The Dark Knight Rises |OT| The Legend Ends (Warning: Unmarked Spoilers Within)

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Scullibundo said:
TDK is MUCH darker imo.

There is a palpable undercurrent of danger and menace running all throughout TDK that TDKR doesn't manage outside of one scene.

I'm thinking of scenes like the Mascara mayor looking out of the window while talking to Dent and then BAM - jokered-up dead Batman hanging from a noose.

The heightened sense of fear (credit to Zimmer's ramping score and the editing) when all of the Joker's targets are moved on and then Bruce's 'They're coming for him!' to introduce Joker to the penhouse party.

Dent putting himself in danger but going in the SWAT van, followed by the overhead tracking of the van throughout the city to the taughtening of that goddamn violin string. I was on the edge of my fucking seat.

The interrogation where you realise what Joker's done and how he immediately makes Batman the scared, desperate and powerless one in the cell.

The whole confrontation between Dent and Gordon. JNH's score fucking made that scene along with Oldman's performance.

Joker is killing Bruce's love and driving people to insanity (ZOMG Dent hospital silent screaming) in TDK. Shit is dark as fuck.

I can't believe you just made me go to huge lengths to champion TDK. You've made DM of old very happy.
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I replied to you in the spoiler thread due to...spoilers...lol:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40324729&postcount=14910
 
I think I liked the story, but really, it could've been at least 30 minutes shorter. I really got bored around halfway through.


Edit 1: Catwoman is the highlight of the movie.
 
I just finished watching TDK. Its been a while since I saw it last.

I'll wait to see Rises again before I try this 'ranking' thing, but I really feel TDK might be the better movie, though I enjoyed TDKR.
 
Vyer said:
I just finished watching TDK. Its been a while since I saw it last.

I'll wait to see Rises again before I try this 'ranking' thing, but I really feel TDK might be the better movie, though I enjoyed TDKR.
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I found TDKR just as good because the shit well and truly did hit the fan for Gotham and Batman. And I thought it was handled well for the most part. Plus Bane matched Joker's performance though I still think Harvey Dent/Two Face is the best character in the trilogy because his story arc was just magnificently portrayed.
 
Finally saw this thing.

First, I'd be remiss if I first don't mention the goddamn soundtrack. One of the most obnoxious and awfully counter-productive movie scores I've had the displeasure of experiencing. 3 hours of nonstop bombastic drums, swelling violins and yelling choirs. I mean, what the fuck? Even when nothing is really happening the movie is still soundpounding your ears into submission. Sometimes you'll get a nice cue from Batman Begins and then 10 seconds later BLAM BLAM BLAM HOOAH HOOAH HOOAH HHAAA HAA HAAA. Ugh, just ugh. Tiring, very tiring stuff. It really contributed negatively to my movie watching experience.

On the movie itself, I thought it was uneven. Some good parts, some boring parts, some slow stuff, some really amazing action, and unfortunately also a lot of nonsense, leaps of logic and coincidences. Oh well. Had a good time, but I don't see myself seeing it in theaters again. In contrast, I watched TDK three times on its opening weekend. It's just not as entertaining, and it doesn't have a character as enjoyable to watch and as charismatic as the Joker. Not even remotely close. It's such bleak and tiring film with nonstop tension, and goes on for so long. I really dug the third act though, lots of nice surprises. Nolan's bat-trilogy ends well, although not fantastically so. I put TDKR in third place. I could expand more but eh.
 
jett said:
Finally saw this thing.

First, I'd be remiss if I first don't mention the goddamn soundtrack. One of the most obnoxious and awfully counter-productive movie scores I've had the displeasure of experiencing. 3 hours of nonstop bombastic drums, swelling violins and yelling choirs. I mean, what the fuck? Even when nothing is really happening the movie is still soundpounding your ears into submission. Sometimes you'll get a nice cue from Batman Begins and then 10 seconds later BLAM BLAM BLAM HOOAH HOOAH HOOAH HHAAA HAA HAAA. Ugh, just ugh. Tiring, very tiring stuff. It really contributed negatively to my movie watching experience.

On the movie itself, I thought it was uneven. Some good parts, some boring parts, some slow stuff, some really amazing action, and unfortunately also a lot of nonsense, leaps of logic and coincidences. Oh well. Had a good time, but I don't see myself seeing it in theaters again. In contrast, I watched TDK three times on its opening weekend. It's just not as entertaining, and it doesn't have a character as enjoyable to watch and as charismatic as the Joker. Not even remotely close. It's such bleak and tiring film with nonstop tension, and goes on for so long. I really dug the third act though, lots of nice surprises. Nolan's bat-trilogy ends well, although not fantastically so. I put TDKR in third place. I could expand more but eh.
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Did you see this in IMAX? Score destroyed my ears in IMAX. Less so in a regular theater so that was probably the one positive aspect of not seeing it in IMAX.
 
