Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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I am somewhat ashamed to admit that I would be almost satisfied - as in, not totally mortified - if the Normandy had just crashed on Earth. Shepard surviving the Destroy ending without his crew feels utterly pointless, and is salt to my silly wounds.

The true synthesis has finally happened: my cynical mind has merged with the BSN's overemotional outrage, and the results are monstrous. One part of my brain despise the other. Off to play BG2 to regain a semblance of sanity.
 
I am somewhat ashamed to admit that I would be almost satisfied - as in, not totally mortified - if the Normandy had just crashed on Earth. Shepard surviving the Destroy ending without his crew feels utterly pointless, and is salt to my silly wounds.

The true synthesis has finally happened: my cynical mind has merged with the BSN's overemotional outrage, and the results are monstrous. One part of my brain despise the other. Off to play BG2 to regain a semblance of sanity.

It's not earth you see two moons/planets in the sky of the jungle world.
 
Just beat it. Went for the destruction ending, but after watching the synthesis ending on Youtube I think that is the "best" ending. I'm not sure what all the hub-bub is about. What's so bad about this ending? Shepard sacrifices himself. Please don't try to tell me you didn't see that coming. I will admit that I was disappointed by the fact that my choices about the Krogan and Geth don't seem to ever have any consequences, i.e. I save the Krogan but the game ends after the Reapers are taken care of, so who knows if they wipe out the rest of galactic civilization? That's the only complaint. I thought the ending was fine otherwise. Music was fantastic.
 
Hey guys, remember Shepard VI in the docking bay?! It's a clue that all of this is actually virtual reality, Sovereign conquered all Citadel space in ME1 and hooked everyone to the Matrix to produce power for Reaper's Green Energy Beam!!!1

Am I good at this denial thing? I'm really trying...
 
Involved sexual harassment on a Capcom-produced internet reality show. The actual incident was horrible, and not defensible, but Kuchera and others used it to demonize an entire community.

Oh hell, not this shit again.

90% of the negative reaction people had from the articles him and Patrick wrote were just from watching the incident.

Many members of the community wanted this not to even get out in the first place, and they were right to give it the light of day.
 
Just beat it. Went for the destruction ending, but after watching the synthesis ending on Youtube I think that is the "best" ending. I'm not sure what all the hub-bub is about. What's so bad about this ending? Shepard sacrifices himself. Please don't try to tell me you didn't see that coming. I will admit that I was disappointed by the fact that my choices about the Krogan and Geth don't seem to ever have any consequences, i.e. I save the Krogan but the game ends after the Reapers are taken care of, so who knows if they wipe out the rest of galactic civilization? That's the only complaint. I thought the ending was fine otherwise. Music was fantastic.

The fact that ghost child came out of nowhere. The whole deal with space magic making everybody a mix of synthetic and organic. How did the party members who were with you running to the Conduit get on the Normandy without a scratch? Why was the Normandy in the relay network?

Nice to know you just obliterated most of the known universe and destroyed Earth (Relays blowing up = Supernova, see: The Arrival). Those who didn't die in the explosion are probably trapped far from their homes.

Also, bringing peace between the Geth and Quarians and getting EDI to acknowledge the power of love and compassion blows apart the ghost child's argument in the first place.
 
Question: Is it possible to meet Kirrhe on Sur'Kesh if you imported your character from ME2 (PS3 ver)? He was present in the ME3 demo yet in the full game he was replaced by a random Salarian.
 
Oh hell, not this shit again.

90% of the negative reaction people had from the articles him and Patrick wrote were just from watching the incident.

Many members of the community wanted this not to even get out in the first place, and they were right to give it the light of day.
I'm not blaming them for reporting on it. It's that in both cases (Mass Effect, Cross Assault), it appears to be blatantly designed to push people's buttons rather than report evenhandedly.
 
So what's the requirement for the final blu/red text in the stand off with the Illusive Man? I had as high a reputation as you could get (my bar certainly stopped growing) and was full on paragon with a little renegade here and there, but still couldn't select those options.

