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[Fantastical]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EnbWfOyvL._AA300_.jpg

Games for Windows Live is pretty clearly labeled on the box shot, which is the only image on the page.

Are you saying that you think, for every product, we should denote what services it does not activate on?

So in, this case, we would have a note on the page that reads:

Note: This game requires Games for Windows Live activation but does not activate on Origin, Steam, Desura, Impulse, or Gamefly.

and that, for every product that does not activate on one of these services we should indicate so on page?

That doesn't seem reasonable.

Cheers,
Tony

But you supply customers with codes and don't indicate where you are even supposed to use the codes. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell where a product can be activated. I mean, is that unreasonable? There has been a lot of confusion in this very thread about what activates where.

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

But you supply customers with codes and don't indicate where you are even supposed to use the codes. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell where a product can be activated. I mean, is that unreasonable? There has been a lot of confusion in this very thread about what activates where.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EnbWfOyvL._AA300_.jpg

We do. The box shot for the game has the "Games for Windows Live" logo across the top of it...

The confusion in this thread has been whether or not the game also activates on Origin, just like there is a ton of confusion around whether or not Binary Domain, a Steamworks game, activates on Steam.

EDIT To clarify here, I absolutely think we should be telling people where their product activates. What I can't see as feasible is addressing the root cause of this conversation:

Root Cause: I'm having trouble with getting EA to add my fully functional game to my Origin library.

If the root cause were instead:

Root Cause: I had no idea this game required Games for Windows Live, I hate Games for Windows Live and never would have purchased had I known this was a requirement

then I would agree that we need to do a better job communicating where this thing activates.

The assertion that it is impossible for the customer to understand what to do with the key we supply isn't valid. It is clearly indicated on the image for the game, and then again during the installation process when you are prompted to enter it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to understand what you think we should be communicating.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[Nelo Ice]

But you supply customers with codes and don't indicate where you are even supposed to use the codes. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell where a product can be activated. I mean, is that unreasonable? There has been a lot of confusion in this very thread about what activates where.

And I'm sure everyone decides to ask in here first rather than looking at the page, google, or anywhere in this thread.

 

[Fantastical]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EnbWfOyvL._AA300_.jpg

We do. The box shot for the game has the "Games for Windows Live" logo across the top of it...

The confusion in this thread has been whether or not the game also activates on Origin, just like there is a ton of confusion around whether or not Binary Domain, a Steamworks game, activates on Steam.

Cheers,
Tony

Okay, so the game is "clearly" GFW on the Amazon page and people are complaining that it's a GFW game. That is not clear enough to the consumer, apparently, and you never indicate that the EA games activate on Origin, so there is no where to tell that a game doesn't activate on Origin, you just kind of have to guess. I mean, yes, it is bullshit that an EA game doesn't activate on Origin... but I still think it should be more transparent.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

But you supply customers with codes and don't indicate where you are even supposed to use the codes. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell where a product can be activated. I mean, is that unreasonable? There has been a lot of confusion in this very thread about what activates where.

Because not all of them you have to activate somewhere? Just because you want it ALSO on your steam account or ALSO on your origin account doesn't mean that it won't work through amazon. They still sell you a full functional game, some have steamworks though and need to be redeemed through that.

Okay, so the game is "clearly" GFW on the Amazon page and people are complaining that it's a GFW game. That is not clear enough to the consumer, apparently, and you never indicate that the EA games activate on Origin, so there is no where to tell that a game doesn't activate on Origin, you just kind of have to guess. I mean, yes, it is kind of bullshit that an EA game doesn't activate on Origin... but I still think it should be more transparent.

Why? You don't need origin to play it. They sell you the full game that you download and play. Just because it may also be able to register somewhere else has nothing to do with them.

 

[Nelo Ice]

Because not all of them you have to activate somewhere? Just because you want it ALSO on your steam account or ALSO on your origin account doesn't mean that it won't work through amazon. They still sell you a full functional game, some have steamworks though and need to be redeemed through that.




Why? You don't need origin to play it. They sell you the full game that you download and play. Just because it may also be able to register somewhere else has nothing to do with them.

Yep but it sounds like everyone here insists on no client no sale even though yeah Amazon is selling games that work perfectly fine without a client.

 

[Fantastical]

Because not all of them you have to activate somewhere? Just because you want it ALSO on your steam account or ALSO on your origin account doesn't mean that it won't work through amazon. They still sell you a full functional game, some have steamworks though and need to be redeemed through that.




Why? You don't need origin to play it. They sell you the full game that you download and play. Just because it may also be able to register somewhere else has nothing to do with them.

