Mutant Mudds Steam REJECTED

I really hope GOG ends up filling this void (as in, games rejected by Steam). I always buy on GOG over Steam whenever there is a possibility, assuming there's not a ridiculous sale on Steam featuring the game in question for a way lower price than GOG. Either way, DRM-free always beats Steam in my book. Hopefully the GOG catalogue will receive plenty of modern indie games in the future. Resonance was an amazing start.
 
Why though? It surely still makes money...

Were they worried it'd be very low level cheap and start some iOS crap? Its £8 on e-shop!
Thats not fucking cheap!

Strange decision. But I understand why they hold the ability to 'block' games; but this is weird as its not like its a cheap/terrible game?
 
I really hope GOG ends up filling this void (as in, games rejected by Steam). I always buy on GOG over Steam whenever there is a possibility, assuming there's not a ridiculous sale on Steam featuring the game in question for a way lower price than GOG. Either way, DRM-free always beats Steam in my book. Hopefully the GOG catalogue will receive plenty of modern indie games in the future. Resonance was an amazing start.

GoG will not fill the void. They work with spotlighting titles. Not shoveling large amounts of shit out.

The problem is largely gamers' refusal to buy anything not Steam. The most god awful responses right now on this forum(Well, outside of "When is the Summer Sale!"), has been is it Steamworks? Is it up on Steam? I refuse to buy it if its not on Steam. Steam, Steam, Steam. Most annoying one I've seen was someone refusing to buy a title on Amazon, for the price they wanted at the time they wanted. Followed by saying how Valve is falling behind and how Amazon/CDProjeck should be offering Steam keys too. And this attitude plays out to many areas. If its not up on Steam, it might as well not even exist. Many will never hear of it. Even if they do, many will have no interest till its up on Steam anyways.
 
Perhaps it's just not a very good game in their eyes? It's an incredibly basic platformer and there's no 3DS screen tricks they can use with their layering system on PC.
 
http://www.develop-online.net/features/1187/Valve-on-Steam

develop-online: The internal struggle there then, surely, is that if you want to maintain the value of the Steam collection, you’ll need to be more selective with what games you’ll put on there. You’ll have to be harder on submissions, because you don’t want to flood your own market.

JH: I don’t think we’re going to be harder on submissions. We’ve always been open to take a look at anyone’s game. We always love being surprised by the amazing things we find.
Mind you, sometimes we make mistakes with our submissions process. We’re not perfect. Usually we’ll have a group of about eight to ten people looking at all the different submissions we get.
Sometimes we’ll think the game doesn’t fit, and a month later we’ll get a mail from a disgruntled developer saying ‘this is what you said, and this is how many thousands and thousands of copies of my game I have sold since you said that’.

We’re always looking for the same thing. Is it fun? Is it done? Does it represent value? I don’t think that we’re going to change those rules – we’re not going to be harder in our submission process.
 
well, that stinks. good luck on GOG, Jools.

Perhaps it's just not a very good game in their eyes? It's an incredibly basic platformer and there's no 3DS screen tricks they can use with their layering system on PC.

That might be a fair evaluation, were it based on roughly 10 seconds of footage with the audio turned off.
 
The most common reason I have seen a game rejected from Steam is because it is limited to like 240p. A recent example of this was NightSky. Valve ended up adding it on Steam because he was in some Indie competition they were promoting and he had an "HD" revision in the works.

competes with a valve game
Valve actually delayed the release of Alien Swarm, their free top-down remake of a UE2 mod done by the team members that they hired from the mod, so that Alien Breed could release unopposed.

So they're a horrible company then.

I hate Valve. They don't provide anything really awesome and have such a strong grip on the PC market.

Oh boy.
 

Only reason people will disagree with that is because of Steam sales.

I hate any company that controls a market to the degree Valve does. Especially when they are not consumer friendly. Declining good games like this is bullcrap and people should be angry.

It is irresponsible to deny consumers a product like this. It is irresponsible to PC gamers everywhere because not allowing games on Steam basically kills 90% of the sales that game will ever see on PC.
 
