Phonomezer
Banned
You know, we'll look back at these at the end of next gen and laugh.
Totilo article on Wii U's power. New rumors, analysis of getting PS4/720 ports
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You know, we'll look back at these at the end of next gen and laugh.
krypt0nian
Banned
Most importantly, "Performance orphan" is a thing now.
test_account
XP-39C²
Do you have any more info on this?
LegendofJoe
Member
Nintendo, the game industry's performing orphan.
"Fun Orphan" will be the buzzword for Next-Gen.
krypt0nian
Banned
I'm certain there will be some fun games on the U too. Chin up!
Project P 100 already looks amazing.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
is this post real
The 3DS uses FCRAM, which is considered to be a very fast mobile type of RAM. It's quite different from the (what appears to be) regular DRAM used in the PS Vita, and is said to perform on par with the highest-end available mobile memory out there. There's not as much of it as in the Vita, but in terms of how cutting edge it is, it's got the Vita beat. Compared to the GameCube, the 3DS has three times the amount of memory and four times the memory that can be properly used in games. That is despite the fact that the 3DS is less powerful than the Cube in most other areas.
So yeah. Memory still seems to be pretty important to Nintendo.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I just can't believe the Wii U will be less powerful than 360, a machine that came out 6 years ago. That's absurdly unbelievable. At the very least they could have just used current generation PC parts and still ended up with a far more powerful game system than 360/ps3.
Were you on this board when DS and Wii launched? Cause I've been mocked a few times already with my lecture of the market and my unreal predictions.
There is a hidden power that most people don't see, the one that is used to stream another flux of information on the GamePad. Wii U is powerful enough to display graphics on TWO screens. That's the concept of this console. I suppose Nintendo established a balance made of good enough graphics, reusing familiar development assets, while securing a good framerate at an affordable price.
Its not going to be
Who said the Wii-U will be less powerful than the 360?
Yes, but there are logical reasons why lightning won't strike twice for Nintendo (regarding consoles here if that wasn't obvious enough).
Displaying graphics on two screens isn't a big deal, the current gen systems can do that. What is being displayed is the important part. If you're displaying an inventory screen on the pad, that's not going to tax the system much at all. I'm definitely curious to see how the second screen is used in this respect. Though I imagine the most graphically impressive games on the Wii-U don't use the Wii-Upad for anything really demanding.
A 3.5ghz Phenom II quad core is also weaker than either CPU from 360/PS3 in some ways (flops). But it shits all over both of them overall.
WiiUs CPU will be weaker than 360/PS3 in floating point performance as well no doubt (I'd be surprised if Xbox3/PS4s CPUs aren't weaker in that way to). Which could cause some problems with direct porting of code from those consoles. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's bit faster in most ways especially when WiiUs DSP and I/O controller are used.
More so than the CPU I think it'll be RAM, rendering bandwidth, GPU features and shading performance were WIIU will be ahead of current gen. The only question is by how much.
Did we get a confirmation on this? I was under the impression that we were still sitting in the "likely 1.5GB but maybe 2".
I am setting the bar at a very low level, then I won't be horrifically disappointed.
P100 does look like great fun but I think I will hold out for the first price drop and to see how the software fleshes out.lwilliams3
Member
Actually.. that is a good question. Ideaman AFAIK only hinted on a range, but this is the first time I recall in which he blunted stated this.
There are rumours of Jaguar cores being the basis of one other next gen console or another...
Like Bobcat, Atom, A2 and 47x - there are clear applications for these lower-clocked, lower powered CPUs.
test_account
XP-39C²
Thanks. But if he know nothing about the RAM speed of Vita, how can we make much of a comparison? FCRAM in itself is not something new, it has been used for many, many years.
I dont doubt that memory is important to Nintendo, but i'm curious about the comment you made on 3DS vs Vita on the RAM.
Batman, Nintendo Land or Zombi U render full, independant views of the scenes with the motor of the games. You are downplaying this Wii U ability, saying it's only powerful enough to display an inventory. That's not the case. Wii U is powerful enough to display x360 graphics on two independant screens, from what we saw at E3.
Besides, I don't believe in luck in business. You either make better calls than competition or not.
plagiarize
Banned
marc o, i love you man, but being one of the crazies who predicted the DS and the Wii would be roaring successes isn't really a feather for your wings. no sane prediction had the DS or Wii being anything more than a modest success.
by 'sane prediction' i mean a prediction that was based on the things we knew as facts. there was plenty of reason for skepticism then, and just because that skepticism proved unfounded doesn't magically make the reasons for skepticism now unfounded either.
it's like people going 'Well the 3DS turned around it's poor first six months and started doing really well!' whenever confronted with the currently poor performance of the Vita, as if the fact the 3DS did it confirms that the Vita *will* rather than merely establishing that there's a chance it might.
i am personally very excited about the Wii U, because i'm one of the people that loved what they did with the GBA and the GC, and who bemoaned them never doing anything with the DS and Wii of interest... but i don't think it's something as obvious as the Wii remote or even kinect.
there are new challenges, and they can be over come, but right now, Nintendo at the very minimum have a lot of hard work ahead of them, and there's no guarantees that they can overcome the challenges ahead.
