Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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luxarific said:
There's a difference between canon and best, dude. I agree that Synthesis is probably the lore framework, but the breath scene for Destroy makes me wonder if Shepard's story isn't over yet.

I would have been happy with Shepard and Anderson just bleeding out on the Citadel deck with Earth as the last thing they see.
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EatChildren said:
Alternate Timeline Universe featuring the return of Shepard-san.
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Just wait until Shepard's kid sister teams up with a time traveler from 50K years in the future named Moses and a magical Hanar to traverse the timeline and find what really happened to Shepard after he saved the world, enkindler.

Gon be so good.
 
bengraven said:
Basically what I'm thinking.

It will be purposely murky, confusing, "lost to legend". It will be a world where we had to make our own relays or learn FTL speed. Earth will be a lost sanctuary of mixed races yet they will never reveal if those races came to a charred, dead earth and settled (kill all organics) or if they were survivors of the fight against the Reapers who couldn't return home (destroy Reapers). And then most people have synthetic upgrades though you don't know if it's because of the Synthesis ending or because they choose the upgrades themselves (and even chosen upgrades are "passed from parent to children", effectively making Synthesis not necessarily canon, but possible).
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Wouldn't this make the barrier to entry even higher than it already is. I can't believe anybody would just discard so much established lore from a brand (except for George Lucas).
 
You know, it's weird, though, I'm still on a high from the game - the ending, as crappy as it is, didn't spoil the experience of playing ME3 for me at all (I agree it probably should have). I just had so much fun playing the game and resolving Tuchanka and Rannoch satisfactorily and watching Thane kick Kai Leng's ass. Even knowing the ending, I'm looking forward to my King Asshole of the universe Renegade run.
 
luxarific said:
I agree that Synthesis is probably the lore framework, but the breath scene for Destroy makes me wonder if Shepard's story isn't over yet.
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To me the thing as I have stated a ton of times is that Shep wouldn't be shown alive without a reason. They took the time to make SURE that was in there.
 
luxarific said:
You know, it's weird, though, I'm still on a high from the game - the ending, as crappy as it is, didn't spoil the experience of playing ME3 for me at all (I agree it probably should have). I just had so much fun playing the game and resolving Tuchanka and Rannoch satisfactorily and watching Thane kick Kai Leng's ass. Even knowing the ending, I'm looking forward to my King Asshole of the universe Renegade run.
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I think its fine that it didn't ruin the game. I will say this. I wish it had not for me. I really do. But it has made playing the games completely removed from ever happening again. That's just me. I feel like anyone who sees those and can still replay the games as lucky.
 
Goddamn the Rannoch theme is so fucking good unf unf unf
 
Karak said:
I think its fine that it didn't ruin the game. I will say this. I wish it had not for me. I really do. But it has made playing the games completely removed from ever happening again. That's just me. I feel like anyone who sees those and can still replay the games as lucky.
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I'm not sure where I fall on this. I fired up a new save file last night, making a female character this time and setting out to do the opposite of what I had done. I lost interest real quickly.

I'm unsure of whether it's my dislike for most paragon choices, the feeling that I'll make largely the same choices again because I chose what I wanted to happen more than pursuing one side or the other in my last playthrough, or that ventchild is waiting for me at the end of this journey.
 
Playing further in Insanity renegade playthrough, and must say in gameplay terms Vega is literally solid. Takes a lot to put him down, often him keeping pressure on the enemy while I'm trying to get to a squishy downed Liara...or not bothering near the end of a fight (I prefer not to use medigels unless truly no choice, like smart-bombs in 2D shooters). And after noticing him able to stand and trade blows for a while, I've prioritized upgrading his shotgun towards melee.

Also interesting seeing who shows up--or not--on a (deliberately) fouled-up ME2 import. Nobody shows up in place of Garrus, the only reminder of him is some team banter about how Garrus would have felt about Palaven. Then Mordin turning into "not-Mordin" as Joker puts it...lol. I'm at what would be the Grunt mission, but it is now Dagg. Speaking to him was a little more interesting, guy at least seems more individual than just copy/paste.

Side-quest wise, the only glitch I had first game was being unable to complete the Hanar diplomat mission, but this time no problem...perhaps not coincidentally there was also no Kasumi...
 
