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[linsivvi]

This might be the case with pub Inferno games (I only play Inferno with friends), but I definitely don't have this problem in Nightmare or Hell public.

I don't want to say this but you keep bringing up Hell and Nightmare...

Nobody is having problem with Hell and Nightmare.

The problem lies in Inferno. This is the end game. Not everyone is interested in leveling every class to 60 and then stop. They want to play in the highest difficulty and farm the best gears.

It's either too hard for some, or nothing left to do to those people who've finished it. Try joining a public Act 3 and Act 4 Inferno game and tell me you don't see this problem.

Limited number of random events and dungeons, random dungeons that are not really that random at all, ridiculously hard to find gears that are usable or sellable, lack of interesting items. There's really nothing much to keep people playing.

It might not be a problem for you but it is to many, many players.

Vault has no invincibility frames, unlike dashing strike. You're not supposed to use it to dodge attacks. You're supposed to use it to create distance. However, you can use dashing strike to dash in place to avoid freeze orbs, hits, etc etc. It doesn't suffer from the gear-check philosophy.

Once a mob starts its melee animation you'll be hit unless you use some kind of invincible skill or stun it. It doesn't matter if you're a screen away. It's been confirmed by the devs. That's terrible combat mechanics. Unacceptable in any action game.

There are also input and server lag. Even if you use SS you will still often be hit unless you have a super fast connection. Many people have the same experience.

You might not notice it because mobs can't 1 shot you until Inferno Act 2 and beyond.

 

[GJS]

This is what was posted in the AMAA in regards to loot and upgrades without the AH, hadn't seen it before. But it tries to explain what I have always understood about loot games.

Alright so I'm going to take a stab at this question.
As mentioned in a different thread, the drop rates were carefully tuned for a single player playing through from 1 to 60 without ever using the AH.
All of our items are randomly generated, and so follow a distribution curve in power. Let's say for the sake of argument that you were to somehow distill an item down to it's "power level" and created a distribution graph of drop rate vs. power level. This graph would probably be normally distributed with outliers at high power levels dropping at a lower rate.
Looking at this graph, an average item drops every 5 minutes, a higher power item drops every 15 minutes, even higher power drops every hour. etc. As you move up the curve to ever more powerful items, the amount of time it takes to find such an item increases. This is what makes certain items more desirable, this is how things worked in D2.

What happens for a standard player who is playing solo when they first hit level 60 is they see an item upgrade every 30 minutes or so. Pretty quickly it becomes every hour, then every 2 hours. The higher the power level of your gear, the longer it takes to find your next upgrade, that's just the underlying math of this distribution. It's not really anything we set either. If we magically made all drops rates 10x higher, all it would do is shift the power curve left or right, it would not change the fundamental property that the higher up in power you go, the longer (statistically) it is going to take until you find your next drop.
So then let's say you visit the Auction House and get infusion of power that hurls you forward on that power curve. So whereas at one point your gear may be at a point that you are statistically speaking probably going to get an upgrade every 2 hours. After visiting the Auction House you hurl yourself forward on the power curve so far that now you are statistically going to get a drop every 8 hours.

To further illustrate the point, let's talk about the coming changes in 1.0.3. In 1.0.3 we're going to start dropping level 63 items in Act I of Inferno. We're also reducing incoming damage. What do I expect to happen? I expect that there will be a rapid increase in power across the entire community as all of these items become more widely accessible. It's like we took the distribution curve of items and made everything drop more. That item that used to take 10 hours to find is now a 2 hour item. An item that used to be a 2 day item is now an 8 hour item. After the initial frenzy of power increase, things are just going to settle again. People who think drop rates are too low now will probably still think drop rates are too low a week later when they move to the new point on the curve. I've spent a long time on this question so I'm going to move on but hopefully somebody who gets what I'm saying will be able to expand on it more, maybe draw some graphs to better illustrate the point.

tl;dr we could make drops 100x what they are now and it would just cause everybody to settle at a new equilibrium point. Anything you can farm in a few hours you'll already have, anything that takes longer you'll wish you could get faster.

 

[spirity]

Torchlight 2? Someone gifted me TL1 but I haven't really started playing yet because I kept hoping the next act or patch would make D3 click with good loot finally starting to drop. I'll start playing TL1 in wait of TL2 though. That loot is what I'm talking about, especially if it don't take years for something remotely similar to drop.

