AndresON777
shooting blanks
not to sound like a JT but what player in the world wouldn't want to play for Barca?
I can think of only Casillas really.
Football Thread 2012/13 |OT3| Two-sided triangles
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not to sound like a JT but what player in the world wouldn't want to play for Barca?
I can think of only Casillas really.
Paul Pogba
Carragher
I can't think of anyone. Well, maybe a few French players trying to break into the national team squad.
Gareth Bale
Member
Raul
Jean Louis Akpa Akpro
He's happy at Fleetwood AFAIK
Raheem hits it, plans to quit it, but gets it pregnant. His sperm's quicker than his feet, and unlike in real life he doesn't hit the posts.
Broder Salsa
Banned
That's more like how I wouldn't want to go and participate in a gangbang movie with Kayden Kross, not because I don't want to get in there cause I truly do fantasize about it, but just don't want to get embarrassed and end up on efukt. It would be like when Gravesen went to Real and it seemed more like a cruel joke so everyone could laugh at him on tv.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Sell us Luis Suarez as goalkeeper.
What about Bayern players? Two seasons straight of Borussia winning it, and none of the star players left.
You serious bro? You don't remember Demichelis leaving just as it looked like Dortmund were about to take over? You don't remember Breno burning down his house just because he was scared of the Borussia train?
Broder Salsa
Banned
Altıntop, Olic and Niels Petersen?
Couldn't you apply this statement to almost any club worldwide?
to avoid confusion no i am not arsenal trolling. I mean if any player at most clubs worldwide were targetted by Barca
They were just waiting for Javi Martinez's vision, is all.
I don't know because I don't follow Bayern closely enough to have an idea.
Which is the point, kind of. My biggest problem is that we're so eager and willing to put ourselves in the mind of all these players and claim to know how they think.
I'll gladly throw my hands up and admit I'm wrong if Dagger moves to another PL club or Carragher got his dream move to Real Madrid. But I sill wouldn't feel comfortable making claims that most or all footballers are mercaneries.
near
Gold Member
I don't think it's fair that you'd equate Sir Alex Ferguson's knowledge on the matter to 'a bunch of chimps who would write anything to get website clicks and paper sales'. If you look at the case at hand - Hazard was a target for Utd, they was willing to negotiate. In the statement Sir Alex made, it was in the context of what he finds acceptable value and in no case indicated that he was bitter - he even went as far as to recall Nasri as a target and compared the matter. He's word is evidential because he is within the industry and has knowledge of the financial requirements at hand.
He's quote is not being used as a factual statement, but its definitely a statement which perhaps gives us an insight at the financial aspect of the transfer. Neglecting weather Utd or City could or couldn't afford to match the asking price of the agent, the speculative value is still high.
You're not going to get an official number because no agent is going to reveal he's income to you or the press. So you're not in a position to request that as evidence at all. What you have in this argument are statements made and prior knowledge of cases where agents extort clubs - Kia Joorabchian and Pinhas come to mind- and how we decide on this argument is using 'logic'. Sir Alex said £6m, has Chelsea or any Hazard representative denied he's statement and brushed it off as rubbish? No. So from this we can deduct it as good speculation and leave it at that.
Obviously Bayern didn't win, but it's not like they're doing that badly. CL Final, 2nd in the league etc. Not quite the success they're used to, but still, they're at one of the top clubs in Europe. I find players like Le Tissier more impressive in that respect.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Specific evidence, is, you know, the best type of evidence. Sure Ferguson's talk is evidence, but I'm not going to put my house on it being true.
I'm not familiar with how this information on agent fees works, so bare with me...
So you're telling me all the FA will produce is a total sum of fee's paid? Okay. So if Chelsea say, paid the £12,000,000 to agents, like in your example, you would be well within your rights to say that £6,000,000 fits in that number comfortably. I agree
But you think that it would be unreasonable for somebody to say that you can't, with any real certainty, say that Hazard's agent fee, as a matter of fact, must then of been £6,000,000? Just because £6,000,000 fits in there comfortably doesn't mean anything. And that is a matter of fact. When you mentioned these FA number earlier, I assumed that they explicitly stated, who got how much.
See, you're painting it as if I'm making of the numbers what I want to. But that's not the case, I'm making nothing of the numbers because I can't say. You however are making something of the numbers that you can't be certain about because it suits what you want to say.
