sorry, english isn't my main language and I tend to get lost when I try to explain a complex idea, I'll try to rephrase it :\
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
- Thread starter XANDER CAGE
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littleworm
Member
Exactly if they are as god like as Sovereign claims they are, why don't they just stop organics form advancing. Organic race about to go to space, zap the shuttle with a laser.
Imagine if another civilization came down to earth, destroyed all the technology we know, and went away. Makes sense? And besides that, even if they destroy the technology, the knowledge would still exist, so the whole process would be for nothing.
AzureNightmare
Banned
So I just got banned from viewing and commenting on Ray Muzyka's facebook posts for telling him that its a very good idea to have his writers reconsider their stance on Mass Effect 3's ending and that he needs to properly properly address the concerns of the fanbase, or risk permanently alienating them. Guess he'd rather have a bunch of tools suck his dick than have some one offer an honest opinion on the matter.
i'd prefer that to another civilization coming down to earth and killing us all so the possibility of us developing something that could potentially kill us all doesn't happen
BENEVOLENT PROTECTORS
Yup, Reapers being giant synthetics that are controlled by an artificial intelligence who's mission is to kill off most of the organics every 50,000 years so organics don't get killed off by synthetics every 50,000 years anyway.
It really writes itself...
And then we'd just build everything they destroyed again. The cycle of destroying technology would have to be reduced for once in 5 years.
Jake Tower
Banned
I'm so glad they just decided to expedite things by killing us all on their own.
Not if the reapers pretty much said "Stop fucking around with AI or we'll kill you all"
That kind of interaction would stick around in the racial memory. Look at the Butlerian Jihad in Dune. Tens of thousands of years later, AI is still forbidden after they were nearly wiped out by machines.
...So just let us kill ourselves? Why do they give a fuck?
Empty Space
Member
This meme never gets old.
Most of this event has just amused me, but for some reason every time I see that picture I just get angry the stupidity of it all seems to concentrated in that one meme.
Robot Pants
Member
About The Crucible,
If The Catalyst is the final ingredient to making the thing work, and The Catalyst is apparently in control of everything here including the Reapers, wouldn't that suggest that the "leaked plans" for The Crucible were created by The Cataylst? (God this story is retarded)
After all you still need The Citadel to make it work, also created by The Catalyst, or is part of The Catalyst I guess. Whatever.
I mean it almost seemed like it was a test. After who knows how many cycles, one cycle was able to band together and complete it. Proving that organics (and possibly synthetics) were worthy of a different fate?
As stupid as the whole Crucible thing was, once I got to the Starkid I figured that was what was going on. I mean that would make some sense.
If The Catalyst is the final ingredient to making the thing work, and The Catalyst is apparently in control of everything here including the Reapers, wouldn't that suggest that the "leaked plans" for The Crucible were created by The Cataylst? (God this story is retarded)
After all you still need The Citadel to make it work, also created by The Catalyst, or is part of The Catalyst I guess. Whatever.
I mean it almost seemed like it was a test. After who knows how many cycles, one cycle was able to band together and complete it. Proving that organics (and possibly synthetics) were worthy of a different fate?
As stupid as the whole Crucible thing was, once I got to the Starkid I figured that was what was going on. I mean that would make some sense.
Honestly, that's a question I don't know the answer. :\ Maybe they're just so evolved they don't want to see the organics being wiped out, they might think they're necessary for the right balance of things.
EXACTLY.
It writes itself if you don't know how to write a good twist.
You already forgot? They did it to preserver organic life in Reaper form.
I have never heard of the logic of "AI will eventually develop the need to kill all organic" in a Sci-fi novel. It's a retarded premise to start with.
Even if it's true in the ME universe, it still make no sense for the super AI to create the "cycle". If AI is so smart it will just dominate the organic world so much that it will treat all organic lives as ants. Do you kill all ants? No you just limit them in a corner and pay no attention to them. This is a much more realistic premise and it has shown in many hard and soft Sci-fi novels.
This just to show that the original premise of Mass Effect was built on such a fragile sci-fi foundation that it collapsed in its own weight when the writer attempted to write (and failed horribly) an ending that's a hair bit more intelligent than the premise.