Karak said:
To me the thing as I have stated a ton of times is that Shep wouldn't be shown alive without a reason. They took the time to make SURE that was in there.
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My thoughts exactly.

Karak said:
I think its fine that it didn't ruin the game. I will say this. I wish it had not for me. I really do. But it has made playing the games completely removed from ever happening again. That's just me. I feel like anyone who sees those and can still replay the games as lucky.
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I think part of it is because I don't really want to see how the characters end up. I had anticipated that Shepard would die in ME3 and the dead don't get to see how it all turns out. I actually appreciated that small fidelity to how the real world works.

The thing with Joker having jumped into a relay before Shepard made his choice kind of bugs me though. I don't see him running away from a battle.
 
alysonwheel said:
Finished the game last night, and was more taken aback by the ending than angry; it's just stupid. So, at least until they fix it with DLC, it's time for sweet, sweet headcanon!

At first I decided that my Shep had just passed out from blood loss next to Anderson and was dreaming all this ridiculous bullshit, but I was thinking about it just now (at work, waiting for the system to reset; bored) and decided that this is what actually happened (you get a paragon/renegade interrupt option while the kid is speaking; this is the paragon version, I guess the renegade one just has you pick the kid up and throw him in):

"...Wait, so you're saying the only ways to solve this are to kill even more innocent people, or change everyone in the galaxy against their will, or to destroy the Reapers but leave us all stranded on a ruined planet to riot as we starve to death? No. I won't accept that. I can't accept that."

"We saw no alternative--"

"Well what do you see now? Look around! Look at these people! We don't need your help to make peace with synthetics, and we don't need to be stranded to cooperate with each other! You're judging us by the standards of your time and they just don't apply any more."

"What would you have us do?"

"Leave. Go! Take the Reapers and get out and don't come back. Your goals have been accomplished and you're going to condemn us because you don't have a plan for what comes next? Just LEAVE!"

"We cannot take the Reapers with us--"

"Then turn them off! Flip the killswitch, whatever, just *stop* them and then GO."

"...We will stop them. And then we will go."

With that, the boy walks calmly to the glowing beam in the centre of the platform. He plunges his hands into the energy stream and a lance of pure white light strikes the Sol Relay. As the network broadcasts the shutdown signal to every inhabited system in the galaxy, Repears and their servants fall lifeless to the ground.

The boy turns to Shepard. "Come and find us," he says, fading to nothingness, "in the dark space between galaxies. Come see for yourselves what you could have been, how you could have lived. We will always be waiting."

"Don't give me that," Shepard mutters.

And then, the Repears finally gone from the galaxy, Shepard's suddenly unblocked comm unit comes alive with plaintive messages from across the Wards, from civiilians and soldiers alike who had been trapped on the Citadel when the Reapers claimed it and took refuge in the arms, far enough away from the Presidium that they were not yet taken by the Reapers' servants. Shepard acknowledges them, reassures them that they're going to be okay, and calls Joker for a pickup.

Joker says something inappropriate.

THE END
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How do I pay you for your DLC ending? Paypal?

The funny thing is, the crappy ending(s) we got work just fine as ONE of the potential endings. You make a tough choice, maybe you didn't do such a great job of making alliances and bringing warring cultures together, and you have to destroy the Reapers in a way that blows up the relays and destroys intergalactic culture. Sucks, but it's a valid ending and one that takes the actions of the player into account.

But to have the destruction of Citadel culture be mandatory just makes all 3 endings basically the same in the end. So depressing. I chose synthesis for mine, even though forcing every living thing in the galaxy - organic and synthetic - to magically change into some new species without warning or choice seems like a dick move for a guy who spent so much time trying to promote inclusion and tolerance. But the destruction ending would kill the Geth (who I really liked and had made peace with the Quarrians in my playthrough) and EDI so I shied away from it. And again, if the relays are destoryed it's a gloomy lonely future for everyone anyway so whatever lol.
 
LiK said:
I love that planet. I wanna live there
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They even have ducks flying around (can be clearly seen during the rescue Admiral Koris mission). I dunno, I found it funny that they have ducks more than halfway across the galaxy from Earth and that the Quarians are just humans with three fingers and dinosaur hindlegs.
 
