Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Anyone else feel like they share more than a couple of similarities?

Not to mention that the fan reaction to both was about the same.
 
^What is that?

Rebel Leader said:
What the fuck is it? I'm on a phone and I can't watch it
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A Linkin Park song.

PsychoWARD23 said:
xUq9t.png
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*Cue said song*

Cagey said:
All I needed was the opening piano notes in that video to start laughing out loud. Oh god.

The "indoctrination" theory is eerily reminiscent of the internet fanboy obsession over the Rinoa => Ultimecia theory for Final Fantasy VIII. Painstaking effort at tying threads together that are barely present in the canonical narrative, sometimes inventing things entirely, invoking immense leaps of faith and assumptions, to provide an utterly mind blowing and brilliant explanation for the seemingly pitiful ending.

Both, of course, are essentially a real extreme version of Step 1. Denial.
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This is more like Squall dies in Disc 1.
 
Metroidvania said:
ME3 credits with Linkin Park lyrics. In the end, I think.

Switching topics, why do none of the adults in the hammer taking away civilians right before the normandy leaves try to help the "kid" onto the ship? He's totally ignored by other civilians.
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He wasn't Megan Fox
 
Lime said:
You are misunderstanding me. I'm basically referring to applying the concept of Ockham's razor when trying to get the point across in a narrative context. Like mentioned above, the extra information on Shepard and Anderson's desires in the conclusion of something as horrible and tragic as what they have experienced would go against the context they are in. Therefore, removing all the unnecessary filler (e.g. talk of settling down) seemed appropriate to me.
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Given that the alternative denoument is Joker and crew on some jungle planet, I'd rather have Shepard and Anderson be what they were fighting for - human - to be how the game ends. At least it gives a personal emotional payoff to all the fetch-quests and murdering you've done for the last three games... more than the stupid kid they threw in at the beginning of the game.
 
Metroidvania said:
ME3 credits with Linkin Park lyrics. In the end, I think.

Switching topics, why do none of the adults in the hammer taking away civilians right before the normandy leaves try to help the "kid" onto the ship? He's totally ignored by other civilians.

ALIEN INDOCTRINATION
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Even they knew he was going to fuck up the series. They were trying to leave him behind.
 
hateradio said:
This is more like Squall dies in Disc 1.
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Given how many indoctrination theories are out there, I was unclear in hindsight. Which is so god damn sad.

I was referring to the "he's indoctrinated at the very end" one.

Squall Dies would be the "he's gotten from the whole damn start!" one, in terms of chronology (i.e. how far back they're going to discount the rest of the game as a dream/hallucination/whatever).

Though I understand the narrative parallels.

Rokam said:
Even they knew he was going to fuck up the series. They were trying to leave him behind.
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Playing a renegade Shepard, the hell if I cared that the kid died. Whatever. A million others just did. Then he starts haunting Shep's dreams, and along the way, I begin to think "why would someone on the renegade give a fuck about this? this is so forced...".

I had no idea.
 
Haha, Kotaku changed their tune from "people demanding ending changes because of dead Shepard are stupid" to "people who demand story changes are stupid, but changing the way the game interacts with its conversation/morality system in the last 10 minutes is more stupid".

http://kotaku.com/5892676/why-mass-effect-3s-ending-was-so-terrible

I had no idea which was the "good" ending I was after. All three choices I'd been presented with seemed ambiguous. Which was surely another creative decision on BioWare's part, but a poor one, because this one interfered with the trilogy's most basic assumption: that you can build the story the way you want to.

That's why every single choice you made previously with regards to Paragon or Renegade pathways was so obvious; because it needed to be. People were invested in building their character the way they wanted to.

The way the game's endings were presented didn't just undermine this, it threw it out the window. What had been the point of making all your decisions across three titles based on good or "evil" (well, "rude") if the final payoff did not represent these?

It feels like walking 100 miles to get lemonade only to get there and be told you can choose between a pair of shoes, some brass knuckles or a cheeseburger.

You can say part of this is down to, yes, creative decisions, but that only works to a point. In the case of Mass Effect 3's conclusion there's no separation between creative decisions and mechanical ones. They're one and the same. So when one directly impacts the other, it can't magically be spared criticism.
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Not sure if this specific point has been mention yet, but from the Mass Effect wikia at http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers:

Indoctrination

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.
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Yeah, I guess some people can excuse this as how to explain the Space Ghost Kid Reaper God at the end. Maybe he was hallucinating. :P

While we're at, in regards to Space Magic from the same page:

Reaper Capabilities

The Reapers are technologically superior to the organic species of the galaxy -- but the degree of that superiority is a matter of debate in the intelligence community.

