Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Dresden said:
This should've been the real Tali, just to see the horror of all the tali fans.

tali_zorah_unmasked_by_vbled-d3l73oq.jpg
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I can almost smell her sweat . . .
 
AzureNightmare said:
He doesn't have to be the bad guy though. all he has to do is legitimately address the concerns that are being vocalized by his company's fanbase. Its such a token gesture that would show respect but instead he seems intent to try and maintain the appearance that his company is being victimized by "unreasonable consumers". its utterly ridiculous.
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I know you're upset. A lot of people are upset. But don't get mad that Dr. Ray wants to use his facebook page in a different way than you want him to.

And, really, I don't think we need to belabor this point any further.
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.

If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.

Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
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We appreciate your feedback. Now would you kindly take your logic and fuck off. Thank you so much.


TRUE STORY

not to mention the fact that the catalyst has been sitting there for millions of years, doing.... what?
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.

If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.

Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
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I was in the middle of posting something just like this but then I scrapped it.
I figured this could maybe be overlooked because in order to take advantage of The Reaper technology, organics would have had to have already -maybe not mastered- but had a pretty good grasp on space travel. And if they could do that with no problems, then AI and sythetic creation probably wouldn't have had been too far behind, or had already been done.
But I agree Reapers leaving their tech around definitely didn't help to prolong the process.
It really just comes down to Mac Walters retconning just about everything important since ME1.
I talked a lot about it in my really long post that was ignored 80 pages ago due to the Faster Than Light speed of this thread.
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.
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All that tech is a complimentary gift the Reapers give everyone.

Hey, you're smart enough to get to the Citadel. Here are a few gifts. Enjoy them? Good. Now die.
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.

If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.

Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
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Let it go EatChildren, we have already established how bs the whole idea is. I think it's time accept that 'it is what it is' and move on to other games.
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.

If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.

Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
Click to expand...
The Reapers only leave behind the technology they need to comeback: mass relays and the citadel. That's a good point about ME1, though.
 
I don't get how a developer w/ a team of writers, that were able to construct some of the best characters in scifi had trouble with the ending. I'm not knowledgeable of writing in the game industry ect. so I don't want to pass jugement, but it seems like they had the resources to make something great.

And also, what did Drew have to leave? What an ass. He probably wont ever get to work on such an epic trilogy again... wouldn't that be the ultimate for a writer?
 
Darknessbear said:
I don't get how a developer w/ a team of writers, that were able to construct some of the best characters in scifi had trouble with the ending. I'm not knowledgeable of writing in the game industry ect. so I don't want to pass jugement, but it seems like they had the resources to make something great.
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They thought that leaving everything vague would be for the best.
 
inky said:
The thing I thought about (and I really thought about it after I finished the game) was that their way of preserving life was to let it grow just enough, before it fell into chaos. Allowing organics to expand just enough -that is, up to their space travel phase- permits them to colonize new worlds and bring new life to them. Harvesting advanced organic life then would allow these new worlds to grow on their own. At one point I think, order as this guy sees it, is to permit life to expand throughout the galaxy without letting any one organic form dominate it completely or get wiped out in a war with other organics/synthetics.

I mean, it is the only thing that makes sense, but even then it ignores a lot of other factors like non-sapient species able to travel through deep space and colonize worlds by themselves (like how Thresher Maws do), it also ignores the fact that the Reapers seem to be really violent about their harvesting and preservation, indoctrinating species and creating more war, chaos and uncertainty in sapient species who will inevitably pass their message on ... and even then, neither ending really points out that this is the desirable path. So in the end I dismissed it as the clusterfuck it is.
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I see to preserve organics from completely wiping each other out, they cull once they reach a certain technological threshold (50000 years) and let other organics take over, hence repeating the cycle. If the cycle is not in place, organics from the galaxy would be completely wiped out instead of younger races given a chance to develop (then die). Indorination and extreme methods of distablizing civilization are all going towards a easier/faster culling

I just wished bioware sticked with their guns and just let the reapers be a consuming force. Let the reason they using the cycle is to constantly grow and adopt the genetic diversity that millions of races provide once they reach technological maturity. Don't just throw us this bullshit about preserving organic life through death at the very last minute in order to elevate the ending further than what it already is. Fans want a satisfying ending not some pseudo-philisophical ending regarding the relationship between synthetics and organics.
 
Darknessbear said:
I don't get how a developer w/ a team of writers, that were able to construct some of the best characters in scifi had trouble with the ending. I'm not knowledgeable of writing in the game industry ect. so I don't want to pass jugement, but it seems like they had the resources to make something great.
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Blame Mac Walters. Bioware has other great writers, but he sucks. He's the one who insisted on making the ending the way it is.
 