CepPyBoy said:
I found TDKR just as good because the shit well and truly did hit the fan for Gotham and Batman. And I thought it was handled well for the most part. Plus Bane matched Joker's performance though I still think Harvey Dent/Two Face is the best character in the trilogy because his story arc was just magnificently portrayed.
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I felt like they both had done amazing moments and performances, it's just that TDK feels a lot stronger with everything in between.

Again, though, I should probably wait to see Rises once more.
 
Amir0x said:
the greatest shot of the series is still Heath Ledger's joker, head out of the vehicle like a foaming rabid dog, electric, the floor of the music dropping out from under us as the sheer gravity of the escalation hits everyone square in the chest.
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I didn't notice it for the longest time, but I love how the car The Joker's in is swerving madly from side to side across lanes. You don't really notice it because the camera is attached to the car so it never seems too out of place - sort of seems like the car is just driving forward. But everything else in the back is in absolute disarray.
 
It may sound strange because it's so minor, but one of my favorite Joker moments is how he's laughing as he falls from the building at the end.
 
jett said:
:brofist


Oh and forgot to mention the most positive aspect of it, the gorgeous cinematography. Wally Pfister going for another Oscar nom for sure.
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You know, Wall Pfister always gets a lot of praise, and it's true - there are always a handful of beautiful shots in his movies. But one of the things Nolan gets a lot of flack for is that he's not a very 'visual' director. That is, he doesn't tell his stories using visuals much at all. It's often the dialogue or the action of characters that drive the story, rather than the visuals.

To be more specific, how often can you take a screencap from a Nolan film and, just based on that screencap, get somewhat of an understanding of the story being told or the emotion involved in the scene? You can really see his shortcomings in things like his Gotham in TDK/TDKR really just looking like a regular city. Or when the Batman suit always being in pristine condition - they never really alter it to subconsciously work the audience.

Anyway, that's a big diversion - my point is, I think some of the blame can be leveled at Wally Pfister for this. I'm not sure he's as great a cinematographer as he is touted as. Yes it's all well and good when you can stand back and say "Well that's a lovely shot" but his job first and foremost is to tell a story using camera and lighting. And I feel like that doesn't happen enough. The climax in TDK (Harvey's flip) has some of the blandest lighting and tells us nothing further than "Dark, gritty." Why not set this scene at dawn, allowing some pinks and yellows into the shots? This references the line "The night is darkest just before the dawn... The dawn is coming." So the dawn is introduced - now it's time to see whether or not Harvey's words run true in this clutch, tense moment.

That's just off the top of my head, but I feel like there are so many missed opportunities in regards to cinematography in the Nolan Batman films, where the result is a 'realistic looking' scene, rather than a story-focused one. And of course, a lot of this is Nolan's fault, but I'm not sure Pfister is the cinematographer we need and deserve.

But just to be sure - I think Nolan is fantastic and Pfister is good a lot of the time, but those are my concerns.

Vyer said:
It may sound strange because it's so minor, but one of my favorite Joker moments is how he's laughing as he falls from the building at the end.
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I don't think that's minor. That's a really cool character moment - sums him up well. The Joker is the unbeatable villain. Absolutely no rules or inconsistencies. A perfect agent of chaos such that even in the face of death he is laughing. A near-death experience won't change anything about him. Furthermore, he's laughing because he's actually won (until Batman saves him). He's laughing because he believes Batman has broken his one rule, and has therefore defeated Batman. He's celebrating success while falling off a building. Really cool.
 
Dommo said:
You know, Wall Pfister always gets a lot of praise, and it's true - there are always a handful of beautiful shots in his movies. But one of the things Nolan gets a lot of flack for is that he's not a very 'visual' director. That is, he doesn't tell his stories using visuals much at all. It's often the dialogue or the action of characters that drive the story, rather than the visuals.

To be more specific, how often can you take a screencap from a Nolan film and, just based on that screencap, get somewhat of an understanding of the story being told or the emotion involved in the scene? You can really see his shortcomings in things like his Gotham in TDK/TDKR really just looking like a regular city. Or when the Batman suit always being in pristine condition - they never really alter it to subconsciously work the audience.