Only reason people will disagree with that is because of Steam sales.

I hate any company that controls a market to the degree Valve does. Especially when they are not consumer friendly. Declining good games like this is bullcrap and people should be angry.

1. If you think the only "good" thing Steam offers is sales, then I don't know what to tell you.

2. Valve does not control a market, plenty of these indies show up on other platforms who get far fewer submissions to deal with. These devs just like to cry the hardest about Steam.

3. Valve and even Jonathan Blow have explained why good games can slip through the cracks and that the best way to make sure your game gets noticed to make a splash on the indie related websites and get some traction for your PC release. They have tons of bogus submissions to wade through and completely broken games because everyone and their mother wants to make money on Steam like it's the appstore.
 
Yeah I don't want Steam to be an app store. Maybe Steam need some kind of coding system to give devs a feel to what box they haven't ticked.

Mutant Mudds may still be picked up in time.
 
There's also plenty of people who refuse to purchase games that use Steamworks. Stardock commented on SoaSE lost sales due to that in an interview, but I can't seem to find it. Regardless of what Steam fans want, Valve have a long way to go before they become a monopoly.

But I also think that 100% of the people who hate steamworks games are people who love stardock games because they were the company most outspoken about steam a few years back and their message boards were one of the only places I've seen were the majority of users had an anti-steam agenda.
 
Steam is a video game store. If they're not selling all good PC games barring some exceptions (Blizzard), we have a problem.

Too bad Steam isn't run by fairies and unicorns. I love how you had to make an edit to throw in an exception proving that your expectations are already unrealistic.
 
Certainly Valve must have an appeals process for rejected submissions. Just get in touch with the submission guy's boss... oh, wait...
 
I don't think "if it's not on Steam, it might as well not exist" is indicative of anything other than the multitude of amazing games out there. We all have more games to play than time to play them, even people who are limited one console or with relatively limited taste. Pretty much every genre is filled to the brim with awesome stuff. That's the same reason why you see people here "waiting for sales" all the time--if we've already got enormous backlogs, the urgency of adding new games to it Right. This. Second is diminished. There'll always be something to play. And so rarely are there games that profoundly upend one's expectations that for the most part, the choice will be playing one of the excellent, A+ games we already have, or spending money on another potentially excellent, A+ game.

Add to that a fairly bright line distinction in terms of management within the Steam client (and to Valve's credit, they've finally added custom images in grid view and the screenshot function allows for users to set custom backgrounds, so non-Steam games look much better than they once did), Steamworks features like achievements, and community events like how the sales encourage people to buy and play a lot of independent games, and it's not surprising that people who get picky get picky in this exact way.

The suggestion I proposed to help solve this a little while ago is to pick a handful of independent developers who have already been successful on Steam, and allow them to "sponsor" in other independent developers. Not for a cut of the income or anything, I mean as an advisory role to Valve. It might even be worthwhile to get some Tastemakers in the loop--RPS springs to mind immediately. It'd be pretty easy to make a number of objective restrictions to help the process from being abused (for example, the game must be released, complete, and available right now to prevent games that seem promising in a preview but don't turn out all that great).

Certainly Valve must have an appeals process for rejected submissions. Just get in touch with the submission guy's boss... oh, wait...

The appeals process is to submit again with further press clippings and business analysis to help Valve understand what you bring to the table. Feep (GAF member) had to submit 3 or 4 times to Steam and only got on in the end after what I understand was basically a friend-of-a-friend connection landing him the ability to pitch to Valve in person. He's been extraordinarily successful and obviously Valve believes in his product because he's been featured as a daily deal and was a major part of the holiday sale last year.
 
But I also think that 100% of the people who hate steamworks games are people who love stardock games because they were the company most outspoken about steam a few years back and their message boards were one of the only places I've seen were the majority of users had an anti-steam agenda.

You should see amazon, a lot of people on there hate Steam. A lot of people actually really dislike Steam/Steamworks
 

Yeah, I figured out it was something like this. It's like Apple, the difference being Steam outright rejects the games they haven't looked into throughly while Apple will approve them and leave them up until someone complains.

