuring, and a copy of the Collector's Edition. Just tweet your questions @IGN with #FFXIII2.

What time is that in Europe guys?

 

[Riposte]

The game informer excerpt confuses me. The story of a linear story driven RPG is apparently embarrassing but it still gets an 8. I mean I know the lowest score in GI's scale is a 7 but I can't say that it doesn't confuse me a little.

No matter how story-driven a JRPG wants to be, it is ultimately about the combat system. Since combat, not watching cutscenes, is the main activity.

 

[Derrick01]

This.



"Oh man, can't say if the game is good or not... let's state it's... both good and bad so I don't make anyone mad!"

lol ~

Oh ok I see what you're saying. I have to think the reviewer giving it a 5 had to know he'd catch shit for that though, even if 5 is in the middle of what the scale is supposed to be. I agree I don't like the balancing act though. Have the stones to pick a side.

 

[DR2K]

No matter how story-driven a JRPG wants to be, it is ultimately about the combat system. Since combat, not watching cutscenes, is the main activity.

Plot's are very integral to an RPG experience, just as important as the gameplay. It should never be one or the other though.

 

[Phonomezer]

"Worst story in Final Fantasy history"

Surely it couldn't get worse than FFXIII...

 

[BocoDragon]

I really have a hard time taking these scores seriously. XIII-2 is like a bad anime, literally. Played the demo for a friend of mine who isnt much of a gamer these days, but grewup with ff6 as his favorite game.
His response was " THIS is what happened to final fantasy?! why does this moogle sound like this?! what the hell, man. you only get these 2 awful people in your party? REALLY? "

I know they improved upon XIII, but godamn, those character designs...that writing. Such a far cry from FFXII, which was such a classy game. Really hoping Versus can deliver the goods..

Partially it is bad anime.. Perhaps worse than it was in years past. (although that's the basic direction for the XIII games: schmaltzy shonen melodrama... Not necessarily FF as a whole).

But to a certain extent, it has always been melodramatic anime.. Even back in FF6. It's just that it was masked by the limits of the technology of the time (allowing for more subjective interpretation of the story that could be adapted to a variety of personal tastes)... And partially it was masked by the fact that we were probably kids back then. Some of us have grown into people for whom anime is this repulsive thing... And some of us have not. (I'm nearing 30, and the sensibilities of anime don't offend me one bit. I just want the plotting to be smarter.)

I do want more than anime tropes. I think future FFs will deliver that.. But I think no one should really be shocked that FF is often essentially anime. It's always been part of the DNA of the series, and shouldn't be used as evidence, in itself, that FF has gone off the rails.

 

[Perfo]

"Worst story in Final Fantasy history"

Surely it couldn't get worse than FFXIII...

Someone states is better, someone worse, I think on this you should not trust any review and just judge by yourself based on your taste and expectations. I personally enjoyed XIII's story so I don't think this will be any different. Plus I enjoy convoluted plots.

Partially it is bad anime.. Perhaps worse than it was in years past. (although that's the basic direction for the XIII games: schmaltzy shonen melodrama... Not necessarily FF as a whole).

But to a certain extent, it has always been melodramatic anime.. Even back in FF6. It's just that it was masked by the limits of the technology of the time (allowing for more subjective interpretation of the story that could be adapted to a variety of personal tastes)... And partially it was masked by the fact that we were probably kids back then. Some of us have grown into people for whom anime is this repulsive thing... And some of us have not. (I'm nearing 30, and the sensibilities of anime don't offend me one bit. I just want the plotting to be smarter.)

I do want more than anime tropes. I think future FFs will deliver that.. But I think no one should really be shocked that FF is often essentially anime. It's always been part of the DNA of the series, and shouldn't be used as evidence, in itself, that FF has gone off the rails.

This.

 

[Kagari]

"Worst story in Final Fantasy history"

Surely it couldn't get worse than FFXIII...

It does.

 

[Riposte]

Plot's are very integral to an RPG experience, just as important as the gameplay. It should never be one or the other though.

Hardly. Plot is just a piece of the atmosphere which coats the mechanics (combat). Don't forget to the mention music/sound design, graphics/art design, world-building/themes, and directing/scene composition. In the history of JRPGs the plot's importance is usually diminished even when only considering the atmosphere. This makes sense given these games are dozens of hour long and all about setting up combat scenarios.