Okay, wait, I think I may be misinformed. The EA games are DRM free if you don't want to use Origin?

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

OK EA chat was zero fucking help. In fact, they told me my activation key was invalid and to contact Amazon.

What the crap. Is this guy giving me the piss Tony or what?

It's a GFWL key, not an Origin one. You have to call EA and apparently they'll add it that way.

try again, you'll find someone helpful if you're persistent.

I thought their Origin chat would work, apparently not.

Okay, so the game is "clearly" GFW on the Amazon page and people are complaining that it's a GFW game. That is not clear enough to the consumer, apparently, and you never indicate that the EA games activate on Origin, so there is no where to tell that a game doesn't activate on Origin, you just kind of have to guess. I mean, yes, it is bullshit that an EA game doesn't activate on Origin... but I still think it should be more transparent.

See my edit above. The root cause here is that the customer thought this would activate on Origin (as I understand it) Elgnier can correct me if I am wrong. Not that they didn't know what do with their key or how to start playing their game.

So my question is, what messaging are you proposing on the detail page to make this clearer?

Also, we do indicate that Origin games require Origin.

From the detail page for Battlefield 3:

"Requires Origin account for game activation and online play.
You may download your purchase through Your Games & Software library at Amazon.com, or redeem your product key directly through Origin and download through their service."

Cheers,
Tony

 

[XEROWUN]

so i got an email from AT&T telling me i went over my internet usage limit(150GB/month). I never got that before. i need to stop downloading so many games.....

 

[Nelo Ice]

Okay, wait, I think I may be misinformed. The EA games are DRM free if you don't want to use Origin?

It says right on the page what DRM they use or if it's DRM free. Again apparently no one bothers to read past the purchase price or the OP or anywhere in this thread :lol.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Okay, wait, I think I may be misinformed. The EA games are DRM free if you don't want to use Origin?

YES. The only EA game that requires an origin account is Battlefield 3 from what I remember. Everything else you just play normally but some also redeem to add to an origin account if you so choose just like some amazon/retail keys will also redeem on steam but don't require steam as they are not steamworks games but merely are also redeemable there.

 

[Danj]

Wait, there's a Games for Windows Live download service? I thought it was just a (crappy) online multiplayer client?

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

Okay, wait, I think I may be misinformed. The EA games are DRM free if you don't want to use Origin?

No, they are not DRM free. Many require some form of DRM (Like Games for Windows Live), but do NOT require Origin to play.

Alternatively, some will activate on Origin optionally, but it is not a requirement to play (see Dragon Age)

Lastly, there are some games that requiring Origin to play (see Battlefield 3).

Going back to my original point, we can and continue to try and do a better job of telling people where they have to activate their games (Steamworks = Steam, Tages, GFWL, Securom, etc), but the problem here is that people want the game to ALSO activate on Origin, they also want their games to activate on Steam, and I'm sure if we dug hard enough we'd find some folks who want their games on their Desura library too, it is not feasible for us to individually address the fact that these games won't activate across these services where it is not a requirement.

Doing so would cause even more confusion.

Imagine these notes:

1. Battlefield 3 - This game requires Origin to activate
2. Bulletstorm - This game requires GFWL to activate, but you won't be able to add it to your Steam/Origin Library
3. Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition - This game does not require Origin to activate, but you can activate it there if you so choose. Even though this game is sold on Steam you won't be able to activate it there.
4. Assassin's Creed II - This game requires (whatever DRM ACII requires) but you can also add it to U-Play, even though it is sold on Steam, you won't be able to activate it there
5. Assassin's Creed Director's Cut - This game is DRM free, but if you want to add it to your U-Play library, contact Ubisoft with a screenshot of your purchase record and they'll add it there for you


Do you see how impossible this situation becomes?

Cheers,
Tony

 

[scitek]

YES. The only EA game that requires an origin account is Battlefield 3 from what I remember. Everything else you just play normally but some also redeem to add to an origin account if you so choose just like some amazon/retail keys will also redeem on steam but don't require steam as they are not steamworks games but merely are also redeemable there.

NFS The Run requires you to be logged into Origin for Autolog to work.

 

[Danj]

No, they are not DRM free. Many require some form of DRM (Like Games for Windows Live), but do NOT require Origin to play.

Alternatively, some will activate on Origin optionally, but it is not a requirement to play (see Dragon Age)

Lastly, there are some games that requiring Origin to play (see Battlefield 3).