Red Kool aid is obviously the best ending. It is the only way you get to fuck up Vent Kid. He is like, lol, this happens if you do this. We die, but war and death and terrible things. That is obviously bad. You don't want that, right Shepard.

Shepard: Um, I don't know. Okay.

Walks directly to glass tubes. Blows tubes up.

Shepard: Ha, fuck you vent kid

Supernovas the relays, Super saiyans back to Earth.

Shepard: The fuck did everybody go. Pussies.

Game Over.
 
littleworm said:
They also leave them behind so all civilizations will develop in the way they (reapers) desire.
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Which seems to be the way in which they could give them the most trouble, finding backdoors to attack them, using their own weapons against them, finding their "code", and having an intergalactic network that allows every species to be in instant contact with one another and know when the reapers are coming from them, when and how as to form a resistance and even plan on how to destroy them.

Maybe the reapers are really just bored and enjoy a challenge every 50k years.
 
I'd like to believe that the reapers were made by a neighbouring galaxy in order to stop the technological advancement of our galaxy and us eventually going to war with them.
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.

If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.

Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
Click to expand...
Yea what the hell, they used the Geth to kill organics, so we wont have problems with synthetics. But we wouldnt have had a problem with synthetics if they didn't make them go crazy and fight us. And if they would have won, what would have happened to the geth? They'd have destroyed all of them. Then why not just do that every 50k years?


Generic said:
Blame Mac Walters. Bioware has other great writers, but he sucks. He's the one who insisted on making the ending the way it is.
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He signed my Mass Effect 2... and I was standing right next to Mac and Casey for like 5 minutes. I could have ended it...
 
Metroidvania said:
It's actually featured to some degree in several sci-fi stories, at least to some degree. I, Robot, but Isaac Asimov was one I can think of off the top of my head. Granted, it's robot control rather than robot destruction, but eh, it still is silly.

The premise is based off the fact that eventually, a shared synthetic consciousness will become advanced enough to improve itself both on hardware and software upgrades without organic life. Since they are more efficient than organics, why bother interacting with them, and not rise above them?
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First of all, the 3 laws of robotics is pretty dumb. There was a lengthy podcast some college professor explained why the laws were "magical rules" not Sci-fi rules.

But the cool thing about them is that Isaac Asimov was very consistent with the laws. He actually believed in these laws. So in many books he stuck to his gun and used these laws as plot device to solve the endings.

If BioWare uses the premise they established in the first game to solve the final conflict, I would not have any problem with the ending, regardless how stupid the premises were.

BioWare couldn't even keep the premise consistent within the same game. We had already established a few missions ago it was possible for the synthetics and the organics to make peace.

I think the premise is built upon the fact that organics will always find a way to develop synthetics up to the singularity point, hence the catalyst saying the cycle has repeated for many times, as well as the Prothean VI on Thessia.
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If, for example, the Starchild stated the reason why it was so important to preserve organic then I would have cut the ending some slant. And then again, one race of orgainics develop to the point of killing itself by the way of creating synthetics, in no way does it equal the destruction of all other organic races.

So it's very easy to point out even the few sentences of the starchild are contracting each other. This ending is fucked.

You couldn't make a worse ending even if you try. Miranda can come out and reveal that she was frequently raped by her father and her sister is actually her daughter, and it wouldn't be a worse ending.
 
EatChildren said:
Not to mention the entire technological evolutionary curve is dictated by technology left behind by the reapers. Like, every piece of advanced technology, with a handful of exceptions, only exists because it is built off reverse engineered Reaper technology. FLT drives? Check. Weapons? Check. Shielding? Check. Galactic travel? Check. Citadel? Check. Relays? Check.

If the whole idea was to postpone and prevent the rise of synthetic technology, wouldn't it be smarter to not lay the foundations for advanced technology? Even if it were inevitable, and each cycle must be completed, you could delay the cycle significantly and give every organic species longer time to live by not thrusting them forward several thousand years worth of technological evolution. The only reason anybody is advanced as far as they are is because of the Reaper technology.

Then we've got the Geth in Mass Effect 1, who were a non-issue to anybody other than the Quarians (who provoked their own war), until Sovereign and Saren decided to use them as the bulk of their military force. Prior to that the biggest galactic scale wars involved organics fighting organics. The Rachni almost wiped out everyone, and the Krogan were a similar problem.
Click to expand...
Which were indoctrinated by Sovereign to begin with. That leave the Krogan rebellions that probably would never have happened without the Rachni Wars.
 