Also, does Anderson die regardless of any ending? I remember the list of endings saying whether or not you "save" Anderson... is that why "save" was listed in quotes?
 
Aliens did it.

But really, you see a cinematic of Shepard's body in London come back to life after the garden world cinematic.

There is no indication that he's even in london. For all we know, its just crap from the citadel. Plus the little kid even said he was partly synthetic, not completely. I figured when I heard that, there was a chance I'd live.
 
So what's the requirement for the final blu/red text in the stand off with the Illusive Man? I had as high a reputation as you could get (my bar certainly stopped growing) and was full on paragon with a little renegade here and there, but still couldn't select those options.

Also, does Anderson die regardless of any ending? I remember the list of endings saying whether or not you "save" Anderson... is that why "save" was listed in quotes?
I believe it has something to do with your prior conversations with TIM.

And yeah, Anderson's a goner no matter what you do.
 
I haven't read a lot of the thread, but I finished the game last night and wanted to give my impression of the ending. The more I think about the ending, the more I like it. The ending choices are all in the grey area. None are completely paragon, none are completely renegade. It made me think for a few seconds before choosing. I felt that the ending was open enough for me to decide how it continues (as many choices as I want to make). It will be that way if/until Bioware makes another Mass Effect game.

I choose to believe that the destruction of the Mass Relays did not destroy the system they were in due to how they were destroyed and so the Sol system and the surviving members of the fleet did not get blown up. I also choose to believe that fuel and food are not an issue for the different races when they are returning home with their FTL drives. It will only take a few years for the most of races to get home (all except the Quarians/Geth were close to Earth) and everyone can use the quantum entanglement communicators to keep in touch with the races (I assume they were introduced in the game to talk without Mass Relays, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time investigating the ability to communicate over long distances) until they can figure out how to build better FTL drives.

I interpret the old guy at the end of the game as Bioware telling us that their story about Shepard has come to a close and that in reality there might be life beyond Earth and nothing more than that.

I am also surprised at people complaining about space magic at the end. The whole universe is space magic. Biotics, indoctrination, FTL drives, etc.

My interpretations may have no relation to what Bioware intended. I don't care and I am completely satisfied with my interpretation of the ending, but I am also trying to interpret it in a way which makes me happy.
 
Are there any notable landmarks in future London? The only thing i notice are those silly phonebooths that don't even exist in modern london.

btw: wtf are the dream sequences about? Not feeling any symbolism or what not besides that the bushes and trees look super shitty. Dream in HD shepard!
 
I haven't read a lot of the thread, but I finished the game last night and wanted to give my impression of the ending. The more I think about the ending, the more I like it. The ending choices are all in the grey area. None are completely paragon, none are completely renegade. It made me think for a few seconds before choosing. I felt that the ending was open enough for me to decide how it continues (as many choices as I want to make). It will be that way if/until Bioware makes another Mass Effect game.

I choose to believe that the destruction of the Mass Relays did not destroy the system they were in due to how they were destroyed and so the Sol system and the surviving members of the fleet did not get blown up. I also choose to believe that fuel and food are not an issue for the different races when they are returning home with their FTL drives. It will only take a few years for the most of races to get home (all except the Quarians/Geth were close to Earth) and everyone can use the quantum entanglement communicators to keep in touch with the races (I assume they were introduced in the game to talk without Mass Relays, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time investigating the ability to communicate over long distances) until they can figure out how to build better FTL drives.

I interpret the old guy at the end of the game as Bioware telling us that their story about Shepard has come to a close and that in reality there might be life beyond Earth and nothing more than that.

I am also surprised at people complaining about space magic at the end. The whole universe is space magic. Biotics, indoctrination, FTL drives, etc.

My interpretations may have no relation to what Bioware intended. I don't care and I am completely satisfied with my interpretation of the ending, but I am also trying to interpret it in a way which makes me happy.