Yep, thats TL2. Diablo 3 at similar levels has STR and VIT (using barb as an example). And thats it, thats all you're interested in loot-wise, because frankly, that all you get. TL2 by comparison.. well, look at that screenshot. Its in a different league to D3. Almost right from the start, you are making decisions about magic find, crit, evolving weapon stats, resistances, attack speed, charge bonus, elemental damage, health, mana, etc.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Vault has no invincibility frames, unlike dashing strike. You're not supposed to use it to dodge attacks. You're supposed to use it to create distance. However, you can use dashing strike to dash in place to avoid freeze orbs, hits, etc etc. It doesn't suffer from the gear-check philosophy.

Yes but I hit vault as they were winding up. When they were in swinging animation I was halfway across the screen but still got hit. Why shouldn't I use it to dodge attacks? It's a quick get-me-the-fuck-out-of-here move that should provide some defense in a class that's really lacking it.

If they wind up, I vault, and then they swing I shouldn't die.

 

[Feel the Swift]

I beat Hell with my Monk and it's now at 60. I'm afraid to play Inferno.

 

[Westonian]

Except it wasn't. The blizzard team didn't HAVE an AH when they were playing through the game prior to release. They've publicly said this on multiple occasions.

The only issue is Inferno, which wasn't well tested after they jacked up the difficulty prior to release.

Also, how do you suggest they take into account the patching and balancing changes they made in Diablo 2, and put them into a game that is largely different, mechanically? You don't just take Diablo 2 and put a new coat of paint on it.

I'm talking about loot drop rates. D2 was balanced pretty well after LoD. They threw that away with D3. What about item perks that actually affect skills? Completely absent in D3. Gems can only affect three or four stats? Runewords are gone?

I could go on and on... Basically D3 feels like a complete regression from D2, when a game that they had 10 years to develop should feel like an evolution.

 

[Hari Seldon]

You making money is a scam? It's fine if you're not down with spending money on the RMAH (I think spending real money on fake loot is a ridiculously stupid idea), but how is making money a scam?

The 30% commission on cashing out to Paypal seems like a scam to me. Also adjusting the drop rates forcing people to use the AH seems a scam. From what I am reading, adjusting mobs that require special gear types in order to get past them seems a scam. This game is engineered to get people to use the AH and make money for blizzard.

Good thing I find the game rather pedestrian or I would be upset about it.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Constantly running away and dragging enemies along doesn't really make me want to play inferno. The brief moments of the "eff yeah!" are few and far between.

The most frustrating is the hit detection. I would like enemies to whiff a normal attack animation because I moved away instead of it magically hit me even though I moved visually out of attack range.

Also the loot/equipment take priority over what you actually invested in your character. D2 made you try builds and invest in skills that payed huge dividends (or suffer terrible consequences) but made them unique, not a leveled up vessels where you move your skills freely. The equipment holds more value than the character you are playing

In this game, its not the man/woman that make them great, its their clothing.

 

[TommyT]

Yes but I hit vault as they were winding up. When they were in swinging animation I was halfway across the screen but still got hit. Why shouldn't I use it to dodge attacks? It's a quick get-me-the-fuck-out-of-here move that should provide some defense in a class that's really lacking it.

If they wind up, I vault, and then they swing I shouldn't die.

Pretty sure there is a blue post saying this is by design as well as list the reason(s). You're not supposed to out range something while it's in the swing of it's melee animation. Otherwise you would just wait until it wound up, then move away, repeat and never be hit.

You should be using vault to put distance between things before they get in range of attacking you.

The only defense that a DH lacks is some constant passive/ability that constantly persists or is activated on a hit. As it stands, you have to know when something is coming to be able to mitigate it.

That's more of an OT thing... to the thread, my DH is at the point where when I finish the game I'll be done until something new (to the game) comes a long. Levelling a new class is kind of... eh. Should have done it before when it was capable of being done within 2 hours, that would have kept me around longer if I just had more 60's to play/gear.

 

[linsivvi]

In this game, its not the man/woman that make them great, its their clothing.

And then they have the nerve to make those two naked boss achievements. LOL.

 

[ccbfan]

I agree and I have said the exact same thing multiple times, I love D2 from launch on but it was because of the expansions and patching that it was made significantly better. I have no doubt D3 will be a long lasting game because of the expansions and patches.