Oh, I'm not saying it's higher performance, I don't know. It's definitely some very competitive memory they put in though.
bgassassin
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M&feature=player_detailpage#t=6s
My take was the opposite from asking around the last couple months. Likely 2GB, but maybe 1.5GB.
Statements like these bother me. They are just claims which may or may not be true depending on the actual specifications.
In what situation, on what architecture? How sophisticated is the OOE support, and how many threads are we talking about?
The processor could be a full Power7, if it was clocked at 500 Mhz it would still be slow. Architecture =/= Performance.
I wonder if you mean PS3 every time you say 360/PS3. Because otherwise what you say doesn't make much sense.
nordique
Member
nordique
Member
We're talkingrumors and speculation here. Just like with the DS some people saw the potential for innovation and its value before it became a success and some didn't. You can be skeptical but many of us are looking for new thought provoking experiences and are excited when something revolutionary appears.
Well let's hope.
Agent Unknown
Member
Good, insightful article overall. Pretty discouraging if a lot of this true. How incredibly stupid of them to weaken the CPU speed just for some pointless form aesthetic on what is a bland looking console anyways, a console they've even said themselves that they deliberately made somewhat generic in appearance in order not to "detract attention" from the Gamepad (which outside of PR imagery is an odd concept in and of itself, who stares at their entertainment shelf while playing a game?). All it would have taken was a simple fan and a slightly bigger case, Nintendo but no, as usual that was just too hard for you to figure out. Gotta keep to that insanely rigid SMALL living room concept in each and every millimeter of the design, right guys?
Yes, if this is the case, it's very stupid.
Agent Unknown
Member
It's like they almost had it but there was that one little mental hurdle Iwata and the hardware guys back in Japan juuuuuust stubbornly couldn't bring themselves to jump over. SMH.
lwilliams3
Member
The 3DS has 128MB of total RAM with 32MB for background tasks, so having a 2GB with 512MB RAM for background tasks for the Wii U would have the same ratio
shinra-bansho
Member
Monolithic competitive offerings. lol.
Said the same thing many times to little avail. Still don't know why the notion is so pervasive. It feels of the same vein as "look how well the PS2 did."
I love you too man ;-) Nintendo is facing tremendous challenges, there is no doubt about that. Yet I believe they made a succession of right calls with Wii U. A Steve Jobs would have made a fanfare with such a smart product. Communication is Nintendo's main issue at the moment.
My voice is no gospel. I'm not a lunatic either. People often call me a marketer. Well, that was my job for eleven years. And I am good at that, I earned big responsabilities, partly because I see correlations and implications before most people I've worked with. When I say a bold thing, there's a rational behind it, I give explanations. I always did.
I'm not sharing the common skeptimism regarding Nintendo, but I love contradiction and I enjoy discussing with most of you guys. Hope you don't see me as arrogant, and that my positive views are as respected as the negative ones on this board.
WTF? Do you even read my posts before you rush to hit the reply button? Please tell me where I said the Wii-U was only powerful enough to display an inventory. My point was that displaying content on two screens is not a way to judge system power. What can be displayed on the pad is relative to what's displayed on the TV. Hence, the best looking games are likely to use thepad in minimalistic ways since system resources are being devoted to what's on the TV. I wasn't downplaying anything, you just didn't get my point.
Also what was shown at E3 to indicate it can render two displays with graphics on-par with the ps360? Keep in mind that the pad screen isn't even HD, so your already wrong here.
Finally, your second paragraph shows just how narrow minded you are in regards to these companies. You're already convinced the Wii-U will sell the most, and that they made the best calls, before you see what the other companies have to offer. If that's not the perfect example of blind bias, I don't know what is. What's most sad is if Nintendo does end up in last place, you'll blame lack of support or the consumers before ever contemplating if it was Nintendo that made the bad calls.
lol nice. Hope you know I meant no disrespect with my comment. =)
With 2 though, I'd take his word if I were you
I do to an extent, I'm just naturally cautious with second hand info, regardless of the person. I think everyone should be really and if I ever came across info, I would hope people have second thoughts towards me as well.
bgassassin
Member
Interesting point. I still hope/expect the footprint to be less than that come launch.