Darknessbear said:
And also, what did Drew have to leave? What an ass. He probably wont ever get to work on such an epic trilogy again... wouldn't that be the ultimate for a writer?
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He's just a writer, who as lead writer had some creative control, but nowhere near as much as you're making it out to be. And that creative control was probably gone the moment they signed with EA anyway. Not that I want to make EA sound bad here, but that is just a reality of publisher-developer relations AFAIK.

Being a single writer on his own novels gives him the chance to make something his, and his alone. He could never have made 'his mass effect' since he wasn't the project lead.

And then there is a reason why the Bioshock team is rumored not to want to have wanted to work with Ken Levine again. Pushing a single vision is not going to make you friends anywhere. But it's required to get a single (art) idea published.

So... be careful what you wish for, I guess.
 
inky said:
Which seems to be the way in which they could give them the most trouble, finding backdoors to attack them, using their own weapons against them, finding their "code", and having an intergalactic network that allows every species to be in instant contact with one another and know when the reapers are coming from them, when and how as to form a resistance and even plan on how to destroy them.

Maybe the reapers are really just bored and enjoy a challenge.
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I think this only highlights the reapers weaknesses, they made the citadel knowing it's where the organics would put most of their political power, thus they would be wiped out when the reapers fist appear at the citadel. The mass relays also make sure the organics don't develop other forms of FTL travel, and limits where they will colonize. This means when the Reapers come to clean house they have a good blueprint of the galaxy, they can cut off the head of organic power and gain valuable intel about the space faring species, as mentioned by Vigil on Ilos.
 
inky said:
So, what are your thoughts on Garrus and Tali hooking up in the end guys? D'awwww /Trollface
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Personally loved it/almost wish it happened earlier in the game or ME2.


Still mad my male shep accidentally romanced the god awful ashley (wish I could have killed her and kaiden in Me1) over liara (I didn't have a save before the decision so I was boned), so I settled for tali, which then led to making my fem shep romance liara when I wish I had her with garrus.

Male shep - Liara
Female shep - Garrus Is my ideal but I fucked it up.
 
Robot Pants said:
About The Crucible,
If The Catalyst is the final ingredient to making the thing work, and The Catalyst is apparently in control of everything here including the Reapers, wouldn't that suggest that the "leaked plans" for The Crucible were created by The Cataylst? (God this story is retarded)
After all you still need The Citadel to make it work, also created by The Catalyst, or is part of The Catalyst I guess. Whatever.

I mean it almost seemed like it was a test. After who knows how many cycles, one cycle was able to band together and complete it. Proving that organics (and possibly synthetics) were worthy of a different fate?
As stupid as the whole Crucible thing was, once I got to the Starkid I figured that was what was going on. I mean that would make some sense.
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I said, err, tens and tens of pages ago essentially the same thing, the way the Crucible works with the Citadel and in the terrible dialog we did get about I could only assume that it was probably there in the beginning when this whole mess started and was probably part of ending the problems the first race were having or reseting the galaxy to start off the cycles.

Then as we go through cycles certain races get a hold of it and it changes from a universe reset to something more to what we see, controlling the Reapers, combining synthetics with organics or just outright destroying synthetics.

But who knows, wasn't great writing to begin with, I would have preferred if who we made alliances with and what we did during the games had an affect on what the crucible did, so your stance on synthetics or who you allied yourself with would give you certain options like controlling the Reapers or not.

hateradio said:
It writes itself if you don't know how to write a good twist.


You already forgot? They did it to preserver organic life in Reaper form.
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Which is a big problem in the first place when writers feel they need to have this big twist, we didn't need a twist at the end, just an outcome on how we played, maybe an explanation of things that are inline with how the universe and lore has progressed in the games and certain not the tripe we got at the end that came out of nowhere.
 
So I finally finished the game, and was a little surprised to find THAT was the ending that pissed so many people off.

Now, I think it could have been executed better, but the general idea of it seemed rather obvious to me from the moment
You speak to the Reaper on Rannoch, just before it dies. Where it talks of how the Reapers are necessary for organic life to continue. It seemed obvious that there were forces in play that created the Reapers to that end, and that cycle of life and death was immutable.
 
Achtius said:
No, this is a creep fact

Another creep fact:
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The second one isn't that creepy. Kaiden was obviously drunk the whole game, so I'm sure he couldn't manage to pull of some biotic sex moves.


I don't want to turn this into the bad fan art thread, but wow. I stumbled onto it because of tumblr.
 
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