I agree with you and I also cannot understand why biotics, eezo and mass effect drive space magic is OK but crucible space magic is ohnoesdeusexmachina
 
Are there any notable landmarks in future London? The only thing i notice are those silly phonebooths that don't even exist in modern london.

btw: wtf are the dream sequences about? Not feeling any symbolism or what not besides that the bushes and trees look super shitty. Dream in HD shepard!

Shepard is so heartbroken about this one kid dying. The kid is supposed to symbolize his failure to save everyone on earth.

Unfortunately, Bioware insisted on shoving this in as ham-fistedly as possible, as opposed to actually showing interaction with the kid before the trial took place.

I agree with you and I also cannot understand why biotics, eezo and mass effect drive space magic is OK but crucible space magic is ohnoesdeusexmachina

Because they're all explained within the lore of the ME universe and the space magic laser instantly changes all life in the universe to being half-robot half-organic with nanomachines or something else that is equally unexplained?
 
Are there any notable landmarks in future London? The only thing i notice are those silly phonebooths that don't even exist in modern london.

btw: wtf are the dream sequences about? Not feeling any symbolism or what not besides that the bushes and trees look super shitty. Dream in HD shepard!

Big Ben is pretty visible

I think it's just Shepard struggling to deal with everything she's done, being haunted by the people who have died because of her (at least in her mind)
 
So what's the requirement for the final blu/red text in the stand off with the Illusive Man? I had as high a reputation as you could get (my bar certainly stopped growing) and was full on paragon with a little renegade here and there, but still couldn't select those options.

Also, does Anderson die regardless of any ending? I remember the list of endings saying whether or not you "save" Anderson... is that why "save" was listed in quotes?

From what I understand, you had to have picked either the renegade or paragon options in all the previous conversations with TIM. You can mix and match, doesn't matter, but you can't pick white text if blue and red is there.

Anderson dies regardless. He gets a nice, quiet death talking and joking with Shepard, though.

Shepard is so heartbroken about this one kid dying. The kid is supposed to symbolize his failure to save everyone on earth.

Unfortunately, Bioware insisted on shoving this in as ham-fistedly as possible, as opposed to actually showing interaction with the kid before the trial took place.

Which is why it would have made more sense to be the Virmire victim. But I'm guessing Bioware figured that players who started with ME3 would be too confused with that.
 
I haven't read a lot of the thread, but I finished the game last night and wanted to give my impression of the ending. The more I think about the ending, the more I like it. The ending choices are all in the grey area. None are completely paragon, none are completely renegade. It made me think for a few seconds before choosing. I felt that the ending was open enough for me to decide how it continues (as many choices as I want to make). It will be that way if/until Bioware makes another Mass Effect game.

I choose to believe that the destruction of the Mass Relays did not destroy the system they were in due to how they were destroyed and so the Sol system and the surviving members of the fleet did not get blown up. I also choose to believe that fuel and food are not an issue for the different races when they are returning home with their FTL drives. It will only take a few years for the most of races to get home (all except the Quarians/Geth were close to Earth) and everyone can use the quantum entanglement communicators to keep in touch with the races (I assume they were introduced in the game to talk without Mass Relays, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time investigating the ability to communicate over long distances) until they can figure out how to build better FTL drives.

I interpret the old guy at the end of the game as Bioware telling us that their story about Shepard has come to a close and that in reality there might be life beyond Earth and nothing more than that.

I am also surprised at people complaining about space magic at the end. The whole universe is space magic. Biotics, indoctrination, FTL drives, etc.

My interpretations may have no relation to what Bioware intended. I don't care and I am completely satisfied with my interpretation of the ending, but I am also trying to interpret it in a way which makes me happy.

I choose to believe Shep was indoctrinated and because I didn't pick the red flavour of space magic my Shep is now fully indoctrinated and the Galaxy lost.
 
I haven't read a lot of the thread, but I finished the game last night and wanted to give my impression of the ending. The more I think about the ending, the more I like it. The ending choices are all in the grey area. None are completely paragon, none are completely renegade. It made me think for a few seconds before choosing. I felt that the ending was open enough for me to decide how it continues (as many choices as I want to make). It will be that way if/until Bioware makes another Mass Effect game.