Can anyone tell me what purpose the vent kid dream sequences served with regards to the ending? If the indoctrination theory was true, then the scenes could symbolize the indoctrination slowly taking hold of Shepard throughout the game. If the ending was real, then I have no idea what purpose those scenes served.
 
luxarific said:
The thing with Joker having jumped into a relay before Shepard made his choice kind of bugs me though. I don't see him running away from a battle.
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Running away from battle but still somehow finding the time to fly to London (which was now surrounded by a few sovereign class Reapers) to pick up the squadmates I though had been dying around me just getting to the transport beam. I thought those jerks were right behind me dying heroically just attempting to get to the Citadel, but jokes on Shepard apparently they bailed the second he hit the beam and decided to flee to the relay. ;)
 
The way I looked at it, when considering that the fleets of almost every major race were going to be stranded in the Sol System for quite a long time regardless of what you choose, I might as well make them into organic/synthetic hybrids in order to speed things along in terms of getting them back to their homes; make sure they don't kill each other in record time.
 
sdornan said:
Can anyone tell me what purpose the vent kid dream sequences served with regards to the ending? If the indoctrination theory was true, then the scenes could symbolize the indoctrination slowly taking hold of Shepard throughout the game. If the ending was real, then I have no idea what purpose those scenes served.
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The kid represents Shepard's guilt and anguish at the suffering back on Earth. He couldn't save the kid, and he can't save anyone else right now, and it terrorizes him in his nightmares.

And if you're a bad ass renegade who couldn't give a fuck about the kid dying in the first place, TOO BAD, your Shepard is still awfully sad.
 
calder said:
Running away from battle but still somehow finding the time to fly to London (which was now surrounded by a few sovereign class Reapers) to pick up the squadmates I though had been dying around me just getting to the transport beam. I thought those jerks were right behind me dying heroically just attempting to get to the Citadel, but jokes on Shepard apparently they bailed the second he hit the beam and decided to flee to the relay. ;)
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Ya these issues are at the crux of what is bothering me. So many errors. Whatever they were shooting for(if not rushed which seems almost impossible now) they missed by a mile.
 
Cagey said:
The kid represents Shepard's guilt and anguish at the suffering back on Earth. He couldn't save the kid, and he can't save anyone else right now, and it terrorizes him in his nightmares.

And if you're a bad ass renegade who couldn't give a fuck about the kid dying in the first place, TOO BAD, your Shepard is still awfully sad.
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All the more reason to buy the indoctrination theory. I don't see why this one kid would represent all of humanity for him even if your playing paragon shep. Ashley or someone else he knows would fit the mold better.
 
Thought this was interesting

bsn said:
I know the subject of the eyes has been brought up a lot. But I've talked to quite a few people who don't see it, or don't think they're really what we think they are. So I got some screenshots and when necessary magnified them so you can see them better.

1.jpg


That's the Illusive Man's eye in ME2. Note the pattern: an inner circle, an outer circle, and two orb shapes on the bottom left and right.

2.jpg


This is Saren's eye in ME1 right before he ragequits existence. It's different, but similar in a way. A large glowing center, an inner ring, a much smaller outer ring, and some wavy designs coming out of them.

3.jpg

This is Shepard's eye right after his face turned black in the control ending. This is the exact same pattern as the Illusive Man's. The only difference is the color. Which is similar to Saren's. I'll also note that the rest of the scene he seemed to be in immense pain as he's gripping the handles. After he turns like this, he simply looks deadpan and emotionless.

4.jpg

This is Shepard's eye during the synthesis ending. He's further from the camera and a lot of the time it's distorted by the green pulses, but this is still a clear enough shot to tell, without a doubt, that he has the same eyes here as in control.

Hopefully this helps convince someone that doesn't believe the eye evidence, which I personally consider to be the strongest evidence of the indoctrination theory.
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Generic said:
All the more reason to buy the indoctrination theory. I don't see why this one kid would represent all of humanity for him even if your playing paragon shep. Ashley or someone else he knows would fit the mold better.
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Kid dies in front of him when Reapers first invade Earth, as he's leaving Earth and feeling torn about leaving, since the fight is just starting. Kids are innocent victims who had no role in the fight; Ashley/Kaiden were soldiers who were sacrificed in battle far removed from the invasion of Earth.