D3 from launch to the first expansion will be a better game in every way just like D2 was.

I don't understand why we shouldn't expect D2 Exp improvements in D3?

What? Just because it doesn't have the Exp part to it means all the years of growth in the loot whore genre gets ignored?

D3 would have been a good game if it was a sequel to D1. As a sequel to D2 and its expansion that came out over 10 freakin years ago. Its a huge step back.

Its almost like they purposely held back content for the purpose of releasing expansion packs.

Seriously don't be surprised if the D3 version of (D2 names) Synergies, Runes, Runewords, Charms, Jewels, Item properties thats not vanilla show up in D3 expansion when this shit should have been in D3 vanilla to start with.

 

[Einherjar]

Played through, used some exploits (Resplendent Chests spawning next to a waypoint), killed Diablo on inferno solo during 1.02 patch with pimped gear (pretty much spammed spectral blades the entire fight) and...that was that. Not much to do after soloing inferno Diablo.

Sold all my gear for $500 and made out like a bandit.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Pretty sure there is a blue post saying this is by design as well as list the reason(s). You're not supposed to out range something while it's in the swing of it's melee animation. Otherwise you would just wait until it wound up, then move away, repeat and never be hit.

You should be using vault to put distance between things before they get in range of attacking you.

The only defense that a DH lacks is some constant passive/ability that constantly persists or is activated on a hit. As it stands, you have to know when something is coming to be able to mitigate it.

That's more of an OT thing... to the thread, my DH is at the point where when I finish the game I'll be done until something new (to the game) comes a long. Levelling a new class is kind of... eh. Should have done it before when it was capable of being done within 2 hours, that would have kept me around longer if I just had more 60's to play/gear.

Well, you'd be hit by all the other monsters with quicker attacks and speed. Also the elites with abilities like waller, vortex, jailer, and teleport. Sounds like good combat strategy... exploit their slow attacks with my quick movements.

You see, bold is exactly what they're doing wrong. Trying to force us to play the game one certain way with every design choice or update they make.

It is more of an OT thing but I was responding to someone calling combat "goddamn fantastic".

 

[TommyT]

Well, you'd be hit by all the other monsters with quicker attacks and speed. Also the elites with abilities like waller, vortex, jailer, and teleport. Sounds like good combat strategy... exploit their slow attacks with my quick movements.

You see, bold is exactly what they're doing wrong. Trying to force us to play the game one certain way with every design choice or update they make.

It is more of an OT thing but I was responding to someone calling combat "goddamn fantastic".

I'll reply to this in the OT.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Played through, used some exploits (Resplendent Chests spawning next to a waypoint), killed Diablo on inferno solo during 1.02 patch with pimped gear (pretty much spammed spectral blades the entire fight) and...that was that. Not much to do after soloing inferno Diablo.

Sold all my gear for $500 and made out like a bandit.

well done.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I'll reply to this in the OT.

It's appropriate discussion for either topic really. I'm sure people are frustrated from constant dying to bs like this before quitting.

 

[zoukka]

Played through, used some exploits (Resplendent Chests spawning next to a waypoint), killed Diablo on inferno solo during 1.02 patch with pimped gear (pretty much spammed spectral blades the entire fight) and...that was that. Not much to do after soloing inferno Diablo.

Sold all my gear for $500 and made out like a bandit.

You beat the game, grats. You also beat blizzard!

 

[thetrin]

The 30% commission on cashing out to Paypal seems like a scam to me. Also adjusting the drop rates forcing people to use the AH seems a scam. From what I am reading, adjusting mobs that require special gear types in order to get past them seems a scam. This game is engineered to get people to use the AH and make money for blizzard.

Good thing I find the game rather pedestrian or I would be upset about it.

I only use the gold AH, and haven't had any issues getting characters to 60 and into Inferno. Nothing says you HAVE to use the RMAH. If you don't want to, that's cool.

A company taking a percentage of the sale for facilitating a sale is not a scam. That's how a business works. My company uses a standardized transaction facilitation system for all our product sales. They take a percentage of the proceeds on each transaction.

How does this not make sense? They're not a charity. You're using their technology. They have a right to a percentage of proceeds.

But hey, you don't like the game. That's a totally valid reason to quit.

 

[Last Hearth]

So what do you think?

Personally, I've stopped playing till they fix it. I just found this data interesting so thought I'd share it.