The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period.

Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to discharge static buildup from their drive cores, although they sometimes appear wreathed in static discharge when they land on planets.
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So first it seems they have "FTL" drives that are very well beyond the speed of light, already destroying any "good science" here. Doesn't say the open wormholes or anything. And the mention of their power sources breaking all known physical laws. Yeah, I guess Space Magic is in their blood. I guess this is why I really don't have that much of a problem with the "space magic" at the ending of ME3 since it's always been "space magic" with these guys since the beginning.
 
Oh yeah, did you guys ever figure out how they moved the Citadel/what happened to the millions of people on it?

And if you could move the damn thing, why not just move it outside of the galaxy where dudes can't reach it and build the super weapon that can destroy you?

Sigh.
 
Metroidvania said:
Haha, Kotaku changed their tune from "people demanding ending changes because of dead Shepard are stupid" to "people who demand story changes are stupid, but changing the way the game interacts with its conversation/morality system in the last 10 minutes is more stupid".

http://kotaku.com/5892676/why-mass-effect-3s-ending-was-so-terrible
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Thank you. That was nice to see an official or semi official outlet take this. After what I posted earlier about IGN and a couple others strangely dodging the issue or pretending it didn't exist.
 
firehawk12 said:
Oh yeah, did you guys ever figure out how they moved the Citadel/what happened to the millions of people on it?

And if you could move the damn thing, why not just move it outside of the galaxy where dudes can't reach it and build the super weapon that can destroy you?

Sigh.
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They already should've used it to turn off the mass relays.

The best way to play ME3 is to not ask any questions and turn the game off before the point of no return.
 
Derrick01 said:
I may not be acting fairly here but it's hard to take IGN seriously about anything ME3 related when they basically acted as free advertisers for the game instead of a review outlet. They have some balls speaking out at all.
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Look at the video comments :lol
 
Completed the game a few hours ago. Loved it, despite being rather disappointed with the ending. After the credits rolled, I knew there would be some backlash, by my god. The Bioware forums are literally insane right now. Never seen anything like it.

Seems like everyone, or at least the vast majority hated the ending(s) with a burning passion.
 
Its also sad that many of his comments actually didn't have any bearing on the issue. It was like he heard people were upset and set up his camera like a amateur web porn creator.
 
Kotaku has written many articles on this now this basicly sums up how the train of thought works at Kotaku regarding the endings.



1.ME3 endings were great! Who are you to demand something from game companies?!

2. eh second thought you can have you're own opinions too. . .

3.Changing a video game ending? who has control over am story? is it an company or the player?

4. ME3 endings sucked! here are all the reasons!
 
Trick_GSF said:
Completed the game a few hours ago. Loved it, despite being rather disappointed with the ending.

After the credits rolled, I knew there would be some backlash, by my god. Bioware forums are literally insane right now. Never seen anything like it.

Seems like everyone, or at least the vast majority hated the ending(s) with a burning passion.
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Yup.

Would maybe have been better if that was the only choice you'd ever make in the series (as in a normal game series where your choices don't tend to matter or carry over).
 
firehawk12 said:
Oh yeah, did you guys ever figure out how they moved the Citadel/what happened to the millions of people on it?

And if you could move the damn thing, why not just move it outside of the galaxy where dudes can't reach it and build the super weapon that can destroy you?

Sigh.
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Speaking of the Citadel.... I'm still not quite clear why the Illusive Man wanted to attack the Citadel (pre Thessia). There was no reason for him to do it at all according to the outline of his "diabolical" plan. Assassinate the Council? He could have literally ignored the Council since they were readily ignoring him.

branny said:
They already should've used it to turn off the mass relays.

The best way to play ME3 is to not ask any questions and turn the game off before the point of no return.
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Preventing anybody from attacking Earth with the Crucible. I see. Now I can't unsee.
 
Trick_GSF said:
Completed the game a few hours ago. Loved it, despite being rather disappointed with the ending. After the credits rolled, I knew there would be some backlash, by my god. The Bioware forums are literally insane right now. Never seen anything like it.

Seems like everyone, or at least the vast majority hated the ending(s) with a burning passion.
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Yep. BW forums have shutdown so many times in the last 3 days its insane. Which is good. Not because I want them impacted by this. But it will show that its not the vocal minority or anything.
 