It makes sense. It's just... meh.
 
sdornan said:
Can anyone tell me what purpose the vent kid dream sequences served with regards to the ending? If the indoctrination theory was true, then the scenes could symbolize the indoctrination slowly taking hold of Shepard throughout the game. If the ending was real, then I have no idea what purpose those scenes served.
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As I see it the kid was how the indoctrination is conveyed to the player. The longer the reapers take with the indoctrination process the more use they can get out of them. Shepard is fully indoctrinated (assumingly) when you see him burning with the child. What happens past that is unclear. Everything after he got into the citadel is obviously not real (through the indoctrination theory), because it doesn't make any sense; Anderson could not have gotten to where he was, the pistol has unlimited ammo, the scattered bodies, the seemingly meaninglessly different choices, breathing where there is no oxygen (they are standing in the area that you can clearly see is not contained when the crucible and citadel connect), and shepard being in some pile of rubble that is likely not the citadel, as that was destroyed and in space.
But where exactly does the disconnect occur, and where does the Normandy actually go if it wasn't in the battle? I don't remember exactly at what point the final child-dream occurs so I can't be sure. If it was before the battle on Earth, then the whole battle on Earth never actually happened.

The people arguing that the simple and surface-level answer is the only possible/correct one baffle me. It's just too stupid and nonsensical to be a real answer, and base to assume that it is what actually happened.
 
I pretty much would have been completely satisfied with the ending to ME3 if it was just ripped wholesale from the end of the Shadow War in Babylon 5, complete with "NOW GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY".
 
luxarific said:
The thing with Joker having jumped into a relay before Shepard made his choice kind of bugs me though. I don't see him running away from a battle.
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I think my issue is. In the end whatever you do does nothing. Nothing at all. Starvation and death...for everyone...no matter how well you did. So the moment I think about who to talk to or what decision I want to make I get an image in my head of this person...starving to death or eating the bodies of their loved ones as they turn into thoughtless cannibalizes. Thanks!

I just can't fight that reminder...of nothingness.

Also the fact that in the end Joker at the minimum cowardly runs from the battle...just kills me. Like...what the fuck?!?
 
Give me a Garrus ending DLC and I'll buy it
"Remember all the calibrations that I did on the old Normandy? Here's the result"
*a giant cannon emerge from the Normandy and shoot Harbringer in the face*
Reapers return to dark space in fear, never to be seen again.
Same Epilogue, just the child saying "Please Grandpa, tell me another story of THE VAKARIAN"
 
FrontalMonk said:
I pretty much would have been completely satisfied with the ending to ME3 if it was just ripped wholesale from the end of the Shadow War in Babylon 5, complete with "NOW GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY".
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Funny how they handled that ending really god damned well too.
 
JerkShep said:
Give me a Garrus ending DLC and I'll buy it
"Remember all the calibrations that I did on the old Normandy? Here's the result"
*a giant cannon emerge from the Normandy and shoot Harbringer in the face*
Reapers return to dark space in fear, never to be seen again.
Same Epilogue, just the child saying "Please Grandpa, tell me another story of THE VAKARIAN"
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Garrus reuniting with his sister and father please.
 
Cagey said:
The kid represents Shepard's guilt and anguish at the suffering back on Earth. He couldn't save the kid, and he can't save anyone else right now, and it terrorizes him in his nightmares.

And if you're a bad ass renegade who couldn't give a fuck about the kid dying in the first place, TOO BAD, your Shepard is still awfully sad.
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I just find it hard to believe that the same otherwise capable and intelligent writers would write in these hamfisted scenes that do nothing to advance the plot unless there was some other purpose for them being there.

Also, the first encounter with vent kid at the start of the game was way too weird to be taken at face value. Vent kid just seemingly disappears from the vent after your conversation? Anderson doesn't notice that you were talking to some kid? Shepard makes no effort to acknowledge the kid's existence with Anderson? Just seemed really strange for a series that usually handles character interaction in such a well-grounded way.
 
