Carts vs Virtual Console
- Thread starter Celeryface
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davonaytor
Member
Virtual Console, there's only one reason for me, and that's save data.
I've had a few cartridges completely erase all my saves because the internal battery had died. I know they are replaceable but I don't want to worry about losing any progress.
I've had a few cartridges completely erase all my saves because the internal battery had died. I know they are replaceable but I don't want to worry about losing any progress.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Virtual Console in theory. by that i mean if the prices weren't as ridiculous as they are and if Nintendo didn't stop giving a shit about the selection a long time ago
Freezie KO
Banned
I have a bunch of carts, NES through N64. If I wasn't lazy, I'd put them all up on ebay and go all digital.
VC is pretty good, but honestly get an adapter that enables you to use the original controllers for the games. I can't stand to play Super Mario World or something with the Classic Controller.
Although there's still so many games that are not and will not be available on the VC, so it's necessary for me to keep a NES/SNES/Genesis/N64 nearby.
Although there's still so many games that are not and will not be available on the VC, so it's necessary for me to keep a NES/SNES/Genesis/N64 nearby.
VC all the way. Games look and play great. Probably have 180 VC titles. Even the MSX stuff is fun...how else is one likely to play Space Manbow? And I don't collect carts anyways. I am buying PC-Engine Hus again, but that is just for fun. And that is one area where the emulation is a bit dodgy.
Folks complaining about the breadth of catalog on VC, really? There are hundreds and hundreds with tons of variety. Not everything, but cool things like Master system games with both sound options and CD-only releases like Ironclad.
And 3DS emulation...phenomonal. So much better than on the real systems. Though I do keep a Gameboy Color around for nostalgia.
Folks complaining about the breadth of catalog on VC, really? There are hundreds and hundreds with tons of variety. Not everything, but cool things like Master system games with both sound options and CD-only releases like Ironclad.
And 3DS emulation...phenomonal. So much better than on the real systems. Though I do keep a Gameboy Color around for nostalgia.
Doctor Decimate
Member
aren't they selling an SNES controller attachment for the Wii remote?
No? At least not that I know of. There was that SNES Classic Controller that was given to Japan and Europe Club Nintendo members, but that's hard to come by/expensive. There are adapters that plug into the GameCube port that allow you to use SNES or N64 controllers though, and they can be found on the internet for 10-20 bucks.
This is honestly the worst possible example you could use. Not only do they actually have a replica SFC controller but the classic controller is about 90%+ the same. You could have said something like Super Mario Bros because the buttons are flipped from the standard SNES scheme, though technically not wrong it's a bitch to play.
Try playing SMW with a GameCube controller. *cries*
I've actually found that playing N64 games with today's controllers feels much more comfortable. I don't know why people still think using the original controller is good. That controller wasn't very well made!
That's what I do too. But if they did allow button configs then I wouldn't need to. The sideways Wiiremote is not perfect because it's a little fat and the trigger messes with your grip.
Starsunder
Member
VC. Just wish the companies would bring out some of the more obscure titles (looking at you E.V.O Search for Eden).
To Far Away Times
Member
Nothing beats slamming home a cartridge and using original hardware.
Square-Enix is notoriously slow for as much as they love to whore out old properties. Didn't release the Quintet games either.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They did do Actraiser, to some fanfare. No clue why they've dragged their feet on the Soulblazer trilogy though, I think there'd be a lot of interest in them.
Small Mailman
Member
I buy any cartridges I can get. I don't really know why but I prefer playing games on the console they were intended for. Always hits a sweet spot for me nostalgically too.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, the lack of sales is appalling too.
ive got a great cart collection & still have my S/NES hooked up, but i do find myself using them less for some of the OP's reasons too.
now that VC is confirmed to make the move, ive been debating picking up my absolute SNES favorites - ZAMN, SC IV, SM, Contra III, SMW, LTTP etc etc just because i never tie of replaying them when a modern title on me needs a break. i guess im mostly waiting for a good deal on a points card or something.
I only collect physical copies myself.
Unfortunately, most retro systems do not work particularly well on a flat panel display by default. Something like XRGB3 would improve things, but really, the bet way to go is to use a proper CRT for all retro gaming.