Anyway, that's a big diversion - my point is, I think some of the blame can be leveled at Wally Pfister for this. I'm not sure he's as great a cinematographer as he is touted as. Yes it's all well and good when you can stand back and say "Well that's a lovely shot" but his job first and foremost is to tell a story using camera and lighting. And I feel like that doesn't happen enough. The climax in TDK (Harvey's flip) has some of the blandest lighting and tells us nothing further than "Dark, gritty." Why not set this scene at dawn, allowing some pinks and yellows into the shots? This references the line "The night is darkest just before the dawn... The dawn is coming." So the dawn is introduced - now it's time to see whether or not Harvey's words run true in this clutch, tense moment.

That's just off the top of my head, but I feel like there are so many missed opportunities in regards to cinematography in the Nolan Batman films, where the result is a 'realistic looking' scene, rather than a story-focused one. And of course, a lot of this is Nolan's fault, but I'm not sure Pfister is the cinematographer we need and deserve.

But just to be sure - I think Nolan is fantastic and Pfister is good a lot of the time, but those are my concerns.
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I was with your post up until reading this and then stopped and had a good laugh.
 
Dommo said:
I didn't notice it for the longest time, but I love how the car The Joker's in is swerving madly from side to side across lanes. You don't really notice it because the camera is attached to the car so it never seems too out of place - sort of seems like the car is just driving forward. But everything else in the back is in absolute disarray.
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Lau can't drive.
 
Jett I've read your review and you are spot on about the use of audio. I've also mentioned how the soundtrack tries forcefully to engage you rather than the actual plot. You are in the 'eh it way alright, least enjoyable of the bunch' club. But you can join me in the no bullshit 'Fuck this shit' club.
 
Scullibundo said:
I was with your post up until reading this and then stopped and had a good laugh.
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Not sure why, Sculli. The idea seems overwrought, but are you having a go at the notion of climaxing at dawn, which is a common trope? Or in regards to the 'dawn' metaphor being taken too literally? Obviously my idea isn't great. I thought of it off the top of my head but I don't think it's Lol worthy. So, defend your jab at me!
 
Dommo said:
Not sure why, Sculli. The idea seems overwrought, but are you having a go at the notion of climaxing at dawn, which is a common trope? Or in regards to the 'dawn' metaphor being taken too literally? Obviously my idea isn't great. I thought of it off the top of my head but I don't think it's Lol worthy. So, defend your jab at me!
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Because it would rob that scene of a lot of its atmosphere and mood. A lot of the time, the job of the DP is to tell the emotional story and recognise where the audience is at. That scene is where we're at the darkest place. It's the same reason why you don't set most of a Terminator film during the day (Jonathan Mostow!) The photography enhances the dire emotional state of our characters and the depths to which they have been sunk to.

Like I said, I was with your post up until that segment.
 
Scullibundo said:
Because it would rob that scene of a lot of its atmosphere and mood. A lot of the time, the job of the DP is to tell the emotional story and recognise where the audience is at. That scene is where we're at the darkest place. It's the same reason why you don't set most of a Terminator film during the day (Jonathan Mostow!) The photography enhances the dire emotional state of our characters and the depths to which they have been sunk to.

Like I said, I was with your post up until that segment.
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Yes, absolutely, but I'm not sure that just making things physically dark (like really dark - like one keylight dark) really conveys a sense of dread or despair or at least - I don't think it's close to being the best way of conveying those emotions.

Blader5489 said:
XST9N.jpg
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This shot is arguably the lowest point for Batman in the film (makes sense - end of Act 2 and all that) and it's visibly at dawn. It's dark, emotional, atmospheric and there's a sense of despair without it being 'real fucking dark.' Same problem I had with the later Harry Potter films. The lighting got literally darker, paralleling the emotional state of the world, but I couldn't actually see what was going on, and a lot of scenes became visually dull and unable to convey anything story-wise other than 'dark, desperation.'

I think there's more to convey to the audience in the final scene of TDK than simply that it's a low point for the characters. Seems overly simple.
 
Got the chance to see it last night. I quite liked it, but I think TDK is the better movie, in this one I had some issues with the pacing and flow.

Christopher Judge had a small role in it though, that was fun.
 
Scullibundo said:
Because it would rob that scene of a lot of its atmosphere and mood. A lot of the time, the job of the DP is to tell the emotional story and recognise where the audience is at. That scene is where we're at the darkest place. It's the same reason why you don't set most of a Terminator film during the day (Jonathan Mostow!) The photography enhances the dire emotional state of our characters and the depths to which they have been sunk to.

Like I said, I was with your post up until that segment.
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Nolan Batman nighttime scenes are sooooo good.
 
Saw this last night, I loved it.
Need to see it again before I can really compare it to the other two films.