I choose to believe that the destruction of the Mass Relays did not destroy the system they were in due to how they were destroyed and so the Sol system and the surviving members of the fleet did not get blown up. I also choose to believe that fuel and food are not an issue for the different races when they are returning home with their FTL drives. It will only take a few years for the most of races to get home (all except the Quarians/Geth were close to Earth) and everyone can use the quantum entanglement communicators to keep in touch with the races (I assume they were introduced in the game to talk without Mass Relays, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time investigating the ability to communicate over long distances) until they can figure out how to build better FTL drives.

I interpret the old guy at the end of the game as Bioware telling us that their story about Shepard has come to a close and that in reality there might be life beyond Earth and nothing more than that.

I am also surprised at people complaining about space magic at the end. The whole universe is space magic. Biotics, indoctrination, FTL drives, etc.

My interpretations may have no relation to what Bioware intended. I don't care and I am completely satisfied with my interpretation of the ending, but I am also trying to interpret it in a way which makes me happy.

Instead of rebuking you and being an asshole, I'm going to share what a former Bioware (Mass Effect 1 & 2) writer said about Mass Effect 3's ending (Especially since some other people might benefit from reading this):

Mass relays are not the only means of FTL, as others have pointed out. They're merely the most efficient way of moving long distances. When you're moving from system to system in a cluster, you're using Normandy's own mass effect FTL drive. As I always say, only assholes quote themselves, so I'll be an asshole and quote the ME1 codex:

Quote
Four thousand years ago, the Mu Relay was knocked out of position by a supernova and lost. Since then, Ilos and its cluster have been inaccessible.

Occasionally, a university will organize an expedition to chart a route to Ilos using conventional FTL drive. These never get beyond the planning stages due to the distance and danger. The journey could take years or decades, passing through the hostile Terminus Systems and dozens of unexplored systems.

As for colonization patterns, yeah, the bulk of the galaxy is toast. There are three basic types of world in the IP:

Homeworlds: Billions of inhabitants, too many to feed and maintain standard of living without massive resource importation. (Earth, Thessia, etc.)
Colony worlds: Millions of inhabitants, self-supporting but may lack heavy industry or R&D capabilities. (Terra Nova, New Eden, Illium)
Mining worlds: Hundreds or thousands of inhabitants, uninhabitable without regular imports of manufactured goods, O2, food, and so on. These worlds supply the resources that feed the homeworlds. (Therum)

What you'd realistically see post-relay is a massive die-off back to sustainable levels. For the mining worlds, nothing is sustainable - everyone dies. For the homeworlds, massive starvation and scarcity - a Malthusian crisis akin to what killed off the drell. Life becomes nasty, brutish, and short as people fight over the leftovers. The homeworlds have all the tech, but they're mined-out - there's not enough to start again from scratch. If they use up what they have, they're not getting back into space on their own.

The colonies fare the best. They can feed themselves and maintain their level of technology (possibly barring a few key industries). They'll certainly lack for brain power (the most prestigious universities and corporate labs are on homeworlds), and the smaller ones will have problems with genetic diversity. They may not be able to get back into space for generations, but they're in good shape to do it eventually.
 
He mentions that his cycle had the same problem as the current with the Geth, and is vehemently against Legion, suggesting Shepard blow him out the airlock. He pushes the point that AI cannot and should not ever be trusted, and states this is due to their priorities shaped by their construct. Organics do not know their true purpose or creation in life, and thus seek one themselves. AI does, and thus will always have different priorities, where organics will be expendable.

I still don't understand this.

So, if you construct and AI with the priority to build a great big ship, it will then kill all humans because they are expendable?

I always thought that the idea of AI as a villain had to do with their lack of empathy and emotion so they would always make decisions based on facts and logic. If that were the case, then even AI would recognize that co-operation and co-habitation is far more advantageous than engaging in a destructive war that could endanger the future of your 'priorities.'