I think this is what this is all about. You have an agenda, and you're presenting some dubious data as evidence that people agree with you, in order to get more people to agree you.

Mind you, I'm not even defending D3, I played it through once and haven't been back since, and I am regretting getting sucked into the hype and paying full price.

I just don't like this kind of tactic. I see way too much of it in the news already.

 

[Duffyside]

Heh, its obvious whoever made this comic doesn't even play D3. The player base is having the EXACT opposite of what's going on in there.

The comic is made to be funny. Its verisimilitude to the hardcore player experience is not important. I would think this would be obvious.

 

[Last Hearth]

I only use the gold AH, and haven't had any issues getting characters to 60 and into Inferno. Nothing says you HAVE to use the RMAH. If you don't want to, that's cool.

A company taking a percentage of the sale for facilitating a sale is not a scam. That's how a business works. My company uses a standardized transaction facilitation system for all our product sales. They take a percentage of the proceeds on each transaction.

How does this not make sense? They're not a charity. You're using their technology. They have a right to a percentage of proceeds.

What they're doing is running an online casino. It's not a "scam" per se. But that's what they're doing.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Wow that's really reaching especially since to me D3 is better than any of the Diablo clones especially Titan Quest, Path of Exile and Torchlight.

They are not even in the same league yet.

Opinion noted, I played said clones first and I loved them more (great loot and upgrades dropped as you went, good rewards for killing bosses encouraging you to see what the next will drop). I played POE days before D3 as my hype for finally playing the father of loot games was at critical mass (ok that's a pun I guess).

I had a ton of fun with my POE play, my pet play was engaging. POE was challenging straight away with no cheap feeling. I still have to skip certain elites especially now that repair costs are more expensive (Diablo 3 difficulty issue). I don't too much care for the trading for store items system in POE, though it was interesting and I wonder how it will work out for higher levels. My zombie army was awesome. I made them stronger, and they felt stronger. So good.

If Diablo 3 is the real way random loot should be I'd rather loot was less random. 100 - 500 dmg weapons in act 1 inferno constantly makes it seem like the random is programmed to suck more than it's allowed to be good. I got horrible weapon damage items in act 2 3 and 4 as well but I guess I chalk that up to not farming them enough to find the higher end dmg to decide if it's like act 1 or not. Not to mention the amount of loot that are underleveled. Majority of the loot that's dropped seem to be in the 50s. I should gear up the classes that I haven't leveled yet in inferno (I kinda did, holding on to a axe in case I level monk and barb).

 

[Kenaras]

Even if it didn't happen to you, it's happening to me on a ~20 ping. That's a design problem. I brought this up in the OT and someone said this was actually intended as part of their WoW gear-check philosophy.

Yes this happens, it's intended, and it has nothing to do with latency, lag, or hitboxes. For you it's a design problem. For me and for Blizzard, allowing ranged players to simply walk away from every attack is a design problem. To solve this problem, they had to choose between the current solution or a solution of simply making every attack animation too fast to walk away from. The former annoys players who feel they have a God-given right to never be hit by anything, ever - even if there's a melee attacker in their face. The latter would result in janky animations, hurting the feel of combat for everyone.

There are quite a few problems with the game which bother me, but this isn't one of them.

 

[TommyT]

It's appropriate discussion for either topic really. I'm sure people are frustrated from constant dying to bs like this before quitting.

Ok, than the gist:

It's frustrating to die when you expect a skill to work one way only to realize it wasn't meant to be used that way or for that purpose. So it would seem like it would be appropriate to change skills to your playstyle or adjust the playstyle to the skills you want to use.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Yes this happens, it's intended, and it has nothing to do with latency, lag, or hitboxes. For you it's a design problem. For me and for Blizzard, allowing ranged players to simply walk away from every attack is a design problem. To solve this problem, they had to choose between the current solution or a solution of simply making every attack animation too fast to walk away from. The former annoys players who feel they have a God-given right to never be hit by anything, ever - even if there's a melee attacker in their face. The latter would result in janky animations, hurting the feel of combat for everyone.

There are quite a few problems with the game which bother me, but this isn't one of them.

I already said you can't simply use vault to get out of every situation. Landing recovery frames, quick attacks, elite affixes, and mistakes cause plenty of deaths for glass cannons.