I can't remember if the fee was confirmed, I'm sure it's on the site.
I'm not equating the two. I'm saying that they are the only a few sources. And one of those sources is the chimps.
I associate few negative connotations with the word 'mercenary'. Players have their careers to think of, after all. In a way, I prefer that this is the case, that players are not perpetuating the tribalism that so pervades football and is often held up as a virtue. Football is just a game which provides a lot of jobs and involves a lot of money, no need to complicate things too much.
What I can't stand though is when players refuse to fulfill their contractual obligations to angle for a move or when they pander to the fans.
José Mourinho
cocknose
To touch on the rest of this. Logic was brought in to the equation by our good friend Gareth Bale.
Because I can't get confirmed numbers I therefore can't expect it as evidence is a fair point. But that doesn't mean that people can treat speculative paper talk and a brief comment by Ferguson as the definitive proof. That may be the best evidence at hand, but that doesn't make it correct. My point standing, that we don't know.
Secondly, the assumption that Chelsea didn't deny the the 6 mil means exactly what? You think the club go round denying ever bit of spoken or printed word made against them?
Bayern vs. Stuttgart. So good.
near
Gold Member
I agree that it doesn't make it correct or definitive proof and I wouldn't argue a case like that either. But in a list of reasons as to why Hazard 'perhaps' moved to Chelsea ahead of City and Utd, it holds up pretty well.
You wanted evidence I presented the nearest evidence to which Sir Alex's statement hasn't been found guilty of lies. What is you're argument against the statement released by Sir Alex? Do you disagree with him? Would you like to tell us why you do? Perhaps you have more insight than he does? That is why I presented it with the argument that Chelsea haven't denied it.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Ronaldo was upset and sad, because it's his father death anniversary.
Love the press and fanboyism in this case, as always.
http://www.geni.com/people/José-Dinis-Aveiro/6000000009772733733
Love the press and fanboyism in this case, as always.
http://www.geni.com/people/José-Dinis-Aveiro/6000000009772733733
Gareth Bale
Member
Why did you have to go in that direction? When I said:
"Yeah, there's no way United would have paid £6 million on top of the £32 million to sign Hazard".
I was focusing on United, not Chelsea. I'm saying United wouldn't have paid the £6 million in agent fees on top of the £32 million. I know you're not going to believe me, but if I had continued that post the next few lines would have been me trying to explain why United wouldn't pay that amount. I'm not being critical of Chelsea. I'm not painting anything. I don't even paint any more. I scraped a B in GCSE Art. I can't paint for shit.
But this meta-discussion is pointless any way. The moment I say something vaguely related to Chelsea you jump on it.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Last friday was Falcao's grandfather's 1 year death anniversary too. Not sure which relative but it was one of them because he dedicated the goals to him.
near
Gold Member
The only other game I found interesting today was Lille vs. PSG. PSG have had 3 draws out of 3 games, today they sealed the first win after spending £125+ million. Lolz.
Nice treat was that Ibrahimovic sealed a goal within 26 seconds of kick off.
http://youtu.be/aHVTuzTPDVk
José Mourinho
cocknose
I never said that Ferguson is definitely wrong. I simply mentioned that he has been known to talk some shite. I also mentioned that the figure of 6 mil assumes all three teams had the exact same deal on the table. I went as for as saying because United were asked for 6 doesn't mean everybody was. In fact, we could of been asked for more, which often happens to big money spenders.
My gripe, at the root of this, which is something I moan about a lot. Is when people discus footballs financial matters as a matter of fact. When we all know that these are kept very much under wraps. But particularly when it comes to teams like City and Chelsea, folks love to quote speculative figures to vilify their spending. Or excuse their teams lose of a player to the big evil teams with the money. They then quote figures that they know, at best, are guess work.
Now maybe sometimes their right, and sometimes wrong. But it's the quoting of figures that can't be backed up with any real substance that bothers me. But it bothers me more, when it's pretty much presented as fact, and the people who accept that they have no way of knowing what money went where are expected to prove otherwise.
I don't care if Hazard's agent got 6 mil or 20. It's not that I take exception to the idea that we would pay so much. I take exception to guess work presented as fact.
Yet another reminder that I need to get that channel. Blast.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Yeah the best part about Be In sport getting the rights to la liga and serie a is that now I get all the good bundesliga matches on Goltv.