Going back to my original point, we can and continue to try and do a better job of telling people where they have to activate their games (Steamworks = Steam, Tages, GFWL, Securom, etc), but the problem here is that people want the game to ALSO activate on Origin, they also want their games to activate on Steam, and I'm sure if we dug hard enough we'd find some folks who want their games on their Desura library too, it is not feasible for us to individually address the fact that these games won't activate across these services where it is not a requirement.

Doing so would cause even more confusion.

Imagine these notes:

1. Battlefield 3 - This game requires Origin to activate
2. Bulletstorm - This game requires GFWL to activate, but you won't be able to add it to your Steam/Origin Library
3. Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition - This game does not require Origin to activate, but you can activate it there if you so choose. Even though this game is sold on Steam you won't be able to activate it there.
4. Assassin's Creed II - This game requires (whatever DRM ACII requires) but you can also add it to U-Play, even though it is sold on Steam, you won't be able to activate it there
5. Assassin's Creed Director's Cut - This game is DRM free, but if you want to add it to your U-Play library, contact Ubisoft with a screenshot of your purchase record and they'll add it there for you


Do you see how impossible this situation becomes?

Cheers,
Tony

Maybe you could just represent this with icons and the services that products don't activate on would have the red crossed-circle "no" symbol over the top? But yeah I agree with your original point, the text should just say which services it does activate on.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

NFS The Run requires you to be logged into Origin for Autolog to work.

Ya, I know BF3 was the first but I don't follow all games like NFS so I wasn't sure if others do yet. What is autolog out of curiosity?

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

NFS The Run requires you to be logged into Origin for Autolog to work.

We also note this on the page in the system requirements:

Requires Origin account for installation and activation.

Understanding that the first response to this is going to be "THIS IS BELOW THE FOLD!"

I go back to the original point of this conversation. When we identify DRM above the fold. On the only image on the page, it is still missed enough to spark a conversation like this.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[Katoki]

Ya, I know BF3 was the first but I don't follow all games like NFS so I wasn't sure if others do yet. What is autolog out of curiosity?

Sort of a leader board system for their racing games. Shows you times your friends set and your own in the event you want to go back and redo something to beat their time again, so on and so forth. I don't know what else it does beyond that.

https://help.ea.com/article/what-is-autolog

Edit: Link is better. Shows how much I care for it.

 

[scitek]

Ya, I know BF3 was the first but I don't follow all games like NFS so I wasn't sure if others do yet. What is autolog out of curiosity?

It's basically like a Facebook wall where your times are posted, and when you beat a friend's time, he's notified of it the next time he logs in, and vice versa.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Seems EA CS via Origin can be a hit or miss.


If anything download it via Amazon then add it as a non steam game

 

[Fantastical]

No, they are not DRM free. Many require some form of DRM (Like Games for Windows Live), but do NOT require Origin to play.

Alternatively, some will activate on Origin optionally, but it is not a requirement to play (see Dragon Age)

Lastly, there are some games that requiring Origin to play (see Battlefield 3).

Going back to my original point, we can and continue to try and do a better job of telling people where they have to activate their games (Steamworks = Steam, Tages, GFWL, Securom, etc), but the problem here is that people want the game to ALSO activate on Origin, they also want their games to activate on Steam, and I'm sure if we dug hard enough we'd find some folks who want their games on their Desura library too, it is not feasible for us to individually address the fact that these games won't activate across these services where it is not a requirement.

Doing so would cause even more confusion.

Imagine these notes:

1. Battlefield 3 - This game requires Origin to activate
2. Bulletstorm - This game requires GFWL to activate, but you won't be able to add it to your Steam/Origin Library
3. Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition - This game does not require Origin to activate, but you can activate it there if you so choose. Even though this game is sold on Steam you won't be able to activate it there.
4. Assassin's Creed II - This game requires (whatever DRM ACII requires) but you can also add it to U-Play, even though it is sold on Steam, you won't be able to activate it there
5. Assassin's Creed Director's Cut - This game is DRM free, but if you want to add it to your U-Play library, contact Ubisoft with a screenshot of your purchase record and they'll add it there for you


Do you see how impossible this situation becomes?

Cheers,
Tony

Yeah, I understand now. I don't think you should have to say where everything doesn't register, but you should indicate directly where the code that comes with the download should work. There is just no indication at all what each code goes for. I suppose you can tell that the Bulletstorm code goes with GFW if you click on the Bulletstorm page and look at the boxart image and actually process that it's a GFW games instead of just kind of not paying attention to the boxart like I do.