Ok, than the gist:

It's frustrating to die when you expect a skill to work one way only to realize it wasn't meant to be used that way or for that purpose. So it would seem like it would be appropriate to change skills to your playstyle or adjust the playstyle to the skills you want to use.

I'll get to the OT response in a bit. For this though, you need to know it doesn't matter what the skill was intended to be used for. The fact is it's a quick skill that I should be able to use to get away from guys trying to sledge me. I only brought it up as an example of how ridiculous it can get - me being half a screen a way and still getting hit. If I simply walk away from these guys winding up I'm often hit even while being out noticeably out of the animation range.

I shouldn't have to adjust to some bullshit combat mechanic that makes no sense at all. Why do they even use swing animations? Why not just have my character instantly die when they're close. It'd put less stress on my laptop and would achieve the same result.

 

[linsivvi]

Yes this happens, it's intended, and it has nothing to do with latency, lag, or hitboxes. For you it's a design problem. For me and for Blizzard, allowing ranged players to simply walk away from every attack is a design problem. To solve this problem, they had to choose between the current solution or a solution of simply making every attack animation too fast to walk away from. The former annoys players who feel they have a God-given right to never be hit by anything, ever - even if there's a melee attacker in their face. The latter would result in janky animations, hurting the feel of combat for everyone.

There are quite a few problems with the game which bother me, but this isn't one of them.

You made it sound like it doesn't require any player skill whatsoever to do that, especially when there are a screenful of mobs.

Some players are so good that they can dodge everything the enemies throw at you? Design the game such that you cannot dodge it.

It's not like they didn't already have attacks that you cannot dodge without using a skill. It's called jailer, vortex and enrage.

 

[GJS]

Opinion noted, I played said clones first and I loved them more (great loot and upgrades dropped as you went, good rewards for killing bosses encouraging you to see what the next will drop). I played POE days before D3 as my hype for finally playing the father of loot games was at critical mass (ok that's a pun I guess).

I had a ton of fun with my POE play, my pet play was engaging. POE was challenging straight away with no cheap feeling. I still have to skip certain elites especially now that repair costs are more expensive (Diablo 3 difficulty issue). I don't too much care for the trading for store items system in POE, though it was interesting and I wonder how it will work out for higher levels. My zombie army was awesome. I made them stronger, and they felt stronger. So good.

If Diablo 3 is the real way random loot should be I'd rather loot was less random. 100 - 500 dmg weapons in act 1 inferno constantly makes it seem like the random is programmed to suck more than it's allowed to be good. I got horrible weapon damage items in act 2 3 and 4 as well but I guess I chalk that up to not farming them enough to find the higher end dmg to decide if it's like act 1 or not. Not to mention the amount of loot that are underleveled. Majority of the loot that's dropped seem to be in the 50s. I should gear up the classes that I haven't leveled yet in inferno (I kinda did, holding on to a axe in case I level monk and barb).

In D2 you could be farming end game content and get stupidly low level gear, they already got rid of that.

The randomisation isn't programmed in any odd way, the devs said it is supposed to be a normalised distribution, which is how a loot game should be.

All of our items are randomly generated, and so follow a distribution curve in power. Let's say for the sake of argument that you were to somehow distill an item down to it's "power level" and created a distribution graph of drop rate vs. power level. This graph would probably be normally distributed with outliers at high power levels dropping at a lower rate.

It is going to take a long time to farm high end gear, but if you take the whole game population and how long it takes them to get good drops, it will also be distributed in a similar curve. There will be a lot of people who say come across a 900dps+ weapon every x hours, whilst there will also be outliers who come across one really quickly, or who almost never come across one.

 

[Kenaras]

I already said you can't simply use vault to get out of every situation. Landing recovery frames, quick attacks, elite affixes, and mistakes cause plenty of deaths for glass cannons.

You say that like I've never played a demon hunter. My demon hunter made it to act 4 inferno for a grand total of 100k spent at the auction house; I'm quite familiar with the class and its mechanics.

In any case, at this point you seem to be complaining more about Vault mechanics than core game mechanics. Personally I find Vault a reasonably powerful ability as-is; it's just not a replacement for Smokescreen or Shadow Power - Gloom.

 

[DemiMatt]

not a big shocker, i stopped playing after patch 1.03. This game became a joke after nerfing your character, stupid drop rates on inferno and high repair cost just to stabilize the gold economy. Game is just not fun anymore.