Trick_GSF said:
Completed the game a few hours ago. Loved it, despite being rather disappointed with the ending. After the credits rolled, I knew there would be some backlash, by my god. The Bioware forums are literally insane right now. Never seen anything like it.

Seems like everyone, or at least the vast majority hated the ending(s) with a burning passion.
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Hey do you remember the choices you made.. do ya? Well do ya?



Oh well
 
jackdoe said:
Speaking of the Citadel.... I'm still not quite clear why the Illusive Man wanted to attack the Citadel (pre Thessia). There was no reason for him to do it at all according to the outline of his "diabolical" plan. Assassinate the Council? He could have literally ignored the Council since they were readily ignoring him.


Preventing anybody from attacking Earth. I see. Now I can't unsee.
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I'm assuming it was assassinate the council. Shepard no longer gets support as Cerberus is a human organization and Earth is left to rot.
 
WARP10CK said:
Kotaku has written many articles on this now this basicly sums up how the train of thought works at Kotaku regarding the endings.



1.ME3 endings were great! Who are you to demand something from game companies?!

2. eh second thought you can have you're own opinions too. . .

3.Changing a video game ending? who has control over am story? is it an company or the player?

4. ME3 endings sucked! here are all the reasons!
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Haha so true

there like Gizmodo

1. New iPad announced ! OMGOMGOMG
2. Why U shouldn't buy the new iPad
3. Review iPad it's revolutionary !
4. Why u should buy the new iPad
 
Secret_Riddle said:
matrix-revolutions-55.jpg


Anyone else feel like they share more than a couple of similarities?

Not to mention that the fan reaction to both was about the same.
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It crossed my mind, but the similarities are very few after that.

Neo gets there, the machines produce that weird being to talk to Neo, and the machines ask him to defeat their enemy (Smith) and save them from destruction. In turn, they offer a truce and a promise to not kill the humans. Neo jacks into the Matrix, does what he did in all the other movies (kung fu fighting). The whole bit with the source code and absorption works because he's just computer coding when inside the virtual world. That... makes sense within the series universe, even if it's not very good or satisfying.

ME3 though... none of it makes any god damn sense given everything before it.
 
Karak said:
Thank you. That was nice to see an official or semi official outlet take this. After what I posted earlier about IGN and a couple others strangely dodging the issue or pretending it didn't exist.
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BLOG.

And as far as I'm concerned they are still condescending assholes. It's rare not to see some "people can't complain about this shit, bubububu" post and not have "Kotaku" in the same topic.
Honestly can't imagine why anyone would read that drivel.
 
Cagey said:
It crossed my mind, but the similarities are very few after that.

Neo gets there, the machines produce that weird being to talk to Neo, and the machines ask him to defeat their enemy (Smith) and save them from destruction. In turn, they offer a truce and a promise to not kill the humans. Neo jacks into the Matrix, does what he did in all the other movies (kung fu fighting). The whole bit with the source code and absorption works because he's just computer coding. That... makes sense, even if it's not very good or satisfying.

ME3 though... none of it makes any god damn sense given everything before it.
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ME3 is closer to Matrix Reloaded actually in that you are given a massive infodump in the last moments of the story without time to digest it and then you are given a cliffhanger ending. The difference is that ME3 was meant to END a trilogy.
 
jackdoe said:
Speaking of the Citadel.... I'm still not quite clear why the Illusive Man wanted to attack the Citadel (pre Thessia). There was no reason for him to do it at all according to the outline of his "diabolical" plan. Assassinate the Council? He could have literally ignored the Council since they were readily ignoring him.
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The Illusive Man is indoctrinated so the reapers probably tried to bring him there to do what Saren did in ME1? The Illusive Man accepted himself to get reapers implants so he's basically a Saren 2.0.
 
Vamphuntr said:
The Illusive Man is indoctrinated so the reapers probably tried to bring him there to do what Saren did in ME1? The Illusive Man accepted himself to get reapers implants so he's basically a Saren 2.0.
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If he wanted to do that, then why send Kai Leng after the Councilors? Why not have him do his thing and use the Councilors as a diversion?
 
I'll give one thing to Bioware: They didn't spoil the shit out of the game in the official materials like they did with ME2.
 
jackdoe said:
ME3 is closer to Matrix Reloaded actually in that you are given a massive infodump in the last moments of the story without time to digest it and then you are given a cliffhanger ending. The difference is that ME3 was meant to END a trilogy.
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Exactly, and in the infodump plot twist at the end sense, Matrix Reloaded is much closer to ME1... which was the start of trilogy. Ugh.
 
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