I'm not bothered at all by it. I just pass along what I hear while trying not to get anyone fired.
If people don't accept it, I'm not bothered as I'm just the messenger. And if the info is correct, then the person I got it from deserves the credit. Though for their safety they may not want to take it.
plagiarize
Banned
well, you'll never see me calling you Nintendo PR. i hope your predictions are correct. i always hope every new gaming system is a success, because i generally end up owning them all either way.
i just think i'm a rare bird as a lover of asymmetric gameplay and stuff like subscreens and what have you. maybe i'm not, maybe people just need to try this stuff to get it. eitherway, i'm all in for the Wii U as an owner to be, even if i'm not so convinced that it's going to be anything other than a modest success.
EatinOlives
Member
Funnily enough, this was brought up in another topic already. marc^o^ is a walking press release.
Poimandres
Member
Hmmm. When taking into account the need for streaming to the Wii U pad, is it likely this machine will produce anything that looks better than the best of PS3/360?
Interesting point. I still hope/expect the footprint to be less than that come launch.
I'm not bothered at all by it. I just pass along what I hear while trying not to get anyone fired.
If people don't accept it, I'm not bothered as I'm just the messenger. And if the info is correct, then the person I got it from deserves the credit. Though for their safety they may not want to take it.
The only way I can see them using 512MB for a console OS would be if they have decided to split the memory into "pools" and allow multi tasking. Full applications (i.e. games) can use and rely on 1.5GB, but smaller apps and VC games can draw from the other, smaller partition and the system would them allow multitasking to a limited degree.
Maybe one person could be playing a game with the GamePad Pro (stupid name, it's not a pad), but another person with the GamePad could still play a VC game or browse the web. Of course there is other resource contention going on and other hurdles to solve, but I just can't see any reason for 512MB of RAM in a console OS.
So if Nintendo doesn't allow complex multitasking as I suggested, then I bet that 512 will drop quite low (128 or so) eventually. Didn't the PS3 memory drop from 120 to 50 in the end?
Well obviously it depends on what you are drawing on the pad. If it's a full on 3d scene with effects out the wazzoo, maybe we won't. If it's an inventory or something less ambitious, I imagine so. The streaming will be handled by dedicated hardware I imagine (H264 Encoder etc) so will have little impact on the GPU and CPU other than the normal rendering pipeline.
Way back when, IdeaMan suggested that the Wii U could stream a display a bit better than the 360 on the main TV AND the GamePad at the same time. And that was without major optimisations or use of the Wii U's rumoured "magic sauce".
bgassassin
Member
Possibly yes as most of what we've seen and heard, including the CPU issues, have apparently been up to the 4th dev kit. The 5th kits didn't really start going out till about a week or so before E3. And in April we got an indication that Nintendo may have taken a step in addressing the issues with the CPU. What exactly that was is still somewhat open to interpretation.
IrishNinja
Member
see, this is the only potentially bad news ive read so far in this thread
+1, i learned my lesson this gen. this, all the way.
this is why i only game on lynx, neo geo express and wonderswans. specs are everything.
haha true, but that (thankfully) is always the case. you ever see the threads where they show the gamecube zelda tech demo? it looks like ass compared to Wind Waker.
bgassassin
Member
Yeah PS3's dropped from 120MB, but I don't know where it ended up. But I don't think it would be a split pool even with that amount.
Poimandres
Member
But how much of the extra power will be used up by the second screen? I guess it's all just speculation at this point, but I imagine it would be a bit of a power hit.
Edit: Just saw your response AzaK. A bit better than 360 on both screens at the same time sounds good.
bgassassin
Member
Yeah I was going to say Azak covered that part.
The one time when misspelling lighting would have been fine... ಠ_ಠ
I saw the drop to 50 here but I never verified much further than that.
When I said split, I just meant from an API point of view so that memory consumption could be controlled. That way a game could always rely on 1.5GB, because other apps would be getting their memory from the left over 512 and when that ran out, they'd have to deal with it without affecting the main application.
I can't help thinking they're doing something like that anyway for the OS on the 3DS, but I don't know.
Perhaps changing te CPU entirely. Production model may be different than development model. Wsippel mentioned a compiler compatibility being broken to some extent around the same time. Perhaps they were originally using the ppc750 initially (broadway) and very recently switched to final silicon in the latest kits? (ie ppc 47x variant?)
Pachterballs
Banned
that's the one quote that should have been highlighted; not the rest of bits and pieces bolded in the OP.
yup
Its not going to be good enough next gen; but it should satisfy the nintendo fans - I mean; if they are happy with wii graphics... then xbox/ps3 level for the wiiU should be more than enough.
You're mistaken if you think this generation's market leader was the market leader because of "Nintendo fans". See: GameCube.
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