This. It feels much more like an MMO LIte where as D2 to me was true Loot Whoring & KPing. I'm not to sure but I felt D3 was very lackluster and stopped after 3 weeks.

 

[Artanisix]

the problem:

in diablo 2, uniques and sets were badass
in diablo 3, uniques and sets are boring and shitty

in diablo 2, sockets were interesting and even white items had a use
in diablo 3, lol stat bonuses for sockets and white items are useless

in diablo 2, you could farm nightmare and find endgame gear (hoz, shako, soj, skillers, etc)
in diablo 3, you can farm nightmare for.... gold

in diablo 2, pvp
in diablo 3, sit in town

in diablo 2, huge 8 player runs, it was almost always more beneficial to run with a group
in diablo 3, grouping is heavily discouraged. why???

and don't give me that shit about how i'm comparing vanilla d3 to d2:lod 1.10, this is how comparisons are supposed to work, you compare it to the latest iteration of the game. why would i compare vanilla d3 to vanilla d2, that makes no sense at all.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It's appropriate discussion for either topic really. I'm sure people are frustrated from constant dying to bs like this before quitting.

Yes, talk about it here. They give too much power to the enemies while gimping the players.

Shield minions, waller, arcane sentry, freeze, extra hp, fast, #)#$()*%))^$%_^&+!!!

 

[TommyT]

I'll get to the OT response in a bit. For this though, you need to know it doesn't matter what the skill was intended to be used for. The fact is it's a quick skill that I should be able to use to get away from guys trying to sledge me. I only brought it up as an example of how ridiculous it can get - me being half a screen a way and still getting hit. If I simply walk away from these guys winding up I'm often hit even while being out noticeably out of the animation range.

I shouldn't have to adjust to some bullshit combat mechanic that makes no sense at all. Why do they even use swing animations? Why not just have my character instantly die when they're close. It'd put less stress on my laptop and would achieve the same result.

... there's just so much confusion here I can't really begin to understand where you're coming from. How this comes across is akin to a child saying "It's not fair!" and crossing your arms while you pout.

I can understand how a mechanic can be frustrating, but there are ways to get around it and work with it. Neither of which you seem to be open to trying or comprehending.


Here's the post from Bashiok

It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. It's not something we'll be changing.

 

[rCIZZLE]

You say that like I've never played a demon hunter. My demon hunter made it to act 4 inferno for a grand total of 100k spent at the auction house; I'm quite familiar with the class and its mechanics.

In any case, at this point you seem to be complaining more about Vault mechanics than core game mechanics. Personally I find Vault a reasonably powerful ability as-is; it's just not a replacement for Smokescreen or Shadow Power - Gloom.

The way you suggested that every death could be prevented by vault made me think you've never even played the game before.

As I said in the edit of the post you quoted, it's not limited to vault. I was using vault as an example of how extreme it can be - half screen away from attacker yet being hit. It also happens when I try to walk away... they'll swing and hit nothing in the animation yet I'll be hit.

... there's just so much confusion here I can't really begin to understand where you're coming from. How this comes across is akin to a child saying "It's not fair!" and crossing your arms while you pout.

I can understand how a mechanic can be frustrating, but there are ways to get around it and work with it. Neither of which you seem to be open to trying or comprehending.

Are you going to turn into an asshole because I didn't accept your defense of a shitty part of combat?

I don't care if there are ways around it. It's bad design. It's telling me the animation means nothing other than being pretty to look at. The animation is not representing what's really happening.

 

[dLMN8R]

Let me get this straight.


People actually thought Diablo 3 would somehow retain its player count? Why? It's a story-driven game with a concrete end.

Do you actually think Diablo 2 retained its player count?

 

[ElectricBlue187]

You beat the game, grats. You also beat blizzard!

Blizz made ~$200 off him. No matter who loses, Blizzard always wins

 

[Tacitus_]

Blizz made ~$200 off him. No matter who loses, Blizzard always wins

How come? 60$ for the game and 1$ per RMAH transaction.

 

[ElyrionX]

No one expects the best loot on a plate. People expect some actual variety and atleast some progression in a multi-hour session.

In Diablo II, there were constant drops and you always were making a choice about which piece of gear suited you the best at that moment in time.
In Diablo III, you get a drop for a specific item slot after 4 hours (even in low difficulties) thats marginally better, and you use it because there is no alternative.