Like on the bundle page, I think ideally there should be a list of games that has something like this

Mirror's Edge - Includes Origin product key
Burnout Paradise - Includes Origin product key
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames - Includes Origin product key
The Saboteur - Includes Origin product key
Bulletstorm - Includes Games For Windows Live product key

But again, I understand how that doesn't really tell that it doesn't activate on Origin, but at least I would have figured out sooner what it was I was looking at in my library. I didn't realize it wasn't an actual Origin code until I saw that it was 5 characters longer than the my other Origin codes.

EDIT: But then I guess that might indicate that the product key has to be used with Origin and not just by downloading it and activating it by itself. Hmmm...

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

Maybe you could just represent this with icons and the services that products don't activate on would have the red crossed-circle "no" symbol over the top? But yeah I agree with your original point, the text should just say which services it does activate on.

That's a fair suggestion but not one I could see adopting with any level of reliability. Games change DRM all the time (remove DRM completely, or add availability on new services like Origin or U-Play) I can't imagine what kind of nightmare it would be to manage the flow of information for thousands of games over the course of years as new services are introduced and die.

Can you imagine what kind of conversation would have occurred when Crysis 2 was pulled from Origin if we'd had the kind of system you're describing in place?

We'd have hordes of internet threads filled with "AMAZON'S STUPID LOGOS SAID MY GAME WAS AVAILABLE ON STEAM RAWRRRR THEY ARE THE BIGGEST LIARS EVAR!!!"

I think we have a clear responsibility to tell people where they'll have to activate their games. We have some gaps in this system that we're addressing systematically and above the fold. I think Bulletstorm is just a terrible example because it is so very clearly labeled above the fold and graphically.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[nickelpat]

A neat little tag some other DD sites are using now days is just a simple little "DRM Required: Steam".

It could be could be a good addition to Amazon's DD service, but I don't know how your service works and how hard it would be to work into it. It works suitably well as it is now, but it'd be a nice fix to put on the backburner.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It's basically like a Facebook wall where your times are posted, and when you beat a friend's time, he's notified of it the next time he logs in, and vice versa.

:lol EA has such a weird system with origin currently.

 

[Stallion Free]

NFS The Run is pretty terrible.

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

Yeah, I understand now. I don't think you should have to say where everything doesn't register, but you should indicate directly where the code that comes with the download should work. There is just no indication at all what each code goes for. I suppose you can tell that the Bulletstorm code goes with GFW if you click on the Bulletstorm page and look at the boxart image and actually process that it's a GFW games instead of just kind of not paying attention to the boxart like I do.

Like on the bundle page, I think ideally there should be a list of games that has something like this

Mirror's Edge - Includes Origin product key
Burnout Paradise - Includes Origin product key
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames - Includes Origin product key
The Saboteur - Includes Origin product key
Bulletstorm - Includes Games For Windows Live product key

But again, I understand how that doesn't really tell that it doesn't activate on Origin, but at least I would have figured out sooner what it was I was looking at in my library. I didn't realize it wasn't an actual Origin code until I saw that it was 5 characters longer than the my other Origin codes.

Yeah, this I totally agree with, and we have some systematic improvements in process that will do just this. Essentially there will be a link next to the "Ratings" link on the detail page that says "DRM" with a note as to what the DRM solution is for the game.

This was supposed to be completed in early June but apparently the team that was working on it was completely restructured. I'm now hoping to have something in production before October.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

A neat little tag some other DD sites are using now days is just a simple little "DRM Required: Steam".

It could be could be a good addition to Amazon's DD service, but I don't know how your service works and how hard it would be to work into it. It works suitably well as it is now, but it'd be a nice fix to put on the backburner.

But the problem is what people were complaining about wasn't drm... Bulletstorm has GFWL DRM not Origin... It just also redeems on Origin, sort of. Just like not every game that redeems on steam has steam DRM... They're just not the same.

 

[mik]

NFS The Run is pretty terrible.

On the plus side, it's over in two hours, tops.

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

A neat little tag some other DD sites are using now days is just a simple little "DRM Required: Steam".

It could be could be a good addition to Amazon's DD service, but I don't know how your service works and how hard it would be to work into it. It works suitably well as it is now, but it'd be a nice fix to put on the backburner.

Again, agreed with this completely, see my previous post, we most definitely have a responsibility to better communicate DRM solution on these games, this is in progress.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[nickelpat]

Again, agreed with this completely, see my previous post, we most definitely have a responsibility to better communicate DRM solution on these games, this is in progress.

Cheers,
Tony

My bad, I was just skimming through these posts and completely missed the point of the conversation.

I'll just stay out of this one and keeping enjoying my cheap games and great customer service.