The suggestion I proposed to help solve this a little while ago is to pick a handful of independent developers who have already been successful on Steam, and allow them to "sponsor" in other independent developers. Not for a cut of the income or anything, I mean as an advisory role to Valve. It might even be worthwhile to get some Tastemakers in the loop--RPS springs to mind immediately. It'd be pretty easy to make a number of objective restrictions to help the process from being abused (for example, the game must be released, complete, and available right now to prevent games that seem promising in a preview but don't turn out all that great).

"Hiring" outsiders to aid pre-filter the bogus submissions is a good idea. They could also make a more strict, but organized submission template that fails the submission if anything isn't filled in correctly, require the trademark registration info and a video of a substantial portion of the game (like one hour of gameplay or something like that).

They could also provide tools and documentation to make sure indies make games that aren't outright buggy messes and that integrate nicely with Steam. For example, a version of Steam developers can use to test Steam deployment before they even submit.
 
Only reason people will disagree with that is because of Steam sales.

I hate any company that controls a market to the degree Valve does. Especially when they are not consumer friendly. Declining good games like this is bullcrap and people should be angry.

It is irresponsible to deny consumers a product like this. It is irresponsible to PC gamers everywhere because not allowing games on Steam basically kills 90% of the sales that game will ever see on PC.

What do you mean by "control"? Have they created a situation where barrier to entry is too high for competitors? Have they engaged in anti-competitive practices? How exactly are they "controlling" the market? Is providing service that many like and make them prefer it called "control"?

What else does it offer? A chat client?

Well, if you deliberately choose to ignore what Steam offers or don't think much of Steam's features, then don't make assumptions on others' behalf, such as, people disagree with you only because of Steam sales.

Steam is a video game store. If they're not selling all good PC games barring some exceptions (Blizzard), we have a problem.

What is a 'good' game?
 
The appeals process is to submit again with further press clippings and business analysis to help Valve understand what you bring to the table. Feep (GAF member) had to submit 3 or 4 times to Steam and only got on in the end after what I understand was basically a friend-of-a-friend connection landing him the ability to pitch to Valve in person. He's been extraordinarily successful and obviously Valve believes in his product because he's been featured as a daily deal and was a major part of the holiday sale last year.
What is the name of his game?
 
I think the networking method of getting on Steam is pretty much the #1 way people get on there...maybe 5% of games might get lucky and make it through just a blind pitch to their external contact, but I really cannot believe that any more than that get through a super busy gatekeeper sort of person is just too busy to look through the massive amount of emails they get. That is why I think, whatever they are doing today, is not really fair to the talented devs that are not savvy enough to network like crazy and get through hoops to get on, and also whatever Valve is doing they are definitely pushing some sort of strategy or agenda so from the start it is way more like XBLA model than App Store.

I like both XBLA and App Store models. I think both deserve to exist on PC. Windows Store will fill the gap when Windows 8 comes out, but people like Steam today...it will be interesting to see if Windows Store can host enough indie games but Windows Store will also have the problem of Xbox Live games taking away a lot of attention from achievement-less game.
 
But I also think that 100% of the people who hate steamworks games are people who love stardock games because they were the company most outspoken about steam a few years back and their message boards were one of the only places I've seen were the majority of users had an anti-steam agenda.

you should see the paradox interactive boards :p
 
Do we know any other facts in this case? I've usually only heard of people being rejected for technical reasons (low resolution/steam overlay) or being priced higher than what Valve thinks they're worth.

Were they trying to get $15 or $10 for it?

Nah, but it is run by idiots apparently.

Those mega-rich idiots.

They are so stupid they don't know how to run the gold standard distribution platform they created.
 
Because I won't ever agree with Valve's policy of needlessly screwing over good games like this. It's unforgivable.