 

[Perfo]

Don't forget to the mention music, graphics/art design, world-building, and directing/scene composition.

And Final Fantasy still manage to do this better than many others.

 

[Dark Schala]

No matter how story-driven a JRPG wants to be, it is ultimately about the combat system. Since combat, not watching cutscenes, is the main activity.

This is the way that I've started to approach a lot of RPGs lately. To get a lot of satisfaction out of an RPG for me now, the combat has to be fun and well-designed for the entire length of the game.

Narrative is secondary.

...graphics are, well... I don't really care, but I do treasure stylization over photorealism.

 

[The Xtortionist]

And Final Fantasy still manage to do this better than many others.

Cocoon was horribly put together imo. There was no geographical reference for where you are at any given point, and no indication of how most areas connect to each other. Compared to Spira or (especially) Ivalice, it was a massive disappointment.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Hardly. Plot is just a piece of the atmosphere which coats the mechanics (combat). Don't forget to the mention music/sound design, graphics/art design, world-building/themes, and directing/scene composition. In the history of JRPGs the plot's importance is usually diminished even when only considering the atmosphere. This makes sense given these games are dozens of hour long and all about setting up combat scenarios.

There were sections in FFVII where there were hours between combat scenarios...

 

[Grisby]

It does.

Damn. Was hoping there would be a shred of good stuff in there. I miss the FF sakaguchi days so much.

 

[GhostWriter24]

PlayStation Life (5/10) closes the review with this:



Whatever...

Who in the fuck is writing their reviews. "Get good"? Is the guy in fifth grade or?

 

[Riposte]

And Final Fantasy still manage to do this better than many others.

Maybe one day the series will have games worthy of all this superficial dressing up. And no, having a tighter plot isn't what I'm talk about.

There were sections in FFVII where there were hours between combat scenarios...

I forget, do they have "Repels" in FFVII?

 

[SomeDude]

It does.

Wow, ffxiii-x2 has a worse story than xiii? do you rank xiii that high compared to past ff games?

 

[Averon]

I'm waiting until some GAF impressions comes up, but I'm strongly leaning towards waiting until this hits $30 or less.

 

[Kagari]

Wow, ffxiii-x2 has a worse story than xiii? do you rank xiii that high compared to past ff games?

I didn't like XIII's story either.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I forget, do they have "Repels" in FFVII?

I think it might have, but I never used any Materia that avoided battles if there were any. But scenes like Cloud's Past part 1 and 2 or The Jenova Reunion were incredible in length with no combat other than four or five battles which were not able to be lost (and they were pretty great as well). And there was more "minor" stuff as well that had large sections of time between combat and mostly focused on story.

In general, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of your points and to disregard the encounter design in XIII-2 when combat was easily the best part of XIII is lunacy by reviewers and combat is huge in JRPGs. Story is a big deal in a lot of JRPGs though...

 

[AcceptableGhost]

More reviews which disregard the sharp drop in encounter design. Partially explains why JRPGs generally get good scores in the first place.

I wonder how Game Informer dude thinks combat is more entertaining.

Well all you have to think about is what people did in this scenario:

What did I do when I died to a tough enemy in FF13?
A. Try to grind characters to higher levels.
B. Try again, and try to think of a different strategy.

Choice A probably corresponds more to the JRPG audience... which pretty much negates and trivializes encounter design entirely. So yeah, blame JRPG players.

 

[Thoraxes]

I honestly can't see how anything could be worse than X-2's story. I mean, yes, the game was a ton of fun and I enjoyed it, but I definitely did not play it for the story.

 

[JerzeyDevil]

Partially it is bad anime.. Perhaps worse than it was in years past. (although that's the basic direction for the XIII games: schmaltzy shonen melodrama... Not necessarily FF as a whole).

But to a certain extent, it has always been melodramatic anime.. Even back in FF6. It's just that it was masked by the limits of the technology of the time (allowing for more subjective interpretation of the story that could be adapted to a variety of personal tastes)... And partially it was masked by the fact that we were probably kids back then. Some of us have grown into people for whom anime is this repulsive thing... And some of us have not. (I'm nearing 30, and the sensibilities of anime don't offend me one bit. I just want the plotting to be smarter.)