Unless all synthetics are created with the priority to wipe out organics (like the Reapers) I just don't see why this technological singularity is considered an inevitability. Especially since it seems more inevitable that organics will strive for 'synthesis' by incorporating technology in their own bodies to alleviate the shortcomings of a biological species.
 
Unfortunately, Bioware insisted on shoving this in as ham-fistedly as possible, as opposed to actually showing interaction with the kid before the trial took place.

No, the kid is Harbinger. Didn't you see how he disappeared in the vent after Anderson called to Shepard, and there was a growl afterward? How no one noticed him as he clambered onto the shuttle?

Indoctrination.
 
I agree with you and I also cannot understand why biotics, eezo and mass effect drive space magic is OK but crucible space magic is ohnoesdeusexmachina

All of that is introduced from the very beginning and becomes an understood part of the universe, whereas the crucible space magic beam to give every living organic lifeform circuitry (for example) pops up unexplained without any forewarning in the last 3 minutes of a 100+ hour story.

And no, I don't consider "we don't know what the crucible will do!" to be license to have it capable of that.


I still don't understand this.

So, if you construct and AI with the priority to build a great big ship, it will then kill all humans because they are expendable?

I always thought that the idea of AI as a villain had to do with their lack of empathy and emotion so they would always make decisions based on facts and logic. If that were the case, then even AI would recognize that co-operation and co-habitation is far more advantageous than engaging in a destructive war that could endanger the future of your 'priorities.'

Unless all synthetics are created with the priority to wipe out organics (like the Reapers) I just don't see why this technological singularity is considered an inevitability. Especially since it seems more inevitable that organics will strive for 'synthesis' by incorporating technology in their own bodies to alleviate the shortcomings of a biological species.

Further making this so odd is the revelation in ME1 that the Mass Relays, Citadel, etc. exist so that each cycle's predominant civilization(s) will walk along a relatively narrow and thus predictable band of technological evolution. Thus, wouldn't that double down on the "inevitability" aspect the vent child god baby fears so much?
 
Instead of rebuking you and being an asshole, I'm going to share what a former Bioware (Mass Effect 1 & 2) writer said about Mass Effect 3's ending (Especially since some other people might benefit from reading this):

That is assuming that the Relays blowing up doesn't destroy each System. Which because it's space magic I guess could make sense (some endings have the Relays just fall apart. I think destroy does have them explode though).
 
I always thought that the idea of AI as a villain had to do with their lack of empathy and emotion so they would always make decisions based on facts and logic. If that were the case, then even AI would recognize that co-operation and co-habitation is far more advantageous than engaging in a destructive war that could endanger the future of your 'priorities.'

Unless all synthetics are created with the priority to wipe out organics (like the Reapers) I just don't see why this technological singularity is considered an inevitability. Especially since it seems more inevitable that organics will strive for 'synthesis' by incorporating technology in their own bodies to alleviate the shortcomings of a biological species.

It's considered inevitable only because the catalyst say so. We're shown only second-hand evidence by a few sidequests and one DLC character's story.

No, the kid is Harbinger. Didn't you see how he disappeared in the vent after Anderson called to Shepard, and there was a growl afterward? How no one noticed him as he clambered onto the shuttle?

Indoctrination.

Lol, I've heard it before, and even brought up those points. But until Bioware releases a statement (which will probably coincide with ME3 releasing in Japan), I'm going to remain cautiously pessimistic.

That is assuming that the Relays blowing up doesn't destroy each System. Which because it's space magic I guess could make sense (some endings have the Relays just fall apart. I think destroy does have them explode though).

It looks to me more like the Mass Relays "fall apart" than self-destruct like the one in Arrival did.
 
I agree with you and I also cannot understand why biotics, eezo and mass effect drive space magic is OK but crucible space magic is ohnoesdeusexmachina

Generally with fiction, you can ask the reader (or watcher or player) to take a few world-building leaps of faith. Biotics were a thing past the known system and humans master it because Mass Relay. Mass Effect drive is there because Mass Relay. Humans have advanced significantly because Mass Relay.