The Wii does output a higher quality progressive signal for retro games, however, which TVs tend to handle more easily. This is why you're seeing improved visuals and response.
Unfortunately, most retro systems do not work particularly well on a flat panel display by default. Something like XRGB3 would improve things, but really, the bet way to go is to use a proper CRT for all retro gaming.
The Wii does output a higher quality progressive signal for retro games, however, which TVs tend to handle more easily. This is why you're seeing improved visuals and response.
A few years ago I bought alot of VC games but stoped due to 480p, lack of emulator options and lack of an actual account to store my games on. I much prefer playing emulated games on my PC.
I highly doubt this! Don't think VC can match the accuracy of low-level emulators on PC.
And whatever filter they are using for the SNES emulator is awful.
I highly doubt this! Don't think VC can match the accuracy of low-level emulators on PC.
And whatever filter they are using for the SNES emulator is awful.
Carts. I actually jumped into active retrogaming a few weeks ago with a "brand new" SNES. Already cleared Final Fantasy USA: Mystic Quest and a few hours of gameplay to go in Evermore. It looks good in 14:9 mode (yeah, 14:9) on my 32" HDTV. That's pixelated but that's how I like it - and I sit from a decent distance of the screen. Thats' also slighty stretched but overall it's Ok.
I never managed to get some good gameplay on emulators or even totally on virtual console.
The experience simply doesn't feel entierely right, particularly because of the controllers.
In a matter of fact, I think with the soon 30+ aged NES, and looking at the Ouya, Nintendo should release a cheap retro system able to play their 3 home console cardridges games, along with a connection to their Nintendo Network/Virtual Console/Wiiware service, and/or a cloud gaming service. Just a raw idea for the moment, very unlikely of course, but I'd like to hear advices regarding it!
I never managed to get some good gameplay on emulators or even totally on virtual console.
The experience simply doesn't feel entierely right, particularly because of the controllers.
In a matter of fact, I think with the soon 30+ aged NES, and looking at the Ouya, Nintendo should release a cheap retro system able to play their 3 home console cardridges games, along with a connection to their Nintendo Network/Virtual Console/Wiiware service, and/or a cloud gaming service. Just a raw idea for the moment, very unlikely of course, but I'd like to hear advices regarding it!
God damn, I scroll past this thread title for the third time and once again read it as Cats vs Virtual Console.
It's too hot today.
On the topic: I like cartridges, however I have almost none left in my own possession. I suppose NDS and 3DS and Vita cartridges come close, but they are more like little memory cards, not housed in a large plastic container.
It's too hot today.
On the topic: I like cartridges, however I have almost none left in my own possession. I suppose NDS and 3DS and Vita cartridges come close, but they are more like little memory cards, not housed in a large plastic container.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
VC if I have transferability peace of mind.
So cartridges.
So cartridges.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
There's no filter, VC SNES games render at the original resolution.
The only filtered VC platforms are (earlier) TG16 stuff which has a nasty blur filter and N64 which softens sprites/textures and renders at 480p, which looks a lot better than the N64 originals did.
That's not true. The VC does not output proper 240p.
Carts.
If I'm emulating, I prefer PC emulation to VC.
Are you sure, dark? I have absolutely seen progressive images from SNES and NES VC games hooked up to an SDTV. Or do you mean something more specific than "a low resolution progressive signal" when you say "proper 240p"?
If I'm emulating, I prefer PC emulation to VC.
dark10x said:
Are you sure, dark? I have absolutely seen progressive images from SNES and NES VC games hooked up to an SDTV. Or do you mean something more specific than "a low resolution progressive signal" when you say "proper 240p"?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
You're wrong, though you need to use the button combo to activate 240p on component. Here are the steps:
1. Start a virtual console game
2. Press the Home button to bring up the Home menu, and then click on Operations Manual
3. Attach a Nunchuk controller to your Wii remote
4. Press A+2+Z simultaneously (A and 2 are on your Wii remote, Z on your Nunchuk)
5. You should hear a sound confirming that you've done this correctly. This should activate 480i mode for all
6. to switch back to 240p mode for VC, follow the same steps as above, but press A+1+Z instead
And yes, it's been confirmed the Wii sends a true 240p signal. Initially VC games were only 240p/480p though there were display issues with some sets and in 2007 Nintendo started defaulting to 480i/480p, though you can still access 240p for most games. The only ones that can't iirc are TG16 (though CD games can) and N64.