Jake Tower
Banned
Yup, I tried guessing the ending and thought the Crucible and Reapers would be a test created by some God-Being/Race to see if everyone could like totally make love not war and work together in galactic unity. Sort like an ancient Ozymandias pulling a galactic practical joke tricking every race to work together.
Like the Star Trek TNG episode, 'The Chase' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbHGYlB7208
WrenchNinja
Member
Heres something I havent seen discussed. When we go to Thessia, Vendetta says that events within every cycle repeat every time in different ways and then begins to say that the Reapers arent the ones influencing the cycles and are only part of it alluding to some kind of ominous puppetmaster.
When we meet Catalyst we find that hes only an AI , so he could not be the one making events repeat. So whats the deal?
When we meet Catalyst we find that hes only an AI , so he could not be the one making events repeat. So whats the deal?
Yeah, but why preserve organic life? That's never explicitly answered in the game, I think.
bigace33
Member
lol what a lamebrain ending and reason behind the Reapers attack. They should have just said the Reapers do not like Organic life or something. Their whole mission is to eradicate it. I remember reading this comic series where this so called god (Not the one true living God) saw mankind on earth getting into all kinds of things, and pretty much destroying the earth. It was said that this thing saw humanity and all living things as an infestation of sorts, and set out to effectively exterminate all life. It was crazy, but it makes more sense than what vent kid was saying.
Robot Pants
Member
Something about lifting them up to a higher plain of existence. I dunno.
Reapers are probably all addicted to house music and ecstasy.
You didn't pay attention to the story, did you?
That'd make sense, lol.
CharmingCharlie
Member
How about this for "Lots of speculation from Everyone", we are told by the Catalyst AI that the reason for the 50,000 year cycle is to cull advanced civillisations and prevent them from developing an AI that will eventually kill Organic life right ?
But what if the Catalyst was pulling a "Casey" on Shepard ? what if the Catalyst was actually lying and the reason why the Reapers pop for tea and biscuits every 50,000 years is to prevent an organic civillisation from evolving to be more powerful than the Catalyst and the Reapers.
But what if the Catalyst was pulling a "Casey" on Shepard ? what if the Catalyst was actually lying and the reason why the Reapers pop for tea and biscuits every 50,000 years is to prevent an organic civillisation from evolving to be more powerful than the Catalyst and the Reapers.
That was one of the cool aspects about ME. The Reapers viewed organics as ants. They are superior in all ways possible. To say that organics are worthless in the first game, to later negate it though the importance of organics (who should be preserved because AI will kill them or because they join the Reapers themselves) makes no sense.
It was stated that organic life is special, in general. If all synthetics wiped out organics, there wouldn't be remnants of it in the universe. So they tried to preserve it in a Reaper baggy.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
It's actually featured to some degree in several sci-fi stories, at least to some degree. I, Robot, but Isaac Asimov was one I can think of off the top of my head. Granted, it's robot control rather than robot destruction, but eh, it still is silly.
The premise is based off the fact that eventually, a shared synthetic consciousness will become advanced enough to improve itself both on hardware and software upgrades without organic life. Since they are more efficient than organics, why bother interacting with them, and not rise above them?
I think the premise is built upon the fact that organics will always find a way to develop synthetics up to the singularity point, hence the catalyst saying the cycle has repeated for many times, as well as the Prothean VI on Thessia.
Can you blame him?
Dr. Ray is very nice about accepting people he doesn't know as friends on facebook. I can't imagine, though, he wants to use his personal facebook account as a platform for every BioWare fan's complaints about his titles.
I know you think you were being polite and respectful, and your wording probably was just that. But he has the right to decide he doesn't want to be the bad guy on his own facebook page.
The thing I thought about (and I really thought about it after I finished the game) was that their way of preserving life was to let it grow just enough, before it fell into chaos. Allowing organics to expand just enough -that is, up to their space travel phase- permits them to colonize new worlds and bring new life to them. Harvesting advanced organic life then would allow these new worlds to grow on their own. At one point I think, order as this guy sees it, is to permit life to expand throughout the galaxy without letting any one organic form dominate it completely or get wiped out in a war with other organics/synthetics.