In Diablo II, items may have lower base stats but improve a skill. You then have to make a decision about whether or not that skill is worth the tradeoff.
In Diablo III, items with lower base stats nerf all of your skills, almost always leading to there being no sense of choice because item A is plain better than item B.

In Diablo II, the drop rate was high enough that you always felt capable of continuing. Those who explored every nook and cranny were rewarded with being slightly overpowered.
In Diablo III, the drop rate is so low that you frequently will find yourself pathetic compared to the enemies, and be nearly forced to look at the auction house.

This next one is a personal issue of mine:
In Diablo II, you get a drop that's much better and you think "Wow, this is amazing!". You always feel powerful.
In Diablo III, you had to use the Auction House to continue, and have to filter through all of the vastly better items at your level to settle on one that's reasonably priced at that point in time. This feels the equivelant of if Diablo II displayed a list of better gear next to every drop you pick up, to constantly remind you that your gear sucks in the grand scheme of things. You always feel weaker than others.

LOL. I'm not sure what game you were playimg but I'm pretty sure it isn't Diablo 2 at any stage of the game's lifespan.

Drop rate was high enough that you always felt capable of continuing? What a load of fucking bullshit. Did you even reach Hell difficulty? The brick wall you hit in D2 Hell Act 1 is far far bigger than the brick wall of Inferno Act 2 in D3 now post-patch.

 

[TommyT]

Are you going to turn into an asshole because I didn't accept your defense of a shitty part of combat?

I don't care if there are ways around it. It's bad design. It's telling me the animation means nothing other than being pretty to look at. The animation is not representing what's really happening.

Not at all; wasn't meant that way so no need to take it that way. I'm not defending anything, just explaining that's how things work. I don't particularly like the mechanic, didn't make sense to me at first. Doesn't mean I can't play the game though. Once I understand how/why it works, I'm able to adapt to it. Are you so set in your ways that you can't play a different way, use different gear, try different skills to maybe have a better experience? That is what my comment about "it's not fair" is in reference to. (If you are, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just asking.)

What it's saying is that the animation means exactly what it looks like: You're at point X where before you were at point Y. What it is also telling you is that regardless of how close or how far you are, if you were in range of a melee attacks animation to begin, the damage is coming - deal with it (because range isn't going to help you). If you don't like that mechanic that's fine. However, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can't still play the game. It doesn't ruin/break the game. It might impair the particular style/skill/gear/whatever set you're wanting to play, but it doesn't do that for everyone nor does it mean you can't adapt. If you don't want to, then that's your own thing and you can do whatever you want.

So to the point of the thread, this mechanic has been in the game since day 1. Mechanics like this are in every game (not specifically like this buy ones that frustrate people) and cause people to stop playing. Only natural to a game cycle.

 

[dLMN8R]

The comparisons to League of Legends and WoW are fucking stupid. The only valid comparison would be from one game's first month to another game's first month. And they're completely different types of games too.

If you think this is at all different from Diablo 2, you're delusional. The game sold 6.3 million copies. That means it covers a tremendous range of gamer types. The vast majority of gamers don't keep playing the same game for a month and a half after release.

 

[Gravijah]

In D2 you could be farming end game content and get stupidly low level gear, they already got rid of that.

The randomisation isn't programmed in any odd way, the devs said it is supposed to be a normalised distribution, which is how a loot game should be.

but diablo should have a lottery based system. that's half the reason i put so much time into d2.

 

[FtHTiny]

in diablo 2, uniques and sets were badass
in diablo 3, uniques and sets are boring and shitty

It´s wierd, almost every stream/build has 2-4 legendary items in them, if they are so shitty why are people bothering using them.
HoC, Andariels, justice lantern, bul kathos ring, lacuni and some more.
In d2 there where shitty uniques aswell so this point doesn´t make sense to me.

It was their design-intention that rares should be better, they see that it was a mistake and they are changing them. It´s not like that the game isn´t getting patched.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Not at all; wasn't meant that way so no need to take it that way. I'm not defending anything, just saying that's how things work. I don't particularly like the mechanic, didn't make sense to me at first. Doesn't mean I can't play the game though. Once I understand how/why it works, I'm able to adapt to it.

No, you're defending it. Obviously I know how it works because that's what I'm complaining about. I also can still play the game but the deaths from that part of combat become increasingly frustrating now that it means: 1. More repair costs. 2. Elites more likely to full regen. I know how it works and I have adapted but still disapprove. I'd rather they use better design than me having to guess when the invisible swings will hit me.