Show me a better collection of vintage console games.
I didn't realize this was possible. Very cool. By default, it doesn't display in 240p, but that's a neat feature.
I'll have to test it. The receiver I use for my home theater does NOT support 240p at all so it should be easy enough to test.
I'm actually buying games half and half these days. It's a matter of convenience versus price a lot of the time.
People say VC games are overpriced, but in my experience most of those prices are cheaper than what the cart currently costs. I'll take paying $8 to download an SNES game versus paying $20-$50 for the cart. Also, I like how close Nintendo has gotten VC to the original console experience, especially for NES and SNES games with the controllers, save states, and manuals.
On the flipside I actually run into a lot of carts these days that either aren't on VC yet or are actually cheaper than on VC. Since discovering Play N' Trade, eStarland, and going to Otakon, my cart collection has grown considerably.
People say VC games are overpriced, but in my experience most of those prices are cheaper than what the cart currently costs. I'll take paying $8 to download an SNES game versus paying $20-$50 for the cart. Also, I like how close Nintendo has gotten VC to the original console experience, especially for NES and SNES games with the controllers, save states, and manuals.
On the flipside I actually run into a lot of carts these days that either aren't on VC yet or are actually cheaper than on VC. Since discovering Play N' Trade, eStarland, and going to Otakon, my cart collection has grown considerably.
Red Liquorice
Member
Mint SNES cart is worth something on the second hand market, a rom dump is worth nothing.
I like the convenience of VC, but the expense and this general argument against digital downloads are a barrier.
I like the convenience of VC, but the expense and this general argument against digital downloads are a barrier.
anotherVegan
Member
I do prefer Carts. I am a collector first and foremost. But I'll use the VC for games I could otherwise not play, not easily obtain, or for hardware that I don't have. I've had my N64 lost from my old home, so that Virtual Console spot of Majora's Mask has a permanent spot on my Wii.
I kept my Sony Trinitron and I buy carts unless it's just too expensive, aka many Neo Geo cart games. I may solve that by getting a Neo Geo CD for certain titles, though.
The Nintendo Virtual Console emulation is fantastic. It's definitely a legitimate way to buy and play these games. However, the original controllers are a huge part of the experience for me, so that's the main reason I haven't done as much purchasing on VC. I have been buying Game Boy stuff on 3DS though. I like having all my portable things at the same location.
The Nintendo Virtual Console emulation is fantastic. It's definitely a legitimate way to buy and play these games. However, the original controllers are a huge part of the experience for me, so that's the main reason I haven't done as much purchasing on VC. I have been buying Game Boy stuff on 3DS though. I like having all my portable things at the same location.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I really wish Nintendo would just give the SNES Classic Controller a retail release. Even online/select stores only would be great.
I'd love it if ASCII did Saturn and NeoGeo Classic Controllers too.
I'd love it if ASCII did Saturn and NeoGeo Classic Controllers too.
But you have to already own the cart and have kept it in good condition or buy it mint which is very expensive.
Neo CD is pretty crap, though. The slow access times really slow down just about all games and the units themselves are not reliable.
No way. Doesn't Nintendo adjust the emulator on a per game basis? That says everything.
bsnes, nestopia/nintendulator, and gambatte are definitely more accurate than whatever Nintendo has for SNES/NES/GBC.
I'm thinking for something like Windjammers, Viewpoint, etc. that I can save some bucks but also deal with the load times. I wouldn't get a fighter on there at all.
Also, if I can't deal, these things hold their value so I'd be able to get back what I spent or look at it as a rental fee if I sold it again.
For playing I rather use any kind of emulation available. It provides you with more options than any of the official consoles ever will - as long as the emulations are 100% perfect.
That's because the TV you're using is processing the analog image to display it properly on it's monitor. Most likely, it's de-interlacing, resizing and applying a shitload of useless filters - and they all come turned on by default on nowadays televisions.