Of course there were flaws, but none of them seemed to matter after the film ended. I just felt extremely pleased and a bit emotionally drained. It's over. The trilogy is done. It was sad for me, waited four years for this movie.
 
jett said:
Finally saw this thing.
*impressions*
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oh boy, expectations at an all time low. :/

I already am not a fan of PASA PASA QUE QUE, and this doesnt sound encouraging.

You found the film uneven, how about the pacing? Did the 3hrs felt like a chore or did they go by well enough?
 
Saw it again today in our IMAX theatre... IMAX is incredible. That film just feels so perfect with such amazingly powerful imagery.

Anyway, seeing it again just made my thoughts on it clearer; this was the strongest the three films. Tom Hardy knocked this one out the park and really perfected Bane.

Probably see it for a third time soon.
 
dmshaposv said:
oh boy, expectations at an all time low. :/

I already am not a fan of PASA PASA QUE QUE, and this doesnt sound encouraging.

You found the film uneven, how about the pacing? Did the 3hrs felt like a chore or did they go by well enough?
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Eh it was okay, it's not too bad. Doesn't have the greatest pacing though. The 3 hours definitely did not flew by.
 
Blader5489 said:
On second thought, maybe this:

XST9N.jpg
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Yes to this. Even to this day The Dark Knight has more to offer as a film than any of the Nolan Batman trilogy. Its truly a sign of our times and representative of our hopes and fears, and that to me is one of the main and best purposes of film. To externalize those things, and to explore them.

Batman Begins is a great superhero movie and I appreciate it as such, but the Dark Knight is something more, and even as I love it it makes me uncomfortable in what it has to say.
 
Tdk is definitely more grim in it's presentation. Tdkr may have had a grim concept but that wasn't conveyed as well it was in tdk. I was actually surprised to see some reviews mention how grim tdkr was when its really more like a middle ground between tdk and bb in terms of tone.
 
dmshaposv said:
oh boy, expectations at an all time low. :/

I already am not a fan of PASA PASA QUE QUE, and this doesnt sound encouraging.

You found the film uneven, how about the pacing? Did the 3hrs felt like a chore or did they go by well enough?
Click to expand...

I'd say the first hour feels longest because of several story threads /subplots that add nothing to the big picture later on.
 
Vyer said:
It may sound strange because it's so minor, but one of my favorite Joker moments is how he's laughing as he falls from the building at the end.
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My only problem with that scene is that Ledger's Joker laugh is really bad. I cringed everytime he tried to laugh in the entirety of The Dark Knight (other than his fake laugh at the beginning).
 
Solo said:
This shot makes me lolz bedcause the firefighters don't even notice that the goddamned Batman is standing there, posing all somberly.
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Not sure what is lol inducing there .. you want firefighters to stop doing their jobs and look at Batman?
 
TDK for me was a better film than TDKR. I loved the mob bosses in TDK, they were different and yet so entertaining. The minor characters in TDKR were not so memorable.
 
Watched this a couple days ago. Easily the worst of the 3. Way too long, incredibly slow at part, disjointed, full of eye-rollingly bad cliches and massive plotholes, and on the whole simply not entertaining. Also doesn't help that Bane is incomprehensible half the time and I missed most of his lines. Massive dissapointment.
 
Saw it a 2nd time time at on OMNImax theater (1st time was IMAX). The omnimax was interesting but it is a terrible way to watch theatrical movies. Didn't change any of my beliefs though. The Dark Knight and Batman Begins are better even though Rises is still a good movie. And with that ending they through in there god damnit I WANT MORE. Also I think the lack of Bruce/Batman in the movie makes me crave more. It was a decent end to the series, but not the one it deserves.
 
Does anyone ever explain in all three movies why Bale puts on fake voice when he is Batman? he puts on this stupid faux deep voice whenever the mask comes on - does he ever mention why or does he just think it makes him sound cool?
 
Paradoxal_Utopia said:
Watched this a couple days ago. Easily the worst of the 3. Way too long, incredibly slow at part, disjointed, full of eye-rollingly bad cliches and massive plotholes, and on the whole simply not entertaining. Also doesn't help that Bane is incomprehensible half the time and I missed most of his lines. Massive dissapointment.
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Couldnt have said it better myself.
 
Phat Michael said:
Does anyone ever explain in all three movies why Bale puts on fake voice when he is Batman? he puts on this stupid faux deep voice whenever the mask comes on - does he ever mention why or does he just think it makes him sound cool?
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To conceal his identity and sound intimidating. He actually did in the Flass "SHWEARRR TO MEE" scene in BB.

In TDK he had more dialogue and kinda exaggerated the voice - so it sounds worse.

Edit: Also it sucks I'm stuck in this thread while all my bat-gaf bros are in the spoiler thread. Feels bat-man. :(
 
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