What it's saying is that the animation means exactly what it looks like: You're at point X where before you were at point Y. What it is also telling you is that regardless of how close or how far you are, if you were in range of a melee attacks animation to begin, the damage is coming - deal with it (because range isn't going to help you). If you don't like that mechanic that's fine.

The animation means "a swing and a miss" but that's not what happens all the time. If you don't see how wrong this is think of a boxing match where the person is hit when the punch is just coming out.

However, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can't still play the game. It doesn't ruin/break the game. It might impair the particular style/skill/gear/whatever set you're wanting to play, but it doesn't do that for everyone nor does it mean you can't adapt. If you don't want to, then that's your own thing and you can do whatever you want.

Yes I *can* still play the game, doesn't mean I'll want to if this terrible part of combat eventually sucks all the fun out of the game. I can also complain about it until it's fixed or I quit.

 

[diffusionx]

The comparisons to League of Legends and WoW are fucking stupid. The only valid comparison would be from one game's first month to another game's first month. And they're completely different types of games too.

If you think this is at all different from Diablo 2, you're delusional. The game sold 6.3 million copies. That means it covers a tremendous range of gamer types. The vast majority of gamers don't keep playing the same game for a month and a half after release.

Yea, this. Most people stop playing a game after a few weeks. I am sure this game will improve rapidly and greatly. Blizzard maintains their games like no other. The problem was that development was so drawn out and people just expected perfection, in spite of the fact that perfection never happens.

I know they did betas and all that, but I'll put this way: the game likely got more playtime on release day than it did the entire development period combined.

 

[Gaogaogao]

price drop plz

 

[SRTtoZ]

I haven't 'quit' per say but I stopped playing after 1.0.3. The game is just less fun now and there's no reason I want to keep putting hours into a game that is not as fun as it was. There is nothing fun about 60k+ repairs, its dumb. There's nothing fun about reflect dmg on seigebreaker who is virtually impossible to me as a DH with 60k DPS, there's only so many times I can smoke screen and when I'm waiting for my Disc to recharge he eventually hits enrage. Before the patch I was having a ton of fun farming ACT3, even though it was hard, but now its still just as hard for DH, but less fun. Make the game fun again Blizz, stop messing with shit that doesn't need to be messed with.

 

[Slayer-33]

price drop plz

They need to fix the damn game tbh, price drop wont fix it.

 

[mattiewheels]

You guys make it sound like, for the high-level players at least, this is basically a F2P game that you pay $60 for initially. Who would have thought ActiBlizz would have gotten greedy with the rmah and let the game suffer because of it?!?

 

[Orenhy]

Personally i have 2 friends who basically stopped playing after 1.0.3 patch. their characters who were solid into doing act 3 were back grinding act 2 with a long way to getting back into 3.
I beat Diablo 3 on inferno today (secret brag post), and i'm gonna leave game for now, there is just no reason to farm gear with AH and the lousy drop rates.

 

[Impeccable]

and i'm gonna leave game for now, there is just no reason to farm gear with AH and the lousy drop rates.

And changing everything to massive drop rates would turn into, "and i'm gonna leave game for now, there is just no reason to farm gear when i have everything i need already'.

I prefer the chase.

 

[TommyT]

No, you're defending it. Obviously I know how it works because that's what I'm complaining about. I also can still play the game but the deaths from that part of combat become increasingly frustrating now that it means: 1. More repair costs. 2. Elites more likely to full regen. I know how it works and I have adapted but still disapprove. I'd rather they use better design than me having to guess when the invisible swings will hit me.

The animation means "a swing and a miss" but that's not what happens all the time. If you don't see how wrong this is think of a boxing match where the person is hit when the punch is just coming out.

Yes I *can* still play the game, doesn't mean I'll want to if this terrible part of combat eventually sucks all the fun out of the game. I can also complain about it until it's fixed or I quit.

Sorry, but you've contradicted yourself enough to the point where I won't "defend" an explanation of mechanics. Things work how they work.

The game is having "normal" drop off tendencies due to mechanics that are by design. However it would seem that there's even more due to the changes that have been coming as of late that are based off reactions to quite a few factors like bots, inflation, barrier to entry to inferno acts, etc. I didn't play any other diablo, so I don't know how things were handled in their early days.