I mean, it is the only thing that makes sense, but even then it ignores a lot of other factors like non-sapient species able to travel through deep space and colonize worlds by themselves (like how Thresher Maws do), it also ignores the fact that the Reapers seem to be really violent about their harvesting and preservation, indoctrinating species and creating more war, chaos and uncertainty in sapient species who will inevitably pass their message on ... and even then, neither ending really points out that this is the desirable path. So in the end I dismissed it as the clusterfuck it is.
bigace33
Member
I'm trying bro. So ventkid is not connected to the Reapers? I thought he said he controlled them? I'm lost now. lol
Barack Lesnar
Banned
word salad lol gonna remember that
The theory was, if left unchecked, synthetics in any given cycle will rise up and eradicate ALL organic life. Period. Forever. Reapers step in to make sure that end point never occurs. Think if the Reapers stepped in before humans invented AI in the Matrix. Result being organic lifr saved...cost being humans go byebye.
In that case, preserving them for posterity is like a really fucked up museum.
Robot Pants
Member
ventkid, lol. He controls them, but their mission is to preserve organics by destroying the more developed ones.
They already subverted that with ME2, when it's revealed that reapers are built from the civilizations they cull each cycle. They made it up as they went, that's all there is to it. That, and other people started making it up as they went.
bigace33
Member
Right, they preserve organic life in a really twisted kind of way. I'm saying they should have just left it at the Reapers being these monstrosities who hate organic life period. No trying to preserve nothing, just bent on the eradication of organic life. That would make much more sense than this organic preservation story line.
GasProblem
Member
So, I just finished the game.
Uh. Right.
I chose Synthesis.
One question. All the Mass Relays are destroyed right? What happens to the thousands and thousands of ships that helped retake Earth. Are all the people that were in the ships stranded on a ravaged Earth?
And why was Joker fleeing Earth with the Normandy? They just bailed on Shepard? lol.
Uh. Right.
I chose Synthesis.
One question. All the Mass Relays are destroyed right? What happens to the thousands and thousands of ships that helped retake Earth. Are all the people that were in the ships stranded on a ravaged Earth?
And why was Joker fleeing Earth with the Normandy? They just bailed on Shepard? lol.
dragonelite
Member
I thought about it too.
But then i thought fuck it before i ruin the series even more for me.
I'm sure plenty have fapped to that.
Talimancers, they are something else.
I know that was one of the points in the parenthesis. Those civilizations become reapers themselves, so it's idiotic that they would say organics are totally worthless. So worthless you make them join your party? Eh.
Hellsing321
Member
The thread title will answer all of your questions.
I dislike limitations, so I'm going all out.
1. Garrus - The best bro you could have, stuck with you from day 1 (though he wasn't nearly as interesting in the first game), and provided the powerful Overload to a player who generally was not interested in technical powers. He is the best friend you could possibly ask for.
2. Wrex - A different kind of bro, but just as awesome. He had the best lines from ME1 and his arc in bringing you the genophage cure brought a smile to my face with how grateful he was. He is awesome.
3. Mordin - His personality was as amusing as his moral conflict was deep. Everything that came out of his mouth was pure entertainment, and while the genophage is a very grey moral dilemna. I'm glad he found closure at ME3 (which is more than what most of us got)
4. Liara - Mai Waifu. She isn't so much as deep as she is just very likable. Her naive, shy personality in the first game turned much harsher in the second and third, but some of the things she did were still very touching (like that entire scene where she wants to store the memory of Shepard)
5. Samara - She comes across to me as a very wise figure and a very conflicted woman. Having to hunt down and kill the daughter she still clearly loves and while being forced to choose between what she wants and what her code dictates was a very interesting story to play out, even if I wholeheartedly disagree with the code itself. Fascinating character to spend time with.
6. Legion - Legions is kind of cheating because by looking at him, we're not looking at him alone but looking at all Geth. Still, this window that he provided into their culture rocked many a world, turned a stereotypical AI gone rogue enemy into a pretty fascinating insight into the idea of consciousness. He was also hilarious.