If your TV Set has a "Gaming" profile, use that. If it's interpolating frames (The name varies from model to model. Intelli-Frame and Frame Interpolation are a couple of examples), disable that immediately for every single input (except maybe for Sports).
That depends on the kind of game and the kind of emulation being performed. On 3D games, the rendering resolution can be increased. On 2D games, smoothing filters can be applied, but I personally hate them.
I know you're using the "Virtual Console" nomenclature to reefer to those "older games being played on newer systems", but the "Virtual Console" is nothing but an Official Nintendo Emulator. Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 also have emulators for older software. They're all essentially the same thing, but with different options and ways to handle the emulated content.
Yes, there are some TVs better than others. It's not a blanket statement, I can't tell you that this technology is much better than this other one. It's on a model by model basis.
My personal preference is that Plasmas are better for 480i and lower content (which is what most cart-based consoles spit out). But, as long as you can turn all the shitty filters and image post processing off, you'll be fine with most TVs. The problem is that some TVs don't allow you to use the "Gaming" profile, or tweak the options of some inputs, which is a real problem with no easy solution.
I dunno man... I've never been as happy with PC emulation as I have with Nintendo's Virtual Console stuff.
Yes, it says everything. It says they go out of their way to emulate each individual game accurately instead of using one catch-all emulator for everything and expecting it to work.
Uh, an accurate emulator should be able to emulate everything without having to use game specific hacks. Which is what those emulators I named do. The original hardware wasn't adjusted on a per game basis.
Plasmas definitely do a better job, in general, but they still are far from optimal. I suppose if you couple a plasma with an XRGB you'll be getting some fantastic results, but a direct connection tends to be a bit ugly.
LCDs typically do a very very poor job with low resolution material, I've found, and many modern displays will not even properly DISPLAY 240p to begin with. S-video has also all but disappeared as of late.
A standard CRT is THE way to go, if you have the space. The appearance of 240p material on one of these displays is not something that can be replicated by even the best filters. The appearance of active phosphors is so very specific.
BSNES *IS* nearly (if not completely) 100% accurate, however. It's a very good emulator. If you couple that with a video card capable of 240p on a CRT you'll produce a perfect duplication of SNES visuals (perhaps even cleaner).
Wow.
Max Knight
Member
I usually get the original cartridge, if I can find it for a reasonable price (under $75, with a few exceptions). My childhood carried over a lot of the games that are more expensive these days. Thanks mom!
I play all my standard definition games on a 27" CRT TV. A good CRT is the only way I would recommend playing old consoles, as LCD's almost always introduce noticeable input lag (and the picture usually looks shit too, IMO).
I play all my standard definition games on a 27" CRT TV. A good CRT is the only way I would recommend playing old consoles, as LCD's almost always introduce noticeable input lag (and the picture usually looks shit too, IMO).
The MAME HLSL filter does this. You can adjust pretty much everything, including phosphor life.
I linked it to you in that thread about 16-bit games but I dunno if you saw it.
e: here
Quality post.
You're actually right. An emulator "tailored for a specific game" is just a nice sounding way of saying that your emulator is a fucking mess and you need all kinds of game-specific patches and hacks to make a game work on it, which usually breaks compatibility with other games.
Maybe they're doing it for the speed (hacks are much faster than accurately emulating old hardware), maybe they're doing it for cost (as it's hard to accurately emulate old hardware through software alone), but your statement is correct.
Everybody should read this BSNes story , which is not as complete as some others, but I can't be bothered to look for them. It's eye opening.
That's because you're only presented with working builds and compatible software to specific games. When content is all curated, you'll always be content with what is presented. However, if the content you specifically want is not supported, it won't be released.
BSNes is 100% compatible with everything. Every single SNes software works on it, perfectly, even the extra chips. It's the only emulator that's like that and you need a faster-than-usual computer to use it. It probably wouldn't run smoothly on a Nintendo Wii. Now, if you want to play Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, you don't really need the most accurate emulator in the universe. As long as the emulator you're using plays that, it's good for you.
Different approaches for different problems.