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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's for actual situations and gunfights, not range training, but nice try.

I think actual situations are kind of what counts.

Babies come from unprotected sex, not marriage.

One is state sanctioned the other is not.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Adding guns to an environment rife with alcohol and sexual abuse? What could go wrong?

 

[Enron]

I'm sorry, but what is the source on this? Because it sounds like straight bullshit.

It's not what you think - it's not cops shooting at a fixed target - its incident data. In other words, the targets are moving.

The first time i heard this in another thread i couldn't believe it either until I saw it wasn't ratios at the gun range.

I think actual situations are kind of what counts.

I seriously doubt John Q Public would be any better, though.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Adding guns to an environment rife with alcohol and sexual abuse? What could go wrong?

I don't know what classes you took...."but count me out"*





*paraphrased from a great Simpsons quote.

 

[Link]

I think actual situations are kind of what counts.

So where are the stats for regular citizens with concealed carry licenses? Since that's what you're trying to prove.

 

[snap0212]

One is state sanctioned the other is not.

Do you think it's unfair that a guy cannot marry his brother. That some girl cannot marry her sister or some girl cannot marry her brother.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I think actual situations are kind of what counts.

So give us rates of carriers to substantiate your claim that they are better than officers with guns.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So where are the stats for regular citizens with concealed carry licenses? Since that's what you're trying to prove.

My point is trying to demonstrate that people thinking it's fine with cops having guns being around them being safer due to practice and/or training is a fallacy.

Do you think it's unfair that a guy cannot marry his brother. Some girl marry her sister or some girl marry her brother.

Do you?

 

[spiderman123]

This is Ammmuerica.

 

[SteveWinwood]

My point is trying to demonstrate that people thinking it's fine with cops having guns being around them being safer due to practice and/or training is a fallacy.

We have no data to compare this to. Those rates could be awesome compared to the average person showing that they do work.

 

[snap0212]

Do you?

I wasn't the one who said : "Laws shouldn't be passed to prohibit acts that do no cause overall harm to society". But once you answer me I'll give you a full explaination of my answer.

 

[Link]

My point is trying to demonstrate that people thinking it's fine with cops having guns being around them being safer due to practice and/or training is a fallacy.

Ah, so you're just pulling assumptions out your ass to back up your flawed argument. Got it.

 

[Danne-Danger]

My point is trying to demonstrate that people thinking it's fine with cops having guns being around them being safer due to practice and/or training is a fallacy.

Then I would like to inform you that you are failing pretty hard.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

We have no data to compare this to. Those rates could be awesome compared to the average person showing that they do work.

I agree, but at the very least it shows the assumptions people have about police firearm skills is mistaken.

Ah, so you're just pulling assumptions out your ass to back up your flawed argument. Got it.

You mean by supplying data...sure.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I wasn't the one who said : "Laws shouldn't be passed to prohibit acts that do no cause overall harm to society". But once you answer me I'll give you a full explaination of my answer.

And I said with state sanctioned incest or allowing of procreation between the two there is.

 

[snap0212]

And I said with state sanctioned incest or allowing of procreation between the two there is.

I'm still asking for your own personal view on the matter.

 

[Danne-Danger]

I agree, but at the very least it shows the assumptions people have about police firearm skills is mistaken.

Though in order to prove the point you're trying to make you need the data for the other side as well, data which one would assume would disprove your argument.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm still asking for your own personal view on the matter.

Seeing as there is an overall harm, yes. Now what is your view?

Though in order to prove the point you're trying to make you need the data for the other side as well, data which one would assume would disprove your argument.

Except the numbers are so low on the other side it's enough for concern.

 

[Link]

You mean by supplying data...sure.

Data with nothing to compare it to, which was the crux of your argument.

 

[snap0212]

Seeing as there is an overall harm, yes. Now what is your view?

What's the overall harm to society? I honestly can't see it at all.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Does anyone think it's a good idea for kids whose minds are still developing to carry guns into college classrooms? I am pro-gun, and I sure as fuck don't.

After looking into it, you have to be 21 to get the CCW permit in Colorado, or 18 with whatever qualifies you for their temporary emergency permit (not sure what that bit means), so the silver lining here is that Freshmen/Sophomores won't be bringing their guns to the latest pledge hazing at the next Kappa Sig kegger.