The world is built. Mass relay is your leap of faith.

To then go "Also, there is an energy-based child who is the god of Order and is telling you things that are explicitly not true based on your interaction with this fiction," then it is a leap too far.

There is no law, societal or moral or whatever, that says accepting one aspect of craziness means you have to accept all aspects. I think platypodes are fucking weird, but this does not make belief in unicorns okay. Similarly, biotics are something I accept as part of the game's world because it is accepted by the game world's inhabitants. Magic energy child that gives you color choices came out of left field.
 
Bioware Official Forums thread update:
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Now people are talking about using the bad ending as a catalyst (hurr durr) to drive sales of an alternate ending DLC.
:lol
This keeps getting stranger and stranger.
 
All of that is introduced from the very beginning and becomes an understood part of the universe, whereas the crucible space magic beam to give every living organic lifeform circuitry (for example) pops up unexplained without any forewarning in the last 3 minutes of a 100+ hour story.

And no, I don't consider "we don't know what the crucible will do!" to be license to have it capable of that.

So if at the end of ME 1 they were like "hey I found this prothean thing I think it's plans for the crucible super weapon" you would be alright with it?

Originally Posted by ElectricBlue187:
I agree with you and I also cannot understand why biotics, eezo and mass effect drive space magic is OK but crucible space magic is ohnoesdeusexmachina
Generally with fiction, you can ask the reader (or watcher or player) to take a few world-building leaps of faith. Biotics were a thing past the known system and humans master it because Mass Relay. Mass Effect drive is there because Mass Relay. Humans have advanced significantly because Mass Relay.

The world is built. Mass relay is your leap of faith.

To then go "Also, there is an energy-based child who is the god of Order and is telling you things that are explicitly not true based on your interaction with this fiction," then it is a leap too far.

There is no law, societal or moral or whatever, that says accepting one aspect of craziness means you have to accept all aspects. I think platypodes are fucking weird, but this does not make belief in unicorns okay. Similarly, biotics are something I accept as part of the game's world because it is accepted by the game world's inhabitants. Magic energy child that gives you color choices came out of left field.

All of it is contrived to let you do cool biotic stuff and fly around the galaxy in a space ship, they didn't start with eezo and biotics and think "what kind of game can we make out of this?" if you're fine with that I don't see a problem being fine with this too
 
Bioware Official Forums thread update:
971 Pages
24252 Replies
171820 Views

Now people are talking about using the bad ending as a catalyst (hurr durr) to drive sales of an alternate ending DLC.
:lol
This keeps getting stranger and stranger.
holy shit
 
I saw the arms break up, I didn't see it explode. Who knows where he is or if it's even Shepard (though that would be troll to the max if it's really Vega HAHa)

Uh. You were on top of the Citidel, in space (somehow without a helmet) where the Crucible connects to the Citidel. Not inside. Not on an arm.
 
So if at the end of ME 1 they were like "hey I found this prothean thing I think it's plans for the crucible super weapon" you would be alright with it?

Actually, yes. I might certainly think it's stupid and wish they had gone in another direction, sure. But it's introduced at the end of Act I of a three act story. It ratchets up the legitimacy of the story element because of the timing. You move forward into the next two Acts knowing there are designs for a superweapon of some kind, and you slowly but surely learn more about it.

Instead of learning everything in the last 5 minutes.
 
So if at the end of ME 1 they were like "hey I found this prothean thing I think it's plans for the crucible super weapon" you would be alright with it?



All of it is contrived to let you do cool biotic stuff and fly around the galaxy in a space ship, they didn't start with eezo and biotics and think "what kind of game can we make out of this?" if you're fine with that I don't see a problem being fine with this too
The eezo stuff is explained and given rules and that's why the audience accepts it. When you introduce new stuff without any explanation, it comes off as cheap. When we find out about the Crucible, we have no idea what it does; most people assume it will just destroy the Reapers and that's it. But then it can also merge organics and synthetics somehow and that's where the space magic derision comes in.
 
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