Generic said:
All the more reason to buy the indoctrination theory. I don't see why this one kid would represent all of humanity for him even if your playing paragon shep. Ashley or someone else he knows would fit the mold better.
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Paragon Shep perhaps, but the LI might indeed have worked better in general. Ashley as noted would be a prime example. Playing now as I am with ME1/2 import with Ashley as LI, right from the start Shep's responses were skewed significantly to thinking of Ash. Taking advantage of that for emotional control (in terms of having bad dreams/hallucinations of what could happen to a loved one, rather than already dead) would seem to make more sense regardless of Shep's outward behavior.
 
At this point I'm hoping the indoctrination theory is true because otherwise it will be years before people let it go... I still don't see how the Normandy and post-credits sequence would fit, as well at the "Buy DLC" message. And the fact that indoctrination was never shown as super-fast, and the Prothean VI would've say something.

I will take anything over this crappy endings... but so far I'm going with "bad writing", and that includes that damn kid as an attempt to invoke emotion.

EDIT:

As for Joker running away... well, maybe he's trying to save his new sexbot EDI... that would fit, hehehe.
 
luxarific said:
The thing with Joker having jumped into a relay before Shepard made his choice kind of bugs me though. I don't see him running away from a battle.
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Pretty sure he was in normal FTL and wasn't using a Mass Relay, it takes a few seconds for something to pass from Relay to Relay, he was probably just trying to outrun the blast from the Charon Relay with FTL.

As to why, it only makes sense on the Destruction ending if the AI didn't lie and it would kill EDI.
 
sdornan said:
I just find it hard to believe that the same otherwise capable and intelligent writers would write in these hamfisted scenes that do nothing to advance the plot unless there was some other purpose for them being there.

Also, the first encounter with vent kid at the start of the game was way too weird to be taken at face value. Vent kid just seemingly disappears from the vent after your conversation? Anderson doesn't notice that you were talking to some kid? Shepard makes no effort to acknowledge the kid's existence with Anderson? Just seemed really strange for a series that usually handles character interaction in such a well-grounded way.
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I agree at how bad it seems, and yet... I don't have 1) the confidence in the writing that you do and 2) barring an ME4 announcement, find such an ending to be just utterly terrible because it's not an ending.

What would the explanation be for trying to indoctrinate Shepard starting at that very moment, as opposed to blowing him out of the sky when he's on-board the ship, thus saving the Reapers a ton of trouble? One that's present during the game, as opposed to revealed in another last 10 minutes of action infodump?

I feel that, no matter which is the true explanation, I'm being asked to accept some pretty bad writing.
 
MrBig said:
As I see it the kid was how the indoctrination is conveyed to the player. The longer the reapers take with the indoctrination process the more use they can get out of them. Shepard is fully indoctrinated (assumingly) when you see him burning with the child. What happens past that is unclear. Everything after he got into the citadel is obviously not real (through the indoctrination theory), because it doesn't make any sense; Anderson could not have gotten to where he was, the pistol has unlimited ammo, the scattered bodies, the seemingly meaninglessly different choices, breathing where there is no oxygen (they are standing in the area that you can clearly see is not contained when the crucible and citadel connect), and shepard being in some pile of rubble that is likely not the citadel, as that was destroyed and in space.
But where exactly does the disconnect occur, and where does the Normandy actually go if it wasn't in the battle? I don't remember exactly at what point the final child-dream occurs so I can't be sure. If it was before the battle on Earth, then the whole battle on Earth never actually happened.

The people arguing that the simple and surface-level answer is the only possible/correct one baffle me. It's just too stupid and nonsensical to be a real answer, and base to assume that it is what actually happened.
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I didn't even think of the whole lack-of-oxygen thing until you mention it. Also, gravity. When you're boarding the dreadnought through the busted tube, the game goes out of its way to mention that you're able to walk on the circular tube because you're using mag-boots. Assumingly, your helmet is providing you with oxygen. In the end sequence, though, both of these things are a non-issue.
 
So far there is nothing I have seen to actually discount the indoctrination theory. Not one thing that doesn't fit. Infact everything seems to point to it including codex entries from the first game. So either it's big middle finger from Bioware in the sense we have to buy the ending as DLC or its one of the most willfully vague and illconceived dissapointments of an ending ever written. The latter seems more out of chracter for Bioware even if you take Dragon Age 2 into account.
 
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