I only pray that the University doesn't half-ass this, and implement places on campus where guns are simply off-limits (not unlike courtrooms) and provides access to secure gun lockers so that folks don't get their shit stolen when they go for a swim.

 

[Kinyou]

Demonstrable harm in the offspring.

I think that's always a funny argument. Because no one forbids people with genetic disorders to procreate.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Data with nothing to compare it to, which was the crux of your argument.

Except there is.

What's the overall harm to society.

Fom a historical example

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/habsburg/habsburg-jaw.htm

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I only pray that the University doesn't half-ass this, and implement places on campus where guns are simply off-limits (not unlike courtrooms)* and provides access to secure gun lockers so that folks don't get their shit stolen when they go for a swim**.

That seems perfectly reasonable.

*Assuming like in a court armed security is there and access controlled.
**A very good idea.

 

[snap0212]

Fom a historical example

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/habsburg/habsburg-jaw.htm

We've had this already: I'm talking about marriage. The thing some people do when they love eachother, to have better chances to adopt a child or to save on taxes, for example.

 

[Link]

Except there is.

Great, where is it? I'm eager to see the accuracy of the standard citizen with a concealed carry in a gunfight.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It's sad that people apparently feel so unsafe in America that they feel they need guns to protect themselves. I can't imagine living under such constant terror, to be so fearful every time you step outside that you need a firearm. It's a shame the US government is apparently failing at its core task of guaranteeing the safety of its citizens, but I suppose when that's the case, you need to take matters into your own hands.

I'm not sure how carrying a gun proves "constant terror" but I guess it's more fun to jump to conclusions.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

We've had this already: I'm talking about marriage. The thing some people do when they love eachother, to have better chances to adopt a child or to save on taxes, for example.

And pass on the Hasburg Jaw...why do you have such a hard on for incest?

 

[SteveWinwood]

And pass on the Hasburg Jaw...why do you have such a hard on for incest?

Good to know you don't have to have kids to pass things on nowadays.

And so you don't have data for carriers? Rendering your other data pretty worthless when trying to compare things.

 

[snap0212]

And pass on the Hasburg Jaw...why do you have such a hard on for incest?

I'm still talking about marriage, not about having babies. I also mentioned gay marriage between siblings. Would that be okay for you? I've written down my answers to all your questions already. I just want your answer first as I've been asking the same questions the whole time.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Good to know you don't have to have kids to pass things on nowadays.

I have an 8 month old daughter...and I would advise you choose following words with that in mind.

And so you don't have data for carriers? Rendering your other data pretty worthless when trying to compare things.

Not regarding police officer efficiency.

 

[Guevara]

I only pray that the University doesn't half-ass this, and implement places on campus where guns are simply off-limits (not unlike courtrooms) and provides access to secure gun lockers so that folks don't get their shit stolen when they go for a swim.

This is a hilarious thought: "going to the pool, better bring my gun".

But what if you're forced to defend yourself while you're swimming? :O

Can you at least strap a combat knife to your leg?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Are we really comparing concealed gun law to incest? What the hell?

 

[Huff]

I've gotten multiple text alerts this year about people with guns on or around campus, bomb threats, etc. And now at my offsite campus, I am not in a great part of town. I also remember multiple rapes that took place last year.

Will more people with guns help? I dunno, but college campuses arn't exactly the most secure place

 

[SteveWinwood]

I have an 8 month old daughter...and I would advise you choose following words with that in mind.

I don't know what you think I was implying. He specifically used adoption as an example and you said it shouldn't be allowed because they could pass on a genetic disease. That is literally impossible.

And you don't have data for carriers?

 

[Kinyou]

Are we really comparing concealed gun law to incest? What the hell?

It started with this:

Someones sensibilities being offended is a pretty weak reason to ban something when there is no demonstrably overall harm to society.

You can apply the exact same logic to marriage between siblings.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Does anyone think it's a good idea for kids whose minds are still developing to carry guns into college classrooms? I am pro-gun, and I sure as fuck don't.

Last time I checked, being 18 meant you're an adult.

Planes? Federal Buildings? etc etc?

Planes and Federal Buildings are the same as a Campus how? Last time I checked a campus won't lose air pressure and crash into the ground if a shot goes through a window. I understand you want an exception but I say fuck it. I wanna see what happens. If there are shooting at every frat party then I'll concede to your point. But if life goes on with nary a peep....