I do want more than anime tropes. I think future FFs will deliver that.. But I think no one should really be shocked that FF is often essentially anime. It's always been part of the DNA of the series, and shouldn't be used as evidence, in itself, that FF has gone off the rails.

I agree with everything you just said there. I should point out that I'm 29 myself, my friend 28, and we both have a healthy love of Japanese things, including anime. The things that he ( and myself ) seem to have a problem with didnt really showup until FFX. The character designs got more outlandish and nonsensical, the weapons went from cool to goofy and completely unbelievable, the locations themselves all seem to have the same sterile look about them ( XIII is really guilty of this ), the writing is just pure garbage, etc etc. I dont want to trash the recent entries too much, but it feels like Square Enix has gone out of their way to make the series appeal limited to hardcore otaku.

I wonder how much Sakaguchi leaving has to do with the current state of the series? I wonder if his influence kept the others at bay as far as letting those anime influences get out of hand? All of his Mistwalker games have the kind of art direction and writing that would probably appeal more to westerners than the recent Squenix stuff, its just a shame they dont have the same budget. Last Story has a really cool looking cast of characters, that would look great in an FF game.

Sorry if Im ranting. Pain meds got me off my game tonight ; p

 

[Electivirus]

Thank god I don't play video games for the story. Then again, I loved XIII's, so I doubt I'll be very disappointed with XIII-2's. Yaaay, low standards~

 

[Riposte]

Well all you have to think about is what people did in this scenario:

What did I do when I died to a tough enemy in FF13?
A. Try to grind characters to higher levels.
B. Try again, and try to think of a different strategy.

Choice A probably corresponds more to the JRPG audience... which pretty much negates and trivializes encounter design entirely. So yeah, blame JRPG players.

One of the reasons I firmly believe FFXIII is the best of the series is that "A." is much less of an option (and not an option at all towards the end of chapters against certain bosses). The game doesn't succeed in giving you interesting battles nearly enough to be considered a solid "good" game (especially in the earlier chapters), but is does have level caps in place to prevent encounter design from being trivialized like in virtually every other Final Fantasy. In this respect FFXIII-2 is a big step back (when XIII NEEDED a big step forward), wasting all the smart new additions to the battle systems. Even if I have little love for the series finding out they made the crystarium unrestricted infuriated me. I never get bothered at new releases like that, even for series I do care about (e.g. DmC). So, so dumb.

 

[Eusis]

"Worst story in Final Fantasy history"

Surely it couldn't get worse than FFXIII...

Preview material already killed any hope I had at this being a good story. FFXIII was generally sensical enough by video game standards, just pretty dumb at times, but this seems to just bring up all sorts of random crap like time travelling and Valhalla. Then the demo showed Chocolina and thus any hope was lost. I'm in this pu rely for a fun game, and by most accounts it succeeds, it'd be more damning for a pre-order if it turned out the soundtrack was ALSO the worst in the series, and only because getting the LE's a big reason I'll probably have this day one.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

One of the reasons I firmly believe FFXIII is the best of the series is that "A." is much less of an option (and not an option at all towards the end of chapters against certain bosses). The game doesn't succeed in giving you interesting battles nearly enough to be considered a solid "good" game (especially in the earlier chapters), but is does have level caps in place to prevent encounter design from being trivialized like in virtually every other Final Fantasy. In this respect FFXIII-2 is a big step back (when XIII NEEDED a big step forward), wasting all the smart new additions to the battle systems. Even if I have little love for the series finding out they made the crystarium unrestricted infuriated me. I never get bothered at new releases like that, even for series I do care about (e.g. DmC). So, so dumb.

I agree 100%. Grinding and strategy are essentially polar opposites. All "JRPGs" would be better if:

1. Every single fight was different.
2. Defeating an enemy/encounter means he never appears again (and of course, no random battles).
3. Maybe even get rid of XP/leveling up entirely. Lock upgrading / etc to certain intervals at max (maybe after bosses).

If your battle system is not enjoyable without the prospect of "leveling up" after it, it is probably bad.