 

[Stallion Free]

On the plus side, it's over in two hours, tops.

I just don't understand how the races generally look quite a bit worse than NFS Hot Pursuit.

 

[iSurvivedTheOutage]

Well looks like the best of the sale is gone...

 

[Fantastical]

I just don't understand how the races generally look quite a bit worse than NFS Hot Pursuit.

Different developers.

 

[Katoki]

It was so painful having to sit through the introduction scenes to Hot Pursuit because you couldn't bypass it. Then every time something new happens you do the waiting all over. Bah!

 

[Danj]

I think we have a clear responsibility to tell people where they'll have to activate their games. We have some gaps in this system that we're addressing systematically and above the fold. I think Bulletstorm is just a terrible example because it is so very clearly labeled above the fold and graphically.

Cheers,
Tony

To be fair though, until somebody brought it up in here I didn't even know there was a Games for Windows Live download service, I thought it was just for online multiplayer, which is why I thought that it wasn't enough simply to assume users would identify the service required by the fact that the box art has GFWL all over the top. My opinion is that there needs to be text to accompany this.

 

[Zat]

To be fair though, until somebody brought it up in here I didn't even know there was a Games for Windows Live download service, I thought it was just for online multiplayer, which is why I thought that it wasn't enough simply to assume users would identify the service required by the fact that the box art has GFWL all over the top. My opinion is that there needs to be text to accompany this.

To be fair, the fact that these games need to be activated through the Games for Windows Live overlay does not mean that you will be able to download them through its download service, GfW Marketplace. That only works for games you buy directly from the Marketplace store. So no, the download service really has nothing to do with this; you're still going to need to download the games directly from Amazon.

 

[RelentlessRolento]

How solid is the single player in Payday? Might nab it for my dad

 

[Stallion Free]

Different developers.

Well obviously. But these devs have newer tools available to them. The gap shouldn't be that large.

How solid is the single player in Payday? Might nab it for my dad

Terrible. It demands to be played in co-op.

 

[Danj]

To be fair, the fact that these games need to be activated through the Games for Windows Live overlay does not mean that you will be able to download them through its download service, GfW Marketplace. That only works for games you buy directly from the Marketplace store. So no, the download service really has nothing to do with this; you're still going to need to download the games directly from Amazon.

Oh. Well that's horribly confusing. Still I guess that is Microsoft's fault not Amazon's.

 

[RelentlessRolento]

Terrible. It demands to be played in co-op.

K. Might grab the multi pack so I can play with my dad then

 

[WAR recon zero]

I think amazon list clearly the activation and DRM restrictions. However, I tend to use this page, CAG or amazon forums if I have any doubts

 

[Fantastical]

Do other retailers offer Origin codes like Amazon does?

EDIT: Okay again misunderstanding. I guess you would use the same product key to activate the game by downloading it from Amazon?

 

[hlhbk]

That's what I said.


...sorry, I'll get off your case. It just baffles me a bit how someone can play video games solely for story when it's by far the weakest aspect of the medium (so far).

That is your opinion. In my opinion many games have been telling far better stories than anything in Hollywood or TV for years. Some even rival books.

 

[IcyRhythms]

is Alice Madness returns DX9 or DX11?

 

[Stallion Free]

is Alice Madness returns DX9 or DX11?

DX9

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I have 5 Amazon giftcards from apptrailers.

Can I use them for digital Downloads?

 

[sazzy]

Tony, any word on upcoming deals?

 

[TheApatheticOne]

Out of curiosity, any update on the issue with the Arma II: CO keys? : (

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Oh. Well that's horribly confusing. Still I guess that is Microsoft's fault not Amazon's.

There's really isn't though. It's just the DRM they use. They have never allowed it to add to your the marketplace history to download.

I have 5 Amazon giftcards from apptrailers.

Can I use them for digital Downloads?

Dunno, try them? You always get an order confirmation page, there's no one click for digital purchases so you can try anyone to see if it's deducting and then back out of the transaction.

 

[Amazon Video Gamer]

Tony, any word on upcoming deals?

Hold on to your hats! Our DotEmu catalog will be 60% off!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node=979455011&field-keywords=dotemu

Seriously though, I'm still waiting to hear back from THQ on a SRTT deal, and from the Sniper guys on their stuff.

I heard back from Deep Silver, but don't think the suggestions are good enough so I'm pushing for better ones. If I can't get them we'll run the promo but I'm not going to push it hard in the forums.

Out of curiosity, any update on the issue with the Arma II: CO keys? : (

Not yet, I'm getting the cold shoulder .

Cheers,
Tony