I'm going to project my taste on you and presume you wanted Liverpool and Southampton to win. And this makes you cool
near
Gold Member
Okay, I was under the impression you was arguing that the speculative fee was less than speculation and should not be taken into account in any case - so that matter is now dropped.
I agree that in most arguments figures that can't be backed up shouldn't necessarily be used as a structure of an argument, however if it's the only angle to observe and conclude a discussion it shouldn't be opposed to that extent. But I hear what your saying.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Anyone actually knows the actual quote? give the man a break
José Mourinho
cocknose
I went in that direction because when this conversation kicked off, between me and another poster. It was said that Ferguson claimed he dropped the Hazard pursuit because of costs.
It was reported (make of that what you will) that all three clubs had met the asking price etc and it was now down to Hazard to choose where he went. Hazard then supposedly chooses Chelsea.
Then after the fact, Ferguson comes out and says, oh we wouldn't pay that money. The other poster was saying that Hazard didn't come to United because they wouldn't pay. But my view of the situation all along was that United were willing to pay, and that Ferguson's comments were purely made as an excuse. As if to cushion the blow.
The over all ark to this conversation being, United get players who want to play for them. We just get the players who can be bought.
My point to him was he's naive if he thinks everybody goes to United out of respect etc.
Then we got in to the specifics of the supposed 6 mil, which myself and others explained our stance on.
Because the majority of your Chelsea talk is the typical anti-Chelsea rubbish expected from a Spurs fan. We had this chat before, I don't mind that Spurs fans hate Chelsea, I hate Spurs and make no bones about it. But the last time we talked about this, you tried to play your anti-Chelsea muck off as a genuine critique and not just some guff a rival fan spouts. I prefer when we're upfront and acknowledge we're talking crap about teams we don't like instead of pretending it's something it's not.
Pretty much. I don't know if the agent got 50p or 10,000,000. So I personally don't like to assume any particular value, let alone use a particular value to back up a claim I may want to make, knowing there is little substance.
Edit: Night night all.
Well, I did not really care about Liverpool vs Arsenal beyond the fact that I think that Giroud is <3-looking and Suarez is a strange, rat-like creature whom I later learned I actually had legitimate reasons for disliking besides his face.
But yes, I did want Southampton to win.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
OMG
José Mourinho
cocknose
Dear Mr Mumei. Being a moderator of considerable power and wisdom. Would it be possible for you to do a footy GAFer a solid and remove the Hyphen from his tag? I know tag requests aren't the done thing, but it really annoys me :lol. "cocknose"would be much preferable to "cock-nose".
Lollerpool
'The fact that Rodgers was then talking about the possibility of Carroll returning to Liverpool in January almost before he has unpacked his suitcase in London underscores how flawed those final hours were and how frustrated manager and supporters have been left'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2012/09/arsenal_defeat_adds_to_off_fie.html
Really?
Also could Liverpool not recall Caroll? Or did Rodgers forget to learn how to do that via FM ?
'The fact that Rodgers was then talking about the possibility of Carroll returning to Liverpool in January almost before he has unpacked his suitcase in London underscores how flawed those final hours were and how frustrated manager and supporters have been left'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2012/09/arsenal_defeat_adds_to_off_fie.html
Really?
Also could Liverpool not recall Caroll? Or did Rodgers forget to learn how to do that via FM ?
KidA Seven
Member
FootballFan
Member
Show me Adriano under performing on a consistent basis first
. I can't remember another game where he was bad other than his debut and that 2nd leg against Madrid. Also I agree with you, as I said a good squad player, definitely good enough for this team.Cesc on the other hand, I am unsure of. Yeah he scores/assists yada yada yada. But his general play is so bad, Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta make his play look like he is Charlie Adam in comparison. It's so frustrating seeing how even Thiago is better suited for Barca. I have yet to see anything to suggest he can replace Xavi, maybe in his dreams. Maybe.
KidA Seven
Member
I thought he played well. His only mistake was the header. He didn't lose the ball, passed well, had great control, and almost scored.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
logan tom mmmmmm
Sviatoslav
Member
Anzhi finally made their big transfer window splash!!! They got
for
60 million.
Burmistrov
0.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
did dzagoev move to a different club? that kid looked great at the euros.
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