7. EDI - Her progress from emotionless AI to a living consciousness is an interesting one. Much like Legion, she turned the AI gone rogue trope on it's head. I had thought that it went as far as it should in ME2, but they decided to take it even further in ME3, which at times worked really, really well....most of the time. In any case, a thoroughly entertaining character.
8. Grunt - Very fun character. His entire introspective journey into trying to figure himself out endeared me to his character. He's such a child in so many ways, and I was glad to help him grow up because he is going to be the perfect Krogan and the example that all other Krogan model themselves after.
9. Kasumi - Can't say much about character depth, but I really like her upbeat personality and there's something about her voice that's just irresistibly charming.
10. Thane - He's a very low key character that I didn't initially care for, but I ended up enjoying his story of how he met his wife and his struggles to reconcile with his son. The prayer he gave on his deathbed was heartfelt.
11. Ashley - People seem to hate her for being spiciest, but that is really selling her character short, imo. It goes deeper than that. And I enjoy her connection to family. She's an enjoyable character.
12. Jack - I know a lot of people dislike this character and I can understand why in some cases, but I thought she was a great addition to the cast if only because she is the result of what happens when the very worst of all that is in the ME universe happens to her. Some say that she was out of place, but I would argue that's the point, and trying to heal her deep psychological wounds was great character development for her, especially when you see what she's up to next game.
13. Morinth - Most people probably never got this character, but I found her fascinating. She's an utter monster, but it's not like she chose to be that. Her rebellion against being put in the monastery are perfectly understandable and I'd think any one of us would do the same in her position. But she is still a monster all the same, hurting people indiscriminately and loving it.
14. Tali - One would think she'd be higher up on the list given her popularity, but I guess I just never liked her as much. Also, she died in my ME2 run, so I saw none of her in 3. She probably would have been higher if not for that, she didn't make as much of an impact for me.
15. Morinth - Most people probably never got this character, but I found her fascinating. She's an utter monster, but it's not like she chose to be that. Her rebellion against being put in the monastery are perfectly understandable and I'd think any one of us would do the same in her position. But she is still a monster all the same, hurting people indiscriminately and loving it.
16. Miranda - DAT ASS. And I'm not even an ass guy. I also relate to her very well regarding controlling parents and being able to take credit for your own accomplishments. Still, for whatever reason I never found myself particularly attached to her character. However, I did think her confession about her guilt was really nice in ME3. I almost wish I saw more of her now.
17. Javik - I didn't like him for the majority of the game. He was just a dick. Which would be fine, but he's wasn't a clever dick. He was so one note and predictable. Every solution is "kill it". Still, at the end, he mellowed out and I started liking him more, so there's that.
18. Zaeed - I enjoyed his war stories. Shame he wasn't more interactive.
19. Kaiden - His character actually isn't that boring, but the voice actor sure goes out of his way to make it seem so.
20. Vega - Actually is boring, but his voice actor makes him seem better than he is by interacting with better characters.
21. Jacob - I don't know, I fell asleep whenever I talked to him.
1. Garrus - The best bro you could have, stuck with you from day 1 (though he wasn't nearly as interesting in the first game), and provided the powerful Overload to a player who generally was not interested in technical powers. He is the best friend you could possibly ask for.
2. Wrex - A different kind of bro, but just as awesome. He had the best lines from ME1 and his arc in bringing you the genophage cure brought a smile to my face with how grateful he was. He is awesome.
3. Mordin - His personality was as amusing as his moral conflict was deep. Everything that came out of his mouth was pure entertainment, and while the genophage is a very grey moral dilemna. I'm glad he found closure at ME3 (which is more than what most of us got)
4. Liara - Mai Waifu. She isn't so much as deep as she is just very likable. Her naive, shy personality in the first game turned much harsher in the second and third, but some of the things she did were still very touching (like that entire scene where she wants to store the memory of Shepard)
5. Samara - She comes across to me as a very wise figure and a very conflicted woman. Having to hunt down and kill the daughter she still clearly loves and while being forced to choose between what she wants and what her code dictates was a very interesting story to play out, even if I wholeheartedly disagree with the code itself. Fascinating character to spend time with.