What makes you difficult to converse with is that:
a) you're operating on the idea that Valve is acting in bad faith; this is negligence, not malice, and it's a product of not having enough resources to make good decisions, not because they're all a bunch of idiots
b) you seem to be unable to separate your unhappiness with Valve in this case from Valve's general value as a company and Steam's general value as a service and user's motivations for liking and preferring Steam as a platform
c) you've proposed no solutions, other than than the problem shouldn't exist, while many of the rest of us have talked about solutions in this thread as well as elsewhere
d) you seem to be treating people that disagree with your tone as though they disagree with the premise that Valve could do a better job on indie submissions and approvals
 
What makes you difficult to converse with is that:
a) you're operating on the idea that Valve is acting in bad faith; this is negligence, not malice, and it's a product of not having enough resources to make good decisions, not because they're all a bunch of idiots
b) you seem to be unable to separate your unhappiness with Valve in this case from Valve's general value as a company and Steam's general value as a service and user's motivations for liking and preferring Steam as a platform
c) you've proposed no solutions, other than than the problem shouldn't exist, while many of the rest of us have talked about solutions in this thread as well as elsewhere
d) you seem to be treating people that disagree with your tone as though they disagree with the premise that Valve could do a better job on indie submissions and approvals

How on earth could they not have the resources to fix this with the amount of money they make?

They are so stupid they don't know how to run the gold standard distribution platform they created.

Clearly not if they're denying good games.
 
What makes you difficult to converse with is that:
a) you're operating on the idea that Valve is acting in bad faith; this is negligence, not malice, and it's a product of not having enough resources to make good decisions, not because they're all a bunch of idiots
b) you seem to be unable to separate your unhappiness with Valve in this case from Valve's general value as a company and Steam's general value as a service and user's motivations for liking and preferring Steam as a platform
c) you've proposed no solutions, other than than the problem shouldn't exist, while many of the rest of us have talked about solutions in this thread as well as elsewhere
d) you seem to be treating people that disagree with your tone as though they disagree with the premise that Valve could do a better job on indie submissions and approvals
if it is rejected due to the developer setting a high price entry, I don't see it being either due to negligence or a solvable problem;

however of course this is only one of the possible reasons for rejection, and even if it is the reason, it may be a sound business decision [for valve].

But in either case, I don't like labeling stuff as bad or good 'faith'; it's all, or mostly at least, about business decisions with the center being Valve profitability.
 
I loved the 3DS game too until I realised it was hard as all fuck and there was some odd design choices which made the game harder then it should be.

Really? It wasn't "easy", but compared to other retro-styled games, it was a cakewalk. There were only two levels I remember which provided any significant amount of challenge.
 
What makes you difficult to converse with is that:
a) you're operating on the idea that Valve is acting in bad faith; this is negligence, not malice, and it's a product of not having enough resources to make good decisions, not because they're all a bunch of idiots

There are examples in this thread when they've even answered to emails and rejected admission 2-3 times even when developer gave them examples of great press reviews and users comments. I dont see how it was problem of resources in this case and not policy.
Also not giving a reason of rejection is awful behavior.
 
For guys that have previously played Mutant Mudds. Do you guys believe the game would lose something without the 3D effect?
 
For guys that have previously played Mutant Mudds. Do you guys believe the game would lose something without the 3D effect?

No. It plays fine in 2d mode. Sometimes its preferable.

But the game loses value when its in competition with the varies other titles on Steam. The E-Shop is barren, Steam isn't.

The product isn't good enough to be put on that store near the 8 pounds in price. I kinda regret my purchase. But on handheld you know it's decent.

Couldn't he release the game himself with paypal payments off his own website? Wouldn't that be the solution to an Indie PC release?
 
Ugh, don't get me started on Steam. At least we have another friend in the Steam Rejects club!

Fun fact: Before all the bundle mayhem started I thought it'd be cool to do a "Steam Rejects" bundle. But most of the people I talked to were scared to do it as it might lessen the chance to be on Steam in the future. Gah.
 
Whenever I hear news like this my mind always jumps to Eternity's Child being accepted on Steam despite the jump button not even properly working for the first month of release.
 
I remember NightSky getting rejected initially for lack of resolution options or something....which I don't recall if they ever fixed.
 
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