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It started with this:

You can apply the exact same logic to marriage between siblings.

That's still a huge stretch if you're trying to say he's completely contradictory by not wanting incest but thinking guns are ok. There are also plenty of other things that aren't banned that should be if you want guns and stuff banned also based on the other person's logic. It's a stretch no matter how you want to put it.

 

[Messypandas]

This is a hilarious thought: "going to the pool, better bring my gun".

But what if you're forced to defend yourself while you're swimming? :O

Can you at least strap a combat knife to your leg?

Kids should be allowed harpoons in the pool. Because freedom

 

[snap0212]

That's still a huge stretch if you're trying to say he's completely contradictory by not wanting incest but thinking guns are ok. There are also plenty of other things that aren't banned that should be if you want guns and stuff banned also based on the other person's logic. It's a stretch no matter how you want to put it.

Please point me to the part where I was talking about incest. I specifically stated that I'm not talking about sex. I did it multiple times.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

This is just about the worst idea ever.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

This is just about the worst idea ever.

If there's an increase in illegal campus shootings because of this. You'll be right.

If not. Then you'd be wrong.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Please point me to the part where I was talking about incest. I specifically stated that I'm not talking about sex. I did it multiple times.

Please tell me how this is really analogous to a topic about allowing concealed guns on a college campus.

 

[SteveWinwood]

If there's an increase in illegal campus shootings because of this. You'll be right.

If not. Then you'd be wrong.

Should we have to wait for innocent people to die first?

Please tell me how this is really analogous to a topic about allowing concealed guns on a college campus.

It has to do with Manos' overall philosophy for allowing it. Because it seems to be why the fuck not, can't hurt!

 

[Skiesofwonder]

I love that the TC proved the exact opposite of what he was trying to prove. :lol

 

[Messypandas]

If there's an increase in illegal campus shootings because of this. You'll be right.

If not. Then you'd be wrong.

is there legal campus shootings? Or is my sarcasm detector off

 

[snap0212]

Please tell me how this is really analogous to a topic about allowing concealed guns on a college campus.

When Manos: The Hans of Fate says that “Someones sensibilities being offended is a pretty weak reason to ban something when there is no demonstrably overall harm to society” then he should have the same view about marriage between siblings.

If he thinks that there needs to be “demonstrably overall harm to society” in order to ban something or prohibit people from doing something then his “rule for banning things” should be applied to all topics and not just the one topic he's in favor of. He knew exactly what I was trying to prove and changed the subject every single time to avoid actually answering my question.

I chose marriage between siblings because it's a topic that most people don't seem to be in favor of even though there's no provable harm done to anyone. I deliberately left out the risks for the well-being of biological child when I mentioned that I can also change the question to gay siblings. I mentioned reasons for marriage (adopting a child, less taxes) to make sure he knows that I'm not talking about having biological children.

If you go back to the first page (100 post per page) then you'll find the start of the whole discussion where I pointed out that the research he quoted [“"We conclude that Lott and Mustard have made an important scholarly contribution in establishing that these laws have not led to the massive bloodbath of death and injury that some of their opponents feared.”] also said that "On the other hand, we find that the statistical evidence that these laws have reduced crime is limited, sporadic, and extraordinarily fragile.". I replied: “If it doesn't factually make the world a safer place then what's the point? When it makes people feel uneasy and there's no improvement in safety then maybe you shouldn't do it for the sake of the other people.”

Then the whole thing about you shouldn't ban things because someone's “sensibilities [are] being offended”.

 

[Stet]

is there legal campus shootings? Or is my sarcasm detector off

legal campus shooters are filled with vodka and redbull

 

[SteveWinwood]

legal campus shooters are filled with vodka and redbull

Change it to everclear and mountain dew and lets do this shit.

 

[Kabouter]

I'm not sure how carrying a gun proves "constant terror" but I guess it's more fun to jump to conclusions.

I figure if you feel you require a gun everywhere you go, including the university campus, you're perhaps not constantly, but certainly frequently very afraid that something might happen to you, otherwise no one would feel such an urgent need to carry a gun that they would seek legal action to obtain the right. Like I said, if things where you live are that unsafe because the state has completely failed in one of its primary tasks, then I absolutely support people who want to carry a gun. It only makes sense.