6. Legion - Legions is kind of cheating because by looking at him, we're not looking at him alone but looking at all Geth. Still, this window that he provided into their culture rocked many a world, turned a stereotypical AI gone rogue enemy into a pretty fascinating insight into the idea of consciousness. He was also hilarious.
7. EDI - Her progress from emotionless AI to a living consciousness is an interesting one. Much like Legion, she turned the AI gone rogue trope on it's head. I had thought that it went as far as it should in ME2, but they decided to take it even further in ME3, which at times worked really, really well....most of the time. In any case, a thoroughly entertaining character.
8. Grunt - Very fun character. His entire introspective journey into trying to figure himself out endeared me to his character. He's such a child in so many ways, and I was glad to help him grow up because he is going to be the perfect Krogan and the example that all other Krogan model themselves after.
9. Kasumi - Can't say much about character depth, but I really like her upbeat personality and there's something about her voice that's just irresistibly charming.
10. Thane - He's a very low key character that I didn't initially care for, but I ended up enjoying his story of how he met his wife and his struggles to reconcile with his son. The prayer he gave on his deathbed was heartfelt.
11. Ashley - People seem to hate her for being spiciest, but that is really selling her character short, imo. It goes deeper than that. And I enjoy her connection to family. She's an enjoyable character.
12. Jack - I know a lot of people dislike this character and I can understand why in some cases, but I thought she was a great addition to the cast if only because she is the result of what happens when the very worst of all that is in the ME universe happens to her. Some say that she was out of place, but I would argue that's the point, and trying to heal her deep psychological wounds was great character development for her, especially when you see what she's up to next game.
13. Morinth - Most people probably never got this character, but I found her fascinating. She's an utter monster, but it's not like she chose to be that. Her rebellion against being put in the monastery are perfectly understandable and I'd think any one of us would do the same in her position. But she is still a monster all the same, hurting people indiscriminately and loving it.
14. Tali - One would think she'd be higher up on the list given her popularity, but I guess I just never liked her as much. Also, she died in my ME2 run, so I saw none of her in 3. She probably would have been higher if not for that, she didn't make as much of an impact for me.
15. Morinth - Most people probably never got this character, but I found her fascinating. She's an utter monster, but it's not like she chose to be that. Her rebellion against being put in the monastery are perfectly understandable and I'd think any one of us would do the same in her position. But she is still a monster all the same, hurting people indiscriminately and loving it.
16. Miranda - DAT ASS. And I'm not even an ass guy. I also relate to her very well regarding controlling parents and being able to take credit for your own accomplishments. Still, for whatever reason I never found myself particularly attached to her character. However, I did think her confession about her guilt was really nice in ME3. I almost wish I saw more of her now.
17. Javik - I didn't like him for the majority of the game. He was just a dick. Which would be fine, but he's wasn't a clever dick. He was so one note and predictable. Every solution is "kill it". Still, at the end, he mellowed out and I started liking him more, so there's that.
18. Zaeed - I enjoyed his war stories. Shame he wasn't more interactive.
19. Kaiden - His character actually isn't that boring, but the voice actor sure goes out of his way to make it seem so.
20. Vega - Actually is boring, but his voice actor makes him seem better than he is by interacting with better characters.
21. Jacob - I don't know, I fell asleep whenever I talked to him.
AzureNightmare
Banned
He doesn't have to be the bad guy though. all he has to do is legitimately address the concerns that are being vocalized by his company's fanbase. Its such a token gesture that would show respect but instead he seems intent to try and maintain the appearance that his company is being victimized by "unreasonable consumers". its utterly ridiculous.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.
If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.
Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.
Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
Tell us how you really feel?
Just don't run into any lasers.
Honestly, the only 'problem' I could accept them wanting to solve is entropy. The eventual heat death of the universe. That's a pretty big problem, possibly worth both hurrying along the development of space-faring species and their 'preservation'. If the reapers need a purpose, let it be that. Let it be something more fantastical, something you don't solve yourself. Not to mention: If synthetic/organic conflict is the reason, why not target the god damned Quarians? Why humanity?
Great. Controlled evolution. Breeding for variety. That'd be another respectable reason. They could even explain away why they would target humans, seeing how they expanded so quickly. But no.
He's not going to address that shit on fucking facebook.
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